Requin6

iTrader: (36)

alrighty i got the ambition to step my setup up. i have said that i am done spending money no this car, but you all know how that goes. i picked up a Z32 MAF, 2.87 pulley, and got my JWT reprogrammed. i figured the extra power for ~$300 was a deal i couldnt look passed.

mid-week i put the re-prog JWT chip in and the Z32. the car feels like i didnt change anything...so that is just what i was looking for.

i spent saturday pulling the blower. I 'would' have had the blower out and in and ready to drive in about 2.5-3.0 hours, but i hit a snag. Everything came out smooth up until it was time to get the 3.125 pulley off the blower. Even with anti-seize on the pulley shaft bolt it was a mother to get off. after ****ing around with it...i finally put the torch on it, and hit it with the impact wrench. this was the last ditch effort as i did not want to strip the head on that allen bolt. i was afraid the torque of the impact wrench even on the lowest setting would twist that head into a mess. luckily it broke loose, and all is well with that. 2-arm Pulley puller took the 3.125 right off.

got the 2.87 on and everything buttoned up in the car. i used the goodyear gatorback (6PK1755 - 4060690). Luckily a new auto parts store opened up right near my house and they carry the gatorbacks. no one in my town stocks them or any other neighboring town for that matter. so this worked out nicely.

start it up everything is fine...take it out for a drive. it definately has more kick. from what i can see it hits 13 psi. i am really busy watching the road, listening, and watching the tach.

But i have a question....at around 6.7k+rpms about 75% of the time (mostly in 2nd and 3rd gear) i get a strange noise. now i have never heard detonation on my car before, but i have others...and this doesnt sound like that (thankfully) but i cant rule that out. its like a ticking/sheering noise. hard to describe. but i was wondering what a belt slipping at that RPM would sound like. it does feel like there is a small hesitation in the 5.5k+ range, so the belt slipping theory would make sense. i hope that in a couple days after the belt breaks-in and i re-tighten it just goes away.

but i am just looking for some other possibilities as to what it may be. i have a couple ideas...

belt slip
detontation
injectors being maxed (if they even make a sound when being fully taxed)
blower reaching its rev max
valvetrain

any input or discussion would be greatly appreciated. like i said hopefully this just works itself out once the belt is broken in and re-tightened. thanks.

--Paul

turbomax97

iTrader: (6)

doesnt sound like a belt issue to me - especially with the ticking sound.

Detonation sounds more like.... if you've flooded your engine with fuel before and ran too rich

injectors dont make a sound when they max out either that would be ticking slow enough to even tell it was even a tick anymore - if that makes sense - hope this rules some things out for ya

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Throw in some high octane and see if it goes away.

370cc injectors?

Requin6

iTrader: (36)

the belt was a little loose, nothing out of the ordinary. i tightened it back up, took it out for a ride...no difference. still made the noise at 6.5k. the best way to describe it is like a very quick rapid slashing sound.

above 5k isnt as potent as i thought it would be and it may even not be as powerful as when i had the 3.125 on. it almost feels like my VI isnt opening. i checked the VI and it seems to be fine. it just seems sluggish on the top end.

it might be possible that the 370s are reaching their max above 6k.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Get a dyno?

Requin6

iTrader: (36)

talked with matt...

i might not be getting spark up top with my BKR6E11's

gonna throw a set of BKR6E's and see how it likes the smaller gap. its about that time to change them anyhow.

Jason R

iTrader: (39)

nice upgrades Paul. hope you get that sound worked out soon and maybe some new 1/4 times?

Requin6

iTrader: (36)

ok BKR6E's didnt help.

i am now pretty sure this sound is detonation.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Marbles in a metal can, right?

Go find some 100-octane fuel once you're about empty and dump in a couple gallons and try again.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Or increase your base idle fuel pressure and see if it detonates less.

mighteatyou

????????/ ???????/

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Is the ECU reprogrammed for 13 PSI?

Does it ONLY do it in boost?

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

just to rule out detonation of any kind....go grab some 100 octane and see if that fixes anything....then I would stop your car, pop your hood, and rev your engine using the throttle cable....will be loud, but hopefully you can rule it out to a certain area that the sound is originating from...

but nice upgrade paul....what does it feel like so far? slower in top end than with the 3.125? but you are reaching 13/14 psi at peak? go dyno and get a afr graph just to make sure everything is okay, then tune base psi if needed...

Requin6

iTrader: (36)

ecu is re-programmed for the Z32 MAF and 370 injectors.

previous tune was for A32 MAf and 370 injectors.

and yes it only does it above 6k rpms. no other time. it feels really good until about 5k, then it sort of flattens out and then the noise in the upper upper rpms.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

To adjust the base FP on a JWT car with out a way to compensate ( e-manage ) is a bad idea, it defeats the purpouse.

Alex, perhaps you can back my math up here. 370s @43.5psi .55bsfc 100%ds can support ~384 crank HP max or ~ 327whp (15%DT loss) Even with a 1:1 boost ref FPR the boost pressure in the intake plenum negates the increased fuel pressure flowing out of the injectors. IMHO Paul is past or very near 100% DS and this is the issue.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

One idea is to have JWT do a 50.7psi (3.5) bar fuel pressure program. This should support 416bhp/354whp. This set up will still be on the 95%ds range, best guestimate. Pauls car has allways been a factory freak anyway and produces HP levels greater than most with the same mods. W all know the motor can take the power it just needs fuel. I'm dam sure its not detonating from timing its from leanness, JWT has allways been conservative on the timing.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Compensate for what, Matt?

I've played around quite a bit with fuel pressure on my JWT car and found it behaves no differently than with a car with the oem ecu. That is, you can move the afr at WOT up or down by adjusting base fuel pressure, or you can move the afr at higher rpm with an adjustable fmu.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

The JWT ECU won't know the difference. The additional fuel pressure with JWTs static injector pulse width will richen the AFR curve throughout the RPM band.

Yes, that is my opinion also. He is lean because his injectors are going static around 5000rpm, but without a dyno I don't know what he's laying down. A "high octane" test is a tell-tale test that shows your timing is too advanced for the octane of choice or that your AFR is too lean.

IMO, he needs to increase his base fuel pressure using his already installed AEM FPR or throw back in his FMU with a 4:1 disc.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I highly recommend the Cartech fmu.

iansw

iTrader: (7)

I'm running the same setup but without the Z32 MAF and no issues except for some leanness up top (but no detonation).

Was planning on getting the Z32 Program to fix the leanness because my problem is my A32 AMF is reaching 5v at 6000RPM, causing me to lean out from 6k-7200.

Now I'm second guessing if I should go with the Z32 MAF.
And the Cartech didn't work for me at all. But I THINK my Cartech is busted.
Need to get around to buying a rebuild kit for it.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Looking at your curve, you're outflowing your MAF at ~5500rpm or 290whp, so your injectors are at 100% and your AFR starts heading north.

You 300+whp guys need to stop screwing around with 370cc injectors and get bigger injectors.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Unless your ECU is programed for the new FP, why ghetto it when their is a solid solution? JWT tunes to specific parameters, if you change those you change it all.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I just like to tinker. What's the fun of having JWT do it all for you?

Prodeje79

what is your RPM limit?

Is it possible to get too much boost? Does the BOV protect you if it does get too much boost?

matty

iTrader: (54)

Nah the BOV will stay shut while boosting so that has no bearing on it....and too much boost ?? nah, but there needs to be fuel there to back that boost up


So basically if you ever want to go to a 2.87" pulley in the future the only possible solution now is to go with larger injectors (555's) and program the ECU for that as well...
This was my toss up when I sent in my ECU to JWT...I wanted to decide between 370's and 555's...Now Im second guessing my 370cc choice
so down the road when you want a 2.87", you wont run into problem ??
370's are maxed out at 3.125" ??

-matt

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Matt, it's only a $100 fee to upgrade to the 555cc chip later, correct?

I mean JWT already socketed the ECU board, so all they do is send you a PROM and you pop out the old one and plug in the new one IIRC.

I wouldn't worry about that too much.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Yup $100 plus shipping

matty

iTrader: (54)

I think im safe to go with the 370's and stick with the 3.125....later down the road maybe next year ill go to a 3" pulley...

-matt

mighteatyou

Well i definatly see a problem i want too mention quick.

JWT told me specifically when i ordered the same setup. That I should NOT buy a fpr because that would drastically effect the tunning of the jwt ect, the tunned ecu takes the place of the FPR and the FMU, you wont need either of them to run what you have. Maybe just try getting rid of that FPR and doing the fine tune adjustments that the ECU does not cover with an SAFC.

i dunno for sure im just going on all my research too this point. My supercharger is on its way with all of the following you are using + ill have the 555cc nismo injectors..... So thats the advice jwt told me, so i figured id let you know

ALSO the PSI you put out on the supercharger has NOTHING too do with the JWT program. The jwt ECU will adjust for any PSI. Thats coming from the JWT tech himself.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Again, there is NO WAY the JWT ECU can tell during WOT if you have a FPR or FMU playing with fuel pressure. During closed-loop 02-sensor feedback, you might have the ECU fighting you, but that's not the conditions we are talking about here.

Using any AFC, ie Apexi SAFC, Fields Hyper R, etc. with the JWT is not a great idea, since it conditions MAF voltage to indirectly influence fuel addition/subtraction HOWEVER that also affects timing.

Several OBD logs I've viewed show that as MAF voltage increases, so does timing. So, if you are adding fuel with an AFC, you are also adding timing, which could be DANGEROUS during WOT at lean AFRs. That is what JWT is so adamant about. They also don't care for boost regulated fuel pressure risers, since their AFR tuning would be affected depending on how fast/slow fuel pressure changes. However, adding a bit more fuel pressure just "scales" down the AFR a bit lower.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

You have to run a 1:1 FPR with the JWT set up to the FP 1psi per 1psi of boost, otherwise the fuel flow out of the injectors is overcome by the boost pressure in the intake manifold and you loose fuel flow from the injectors.

If he is at 100% DS up their and he raises the fuel pressure he may be able to get the top end closer to being tuned. BUT everything else below this will suffer from being rich, so the gains in the top end will be negated by the loss in the low/mid range. Either get the 3.5bar chip or get larger injectors w/new chip. The 3.5bar chip will could possibally give enough romm for the current set up, but its a gamble.

slimer

iTrader: (13)

it sounds like the cartech would alleviate his problems

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

It would, but it would create another, being rich in the low/mid rpms under boost. Sure you could ghetto it with an AFC and ball park it, but boost pressure at a particullar RPM will change with air temp and baro pressure. Truley, if the JWT did the trick on the old set up and the 370cc injectors are maxed, its a no brainer here guys.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

I wouldn't use a SAFC to tune, I know jwt is careful with their timing, but he is already leaning out up top...so throwing more timing....without knowing how much more fuel he needs would be kinda scary....

the cartech would cause low end/mid range loss....but then again if paul turns out to only be running a little rich than none of this is an issue....he can use whatever he wants to up the FP a little (we are talking tiny amounts here if he really isn't running that lean) I would say the cheapest solution would be to use the adj. fpr already on there and just bump it up a tiny bit....still go to the dyno of course for more accuracy than just feeling it! using a safc on the other hand just messes with the maf voltages...I don't know when the Z32 maf maxes out though....so it might still be a viable option to richening things up...up top....

you could prolly avoid getting new injectors and going through the hassle of install with anyone of these things including the jwt reprogram with 3.5 bar program...although, you just got your ecu back from jwt, so I don't know if you wanna go through that again...

on a side note, i thought most Z guys say that the 370's max out with stock FP around 370whp....which is why they always use as a rule the # of cc's is the # of wheel hp you can run b4 100%DC....???

Requin6

iTrader: (36)

ok ran some more tests...

upped the FP to 50psi at idle. naturely the car was a dog in the low to mid...up after 5k...still the hesitation. at 6.5 like clockwork...the noise.

after i got it back, i began to reflect on the situation...so other ideas popped into my head. as i was turning the FP back down to 34 i noticed that the FP at idle was reading 40, and not the 50 i set it at.

and as i started to turn it down the needle on the FP gauge was acting a bit weird. it was fluctuating up and down while it was set in the 40-50 range, but once i got it below 40 it stopped. with it set at 50 and lightly reving it by flippnig the throttle lever the FP wasnt too stable on the way down after letting off. that could jsut be from pumping so much at idle that is was trying to settle, but who knows.

another thing got me thinking...this sound is very similar to my BOV sound. like a slashing/whisping noise. maybe my BOV is acting up. maybe in the top end above 5k its getting screwey.

maybe my fuel pump isnt pushing enough. who knows.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

so if you were to rev your engine with the throttle cable under the hood, and put your head around the BOV....do you hear something wrong?

do you have an egt gauge or wideband? that would tell you right away if you are having afr issues...

could it be your blower...overspinning it? I know others are running it that high 7200rpm with that pulley...but you mentioned the previous owner of your S/C was running the 2.67 pulley for the longest....

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

The bearings were replaced shortly before he bought it and I had a revlimit of 6500,

DonSupreme

iTrader: (1)

Requin only has a boost guage, and he doesn't seem to care for it. The car looks like stock 96 Se maxima from the outside.

matty

iTrader: (54)

Figure it out yet paul ?? I havent seen you on AIM at all

-matt