Acording to Place racing the Monsterflow filter makes 4 horsepower over the K&N. They have a dyno chart that 'proves' it showing close to a 4 hp gain across most of the powerband. They also claim the oil used in the K&N can damage an airflow sensor but the oil used in the monsterflow would not. Is the monsterflow better than the K&N?

http://www.custommaxima.com/Monsterflow.pdf

 

Almost 50 views and no one has an opinion on this? Is this the same group that almost comes to blows over the 'pop charger vs CAI' and other debates?

Anyone....Anyone....

 

I've had a long discussion w/ Brian Catts about this issue. He seems to believe that the Monster Flow is better than the K&N for the reasons you've stated. Now that they've got a dyno, I guess that makes the case a little better. But then again, dyno's can be rigged. Also, several people have posted lately about how their MAF's were very, very dirty from the oil on their K&N filters.

 

Ask for proof of the filtering ability between the two.

 

I think people are reluctant to reply because most of us are using K&N and we don't really want to believe that Monster is better because we know K&N is better. Don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up syndrome. Anyway, looks good on paper but again the old saying "figures don't lie but liars can figure". That may not be appropriate here but I would like to see more than one dyno and from an unbiased source. Like Shadow said dyno's can be rigged and there are a lot of variables, ie was it same day, same car same same??? The Monster also costs more but that doesn't mean they are better either, I sure would like to see some more testing especially concerning the MAF coating.
I am not saying the tests are not true and the K&N is better but I am just not convinced from reading one Place Racing advertisement. They stand to make a lot of money if everyone switches over from their present filter. Also, Monster does't make any claims like this on their website its mostly about the turbulance reduction.

 

I was one of those people (with the dirty MAFS). However, we have to look at 2 things whenever we decide on a product, the product itself and service. I don't know anything about monster's service, but I do know K&N's is second to none.

I had a problem with an over oiled filter from the factory and K&N rushed me out a new one (properly oiled) and a new cleaning kit. All next day air and all free. If monster offers this kind of service, than K&N will need to watch out for them. Everybody knows K&N...that happens because they have great products and great service.

Maybe Monster will be the next K&N...who knows...

Brian

 

Now we're getting somewhere

I think the dyno by place racing is suspect since they are trying to prove what they sell is better. And since Cattman sells the Place racing intake with the Monsterflow filter he is also biased, but I still do trust his opinion. Filtering ability is somehing I forgot to ask about.

Of course since K&N is established many people will belive a new product can not be better and many people will insist that what they have is the best even when evidence proves otherwise.

 

Monster flow filters are oiled also correct? If so, it's just as likely to coat the maf if inproperly oil just like the K&N.

If they are NOT oiled, I wouldn't touch them.

I read a test for filtering between K&N, Blitz(ss steel filter), Greedy(non-oiled foam) and etc.. The foam flowed slightly better but it was absolutely the bottom in filtering. Might as well as just forgo the filter all together.

For the record, I've run K&N filters for 5+ years and never had a problem. But then again, I've properly oiled mine all the time also. It's not brain surgery. I feel bad for those who have received over oiled units from the get to though.

 

From place racings information they are oiled, but it is a different type of oil that will not coat the maf sensor.

Did some web surfing looking for Monsterflow, found one Miatia owner who dynoed +6hp and +6tq by adding a monterflow intake (vs stock)http://list.miata.net/miata/1999-12/2927.html

 

And how did it filter? Better micron filtration than others? ie.. K&N?

 

It is always hard to de-throne the king. I am a K&N fan for many years because of what everyone has pretty much said here. I would be hard pressed to buy the first new snake oil that comes around, specially when it's being peddled by the people who stand to gain the most (as in this case). Has anyone done any research to find out why K&N is not going to supply the filters for Place anymore? I seriously doubt that Place Racing was the biggest fish in the K&N stable, but I am also sure that K&N was proactive in deciding the fate of that account (i.e. Maybe it wasn't Place Racing not using K&N anymore, Maybe K&N didn't want to use Place Racing....).

 

Place Racing doesn't want to use K&N, not the other way around. They have their reasons.

 

That's why I said "maybe", but either way that's the whole reason for the thread....Why did they decide to stop using K&N?.

 

The Monster filter is a foam filter. are you sure its oiled? anyways, theyve done tests with all different types of filters and i remembered that the foams filtering ability was the worse. dont rmemeber the websites but maybe others do. Even if it does prove to give an extra horsepower or 2, its not worth it in my opinion. How muc does te Monster filter sell for? ive installed a few and they feel SOOOOO cheap, id be upset if i paid over 50 bucks for it.

 

Could cost and bottomline be those reasons?

DW

 

Their site (Monsterflow.com) lists it at $90+

 

More than likely it's a cost issue. Who wouldn't want K&N's name on their product??

Turbo, I had that test link but it's not working anymore. The Blitz ss filters flowed but sucked ***** in filtration also.

The only thing saving the monster flow IMHO is that Amsoil also uses an oiled foam filter in their filters. But I have no idea if they use the same type of foam/oil etc.......

I would say the only reason you don't see oil mafs on MF filters is that not many maxima owners are using them yet.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but these Monsters seem to be surrounded by alot of hype. Alot. I get skeptical when I see that.

DW

 

On the monsterflow info page listed in the OP it says the 'monsterflow uses a non-petroleum tactifying agent instead of oil'. Do foam filters usually not use oil? Have there been any tests of the filtering ability of oiled foam filters?

Right now there is a group deal for the PR upper section & Monsterflow filter for $125, so about $50 for the filter.

 

$90 for that cheap thing??? Crazy, and its ugly too! The foam on the monster is cheap too, its like glued together all ugly and crap. $90? how sad.

 

Yep. $99.95 +s/h to be exact.

To answer your other question. Quoted from their site:

"Swappable Filter Foam Elements to match your high performance needs. (Street, Sport, and Race Filter Foams available)"

 

its not glued together. Its sanwiched between 2 halves and bolted together. I posted pics of it when its taken apart. im still using a k&n filter until I see proof that the MF is better

 

For those who belive the monsterflow is crap. As far as I know place racing has a good reputation, why would they ruin their reputation by using an inferior filter? Even if they had a dispute with K&N or could make more profit with the monsterflow, I don't think they would risk their reputation for short term gain.

This is not meant to be a flame, I am still undecided and will probably go with the K&N unless I see evidence that the monsterflow is as good or better than the K&N including filtration.

BTW how much does a K&N filter cost?

 

See guys, this is my point: I'm not trying to doubt Shadow at all, maybe he has an inside track or something, but I don't think that a company that has been advertising that their kits come "with a genuine K&N filter" as if it was an "advantage" would just switch to another filter just for the heck of it. It was due to either A: They did in fact found another filter that is extraordinary and superior to the K&N; or B: They struck up a deal with someone else that is economically better and therefore are trying very hard to support their decision in the PR arena.

Just my thought.

 

B


And, Anachroism, I'm not coming down hard on Cattman just becaues. He's made enough money off of me, I got my CAI,Y,and RSB thru him. If he had an FSTB, I probably would have gotten that thru him as well. I am thankful for his company because he gives us mods for our car at reasonable prices.

But this Monster Flow thing, well . . . . . . .

DW

 

Is it me or does anyone notice that Monster Flow's logo looks similar to Frankencar's...

Hmm... perhaps this is Steve's new product? J/K of course

 

 

i've thought about it after these k/n debacles but i don't think i cna get them cheap enought to not raise my costs. i'll have to contact them.

-steve

 

k/n debacles?

So you like the monsterflow other than the higher price?

 

let's just say i just got off the phone with monster flow and i liked what i heard. they definetly are good with potential clients. i'm not gonna spill the beans yet but i think k/n is out the door.

 

also cus i love you guys so much i'm not gonna change my prices

 

Just a guess here...but I bet they are VERY good to potential distributors...

Those air filters are twice the cost of a K&N (or at least close)...if you are not going to change your prices AND you seem pretty quick to change, I bet they will make you more money.

I don’t blame you...I am a businessman too; if you can offer a perceivably better product and make your business more money (to invest in a mandrel pipe bender maybe?) that is a win win! Again…this is just a guess.

Just better hope if there is a flaw in the new filter, their service is half as good as K&N's or you maybe in some trouble with the people that trust you.

Anyways…off the soapbox now…on to constructing a cold air box!!

Good Luck Steve, regardless what your decision is!!

Brian

 

thanks man, yes they were very good to me. i'm gonna dyno with one and it should get rid of the choppy ness. I hope there isn't a flaw with it, or me and PR are gonna have words with them. seems to be decent, i'm just upset about the over oiled factory K/N's. that's not good business.

 

So any word on how the monsterflow does on filtration, preferably something from an independant lab.

 

i wonder if i can so somewhere and have it done myself. any thoughts?

 

lets try this...

well run eachother maximas..with the 2 types of filters...sounds fair all...im a 4th gen autotragic with a PR CAI only ...so far ..K & N

any 4th gens with monster flow on ..ill run...n lets see the different pulls/gains


bro u think ur gonna get ur hands on these filters ...??

u know i over oiled my filter once... neva had any problems...sensor not all that dirty ..pipe ..clean bout 98% ... K&N doin me good so far...but ill be a test monkey for the 4th gens with the monster flow ..

 

different cars have too many inconsistencies. and the neweer maximas have more sensitive MAF's. I'll just dyno them for now. same car same day is the only way to do it.

 

cool, let us know about the results. Im not too excited on which filter gives more hp but I do want to know which will filter better and last longer.

 

This is Amsoils information on how they did a comparison test, taken from http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/memb...an/index.shtml


Jim Bigley, author of The Diesel Page Website, put the AMSOIL Two-stage Air Filter to side-by-side testing with two other popular air filters. Bigley tested a K&N #1690 oiled gauze performance filter, an AC A644C paper filter with an oiled foam wrap and the AMSOIL TS-52. All three filters were tested as received.

Bigley collected a road dust sample and treated it to pulverizing and grain sorting processes used in geological sample preparation. He tested each filter with a mixture of road dust grain sizes: four ounces with grain size smaller than 0.0049 inches, one ounce with grain size between 0.0049 inches and 0.0082 inches, and less than one ounce with grain size between 0.0082 inches and 0.0098 inches.

Bigley used a vacuum assembly, rated at 540 CFM, to pull air through the airbag. To test filtering efficiency, he coated three 4" X 4" ceramic plates with a very sticky tack oil and placed the plates inside the airbox on top of the fan cage so they could trap the particles that passed through the filter. He photographed each plate after test end.

Bigley reports, "K&N came in dead last in this test as expected. I expected the AC filter to do the best in the filtering efficiency test, but it came in just slightly (emphasis Bigley's) ahead of the K&N. Before testing the AC I didn't think anything could get through it, especially with (its) oiled foam wrap. The AMSOIL filter surprised me by winning this contest by a big margin. The advertising claim on the AMSOIL box which says, 'Proven Best for Removing Airborne Dirt' is no idle claim."

In his conclusion, Bigley reports, "From a filtering efficiency standpoint, the AMSOIL oiled foam filter element will protect your engine better than the other two style filters tested. No doubt about it."

 

I doubt that place racing and cattman would put their good reputations on the line to make a quick buck off the mon filter. If the mon flo turned out to be crap or lose hp on a dyno over a k&n then those two buisness' would suffer alot and I personally couldnt trust them anymore. they wouldnt switch form k&n, who is the top dog of intake filters to something no one has ever heard of if they didnt have proof . im sure they wouldnt gamble with their buisness like that. Im glad I havent got an intake yet so ill be able to get the pr w/ mon filter in the near future. but as always I am naturally sceptacle and would probabally want more proof as well.

If it turned out that the monster fliter only makes 1 0r 2 hp over the k&n I would prolly stick w/ k&n. Now 4hp, thats a pretty sgnificant increase that would make the switch worth it.
thank you for reading