More thoughts on the MAF placement on a 4th gen using a turbo
10-14-2003, 08:39 AM
#1
More thoughts on the MAF placement on a 4th gen using a turbo
Since I switched to a 5-spd, I COULD have the car cutting out on me like some of the other guys do.
I DO NOT have this problem.
My maf is on the Charged side, just like the SC.
SO who's turbo 5-spd is cutting off on them when they release the gas and in Neutral?
And where is you maf placed?
I have heard that the SAFC can be used to stop this.
Any truth? and if so what are the settings?
Not bashing anyone, just trying to see if we can help each other.
I DO NOT have this problem.
My maf is on the Charged side, just like the SC.
SO who's turbo 5-spd is cutting off on them when they release the gas and in Neutral?
And where is you maf placed?
I have heard that the SAFC can be used to stop this.
Any truth? and if so what are the settings?
Not bashing anyone, just trying to see if we can help each other.
10-14-2003, 11:24 AM
#2
Originally Posted by bags533
Since I switched to a 5-spd, I COULD have the car cutting out on me like some of the other guys do.
I DO NOT have this problem.
My maf is on the Charged side, just like the SC.
SO who's turbo 5-spd is cutting off on them when they release the gas and in Neutral?
And where is you maf placed?
I have heard that the SAFC can be used to stop this.
Any truth? and if so what are the settings?
Not bashing anyone, just trying to see if we can help each other.
I DO NOT have this problem.
My maf is on the Charged side, just like the SC.
SO who's turbo 5-spd is cutting off on them when they release the gas and in Neutral?
And where is you maf placed?
I have heard that the SAFC can be used to stop this.
Any truth? and if so what are the settings?
Not bashing anyone, just trying to see if we can help each other.
10-14-2003, 11:31 AM
#3
Kirk, You know I moved mine from the charged side to the intake side and it really doesnt matter if you have an auto or 5spd on that issue, however 5spds do see it more often since they hit the clutch and it can take it down to idle.
Ive tested mine by getting on it hard and shifting into Neutral and no problems. I got my BOV a little tighter so I dont run into that issue.
Most that have this issue, all you gotta do is tighten the BOV a bit from over blowing.
Dixit
Ive tested mine by getting on it hard and shifting into Neutral and no problems. I got my BOV a little tighter so I dont run into that issue.
Most that have this issue, all you gotta do is tighten the BOV a bit from over blowing.
Dixit
10-14-2003, 01:28 PM
#4
I only saw this happen a few times on Eric's car, but that was before he really got the setup tweaked. I've heard it's ok now?
I think the Maxima MAF just isn't as sensitive as it is on some other cars where you have to run a recirculation setup.
I don't know how the SAFC could be used to fix this. I'm not sure what settings would keep the car from stalling, I mean it does control fuel by modifying the MAF reading, but how would it keep the car from stalling?
I think the Maxima MAF just isn't as sensitive as it is on some other cars where you have to run a recirculation setup.
I don't know how the SAFC could be used to fix this. I'm not sure what settings would keep the car from stalling, I mean it does control fuel by modifying the MAF reading, but how would it keep the car from stalling?
Originally Posted by bags533
Since I switched to a 5-spd, I COULD have the car cutting out on me like some of the other guys do.
I DO NOT have this problem.
My maf is on the Charged side, just like the SC.
SO who's turbo 5-spd is cutting off on them when they release the gas and in Neutral?
And where is you maf placed?
I have heard that the SAFC can be used to stop this.
Any truth? and if so what are the settings?
Not bashing anyone, just trying to see if we can help each other.
I DO NOT have this problem.
My maf is on the Charged side, just like the SC.
SO who's turbo 5-spd is cutting off on them when they release the gas and in Neutral?
And where is you maf placed?
I have heard that the SAFC can be used to stop this.
Any truth? and if so what are the settings?
Not bashing anyone, just trying to see if we can help each other.
10-14-2003, 02:39 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,084
Bags, I'm with shadow. I don't think the AFC is going to "resolve" stalling problems if they are related to the MAF. The afc can be set to "trick" the ecu, but not from stalling. Even if you add a ton of fuel on the low-end, I don't think that's the root of the problem.
I don't know on max's, but we are about to try a SSQ BOV on mine between the charger and the intercooler BEFORE the MAF.
I'm told that will not be possible because it will cause the car to stall. Like a lot of other things people said couldn't be done....We'll just have to see about that. I'll let you know how it goes.
I don't know on max's, but we are about to try a SSQ BOV on mine between the charger and the intercooler BEFORE the MAF.
I'm told that will not be possible because it will cause the car to stall. Like a lot of other things people said couldn't be done....We'll just have to see about that. I'll let you know how it goes.
10-14-2003, 02:51 PM
#6
On a Maxima, PFI turbo kits all put the BOV before the MAF since the MAF is before the turbo. It works from what I can tell, though I have heard of stalling occasionally and that's what some people warn of. Who knows. But I don't see how it wouldn't affect the car. On my SC, if there was a leak in the pipe between the MAF and the TB (like if I blew the charge pipe or a coupler was loose), the car would stumble. Putting a BOV before the MAF is essentially doing the same thing, causing a loss of air that the MAF has already measured. I guess maybe it's just not enough air to matter in the MAF readings.
On DSM's though, if you don't run a recirc setup, the cars will stall and I'm pretty sure they run MAF's. Depends on the type of MAF I guess.
On DSM's though, if you don't run a recirc setup, the cars will stall and I'm pretty sure they run MAF's. Depends on the type of MAF I guess.
Originally Posted by JAIMECBR900
Bags, I'm with shadow. I don't think the AFC is going to "resolve" stalling problems if they are related to the MAF. The afc can be set to "trick" the ecu, but not from stalling. Even if you add a ton of fuel on the low-end, I don't think that's the root of the problem.
I don't know on max's, but we are about to try a SSQ BOV on mine between the charger and the intercooler BEFORE the MAF.
I'm told that will not be possible because it will cause the car to stall. Like a lot of other things people said couldn't be done....We'll just have to see about that. I'll let you know how it goes.
I don't know on max's, but we are about to try a SSQ BOV on mine between the charger and the intercooler BEFORE the MAF.
I'm told that will not be possible because it will cause the car to stall. Like a lot of other things people said couldn't be done....We'll just have to see about that. I'll let you know how it goes.
10-14-2003, 03:05 PM
#7
Originally Posted by JAIMECBR900
Bags, I'm with shadow. I don't think the AFC is going to "resolve" stalling problems if they are related to the MAF. The afc can be set to "trick" the ecu, but not from stalling. Even if you add a ton of fuel on the low-end, I don't think that's the root of the problem.
I don't know on max's, but we are about to try a SSQ BOV on mine between the charger and the intercooler BEFORE the MAF.
I'm told that will not be possible because it will cause the car to stall. Like a lot of other things people said couldn't be done....We'll just have to see about that. I'll let you know how it goes.
I don't know on max's, but we are about to try a SSQ BOV on mine between the charger and the intercooler BEFORE the MAF.
I'm told that will not be possible because it will cause the car to stall. Like a lot of other things people said couldn't be done....We'll just have to see about that. I'll let you know how it goes.
Well, there are some settings on the SAFC, I saw someone playing with and IT DID cause the car to idle VERY rough in "N" and cut off.. I DON"T KNOW what settings...
And on the BOV issue, that MAKES a ton of sense, like jeff said. My BOV is AFTER my maf.
and I did not include you 5th gener's
Just kidding
10-14-2003, 03:54 PM
#8
Look at my comp I video.. you can see I had the non-pressurized MAF setup at first.. and you can also see at ~25secs into the video where I had to baby it back down to idle, to keep it from dying.
Even with my BOV turned completely off, my car had driveability issues only until I moved the MAF close to the TB. I fooled with it a little non-pres. to see what luck I could have, and talked with some people and made the decision to cut and switch it to pres. side. Ever since I've loved it.
I did not have an SAFC, although they do have a feature (I forget what its called) to help prevent the off-boost BOV stalling issue.
As far as 5th gens, maybe their setup is dif, considering even stillen changed to non-pres. maf then, and it seems as if the 5th gens may blow more often? Looks as if 5th gens can get away with unpres. looking at bigdogjonx/kev - but they are both electronically controlled too? Not sure there
Even with my BOV turned completely off, my car had driveability issues only until I moved the MAF close to the TB. I fooled with it a little non-pres. to see what luck I could have, and talked with some people and made the decision to cut and switch it to pres. side. Ever since I've loved it.
I did not have an SAFC, although they do have a feature (I forget what its called) to help prevent the off-boost BOV stalling issue.
As far as 5th gens, maybe their setup is dif, considering even stillen changed to non-pres. maf then, and it seems as if the 5th gens may blow more often? Looks as if 5th gens can get away with unpres. looking at bigdogjonx/kev - but they are both electronically controlled too? Not sure there
10-14-2003, 04:10 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by hlh0501
Look at my comp I video.. you can see I had the non-pressurized MAF setup at first.. and you can also see at ~25secs into the video where I had to baby it back down to idle, to keep it from dying.
Even with my BOV turned completely off, my car had driveability issues only until I moved the MAF close to the TB. I fooled with it a little non-pres. to see what luck I could have, and talked with some people and made the decision to cut and switch it to pres. side. Ever since I've loved it.
I did not have an SAFC, although they do have a feature (I forget what its called) to help prevent the off-boost BOV stalling issue.
As far as 5th gens, maybe their setup is dif, considering even stillen changed to non-pres. maf then, and it seems as if the 5th gens may blow more often? Looks as if 5th gens can get away with unpres. looking at bigdogjonx/kev - but they are both electronically controlled too? Not sure there
Even with my BOV turned completely off, my car had driveability issues only until I moved the MAF close to the TB. I fooled with it a little non-pres. to see what luck I could have, and talked with some people and made the decision to cut and switch it to pres. side. Ever since I've loved it.
I did not have an SAFC, although they do have a feature (I forget what its called) to help prevent the off-boost BOV stalling issue.
As far as 5th gens, maybe their setup is dif, considering even stillen changed to non-pres. maf then, and it seems as if the 5th gens may blow more often? Looks as if 5th gens can get away with unpres. looking at bigdogjonx/kev - but they are both electronically controlled too? Not sure there
I am in the same boat, except I downshift to keep it from shutting off. There is the deceleration setting but I have not played with it enough to figure it out. I did play with it at chik-filet and the car shut off
had baggs in the car to witness it. If I cant solve the issue Ill just change my MAF to the pressurized side.
10-14-2003, 07:50 PM
#10
Well, at idle you can make it rich enough or lean enough to stumble and stall out. My friend tunes a lot of AFC's on his dyno, and when he installs them first, what he does is adjust the fuel until it runs rich enough to puff black smoke and start stumbling, that lets him know the rough range of adjustment for that particular car. But that's at a static situation. I don't know how an AFC could prevent a stall since that's going to occur at different RPM's and throttle settings.
Originally Posted by bags533
Well, there are some settings on the SAFC, I saw someone playing with and IT DID cause the car to idle VERY rough in "N" and cut off.. I DON"T KNOW what settings...
And on the BOV issue, that MAKES a ton of sense, like jeff said. My BOV is AFTER my maf.
and I did not include you 5th gener's
Just kidding
And on the BOV issue, that MAKES a ton of sense, like jeff said. My BOV is AFTER my maf.
and I did not include you 5th gener's
Just kidding
10-14-2003, 09:19 PM
#11
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The S-AFC has a function called Dec. Air. The way it works is it clamps the maximum voltage signal from the Mass Air flow sensor depending on throttle position and also rpm. Once set right, you will never stall. The emanage has the same function. It's awesome! The stalling really bugged me enough to play with the settings and get it pretty close. I still need to fine tune it a little!
10-15-2003, 06:00 AM
#12
When I went to the Z32 maf I had to move it to the non-press side, and I had to run a recirc hose from the bov to the pipe in between the maf and the blower inlet. Without the recirc hose the car idles so rich that it bogs way down (because my bov is partially open at idle). With this setup the car idles and runs great. I would prefer to have the maf between the blower and TB, but apparently Z32 mafs are like 5th gen Maxima mafs and can't handle the pressure.
10-15-2003, 06:15 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by Stephen Max
When I went to the Z32 maf I had to move it to the non-press side, and I had to run a recirc hose from the bov to the pipe in between the maf and the blower inlet. Without the recirc hose the car idles so rich that it bogs way down (because my bov is partially open at idle). With this setup the car idles and runs great. I would prefer to have the maf between the blower and TB, but apparently Z32 mafs are like 5th gen Maxima mafs and can't handle the pressure.
10-15-2003, 06:19 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by turbo97SE
The S-AFC has a function called Dec. Air. The way it works is it clamps the maximum voltage signal from the Mass Air flow sensor depending on throttle position and also rpm. Once set right, you will never stall. The emanage has the same function. It's awesome! The stalling really bugged me enough to play with the settings and get it pretty close. I still need to fine tune it a little!
Nigel had not had a chance to play with deceleration setting. Instead I just tightened the BOV some more and the car doesnt do it once in a while. BOV whistle still very loud even after tightening some more. I may see if I can screw it all the way down as far as I can.
10-15-2003, 06:35 AM
#15
Originally Posted by JAY25
thanks you answered a question I was going to ask! appreciate this info. I got schooled this weekend with that Z32 MAF you guys keep on talking about. Instead of blowing money on DYNO tuning I am leaning towards this ECU upgrade and it will be worth it. Can you please send me a picture when you can of that recirculation valve set up. Id like to go with this Z32 MAF and ECU in the near future
10-15-2003, 06:47 AM
#16
Originally Posted by JAY25
Nigel had not had a chance to play with deceleration setting. Instead I just tightened the BOV some more and the car doesnt do it once in a while. BOV whistle still very loud even after tightening some more. I may see if I can screw it all the way down as far as I can.
DId you get a chance to rip vids? I called you that day...
10-15-2003, 07:25 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by Max4Speed
DId you get a chance to rip vids? I called you that day...
no! I bought a new digi-8 camcorder last night and no audio. Same freaking problem and I dont know why. I am going to return it today.
10-15-2003, 08:45 AM
#18
Originally Posted by JAY25
I am in the same boat, except I downshift to keep it from shutting off. There is the deceleration setting but I have not played with it enough to figure it out. I did play with it at chik-filet and the car shut off had baggs in the car to witness it. If I cant solve the issue Ill just change my MAF to the pressurized side.
had baggs in the car to witness it. If I cant solve the issue Ill just change my MAF to the pressurized side.Also the same day we finished Jaime. It's the deceleration air flow no?
We were coming around a curve, and the power went out, therefore making power steering go out.
good thing Jaimes a strong dude.
10-15-2003, 09:03 AM
#20
Because nobody is 100% certain whether the 4th gen MAF can handle being on the charged side I guess. This issue never came up with the SC's since it came that way. I guess with turbos, there came options and people noticed that the 5th gens blew MAFs a lot and that the MAF was on the non charged side in SC setups. Plus Z MAF conversions require it to be on the non charged side.
I personally believe that on a 4th gen, it should be on the charged side and that is the way I'm building my setup and the way we did Jason's.
I personally believe that on a 4th gen, it should be on the charged side and that is the way I'm building my setup and the way we did Jason's.
Originally Posted by ejj
I've never really gotten into the MAF discussions...but why in the world would you put the MAF on the the non-charged side if the MAF can handle being on the charged side?
10-15-2003, 09:48 AM
#21
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I think Nigel posted a info maf been on non charged side, I just cant remember why or where did I read the info but is highly advisable to have it on the non charged side.
10-15-2003, 10:20 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Shadow
Because nobody is 100% certain whether the 4th gen MAF can handle being on the charged side I guess..
This issue never came up with the SC's since it came that way. I guess with turbos, there came options and people noticed that the 5th gens blew MAFs a lot and that the MAF was on the non charged side in SC setups. Plus Z MAF conversions require it to be on the non charged side.
I personally believe that on a 4th gen, it should be on the charged side and that is the way I'm building my setup and the way we did Jason's..
I personally believe that on a 4th gen, it should be on the charged side and that is the way I'm building my setup and the way we did Jason's..
10-15-2003, 10:27 AM
#23
I've never heard of an incidence where a 4th gen MAF blew up from being on the charged side. It's just what I hear when I ask why not put it on the charged side. This came up a bunch of times when we did Jason's car, everyone said it would blow up, blah blah. Car is still running great, and it doesn't ever stall.
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
Eh? Has anybody experienced 4th gen maf trouble from being on the charged side?
I guess the only argument for putting it on the noncharged side to begin with is so that you're already set up for when/if you decide to do the Z32 maf conversion.
I guess the only argument for putting it on the noncharged side to begin with is so that you're already set up for when/if you decide to do the Z32 maf conversion.
10-15-2003, 08:31 PM
#24
Originally Posted by Shadow
I've never heard of an incidence where a 4th gen MAF blew up from being on the charged side. It's just what I hear when I ask why not put it on the charged side. This came up a bunch of times when we did Jason's car, everyone said it would blow up, blah blah. Car is still running great, and it doesn't ever stall.
I ALWAYS point to mardi. He pushed 14 PSI I think, at LEAST 12 PSI.
And I NEVER once saw an issue with his MAF. He even bored it out and still no problems.
The ONLY time I hear about changing it, on a 4th gen, is when a 300Z MAF is going to be used.
As much as I hate stillen, they MUST have known what they were doing when the put it on the cahrged side of a 4th gen.
And again when they moved it to the NON charged side for the 5th gens.
And MINE has been on the charged side for about 6 months now and not 1 issue. Puished 8 PSI and even 10 a few times.
10-15-2003, 10:53 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Shadow
Because nobody is 100% certain whether the 4th gen MAF can handle being on the charged side I guess. This issue never came up with the SC's since it came that way. I guess with turbos, there came options and people noticed that the 5th gens blew MAFs a lot and that the MAF was on the non charged side in SC setups. Plus Z MAF conversions require it to be on the non charged side.
I personally believe that on a 4th gen, it should be on the charged side and that is the way I'm building my setup and the way we did Jason's.
I personally believe that on a 4th gen, it should be on the charged side and that is the way I'm building my setup and the way we did Jason's.
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