THIS is the difference between a Turbo and a Supercharger
09-06-2003 | 10:24 AM
#1
THIS is the difference between a Turbo and a Supercharger
I copied this from Y2KEVSE. I added some things to the graph to help show area under the curve
THIS IS Y2KEVSE'S DYNO GRAPH. KEV IF YOU MIND I WILL TAKE THIS POST DOWN. YOU POSTED ALL THIS INFORMATION. I JUST PUT IT WHERE EVERYONE COULD SEE IT
I have made marks on the graph.. it has NOT changed
Edit: Made two changes, which are bolded.
THIS IS Y2KEVSE'S DYNO GRAPH. KEV IF YOU MIND I WILL TAKE THIS POST DOWN. YOU POSTED ALL THIS INFORMATION. I JUST PUT IT WHERE EVERYONE COULD SEE IT
Originally Posted by Y2KevSE
If you're looking at dyno numbers, the biggest difference between a turbocharged and supercharged (centrifugal) Max is the area under the hp and torque curve. Since the turbo makes peaks boost faster (meaning it will probably flow more air into the engine), a TC'ed car will pull away from the SC'ed quicker.
You want another comparison?
I am not putting down Matt or his accomplishments... this is only an example. Only respect for Matt
MardiGrasMax makes 379.78 whp and 320.43 torque at 15 psi on his SC (no nitrous). I make 317.3 whp and 314.4 torque at 10 psi.
Let's plot the hp and torque numbers
You see how close the numbers are all the way up to 5500? Close race huh? But Matt will kick my butt after 5500. 
Take a look at the dyno graph between the two different setups I had:
- SC with 2.87" pulley pushing out 11 psi
- TC with T4 ceramic ball-bearing turbo pushing out 10 psi
You want another comparison?
I am not putting down Matt or his accomplishments... this is only an example. Only respect for Matt
MardiGrasMax makes 379.78 whp and 320.43 torque at 15 psi on his SC (no nitrous). I make 317.3 whp and 314.4 torque at 10 psi.
Let's plot the hp and torque numbers
Code:
Approximate hp and torque RPM Matt Me 2500 95/190 85/180 3000 120/210 120/200 3500 160/235 145/220 4000 200/260 195/255 4500 245/285 240/305 5000 295/305 290/310 5500 325/310 305/295 6000 370/320 317/275 6500 N/A 315/250
Take a look at the dyno graph between the two different setups I had:
- SC with 2.87" pulley pushing out 11 psi
- TC with T4 ceramic ball-bearing turbo pushing out 10 psi
Edit: Made two changes, which are bolded.
09-06-2003 | 02:18 PM
#5
All YOUR grammer belong to me
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,400
What i'm surprised at is Matts V1 supercharger, which makes significantly more torque under 4000rpm at 15psi than Kevish's turbo at 10psi. At 4000rpm Matt is making 50tq more than Kevin.
Quick Spoolin', "torquey" turbo gets OwNeD by the "torqueless" lag-charger.
Quick Spoolin', "torquey" turbo gets OwNeD by the "torqueless" lag-charger.
09-06-2003 | 02:57 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Craig Mack
What i'm surprised at is Matts V1 supercharger, which makes significantly more torque under 4000rpm at 15psi than Kevish's turbo at 10psi. At 4000rpm Matt is making 50tq more than Kevin.
Quick Spoolin', "torquey" turbo gets OwNeD by the "torqueless" lag-charger.
Quick Spoolin', "torquey" turbo gets OwNeD by the "torqueless" lag-charger.
now.. I never said the SC was TQless.. kev actually said the 5th gen were TQless wonders due to the VI...
now when the VI is applied to a 4th gen we become TQ less wonders as well.
You said it yourself " What i'm surprised at is Matts V1 supercharger, which makes significantly more torque under 4000rpm at 15psi than Kevish's turbo at 10psi " the Turbo, PSI for PSI will produce MORE TQ than a SC. ( IN A MAXIMA )
And yes mardi owns all of us... and he will REALLY own ALL of us when his current project gets back to him
09-06-2003 | 03:34 PM
#8
Originally Posted by bags533
and BTW I did not put this out there to cause any hate or discontent.. just to show the MAIN power difference.
Not better, not worse.. just different
Not better, not worse.. just different
09-06-2003 | 03:55 PM
#9
Originally Posted by MoDiddy
Im dont know much about boost, so dont hate, but which one are you saying is better? Im guessing the SC'er
Well what do YOU want from your car?
When you can aswer what goals you want then you can answer your own question..
for example do you want 400 WHP?
In my opinion , in a maxima, I think the turbo is your best option. Takes more research, but the benfits are better
09-06-2003 | 06:14 PM
#10
All YOUR grammer belong to me
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,400
Originally Posted by bags533
now.. I never said the SC was TQless.. kev actually said the 5th gen were TQless wonders due to the VI...
now when the VI is applied to a 4th gen we become TQ less wonders as well.
now when the VI is applied to a 4th gen we become TQ less wonders as well.
You said it yourself " What i'm surprised at is Matts V1 supercharger, which makes significantly more torque under 4000rpm at 15psi than Kevish's turbo at 10psi " the Turbo, PSI for PSI will produce MORE TQ than a SC. ( IN A MAXIMA )
Turbo kits definatally seem to be breaking a lot of things, but the power seems to be rewarding. The SC is a very simple setup though, and can still deliver brutal power if your in the right power band.
09-06-2003 | 06:50 PM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,452
Originally Posted by Craig Mack
Turbo kits definatally seem to be breaking a lot of things, but the power seems to be rewarding. The SC is a very simple setup though, and can still deliver brutal power if your in the right power band.
09-06-2003 | 07:51 PM
#12
Originally Posted by ereet
Turbo kits breaking things? I haven't heard of anything being broken other than the turbo kit itself, with the exception of Redmax's (which is a custommaxima kit ....) What's been broken?
check this forum for my thread about my tranny..
Broken, not now... but it was not working correctly.
I put that on the VI and 8 PSI of boost, thus to much acceleration and hp/tq for the transmission to shft up into anoother gear.
and there will be broken parts VERY soon by other members.. as soon as they start "testing" the waters.
Our cars were not built for 350 + WHP/TQ
Something is bound to give sooner or later...
But that is the fun of it
09-06-2003 | 08:00 PM
#13
If you guys want a "psi" to "psi" comparision (which won't be an accurate comparison) that makes similar horsepower, take jay25's dyno graph and compare it to mine.
Code:
Approximate hp and torque RPM Jaime Me 2500 80/175 85/180 3000 110/185 120/200 3500 135/185 145/220 4000 150/200 195/255<~~~255 4500 185/215 260/305 5000 230/240 290/310 5500 255/250 305/295 6000 295/260 317/275<~~~275 6500 321/260 315/250
09-06-2003 | 08:42 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Y2KevSE
If you guys want a "psi" to "psi" comparision (which won't be an accurate comparison) that makes similar horsepower, take jay25's dyno graph and compare it to mine.
Code:
Approximate hp and torque RPM Jaime Me 2500 80/175 85/180 3000 110/185 120/200 3500 135/185 145/220 4000 150/200 195/255<~~~255 4500 185/215 260/305 5000 230/240 290/310 5500 255/250 305/295 6000 295/260 317/275<~~~275 6500 321/260 315/250
That was as close of a comparison as one could ask for.. the only way it could have been better was if you were at 11 PSI.. but life and examples aren't perfect.
and jay knows we love him.. he still kicks my ****
EDIT: i just threw in your qoute with it .. less work for me
09-09-2003 | 04:08 PM
#17
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by bags533
That is why I used YOUR dyno that you were nice enough to post
That was as close of a comparison as one could ask for.. the only way it could have been better was if you were at 11 PSI.. but life and examples aren't perfect.
and jay knows we love him.. he still kicks my ****
EDIT: i just threw in your qoute with it .. less work for me
That was as close of a comparison as one could ask for.. the only way it could have been better was if you were at 11 PSI.. but life and examples aren't perfect.
and jay knows we love him.. he still kicks my ****
EDIT: i just threw in your qoute with it .. less work for me
those numbers are higher then my baggs
, why is it that you fall off a bit close to redline? isnt the MEVI suppose to pick that up? I am lost
09-09-2003 | 04:41 PM
#18
Originally Posted by JAY25
those numbers are higher then my baggs, why is it that you fall off a bit close to redline?
isnt the MEVI suppose to pick that up? I am lost
, why is it that you fall off a bit close to redline? isnt the MEVI suppose to pick that up? I am lost
In general, a turbocharged car is best run at lower rpm and shifted earlier than a supercharged car, which is always shifted at redline for maximum acceleration. It should be interesting to compare power under the curve for a turbo'd Maxima compared to a SC'ed Maxima with, say, a 7200 rpm redline.
09-09-2003 | 04:48 PM
#19
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
This is a little easier to see IMO.
It lost the color in the PDF converison, but hopefully the attachment works.
It lost the color in the PDF converison, but hopefully the attachment works.
That is an awesome graph. It really shows what is meant by area under the curve. Jay makes more peak power, but in a race with all other things equal, keving's car is alot faster. The 5th gen does weigh a little more, but I don't think it would matter.
09-09-2003 | 04:55 PM
#20
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by 96sleeper
That is an awesome graph. It really shows what is meant by area under the curve. Jay makes more peak power, but in a race with all other things equal, keving's car is alot faster. The 5th gen does weigh a little more, but I don't think it would matter.
see how steep it is in the middle adios keving slow down let me catch up
aint no way Ill catch up even if he falls off at 5K, all I would see is his lights, no way no how, plus I shift at the end while his still going, thats how that trans am kept up with me w/every shift I made and I think I am a pretty good shifter. Bottom line Kevin has the ideal setup. T4/t4 <---dunno the specs of his turbo since I dunno much about them, trust me I love that setup very much.
09-09-2003 | 05:08 PM
#21
Originally Posted by JAY25
see how steep it is in the middle adios keving slow down let me catch up aint no way Ill catch up even if he falls off at 5K, all I would see is his lights, no way no how, plus I shift at the end while his still going, thats how that trans am kept up with me w/every shift I made and I think I am a pretty good shifter. Bottom line Kevin has the ideal setup.
aint no way Ill catch up even if he falls off at 5K, all I would see is his lights, no way no how, plus I shift at the end while his still going, thats how that trans am kept up with me w/every shift I made and I think I am a pretty good shifter. Bottom line Kevin has the ideal setup. 
BB turbos RULE!
T4/t4 <---dunno the specs of his turbo since I dunno much about them, trust me I love that setup very much.
Turbonetics T4/T04E turbo
Ceramic ball-bearing center section, wet housing (closing off the water passage for now)
Super series compressor wheel
Big shaft<~~~~
Polished compressor housing
Turbine side: On center, .81 A/R, "P" trim
Compressor side: "60" trim, 2.290" inducer, 2.950" major, 3" inlet
09-09-2003 | 05:48 PM
#22
Originally Posted by JAY25
see how steep it is in the middle adios keving slow down let me catch up aint no way Ill catch up even if he falls off at 5K, all I would see is his lights, no way no how, plus I shift at the end while his still going, thats how that trans am kept up with me w/every shift I made and I think I am a pretty good shifter. Bottom line Kevin has the ideal setup. T4/t4 <---dunno the specs of his turbo since I dunno much about them, trust me I love that setup very much.
aint no way Ill catch up even if he falls off at 5K, all I would see is his lights, no way no how, plus I shift at the end while his still going, thats how that trans am kept up with me w/every shift I made and I think I am a pretty good shifter. Bottom line Kevin has the ideal setup. T4/t4 <---dunno the specs of his turbo since I dunno much about them, trust me I love that setup very much.You = Bottom two curves
I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're saying. Kevs puts down more HP until 6400rpm(redline) and more TQ until 6250rpm.
However, you would OWN Kev from 6500-7200 IF the SC can spin that fast.
Got JWT ECU?
09-09-2003 | 06:12 PM
#24
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Kev = Top two curves
You = Bottom two curves
I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're saying. Kevs puts down more HP until 6400rpm(redline) and more TQ until 6250rpm.
However, you would OWN Kev from 6500-7200 IF the SC can spin that fast.
Got JWT ECU?
You = Bottom two curves
I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're saying. Kevs puts down more HP until 6400rpm(redline) and more TQ until 6250rpm.
However, you would OWN Kev from 6500-7200 IF the SC can spin that fast.
Got JWT ECU?
you dont understand, I wont, it wont happen trust me on this one, not a chance, theres no way you can recover from 4plus car lengths thats just too much distance to catch up, plus you just said what I missed so with the HP he makes impossible, it all adds up now 
09-09-2003 | 06:17 PM
#25
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Just for kicks...Mardi vs. Kev 
, now can he close the gap
I dont know, I lined up with him at the track when he had the 3.125 and he would pull away from me very fast, interesting to see these figures in paper.
09-09-2003 | 08:30 PM
#29
See I just find it when comparing dyno's you want to keep it as perfect as possible.
The DYNO charts ROCK!!!! BTW
But comparing 2 different cars on 2 different dyno's in 2 different regions just puts to many variables in there for me.
I understand why you did it, and I may play with ALL of them and try and make a cool chart in .pdf like you
The DYNO charts ROCK!!!! BTW
But comparing 2 different cars on 2 different dyno's in 2 different regions just puts to many variables in there for me.
I understand why you did it, and I may play with ALL of them and try and make a cool chart in .pdf like you
09-10-2003 | 05:23 AM
#30
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
I'm betting with the new 3" exhaust things would change in Kevs' favor. He has to be choking that turbo by 5000rpm.
he loves that greddy like I doD:, yeah that solves the issue right there, the 2.5 exhaust, at 3 inch exhaust hes out there all the way to redline, is like you running breathing out of a straw, I try to explain that to a .org member last night talking about his exhaust is too loud. He can go and quiet it down but when that manifold exhaust gets too hot he will know why.
09-10-2003 | 09:35 AM
#31
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
I'm betting with the new 3" exhaust things would change in Kevs' favor. He has to be choking that turbo by 5000rpm.
Originally Posted by Synki
Geez, look at that A/F ratio.
Smoothen out that dip.
Smoothen out that dip.
The car was going to be tuned, but 2 of my plugs messed up on the dyno. 
09-10-2003 | 10:09 AM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by JAY25
Kev are you going to a custom 3 inch exhaust? or are you going to try to get one from warpspeed?
I personally love my Greddy SP, to me is not that loud compared to other exhausts I seen like the Stillen which is very loud. The custom 3 inch that Ramius has is pretty loud, bagss exhaust is not loud I can live with that. I was planning on contacting Greddy and see if they are willing to make me a 3inch exhaust, dunno if they would do that but hey nothing hurts to try
I personally love my Greddy SP, to me is not that loud compared to other exhausts I seen like the Stillen which is very loud. The custom 3 inch that Ramius has is pretty loud, bagss exhaust is not loud I can live with that. I was planning on contacting Greddy and see if they are willing to make me a 3inch exhaust, dunno if they would do that but hey nothing hurts to try
09-10-2003 | 10:22 AM
#33
Originally Posted by JAY25
Kev are you going to a custom 3 inch exhaust? or are you going to try to get one from warpspeed?
I personally love my Greddy SP, to me is not that loud compared to other exhausts I seen like the Stillen which is very loud. The custom 3 inch that Ramius has is pretty loud, bagss exhaust is not loud I can live with that. I was planning on contacting Greddy and see if they are willing to make me a 3inch exhaust, dunno if they would do that but hey nothing hurts to try
I personally love my Greddy SP, to me is not that loud compared to other exhausts I seen like the Stillen which is very loud. The custom 3 inch that Ramius has is pretty loud, bagss exhaust is not loud I can live with that. I was planning on contacting Greddy and see if they are willing to make me a 3inch exhaust, dunno if they would do that but hey nothing hurts to try
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
litch
4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
123
01-04-2024 08:01 PM
doctorpullit
8th Generation Maxima (2016-)
60
12-12-2015 10:39 AM