James92SE

iTrader: (31)

I will begin gathering parts next month if all goes according to schedule, with a purchase of the turbo, intercooler, wastegate, and maybe the BOV if moola permits at the time.. After some researching last night it appears I'll be going with a t3/t04e, but I'm not sure what trim and a/r I'd need. From what I've read on the .org it looks like the ideal a/r is between .58 and .68 or so. It seems some 4th gen guys are running .81 AR and that these are more-or less super high speed monsters.

I want relatively quick spooling boost. Something that'll hit full boost at 3200-3500 rpm kinda range. I'm not so interested in dueling it out with Supras at 140 mph so I think I dont want the .81 AR.

The turbo I'm thinking of getting (at this point) is a Garret t3/t04e 60 trim/.63 AR. You turbo experts, does this seem appropriate for what I want - 300 whp or so in 'street' form with full boost in 3200 - 3500 ish rpm range (maybe a tad bit higher) and not a lot o' turbo lag? Like I said I'm not so interested in dueling it out with Supras at 140 mph. I want some really usable power from a stop and whatnot too. Also fyi I'll be using ttz pistons so my comp. ratio will be 8.5:1

I posted this on another forum a few days ago and have since been informed that I want a straight t3/t4 hybrid since a t3/t04e wont hit full boost until after 4000 rpm. I thought the t3/t04e was a hybrid, but I suppose not? I dont see any straight t3/t4's on cheapturbo.com which is where I've been looking.

Are any of you boosted 4th gen guys running t3/t04e's, and if so what kinda power do you make and in what range?

Next question.. I see the 4th gen PFI kits are running the TIAL 38 mm wastegate. I suppose this would also be appropriate for a 3rd gen but I'm not sure what the difference is between the .3BAR, .45BAR, and .6BAR - could someone clarify that?

1 bar = 12psi, right? Therefore would .3 bar be 4psi? .45 bar be a little under 6psi? And .6 bar would be a little over 7 psi? Does the wastegate directly regulate what psi you'll be running?

For the intercooler it looks like 24x6x3 is a pretty standard size, and one of the turbo VE guys is running that size. With the endtanks it's 30" long, but I'm not sure if I'd want/need 2.25" inlets/outlets, or 2.5" inlets/outlets. I assume 2.5" because all the pictures I'm seeing looks to be 2.5" piping. 2.5", right?

Given that and if the t3/, is ~$1200 a decent price for a Garret t3/t04e (any trim but at this point I'm leaning toward .60 trim and .63 a/r), Tial 38 mm wastegate (.3,.45, or .6 bar), and PWR 24x6x3 intercooler? Via cheapturbo.com

TIA for any help

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I don't know of anyone with a t3/t4 running a .81 turbine housing... Who's running that?

Well ball bearing T4's get that. My t3/t04e is on point with what your talking about

The problem you'll have the most is traction below ~30 MPH. I have 235/18's on the front of my ride and I can smoke 1st and 2nd gear. Even rolling starts, 1st gear can be worthless at times. And A/R on the turbine housing will determine LAG as well.

BTW what transmisson are you going with?


There will be some power loss with the lower compression. If your going to 8.5:1 compression, you could push 400 WHP DAILY on that. Why not leave it at stock compression @ 8 PSI. That WILL get you 300 WHP.


Who ever said you won't hit full boost until 4000 rpm is incorrect. It will also depend on you A/R of your exhuast and compressor housing.

I'll throw up a dyno sheet in my next post.


1 bar = 14.5 PSI

And yes the wastegate is what regulates how much boost you'll have. Unless you use an electronic boost controller or manual boost controller.

I'll try and answer the other questions tomorrow

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

Thanks for the reply bags..

Although I didnt necessarily mean to imply that he was running a t3/t4, I got the .81 a/r thing from Jay25:

"I got a T4 AR .81 . That AR is pretty freaking huge. On the Freeway from a 3rd gear run that thing rocks. It pulls like a run away train. Great thats what I want. From a 2nd gear pull it sucks. From a dead stop youll get owned by most of these small cars with small turbos. An AR between .58-.68 would be an ideal AR. I am going to go with a .58AR or a .6? what ever size they make. I am going to see what type of difference that will make on my T04E BB turbo. During the winter time is awesome. There is far more research I have to do to match up a perfect setup. I am a big time Freeway runner and track runner. I have to take this to the track and see what it does with the .81 AR.


A good coparison is Bags T3 .58 AR vs my T4 .81 AR. He woops my Azzzz from a dead stop. Car is very fast the minute he gets on it. Mad props to his setup which has instant boost the min he slams the pedal to the metal. On the freeway he will pull on me instantly once again, but I reel him in within 5 secs or less and keep on pulling."

So you're running a t3/t04e, what trim and a/r if you dont mind me asking? And yeah, I understand traction will be an issue. But I'd much rather try to deal with traction than having no low-end at all

I'm not sure why you ask what transmission I'm going with - but it'll just be the stock VE 5spd (lsd) transmission. I recently picked up a spare one that I'll get rebuilt and maybe cyro-treated depending on $$$ because I understand there's not really a whole lot else we could do.

I'm pretty intent on doing the ttz pistons and going to 8.5:1, because I have a spare engine that I'll be rebuilding, and so I might as well throw those in there when I do it. I know I can safely boost without going 8.5:1 but I'd just kinda like to if for nothing else just for peace of mind purposes.

I thought a wastegate was needed and wasnt aware it was either wastegate or manual/electric boost controller. I would like to run a manual boost controller, so I guess in which case I dont need a wastegate. Correct?

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Well here is my most recent dyno, the TQ is a little low due to heat soak from back to back runs.....

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Some are 3inch some are 2 inch and some are 2.25 and some are 2.50. 2.5 is FINE.

And the only real concern about size is efficency of the IC


cheapturbos should give you a better price on the turbo than that. Also, think about upgrading the Thrust bearing from 270 degress to 360 degress. And ceramic coating of the turbine is ~$70 and WELL worth that. It cuts underhood temps.

Mishap

You still need a wastegate. The boost controller works by bleeding boost off and keeping the wastegate closed to increase boost levels. Without a wastegate, you'll hit 20+ psi and the motor will likely let go before ever reaching redline.

As for IC outlet size, 2.5" is fine for most Maximas. Go up to 3" and you start having problems fitting it all and the bends get wider.

Bags, I think he's talking about the entire package of parts. Otherwise it's a very expensive T3/T04E.

Shadow runs a T3/60-1(T04S housing) w/ a .81 A/R. That's a bit bigger compressor than JAY25's T3/T04E 60-1 but smaller on the turbine side to lower spool a bit. You can get that turbo on cheapturbo.com for ~$750 polished.

Here's his last run. It was after 8-9 tuning runs w/ 10 minutes to cool off.

His car is automatic so it's hard to get the low rpm range w/o kicking a down shift. The turbo is spooling by 3000 and hits full boost by 3600 or so. Even so it's still a complete dog off the line b/c you can't pop a clutch and his TC stall is too low.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, Jay, kev,mardi,ramius are all running that size T4 turbine. Well, let me restate that, Mardi and Jay ARE going to the next size down in T4 turbine housings. And a T4 housing is bigger than a T3 housing.

t3/to4e 60 trim .58 on the turbine and either .60 OR .70 on the compressor



Trying to figure out if your looking at a 5spd or an auto. And I am NOT very sure about the 3rd gen trannies, but the stock 4th gens are holding up well @ under 350 whp.



Ok, I just wanted to let you know that people were doing fine on stock motors. Again, ALL 4th gens I am speaking of, but from my understanding the 3rd gens are built as well.. and sometimes better

My fault. You MUST have a wastegate. You can put a 6lb spring in the wastegate and get 6lbs of boost. IF you ADD a boost controller you can adjust the boost HIGHER without changing the wastegate spring.

Sorry about the confusion

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I think your right.. I am still baked from yesterday.. did you make it out?



And I think you ment ME..lol

Thanks for the assist justin

Mishap

oh, i meant T4/60-1 on Jay25's car. His compressor is very similar to the one on Shadow's car but w/o the 4" housing. The plot for your car definitely shows how much low end the T3/T04E you have gives. It's spooling a good bit earlier than Shadow's car. Also are you running the MEVI on that run? I've never seen a turbo max push more hp than torque w/o a MEVI.

Yeah, I was around at the SELOC thing just sitting under tents and checking out the RB powered 240SX's w/ Eric. I was driving Jeff's wife's turbo Integra.

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

Hmm thanks for all the info guys.

I suppose now I'm more unsure as to what turbo I think I'd like to go with. lol

I guess I still dont fully understand how the a/r of each housing affects performance. Especially when there's a t3 side and at t4 side, does one necessarily affect different areas of the powerband?

A turbo VE guy suggested I run a .82 T3 a/r turbine housing instead of the .63, with a .58 T4 side. I ask you 4th gen guys because the VE and VQ are very similar in engine power and stock powerband etc.

And bags, the VE 5spd transmissions are widely considered by far the strongest of the 3rd gen bunch. They're at least on par with the 4th gen trannies which seem to hold up fine with boost for the most part. A few boosted VG guys even 'upgrade' to VE 5spd transmissions since they bolt up to the block

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Nope, just did one pull without the fan in front of the car, did a 2nd pull 1 min later with the fan.

That's the only one like that. I have another dyno, from batlgnds dyno day where TQ was higher than HP