A lot of WHP but FWD
A lot of WHP but FWD
While im putting this kit otgether I figured ill keep y self busy and ask a few questions here and there. Well Ive told a couple of my friends of my new setup that im working on t4/60-1 that i wanna do 400+whp with. And the first thing they all say is " how are you gonna put down that much hp on a front wheel drive car, youll be spinning wheels all day long" NOw i said that im gonna get wider wheels and tires, but the guys that are boosted on the forums here, how do you put down all that power and actually keep her going and not squeeling?
You are gonna have big problems holding that power on the street. The car will be fun from a roll, but all of 1st and most of second will be useless on the street. Modulating the throttle will be your best friend. Or you can spend the money on a quality boost controller like an AVC-R that will let you have gear specific boost. Like only 6lbs in 1st, 10lbs in second, 13lbs in 3rd.....
Sticky street tires will help but it won't solve the problem
Sticky street tires will help but it won't solve the problem
Limited slip is basically useless for straightline acceleration. Tires are going to be the best thing you can do. Royal there are much stickier street tires out there than the KDW, I wouldn't bother with those.
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Limited slip is basically useless for straightline acceleration. Tires are going to be the best thing you can do. Royal there are much stickier street tires out there than the KDW, I wouldn't bother with those.
Quaife ATB, grippy clutch that you can modulate, firm motor mounts, aftermarket lowering springs, firm rear struts/soft front struts, big sticky tires, a bit of turbo lag, and good skill and self control from full throttle in the lower gears, you should hang in 1st and 2nd and walk in 3rd and 4th.
26" MT ET Drags are your friend! 
Also, it is FWD so it's fun/annoying, but not scary, when it spins.
What is scary, is torque steer in 4th gear that will pull you across lanes.
Also, a good&simple boost controller that can ramp up to boost at a certain mph is helpful (I suggest avcD... which you'll have to find used, because they no longer make it.) I'd suggest setting it to start low and increase boost till 60mph on street, and at the track reverse that by turning boost up until 60mph - for more gain so it would not lag coming out of the hole on slicks. (lower gears are laggier/harder to spool due to less load)
apexi AVCD:
Also, it is FWD so it's fun/annoying, but not scary, when it spins.
What is scary, is torque steer in 4th gear that will pull you across lanes.
Also, a good&simple boost controller that can ramp up to boost at a certain mph is helpful (I suggest avcD... which you'll have to find used, because they no longer make it.) I'd suggest setting it to start low and increase boost till 60mph on street, and at the track reverse that by turning boost up until 60mph - for more gain so it would not lag coming out of the hole on slicks. (lower gears are laggier/harder to spool due to less load)
apexi AVCD:
Originally Posted by Royal_T
I understand that the MT ET Drags are good but what are some good sticky street tires?
BFG Drag radials are a pretty good tire for running around on. People are getting very good results from the MT drag radials, better than bfg dr's.
MT ET Drag:
MT ET Street:
MT DR:
BFG DR:
Originally Posted by Royal_T
I understand that the MT ET Drags are good but what are some good sticky street tires?
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 521
slimer,
sounds good, hopefully my car should be done by then.
dont forget that i'm going to be running 19' volk racing SF challenges, so i need something that will fit that. I see you mentioned the Toyo T1-S, I heard good things about them but i also heard that the BF Goodrich g-force T/A KDW were alot better.any input on that.
sounds good, hopefully my car should be done by then.
dont forget that i'm going to be running 19' volk racing SF challenges, so i need something that will fit that. I see you mentioned the Toyo T1-S, I heard good things about them but i also heard that the BF Goodrich g-force T/A KDW were alot better.any input on that.
Originally Posted by MaxInProgress
While im putting this kit otgether I figured ill keep y self busy and ask a few questions here and there. Well Ive told a couple of my friends of my new setup that im working on t4/60-1 that i wanna do 400+whp with. And the first thing they all say is " how are you gonna put down that much hp on a front wheel drive car, youll be spinning wheels all day long" NOw i said that im gonna get wider wheels and tires, but the guys that are boosted on the forums here, how do you put down all that power and actually keep her going and not squeeling?
Wider wheels and tires will not help you get the traction you are looking for. They only change the contact patch shape...not the total area of the contact patch. The initial bite you get will be better, but it will be a shallow patch, and you'll be spinning out again once you get to the torque peak.
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Limited slip is basically useless for straightline acceleration. Tires are going to be the best thing you can do. Royal there are much stickier street tires out there than the KDW, I wouldn't bother with those.
That would be true if the two half shafts were of equal length. However, the Maxima's are not equal length. A LSD would benefit any FWD vehicle with unequal length drive shafts...
With a T4, the lag will help some w/ traction. But once it hits full boost, it will still spin. So throttle modulation is the only real way to manage it, that and stickier tires.
LSD will help, but not as much as some people think. I'm the one they're talking about that used to have them made, it did make a difference but it still spins a lot. The LSD's Stillen carries are basically the same ones that I used to get made. Theirs just aren't cryo treated. On a straight line launch, especially at the track, most of the time the both wheels will have traction. The LSD is invaluable for cornering though. I used to spin the inside tire really bad on hard low speed corners, but the car is much better now.
My car has the LSD and PR motor mounts, and it's hard to control the spin in 1st and 2nd gear. At the track, it's not so bad since the surface is better prepared, but on the street, I don't even bother with flooring it off the line, it spins too much. The PR motor mounts helped a lot with the wheel hop problems I used to have. I have a T3/60-1 and w/ the auto, I can usually launch w/ ~1psi, but I stopped doing that because it resulted in more spin and worse 60 fts.
LSD will help, but not as much as some people think. I'm the one they're talking about that used to have them made, it did make a difference but it still spins a lot. The LSD's Stillen carries are basically the same ones that I used to get made. Theirs just aren't cryo treated. On a straight line launch, especially at the track, most of the time the both wheels will have traction. The LSD is invaluable for cornering though. I used to spin the inside tire really bad on hard low speed corners, but the car is much better now.
My car has the LSD and PR motor mounts, and it's hard to control the spin in 1st and 2nd gear. At the track, it's not so bad since the surface is better prepared, but on the street, I don't even bother with flooring it off the line, it spins too much. The PR motor mounts helped a lot with the wheel hop problems I used to have. I have a T3/60-1 and w/ the auto, I can usually launch w/ ~1psi, but I stopped doing that because it resulted in more spin and worse 60 fts.
Originally Posted by MaxInProgress
While im putting this kit otgether I figured ill keep y self busy and ask a few questions here and there. Well Ive told a couple of my friends of my new setup that im working on t4/60-1 that i wanna do 400+whp with. And the first thing they all say is " how are you gonna put down that much hp on a front wheel drive car, youll be spinning wheels all day long" NOw i said that im gonna get wider wheels and tires, but the guys that are boosted on the forums here, how do you put down all that power and actually keep her going and not squeeling?
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,094
From: Columbus, OH
Originally Posted by hlh0501
ET Streets are legal, but I still wouldn't run them daily or in the rain etc.
I am really interested in a high performance summer tire that can handle dry and wet well to go on my RX7 rims.
I read the tire rack and other sites reviews, bit I would rather hear from a trusted maxima source.
That Dunlop SP Sport Maxx looked good against the S03s. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...sport_maxx.jsp
I am going to proably have a hard time finding tires for these rx7 rims though?
I am sure not many people visit the tire forum, let alone people with rx7 rims (or pppl that used ot have them). Please feel free to chime in on my thread: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=397643
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Shadow
With a T4, the lag will help some w/ traction. But once it hits full boost, it will still spin. So throttle modulation is the only real way to manage it, that and stickier tires.
LSD will help, but not as much as some people think. I'm the one they're talking about that used to have them made, it did make a difference but it still spins a lot. The LSD's Stillen carries are basically the same ones that I used to get made. Theirs just aren't cryo treated. On a straight line launch, especially at the track, most of the time the both wheels will have traction. The LSD is invaluable for cornering though. I used to spin the inside tire really bad on hard low speed corners, but the car is much better now.
My car has the LSD and PR motor mounts, and it's hard to control the spin in 1st and 2nd gear. At the track, it's not so bad since the surface is better prepared, but on the street, I don't even bother with flooring it off the line, it spins too much. The PR motor mounts helped a lot with the wheel hop problems I used to have. I have a T3/60-1 and w/ the auto, I can usually launch w/ ~1psi, but I stopped doing that because it resulted in more spin and worse 60 fts.
LSD will help, but not as much as some people think. I'm the one they're talking about that used to have them made, it did make a difference but it still spins a lot. The LSD's Stillen carries are basically the same ones that I used to get made. Theirs just aren't cryo treated. On a straight line launch, especially at the track, most of the time the both wheels will have traction. The LSD is invaluable for cornering though. I used to spin the inside tire really bad on hard low speed corners, but the car is much better now.
My car has the LSD and PR motor mounts, and it's hard to control the spin in 1st and 2nd gear. At the track, it's not so bad since the surface is better prepared, but on the street, I don't even bother with flooring it off the line, it spins too much. The PR motor mounts helped a lot with the wheel hop problems I used to have. I have a T3/60-1 and w/ the auto, I can usually launch w/ ~1psi, but I stopped doing that because it resulted in more spin and worse 60 fts.
Shadow,
do you'll still make LSD or should i just go with the stillen LSD?
At the current moment, I do not make it. The company that made them for me went out of business. The actual person there making the LSD's now works for me, so in a few months I may be making them again, it's all dependent on whether I get the 3 axis CNC I've been looking at.
To be honest, if you're thinking about the Stillen, get the Phantom Grip. If you have a competent shop to install it, or can do it yourself. That's all their unit is, a shop is installing a PG unit into a factory core. And essentially that's all the LSD we did was. We used a stock diff as the core, and the actual clamping unit is the same as the PG, but we tweaked a few things and then cryo treated it all. If I reintroduce it, there are some more changes I'd like to implement to make it stronger (when there's a lifetime warranty, it's in my best interest to make them as strong as possible).
To be honest, if you're thinking about the Stillen, get the Phantom Grip. If you have a competent shop to install it, or can do it yourself. That's all their unit is, a shop is installing a PG unit into a factory core. And essentially that's all the LSD we did was. We used a stock diff as the core, and the actual clamping unit is the same as the PG, but we tweaked a few things and then cryo treated it all. If I reintroduce it, there are some more changes I'd like to implement to make it stronger (when there's a lifetime warranty, it's in my best interest to make them as strong as possible).
Originally Posted by Royal_T
Shadow,
do you'll still make LSD or should i just go with the stillen LSD?
do you'll still make LSD or should i just go with the stillen LSD?
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
That would be true if the two half shafts were of equal length. However, the Maxima's are not equal length. A LSD would benefit any FWD vehicle with unequal length drive shafts...
Respectfully disagree. No one with a limited slip differential is cutting any better 60' times than those without them. Limited slip would be of benefit if you have a problem with spinning a single tire on launch, but that is not the problem maximas encounter unless they fail to get both tires dry when coming out of the waterbox, in which case it could benefit. But you'd still not cut a decent 60' in such a scenario. I'd challenge anyone to show me a maxima cutting consistently better 60' times after the install of a limited slip (be it quaife ATB, VLSD, HLSD, or otherwise) as compared to before having the LSD. It simply makes no noticeable difference. Even with more than 400 to the wheels, I had no trouble with spinning one tire. First time at the track with the car even. It's just not an issue unless there is some uncommon factor, such as moisture on one tire, or an uneven launch surface, etc.
Unequal driveshaft length is an issue because of the different kingpin angles it introduces etc. I posted some good descriptions of this in aother thread about torque steer.
60's maybe not so much, but for sure it will help 330'.
Any the guys with clutch type LSD's are SOL once the diff pack gets hot. The helical LSD is where its at, like the Quaife and 6spd LSD.
Any the guys with clutch type LSD's are SOL once the diff pack gets hot. The helical LSD is where its at, like the Quaife and 6spd LSD.
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Respectfully disagree. No one with a limited slip differential is cutting any better 60' times than those without them. Limited slip would be of benefit if you have a problem with spinning a single tire on launch, but that is not the problem maximas encounter unless they fail to get both tires dry when coming out of the waterbox, in which case it could benefit. But you'd still not cut a decent 60' in such a scenario. I'd challenge anyone to show me a maxima cutting consistently better 60' times after the install of a limited slip (be it quaife ATB, VLSD, HLSD, or otherwise) as compared to before having the LSD. It simply makes no noticeable difference. Even with more than 400 to the wheels, I had no trouble with spinning one tire. First time at the track with the car even. It's just not an issue unless there is some uncommon factor, such as moisture on one tire, or an uneven launch surface, etc.
Unequal driveshaft length is an issue because of the different kingpin angles it introduces etc. I posted some good descriptions of this in aother thread about torque steer.
Unequal driveshaft length is an issue because of the different kingpin angles it introduces etc. I posted some good descriptions of this in aother thread about torque steer.
You can respectfully disagree all you want, but the laws of physics agree with me. Power will always take the path of least resistance. With no limited slip differential, the shorter of the two shafts will receive more power than the longer one, thereby creating a power bias to whatever side has said shorter shaft. Also, the open differential will apply more power to whichever shaft/wheel is using the most, causing severe wheelspin. These are facts, and they are irrefutable. Couple all that to the fact that FWD cars loose traction when launched hard (unless you build a specific chassis to combat that, and no Maxima has that chassis) due to weight transfer, and you have that wonderful recipe that we are usually stuck with. Spinning tires and a 2.3-2.4 second 60' time...
Irrefutable you say? Show me the proof. I agree that in theory it should be the case, however the difference is so negligable as to not even be visible on timeslips. Show me a single maxima with a limited slip differential cutting significantly better times than a maxima with an open differential. Until then I stick by my statement that the difference is so minute as to not even be measureable. I say this from experience, not based on esoteric theory.
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Irrefutable you say? Show me the proof. I agree that in theory it should be the case, however the difference is so negligable as to not even be visible on timeslips. Show me a single maxima with a limited slip differential cutting significantly better times than a maxima with an open differential. Until then I stick by my statement that the difference is so minute as to not even be measureable. I say this from experience, not based on esoteric theory.
What you say Neal has been my findings also. I had LSD in both my 4th Gen's and an open diff for a while in the 95 until I changed it and 60' times were exactly the same, ie 1.7x.
Now with the 2k2 I get the same 1.7x and it has an open diff.
Maybe with street tires it could be different but I don't run street tires so I'll never find out.
Originally Posted by spanishrice
I dont know but my maxima will spin one tire all the time. I dont have nearly the power your guys are making.
You do that by turning the wheels from lock to lock slowly and then the tire that is not spinning will start as well. I wish I had a video that showed it, I do it every burnout.
However on the street I do 2 black marks most of the time when I have tried it.
Anybody that thinks about running DR's on the street is crazy. Those have no sidewalls to speak of. I've heard some real horror storries of people that use them as daily tires.
Now, R compound tires is a different story. That is what I'm keen on. Any thoughts? Does the compound help significantly for straight line or is it mainly a cornering benefit?
Now, R compound tires is a different story. That is what I'm keen on. Any thoughts? Does the compound help significantly for straight line or is it mainly a cornering benefit?
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