Alright, I've done enough secret ninja studying, time to start asking questions....

An interesting trend I've noticed is that the 07-8 Alti motors are falling in my price range.

Of course this is going in my 4th gen and I will be running 3.0 static cam timing.

Questions:
I've read a post or two about people doing it, but no results, I would like to know what the people who have done this what are their thoughts on it? what are the specs of their set ups?
I know this is a long shot, but I have to ask anyways, any dynos? Or hell does anyone know of anyone with a 07-08 alti swap and static timing? Maybe we can get together and get it on the dyno?

How to attain a flatter TQ line towards the red line? See post #35....

The heads:
-Do they flow better, like the 7th gen maximas? Yes! (Not proven yet)
-Why are the intake and exhaust valves smaller? The intake has been redesigned, straighter piping allow for a higher velocity! The valvetrain maybe even lighter also, since the stems are longer?
--Could there be a potential benefit from oversizing them back to the old VQ35 valve sizes? Still not answered
-Would they also need upgraded Valve springs and shims to go above 7200rpm? Not going to find out anymore.

Internals:
-Are they better? I planned on doing ARP rod bolts and main studs, along with HR head bolts on my original plans, but would this be needed? Could be because of the CVT forcing the motor to hold high rpms much more than before. I plan on finding out the hard and expensive way. I really don't have a plan for spray, but I know it's possible because of the way I am and who I hang around with.

Why does the 7th gen Max have a higher CR? Differences in the crank allows this.
I'm guessing that the 7th gen maximas have different pistons because they get 10.6:1 instead of 10.3:1, according to the FSM the altima has the same specs as the 7th gen but the 7th gen still pulls more CR.

My main interest with the Altima 3.5's are the heads and the IM of course, I figure it would be more of a bang for my buck than your typical 02-06 VQ35s....

 

Like I thought, this would be a stretch... Time to go find some altima dynos....

F' me in the A', those Altimas are dynoing some high HP... but they're DE-K like, not enough torque'z......

Stay tuned folks.....

 

Coming to the darkside? lol

 

What can I say, I <3 TQ, silly 3.0's don't have enough...

 

Sounds like the typical HR. Link to dynos?

 

07+ Altima v6:

HR style heads
Smaller version of 09max im
pistons/rings are upgraded from previous vq35's

 

LIES! Take it back!!!

 

Nissanclub 4th gen Altima section
Anyhing about the bottom end? They go to 7krpm stock
Who gave you permission to post in mah thread?!

 

Your mom. She said, "Aaron is talkin nonsense." I told her I'd set you straight.

 

 

^Stock?

 

Lies! She doesn't call me aaron when I need setting straight!

Looks like just an air intake, even short rams gain some power, that's what's I've been seeing over there.

But if you're referring to the blue line, that's what i've been seeing for stock dyno's

 

I do not know if these posed a problem or not I need to re-read suratt's threads, but the Altima and Maxima current gen VQ's have the same connectors for Coil Packs and Injectors, is there really anything else I need to take into account?

(keep in mind I will be putting 3.0L timing/electronics on the alti motor)

 

When I did my swap, the coil connectors were the same but not the injector connectors. You are going to have to use the VQ35 injectors and splice in the VQ35 connectors to the VQ30 harness. Um, if possible use the VQ30 upper oil pan so you won't have to drill a slot for the crank position sensor. Why rev to 7.2k unless your going with aftermarket cams, because you won't be making that much power up top with stock cams. But If you rev to 7.2k, go with HR valve springs and shims, no need to double shim, although Im sure everyone on here will tell you to. They are a cheap alternative to JWT, Brian Crower. Just my .02

 

Have you seen 07+ Altima VQ35 dynos? They look like DE-K dynos if you take away the #'s.

I'd only get cams cause just like the DE-K's the torque falls off.

Also, I haven't seen an Altima dyno with a full exhaust and a tune either, maybe the TQ will hold up better w/ my 3".

 

Just wondering why you are going to run 3.0 timing? Why arent there more 3.5 ecu swaps when swapping the 3.5 in 4th gens?

 

People are scared of the wiring. Its really not that bad at all.

 

i can see that but its funny

Id rather do the wiring than change to 3.0 timing , cam adapters n all that stuff.


One day i'm a look into the 4th gen 3.5 swap and see if there is anything i can do to make it easier. (Ive got some reaaaaally good ideas) But no way im even going to start messing with it at this time.

 

Its expensive! lol

 

What's the point besides VTC's?

I see no real reason to do a full ECU swap besides for a little midrange?
I was interested when TS made ecu's for you guys but since that's out, i'd rather do a JWT ECU and keep my current electronics+timing.

I'm pretty much 99% sure I am doing the hybrid swap, unless anyone has direct dyno evidence that shows an impressive and drastic difference then I am not planning on doing a full swap.

 

Of course, you will see different numbers with 3.5 timing and ECU. With 3.5 timing+ECU the ECU will constantly be changing intake timing to make better torque and change timing high in the revs. But, then again you can "tune" the motor to compensate for lost numbers down low and up top when running 3.0 timing components with EMU. Not too many people have done full 3.5 swaps, the electronics and wiring scare them. It is a lot easier to just run 3.5 motor w/VQ30 timing components and tune off that. Plus, there are a ton of people running these setups, so if you run into a problem there is a lot of support to back you up.

 

At worst I will have the same low end I do now (highly doubtful, should have plenty more if it behaves like the other hybrid swapped car here), which I am perfectly satisfied with, but then again, I have the short gearing so I can pick and choose whatever powerband suits me the best, rather it be in the middle or up top, who knows, I know I'm in uncharted waters with this motor here...

Yuuuuup! I don't want to do it because I do not see a real benefit, and I don't like variable things, I like them plain and simple lol.

Yup! Wiring doesn't scare me as much though, I'm just lazy about it.....

Yuuup! Especially with the ability to have an ECU with a more aggressive tune.

You know my thinking behind this all the way, you sure you aren't some e-psychic? lol.

As of now I am highly unsure about rather or not to build the heads and low end, I would assume if they fixed the piston ring problem they would have fixed the rod bolts/main studs issue also??? I may have to go over to NissanClub and ask some of these questions too.....

//Edit:
Good news:
I sold a motor today

Bad news:
I sold the 09 altima motor today (the one I was planning on buying)

Also, the motor weighs 359lbs, just incase anyone was wondering, off it goes to middle of nowhere tx

 

I am running a basic VQ35 swap w/VQ30 timing components and the car runs strong. Will rip 1st,2nd chirp 3rd with tons of bottom end and its not even tuned. Car pulled a 13.5 at the track which is a nice number for a untuned VQ swap. You have to look at what you are going to do with the motor. Will it be daily car, track car, weekend car? Building the heads will set you back easily couple grand unless you have the tools and know what you are doing. As far as the bottom end, unless you are boosting or spraying there is no point in building the bottom end. They are good for about 400whp then you will start throwing rods. Don't assume anything from anyone when purchasing a motor, for all you know they could have thrown one piston ring in there and called it a day. Unless there are receipts and a build thread don't assume anything!

 

Nice, I do the same and chirp 4th with much slower times lol.

All of the above.

I wouldn't call it building the heads, it's only retainers and springs because I may have the RL set @ 7.5k.
Again with revving higher and the high likelyhood of a 50 shot I know for sure I would have put this stuff on an older VQ35, but with these 07+ ones I am not so sure anymore.... Depends on how close I am to my september deadline we'll see how much gets thrown at this motor.

There's no room to assume anything with a 2 thousand mile motor... Well when I started the thread it was with a 2 thousand mile motor, then I sold it. Before we part the cars we drive them around first to test for any problems and give it a thorough inspection.

Either way, I have not seen too many 5 digit L32 altima motors for sale, most of them have like 8-9k miles on them and are in great shape from the pictures.

But only time will tell, one day I will have the thread "L32 Altima VQ35 Swap in a 4th gen" one day.....

PS, do you post from your phone? lol.

 

Assuming the FSM is correct, the CR difference between the max/alt comes from the crank. The pistons are not the same as HR pistons - neither are the rings. The max piston is shorter than the HR from the skirt up. The altima/maxima uses moly rings (doesn't rely on the cylinder wall for lube..as much) and the HR uses a more aggressive underhook design. Why the valves are smaller is a guess, but obviously the heads flow better - there is already more OEM cam lift/duration, and they may or may not be lighter (the stem is longer) - not to mention the important difference isn't the valve diamater, but the angle of the seat, which is new. In general, the lower portion of the intake tract is a straighter line into the heads, the old vq35 had a steeper short turn into the bowl and a greater percentage of the curve from the plenum->head was taken up by the LIM - so have your guess. I have no idea on the rods/bolts, I'd assume they're stronger considering the CVT can hold redline, but who knows. The bottom end definately isn't built like an HR, if thats what you need to hear...

 

Good info, you got some things I overlooked when I was FSM diving.

I think I will stay out of the head and keep the motor stock, with this bit of new info I will keep my redline @ 7.2k and enjoy it.

I'm onto a new problem....

The trend in dyno's I'm seeing is that the further nissan progressed the VQ35, the more HP it builds towards redline but the TQ still dropped off towards the Redline....

I am personally not a fan of loosing 40ft/lbs from peak to redline.....

What to do about this?

 

Duration on the cams is just as important, if not more important that lift. Don't look at the cams from the advertised specs. Take for example a lot of companies will advertise cams at 262 duration, but the real duration would be 248 at .050 lift. What is important is the duration/lift at .050 lift. I am not going to go into cams here because they are a science themselves and can easily fill this thread up with info on just cams.

 

I will take it out of my previous post then, thanks for the heads up.

//Edit, went over some more dyno's today, and it is of my opinion that VTC's are useless for WOT activities, so it's definitely out of the question for me to do a full ecu swap.

VQ30DE-K's don't lose very much tq towards redline... Then again, they don't have any tq to lose in the first place.
I've seen them loose as little as 20 ft/lbs (IDEAL FOR ME) but the most I've seen it drop is 30 ft/lbs.... Then again this is where I'm at with my current powerband, I lose about 30 ft/lbs from peak till shift.

 

Does anyone a good website to buy good used nissan engines?

 

car-part.com

 

http://nissanunlimited.com/

Or call 832-467-4400 and ask for AARON!

 

cool i check out those sites, do any of you know what type of questions should be asked to the sellers?

 

Any question is fine, they like to talk about nissans up there, Aaron is the guy I talk to most of the time.

 

The dyno of my dreams.

No, not the numbers, the LINES!!!!!!!!!!!

370z with Stillen Intake, Berk HFC and Stillen Catback.

Like I said before, the VQ35DE, Rev-Up and HR, all have the same TQ loss issues in the powerband, you drop about 40 ft/lbs till red line, this one right here is more towards my ideal lines for a motor that I want.

So, my current question that I'm looking for the answer is.....

What are the differences between a VQ35HR and a VQ37VHR??
-Does VVEL really flatten the TQ curve that well? A tear falls out of my eye whenever I look @ VQ37 dynos.....
--Yes it seems so, I'm looking @ SR20s, and the differences is the same thing... Fudge...
---Better question.... I know the older NEO-VVL's only had a 1-2 type thing going on like VTEC... Now, I need to find out if VVEL has a 1-2 type thing or from what I'm reading it seems more advanced and it has more than a on-off mode.....

Today's findings in the next post....

 

Ok, been asking questions and getting good answers.

I asked a simple question and got a simple answer, the reason for TQ falling off is the lack of air velocity.

Which makes sense because after my dyno digging you can easily spot a boosted VQ35 out of a N/A one because of how the TQ looks towards redline.

Now the assumption I'm running with is that VVEL lowers the lift of the valves and increases the duration more and more as the engine approaches redline to help with the air velocity.

So, my current question.....

How do I increase the air velocity MOAR? I was told to avoid the subject of cams but we're headed there now that I've narrowed it down to a camming and valve issue.

Ideas... The older VQ35s have shorter stems bigger valves yet more aggressive cams, newer VQs have longer stems and smaller valves and less aggressive cams.... I don't know quite yet where to go with this, shorter valves with the weaker cams???

 

I would think the steeper port angle necessitates a longer valve and that the higher flow numbers of the ports require less flow at the valve it's self.

 

This seems to be the pattern, on the HR motor and on the 7th gen max vq35 and on the L32 altima vq35.


Leave it to Aaron @ NWP to solve my little conundrum, I don't know why I didn't see his dyno chart sooner!

So I have a pretty good idea of what I am going to do now (Cams and minor headwork)

Now we play the waiting game as I collect the parts.