01dek into 97 auto. Reused stock sensors. When we put the key into the ignition and try to start it, nothing at all happens. All lights come on, but he says that its almost like what happens when you try to start it in a gear (N or D). It doesnt do anything. we thought it was maybe a battery issue so We then tried to hard start it by running a wire from the positive terminal straight to the solenoid. We get a healthy crank but no fire. Fuel is present. (we can smell that). We pulled a few coils, and they are NOT sparking. So thats the issue.

Few notes to mention: not all sensors are plugged up yet. We were almost done (maybe an hour plus tweaking) but then decided to see if it will crank before we put the finishing touches. The sensors that are NOT connected are those such as EGR solenoid, EVAP sensors, MAp sensor, etc. Basically some of the sensors in that viscinity. Probably a good 4 or 5. So i figured it should still start without those sensors but i could be wrong. VAcuum lines are not hooked up yet either (many sensors are not even there yet) so i shouldnt have any vacuum leaks anyways.

Last note, my friend picked the craziest few days to try an engine swap and it did drizzle on us a few times. We were under a small tent, but the engine harness was exposed to some rain water. Im sure anything is possible, but i assume that since the car cranks, injectors spray, lights turn on, etc, that there is no damage to the harness. Atleast i hope its not some bull like that.

 

ECU maybe?....go over everything and hook up all the sensors and vacuum lines. Did you hook up the crank and cam sensors?

 

What codes are you getting?

What did you swap from the VQ30 to the DE-K? Swap the flexplate or crank pulley at all?

Did you clean up the mating surface between the block and bellhousing, btw? Very good idea if you're dropping a trans on these cars.

First thing I'd do is make sure both CKPS' and the CPS are all hooked up.

 

we swapped over the accessories, all sensors, we did swap the flexplate, but we didnt touch the pulley. anything there that couldve gone wrong with the flexplate? is there a certain way it has to be positioned? cuz i know the 5 speed flywheel will pretty much only line up one way, but the flexplate was somewhat different, and looking at the de-k flexplate and the de flexplate side by side didnt really give me any indication that there was a certain way to position it. and the sensors are hooked up. we havent checked for any codes yet, we couldnt get it started then we just kinda gave up for the night. but well try pulling them

 

Well on the VQ30, you can mount the flexplate/flywheel any which way you want (and they're identical, DE to DE-K), it's not an indexed timing ring like the VQ35. If it was damaged or bent up at all, it could easily cause a starting issue like this.

Check the codes, clean up the CKPS'/CPS if they have any metal shavings on them, but the codes will help the most, more than likely.

 

i agree with pmohr on the ckps but i will add acouple of more things to check if that doesnt pan out.

Check the eccs relay underneath the hood

did you reconnect the ground that use to wire up to the old usim iirc it hooks up to the lower manifold. and it had two grounds right next to each other

does your cel light come on when just in the on postion? if not its something with your ecu

 

I was helping last night and from what I seen all grounds were connected, and sensors from original DE were used. The car ran fine when original DE was pulled and would start by the key. Now as stated when the car is in P position it will not engage the starter when turned to start position.

 

Check the P / N switch, sounds like your culperate. As for it cranking and not starting, be certain the Gnds for the injectors are good to go. I agree with Paul, pull the codes (I bet you have at least one) and go from there. You can pull the starter and using a dowl rod, measuer to see if the flywheel is warped. PITA, but can be done. It's not a fun thing to do, but you can do it. Just use the crank pulley to turn the engine over.

Other than that ... the codes will likely help the most.

 

ok, just got home from fooling with it for a bit. we finally got the ignition working, i believe one of the terminals on the starter solenoid was loose, not the positive cable but the other one. So now it turns over with the key. I guess the ground i have for the injectors is ok because we smell fuel, and the plugs are covered in fuel which tells me theyre spraying. We were having trouble getting spark. We swapped coils, plugs, etc. The ONLY way we were finally able to get a spark was to put jumper cables on the battery. Then the engine would turn over faster and actually puff out smoke and we finally got spark. Without the jump i guess the battery doesnt have enough juice to turn the engine over quick enough?? i didnt know that could happen, i learned something there. So we now have fuel and spark, but i dont know whats up with this battery situation. I swapped my good battery into the car and it didnt spark either. So im not sure why we cant seem to get enough power. So somethings up as far as that goes.

We checked the eccs relay, it was good, checked many fuses that all came out good, rechecked cps and ckps, swapped em out too. The cel comes on with the key so im assuming the ecu is good. Hooked up the rest of the sensors (egr solenoid, etc), but still havent ran vacuum hoses, no vacuum leaks tho. Have NOT checked codes yet, so ill do that tomorrow....i know i know, its just i forgot to grab a scanner when i left work. so thats coming. I feel that we're very close here, but im not sure what went wrong. This is the 5th dek swap ive done in the past 4-5 months, and theyve all cranked right up the first time so this is frustrating.

 

man i really want to say that it really seems like a ground issue if the only way you can get a spark is from jumping it and or one of the 12v connections isnt hooked up. How are the connector going to the posts? is it still the original connectors or have they been cut and redone??

 

Try running a Gnd cable from the bat to the engine block (there are several bolts you can use, just use a terminal on the end of the wire (a "U" terminal) and slip it under the bolt. Can't hurt .... worth a try.

 

k. heres the deal we got the car to crank by the key. I have the same issue as another poster. Number 3 and 6 cyl isn't getting fire from the coils. The car seems to be running on MAYBE two cylinders. Will not rev at all. As long as you cycle the pedal it will run. If you stay steady it dies every time. I told the owner it needs new plugs as his is completely gas fouled. Any other suggestions?

 

ok, just got finished playing with it some more. checked codes...NO CODES. well, o2 sensor but thats it. Im not sure if it just hasnt had time to throw a code tho with the battery being taken in and out a few times. I ran a few tests from the haynes manual to the best of my ability and the ckps' and cps seem to be fine. i had him turn the engine over while i checked the driveplate and it wasnt wobbly or anything. i sanded down the negative cable ground. I brought over one of my brand new spark plugs and still no spark. My biggest thing is i dont understand why we cant turn the engine over quick enough. We can put a brand new battery in it, jump it with another car, AND put a jump box on it and it wont turn over quick enough, like its not turning over fast enough to crank up. And to me it seems that it wont spark unless it turns over fast enough, but im not sure if thats how the system even works. Our next step, which we have begun, is to drop the tranny bc we never sanded it down. And his old engine was nassttyyyy. So maybe its not getting a good ground. its been recommended, but could it really be the cause of no spark, thus no start?

 

are all your injectors grounded

 

You say it doesn't crank fast enough, have you tried a different starter? I'd do that way before dropping the trany! Also, if you removed the CKPS + CPS they can go bad (de-magnatize) if you lay them on something metal. You should be able to test them both or replace them with ones you know are good. Don't go dropping the trans axle just to sand the mating surface. Waste of time IMO. If you have it off already, yea - do it.

As for spark and crank ... no relation. The ECU fires all the injectors at once untill it gets readings from the cam sensor. It also gives juice to all the coils (so it can ignite which ever cylinder it needs to). This whole process usually lasts only a second or two at most - while turning the key to start. Do you have a spark tester? Goes inline with the coil so you can see it's actually getting spark. If you don't have one, it's hard to know for sure - they are cheap and easy to find at most parts stores, get one!

 

ok, new update. THIS IS OFFICIALLY THE DEK SWAP FROM HELL!!

anyways, we tried a different starter (mine)...no luck. We dropped the tranny and sanded down the mating surface. it helped a little. We then made a grounding kit with 2 gauge, and grounded the starter and the tranny, and we were finally able to get some spark. An actual GOOD spark. So it helped a lot. BUT, still no start. So we have fuel, spark, and its trying sooooo hard to start up. Theres something still holding us back but i cant figure it out for the life of me. Ive tested and swapped out the ckps and cps many times. so it cant be that. the next step is the harness. How likely is it that our harness was damaged someway? or that some parts of the harness were damaged and others not? oh yeah, we do have one code that may be of some help. FUEL TEMPERATURE SENSOR?? wtf is that? p0180

 

BUMP
we got it to start a few times today. the only way we could get it started is if i took the ckps by the tranny and moved it around randomly while cranking. but when it ran for that few seconds it sounded HORRIBLE!! i tested the coil packs, and i think they are all ok. I then tested the coil pack connectors and got some values and compared them to my coil connectors. His connectors show no value while mine do, so im assuming the harness is bad. but im not sure, cuz why would the car start?? anyways, next step, which is the last step really, is to swap out the whole harness and ecu to the dek one. how hard is this to do?? will the 01 ecu go right in place of the stock ecu?? only one harness goes into the ecu correct? for some reason i was thinking maybe one came out of each side, but im not certain. anyone?

 

You need to check the alignment of the CKPS POS in relation to the timing ring. It's got to be dead on.

And swapping the engine control harness won't be a simple plug and play. It likely won't plug into the engine room harness nor the dash harness. Even if the connectors did physically fit, the wiring changed up between years of the 4th gen, much less up to the 5th gen.

 

ive never had such a hard time aligning the ckps with the timing ring. everytime ive ever touched it i just bolted it in and it worked. but i guess ur right, because the car would only fire up if i held the sensor in a certain position. the only thing is, i dont think its possible to bolt it down in the position that i had it in. so its gotta be either the timing ring itself, or the tranny is mounted on the engine slightly twisted/off center, etc.

about the harness, are you suggesting just finding another 4th gen harness?

 

For the ckps, have you tried another one? I'd do that and see how it goes. Pmohr is right tho ... you gotta line that sensor up. Maybe you got lucky before, dunno. I'd say if your trans was twisted up, you'd know, come on, if you got this far, it's not by luck! lol

Not sure on the harness, you may need to altar the one you have. How did you get it to work on the other swaps?

 

ive tried 3 different ckps'. i even switched out the ckps harness. as for the other swaps ive done, i just reuse the stock harness with most of the stock sensors and they all crank right up, so something went wrong on this swap. my next guess would be the harness was water damaged somehow. or maybe its just this darn ckps not lining up. well i know that for a fact but the way i have to hold it for the car to start its pretty much impossible to bolt it down that way. the engine and tranny arent really flush up against eachother, meaning the ckps is flat against the engine but not the tranny side. thats where my idea that the tranny was twisted came from.

 

Hi i am the owner of the max for this swap and i was wondering wat problems i could run into when swapping my computer and harness for the dek computer and harness?

 

Did you not read the thread?

http://forums.maxima.org/6970980-post18.html

 

yea i did but i have the harness and the computer from the 5th gen and i was wonderin wat other problems i would have... your answer wasn really dat specific

 

Problems plugging everything in isn't enough?

How about not being able to start the car anyway, because of the immobilizer?

 

hmmm didn think about that.... well im at a loss becuz we have tried EVERYTHING....even sanded the space between the engine and transmission for better grounding and re-aligned the tranny....im going to have to get another harness i guess??maybe? any way to bypass the immobilizer?

 

No way to bypass the immobilizer. Assuming you're looking past the electrical incompatibilities of the DE-K engine control harness in an A32 chassis, you'd also have to mount up the NATS reader around the ignition switch, as well as the wiring all the way to the ECU.

The trans can't really be 'twisted' any appreciable amount when it's bolted down and in place. Even so, the only direction it could be rotated would still keep the CKPS POS in line with the timing ring.

Are you sure the timing ring wasn't damaged at all?

Are you still having the slow cranking problem?

 

i visually inspected the timing ring through the ckps hole and didnt see anything wrong, its spun pretty straight as well, maybe a tiny tiny tiny wobble at one point, possible when we bolted it down maybe warped slightly?? thats gonna be the next step, maybe dropping the tranny and using the other timing ring/driveplate.

 

hello malp need your help I did the 3.5l swap not getting any spark? crank and get fuel no spark.

 

Diagnosing your issue is going to completely hijack MaximaSpd85's thread.

Post in the newbie thread.

 

http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...e-posting.html


There ... I even posted the link for you. You need to read the rules when you sign up, can't just go posting like that mate.

Why do you think the harness is bad? You can test it very easy to see. Just ohm it out from end to end (not sayin it'll be fun, but it can be done) and see what is what. I don't think everything is 'as it seems' here to be honest. I agree with Pmohr that the trans can't be 'twisted'. If you have a gap there that tells you something is not aligned propperly. You say you did this swap the same way as the others? You sure this DE-K ran when it was pulled?

IIWM, I'd start over ....

Check for spark - on all 6
Check for fuel - on all 6
Check all sensors are hooked up and in the right locations
Check for any codes (ghost or otherwise)
Check compression - if still no start


Not sure what to tell ya mate .... this is a hummdinger for sure. Are you still having the slow cranking issue? ???

 

well, the owner of the car decided to start the swap on a horrible day when it was raining, we were under a tent, so we stayed out of the rain, but the harness was exposed to slight moisture. so at first we figured it may be messed up, but i dont see why the engine *would* run if the harness was messed up, and it did run for a brief while. and no, we are not certain that the engine ran when it was pulled, we got it from a salvage yard. but it does have a warranty so it may come down to that.

today we dropped the tranny again, swapped out the drive plate, and still the same problem, so we ruled out that whole twisted tranny thing, and theres no way i could have misaligned the ckps this many times in a row. So we've pretty much ruled out alot here....so we give up. We have been defeated. Sad day for us. I dont get it, i dont understand where things went wrong. Ive done this swap many times, and it cranked up every time. This time just didnt work that way for some reason. *sigh* the car is getting towed to his trusty mechanic shop "Los Compadres" who figure out everything, lol. I personally am hoping its the engine with no compression or something that way i dont feel as bad if it something pretty simple that we messed up.

 

BUMP.... i know youve all helped as best as you can, but i need something from someone that we havent thought of, lol. Na, seriously, the mechanics couldnt even figure it out. They cant get spark either! So ANY more ideas from you guys?

Recap:
We GET fuel
We have GOOD compression
ALL sensors hooked up, some swapped out MULTIPLE times
CEL comes on with key (ECU good?)

Next step, were gonna check the crank pulley marks. After that, we're gonna try another ecu anyways. After that, its new harness, then new engine.....Then we'll have a brand new damn car!

 

Are you getting any more codes now?

Try shaking the engine harness where it goes by the right strut tower while cranking, see if it changes at all.

You mean the timing teeth on the crank pulley? With the key in place, there's no way to mount the crank pulley incorrectly. Easy way to check without having to pull the thing off is to set it to TDC by the crank pulley, then see if the piston on cylinder 1 is at TDC.

The chances of all three being bad are extremely slim, but check continuity from both CKPS' and the CPS back to the ECU.

If all of that is good, then another ECU would be good as a quick check.

 

I'm probably out of my league here, but are you getting good voltage at the starter? Maybe the resistance in the positive battery cable is high?

 

hey, its me again. i failed to mention something interesting that occurred after the swap(3 weeks ago). we were able to get it started maybe 4 or 5 times in a row when it was on jacks. we got excited and said ok, lets put it together. when we put the car back on the ground, it would never crank again. is there a clue in that? or just coincidence?

 

Wait, I thought you said it does crank now...

And what exactly did you do between having it running, and putting it down on the ground?

 

lol, alright let me recap. cuz i know its been confusing. we finished the swap. it just cranked. we did somehow get it to crank, but by me holding the crank sensor at a weird angle. so we swapped out the driveplate. it did the same thing. we then checked compression and in the process found that cylinder 3 didnt even have a plug in it (dont ask me, lol. i didnt install them). so we put a plug in it, and it cranked up. it ran rough. at this point the car is still on jacks. it cranked many times in a row so we said ok, we got it! we put the passenger axle back in, we put the ypipe back on, and we put the wheels back on. and we dropped the car back on the ground. it never cranked up again.

 

Was this ever resolved? Spd85 stopped the updates so was the car fixed by the magical mechanics or what?

 

oh sorry, turned out that the grounds were not properly placed. i thought that the valve cover was a grounding point, but it wasnt. stupid me, cars run like a champ now