My buddy in Colorado just bought the Talon and I'm heading back through there in a week, and I'm thinking a race is going to be inevitable. I'm pretty sure I'll beat him....(note my mods in the sig) and he is stock. I'm expecting to get worked on the launch, since he is a good driver, but I'm pretty sure the max will beat him in the long run...we'll probably run up to about 110. So I guess my question is what is there that I need to do to make sure I win? This isn't just my pride, it's all of ours at stake.

 

You'll crush him. What I'm concerned about is by how much. If is a good driver just make sure you practice before you race.

 

just wondering....is the TSi the turbo version of Talon?

 

I doubt you'll crush him, but you'll win if you don't make any mistakes. It is the turbo version and I had one (well, the Mitsu verion but it's the same car). Barring mistakes by you, you should be about 2 lengths ahead at 100pmh (I'm new, is that a 'crush'?).

 

yup. AWD and Turbo...but I think the max will win at top end. He will defenitly have the advantage being awd at launch time.

 

I think the only time there is AWD on those cars is when it is the turbo version.

 

Yup 190 HP at FLYWHEEL. But being a turbo its there MUCH faster. I had the Plymouth Laser RS and it only had 170 HP for same motor with turbo. The AWD added a bit to compesate for the AWD aspect.

 

My GSX (Mitsu Eclipse AWD turbo version) was a very fun car to drive. I had a 93 and did ok against mustang GTs that were a year or two older. I'd lose if the driver was good, but if he made a mistake I'd win. I almost rear-ended one guy when I was behind him and we both took off from a light and he slipped a little on the clutch... moral of this story, be NEXT TO the guy you're racing! (hey, I was 17 and stupid and there was only one lane)

 

When I looked it up on carpoint it said 210 HP / 214 ft-lb.

 

Hmm, you are right...I was thinking more of the earlier generation (90-92-3?) prior to the static headlight...sorry about the confusion.

 

if its modded at all you will get killed i lined up against one at the track he pulled a 2.0 60' and like a 13.6 1/4 i got smoked

 

Modded ones are BRUTAL. I was part of DSM and 4 cyclinders where putting between 275-310 to the WHEELS. These guys had some $$$$ in their motors though.

You can put in bigger IC/Turbos, some had head rework, aluminum tubbing between all the "goodies". A good car that had some reliablity (I burned up 1 turbo w/in 30K with regular oil changes and NO mods and proper handling) issues but eventually fell victim to big business thinking.

 

I raced my friend's Talon TSi in my 2000 SE 5-speed, I was stock.
We raced on the highway, and he pulled on me almost everytime. They are pretty quick cars.

 

I've been smoked by a modded talon before, but this one is stock. I'm just wondering how a 2K 5 speed got beat on the highway by a stock talon....were you just leaving it in 5th gear or what? The only part I'm remotely worried about is closing up on him from his AWD launch advantage. I know i'd smoke him on a rolling start.

 

Geez people... he said in the first post it's stock. We know what can happen when anyone mods a car. Just answer his question.

Using my GSX as comparison, I'd guess you're going to pass him while you're approaching the top of second gear.

 

hmmm....being AWD doesnt mean a good launch...from my point of view. AWD-er has more advantage on turns...launch, RWD will have better chance.

 

I downshifted to 3rd as I always do on the highway when I race someone. I didn't think much of his car either, but he just keeped going and going I could not pull on him. I mean you are modded and I was stock, except the suspension mods. So you should definelty do better than me.

 

AWD is definitely an advantage when launching.

If anybody has the Dynojet Runviewer and wants to look at dyno plots of my friend's highly-modded 95 Talon TSi AWD, e-mail me.
His car makes 348 HP, 293 TQ at 20psi on pump gas, and 396 HP, 350 TQ at 23.5psi on race gas. Ran high 11's last year with less boost.

 

Not my pride, buddy...

Hey, I thought Y2KevSE represented us all...

G

 

Bottom line... the Talon will smoke the Maxima. Off the line he'll jump ahead like you're driving a truck. And he'll keep pulling because he's got a turbo. In the high elevations of Colorado if you don't have a turbo forget it.

 

I looked at a Talon when I was younger. Fast, nice looking, backseats good for kids, trunk good for a box of corn flakes.
Stock they are I believe 6.4 0-60 and 15.2 1/4 mi cars. With very little spent they car be modded to the 13.5 sec range. The older ondes has 190-195 hp, while the most recent version has 210. I like the older styple better as the recent ones look very small and 'not muscular'.

So, the stats say the Max is faster, at least the 6 speed. The 210hp Talon being lighter might give the 2k a good run.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by johnnyae
Bottom line... the Talon will smoke the Maxima. Off the line he'll jump ahead like you're driving a truck. And he'll keep pulling because he's got a turbo. In the high elevations of Colorado if you don't have a turbo forget it. [/QUOT

Exactly my opinion
I used to own a 91 Laser turbo (190hp-stock)-it would hold its own against GT's and Z28's here in Colorado.
It was definitely faster then my 2k1 5spd Max (7000+ ft)

 

again, this is wrong. The TSI is stock, his Max has some mods. Of the line he'll jump ahead but the Max will pass him somewhere around the top of second, maybe early in third.

Let us know when you race him.

 

Unfortunately, I was unable to get ahold of one of those RWD maximas and I'm stuck with the FWD version. The Talon is only about 70 lbs lighter than the max when it's the TSi AWD version. And johnnyae...the VQ engine has a better top-end than any turbo I've seen. Didn't Mercury make a Capri turbo too? I guess that would "keep pulling because he's got a turbo" too, huh. I think a turbo talon tends to give a better "butt dyno" than a smooth, quiet, N/A V6. Well I won't be racing him until next week but I'll definitely let everyone know how it goes. Laters

 

Nicely put

 

Where in Colorado? If it is in the Colorado Springs area, the altitude here is 7000+ ft, my 227hp AE is only running on 181 hp to the CRANK, according to the calculations I got of some website (don't have the link), turbo DSM's will still have their stock hp numbers




p.s. I still love my Max more!!

 

It'll be in fort collins which is about 5000 ft. I'd guess at sea level I'm running about 235-240 HP to the crank. I've never dynoed before though. How does the DSM keep it's stock HP? I don't think that's true because when he took it to Vegas (about 2000 ft.) he said there was a noticable differrence.

 

Higher elevation=less oxygen=less power.
Turbo "forces" more air in, so when NA cars loose power at higher elevations, turbocharged ones don't.
That's why I try to race only NA cars up here

 

But it's still the same low-oxygen air, even if there is more of it. Your equation there is assuming air=oxygen. There's no way a stock turbo will put down it's rated HP at 5000 ft. Maybe it loses less than a N/A car, but it won't be a 100%.

 

put ur car on reverse and u will feel the power of RWD j/k
FWD is not bad....I prefer understeering than oversteering.

 

I'm not aware that the oxygen percentage of air changes dramatically with altitude (at least within a few thousand feet of sea level). Can you back up that claim?
MaxRU's reasoning that a turbocharged car doesn't lose power like a NA car makes sense.
It's only "low-oxygen air" because of the pressure drop with altitude. That is why a normally-aspirated car's power suffers. A turbocharged car raises the pressure of the air charge to a specific boost level so that the amount of oxygen in the charge would be the same as if the car was at a lower altitude. The turbo may have to do more work at higher altitudes to produce the desired boost, so there could be additional losses on the order of a few percent, but it will fare much better than the NA car.

 

There is less oxygen at higher altitudes. Why do you think you see the other teams with the oxygen masks on at the Denver Broncos games? Try running a mile at sea level and then do it at 5000 ft. You'll notice a huge difference. The turbo can't change the oxygen content of the air. Oxygen is what the engine needs for combustion and if there is less the combustion will suffer. That's what slows the car down, not the pressure change. The turbo just gets more air in there faster, so it does help the combustion some, but it still won't be as good as sea level. This is just me talking from my engineering background, but if there's anyone that has a definitive answer on this I'd like to hear it.

 

You didn't understand my reply. I thought I said it clearly. I'm a mechanical engineer, but I don't know everything. I've never had a turbocharged car, so I can't talk from experience, but I'm trying to make conclusions intelligently.
1. I know there is less oxygen at higher altitudes.
2. The oxygen percentage of air does not change with altitude. It stays at 21%.
3. There is less oxygen because air pressure is lower.
4. Anything (a person, a NA car) that breathes air at a lower pressure will get less oxygen.
5. A turbo will attempt to raise the intake air pressure to a certain boost level, regardless of atmospheric air pressure. This is why it will not lose performance like a NA car does at higher altitudes.