after rebuild cant get car to crank or stay running
10-03-2005, 06:05 PM
#1
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after rebuild cant get car to crank or stay running
I have a 3rd gen with the vg30. Ok well I did a rebuild on my motor and put it back in. I have everything hooked up and tryed to crank it and it started and had a real low idle like 400 to 500 rpms, and cut off after like 5 to 10 seconds. Then will not start back. Ok before I had 259cc injectors with the stock maf and safc controller. Ok I went to 370cc injectors and installed a areomotivePR. The 370cc are A bit over 50% larger than stock injectors. STOCK IS 180CC. I have the fuel pressure set at 28psi and the safc turn down 50%. But My plugs still seem to be fowled out. I have the z32 maf installed too. well it still wont crank. I seen it was throwing code 12 (Maf) so i went back to the stock maf And cleaned the plugs off and it still wont stay running and it will only crank like once and then will not crank again for a while. SO what eles can I check. When it does crank it will not run for more than 4to 5 seconds, and runs with a low idle.
10-03-2005, 06:13 PM
#2
double check your settings on the s-afc. if you changed the settings to handle the Z32 maf but didn't change them back for the stock maf then it won't start up and vise versa. i'd probably check that first.
if that doesn't do it i'd make sure the wiring is still connected good. let me know if that doesn't work out.
if that doesn't do it i'd make sure the wiring is still connected good. let me know if that doesn't work out.
10-03-2005, 06:55 PM
#3
You might need to replace your plugs as well depending on how fouled they have become. I fouled up a set of iridium plugs and no matter how much I cleaned them, the car would not idle properly with them installed.
10-04-2005, 02:53 AM
#8
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No we had some problems with the chip and Scott is currently working on getting the ecu to work, so to get mine running in the mean time im trying to tune it manualy with the safc. Witch Mark said it should work but just cant get it right and need some help or advice
10-04-2005, 06:37 AM
#9
you need to look at your numbers again.
the Z32 MAF will allow much more airflow for the same voltage output as the stock MAF.
so will the fuel injectors..
thus, if you simply plug them all in and don't screw with your SAFC, you actually come out not too far off of what you should be using the stock settings.
you will still have to tune, but it sounds to me like you've got too many things working against you right now.
set fuel pressure back up to stock, turn the SAFC back to normal, and run the Z32 MAF with the 370 injectors and see what happens.
and pull out those fouled plugs and clean them.
the Z32 MAF will allow much more airflow for the same voltage output as the stock MAF.
so will the fuel injectors..
thus, if you simply plug them all in and don't screw with your SAFC, you actually come out not too far off of what you should be using the stock settings.
you will still have to tune, but it sounds to me like you've got too many things working against you right now.
set fuel pressure back up to stock, turn the SAFC back to normal, and run the Z32 MAF with the 370 injectors and see what happens.
and pull out those fouled plugs and clean them.
10-04-2005, 06:59 AM
#10
the plugs are wet with gas...timing issue? distributor put back in correctly right?
let's say everything is back to the stock set up for the exception for 370CC (using stock MAF) the motor should at least run...very rich but it should run.
let's say everything is back to the stock set up for the exception for 370CC (using stock MAF) the motor should at least run...very rich but it should run.
10-04-2005, 07:28 AM
#11
Big vacuum leak? Bad injectors?
Earlier this year, I had horrible issues with starting the car. Same symptoms as yours, car would start, but then die out within 5-10 seconds. Turns out I had a bad injector that was leaking. That injector made the car very, very hard to start, and I had to crank it so much that it was fouling the plugs. Then when it did start, the vacuum leak made the car cut out within 10 seconds or so unless I stayed on the gas.
Earlier this year, I had horrible issues with starting the car. Same symptoms as yours, car would start, but then die out within 5-10 seconds. Turns out I had a bad injector that was leaking. That injector made the car very, very hard to start, and I had to crank it so much that it was fouling the plugs. Then when it did start, the vacuum leak made the car cut out within 10 seconds or so unless I stayed on the gas.
10-04-2005, 02:14 PM
#12
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It's got to be somthing basic.
Confirm TDC on #1cyl and check dist. rotor position.
Is it pointing to #1 inside the cap?
Good spark... to all cyl?
No fire = wet plugs
Check injector pulse when cranking.. good? to all cyl? (#2 buried under plenum)
Consistant pulse? or look strange?
Just to cut down on things your trying to elimnate, I can go up or down 20-30psi from where it's set now(28psi) and have very little idle change. Meaning it's not critical to be exactly on target when starting/idling in the ball park would get it done.
If all the plugs are wet it sounds like a spark or ground problem.. Possibly a MAF or vaccume problem if it's sucking air somewhere. A small vaccume leak causes all kinds of hell a big one is terrible. If the MAF can't read it... it just won't work.
Let us know how it go's,
Scott~
Confirm TDC on #1cyl and check dist. rotor position.
Is it pointing to #1 inside the cap?
Good spark... to all cyl?
No fire = wet plugs
Check injector pulse when cranking.. good? to all cyl? (#2 buried under plenum)
Consistant pulse? or look strange?
Just to cut down on things your trying to elimnate, I can go up or down 20-30psi from where it's set now(28psi) and have very little idle change. Meaning it's not critical to be exactly on target when starting/idling in the ball park would get it done.
If all the plugs are wet it sounds like a spark or ground problem.. Possibly a MAF or vaccume problem if it's sucking air somewhere. A small vaccume leak causes all kinds of hell a big one is terrible. If the MAF can't read it... it just won't work.
Let us know how it go's,
Scott~
10-05-2005, 04:18 PM
#13
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ok Guys got some of it figured out. Re set the timing and got it to crank and run it will stay running. But its running pig rich. Im using the stock airflow rught now. im going out in a minute and use the z32 maf. Ok the egr whole on the intake is open with no egr to cover it so it runs with a high idle intill you take your finger to cover it and then the car seems to want to die out for some reason. ill let you know what happens later
10-05-2005, 08:00 PM
#14
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ok got the Maf corrected with some wiring issue. Well it idel and stay running,but it spits backfires and is shooting small flames out of the downpipe. It seems to be missing around 2500 rpms too and then will rev up slighty. I have most of the safc settings around neg 50% intill around 4000rpms then down to -40% ( stock for my 3rd gen is 180cc and im using 370cc). Im using the Z32 and fpr is set at about 28psi.
10-06-2005, 12:25 PM
#15
Did you have this exact same setup before the rebuild or did you change something during the process? I agree with Boosted Maxima that it is probably something basic. If you have an EGT gauge, how do your EGT's now compare with those you had before (assuming you are running the same setup)? I would check timing, change plugs and check for leaks and then take it from there.
10-06-2005, 01:06 PM
#16
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With out the EGR (or block off plate) on the intake plenum it is a big vaccume leak that the MAF can't "see" because it's after the MAF. Make a sheet metal plate to cover it.
You can then set your idle with the set screw in the top of the IAC.
Then set your Ign. timing to stock for now.. it'll at least be driveable.
If your running open downpipe expect some excess fuel to ignite and cause flames. The missing sounds like too far advanced Ign. timeing.
Sounds like your getting closer...
~Scott
You can then set your idle with the set screw in the top of the IAC.
Then set your Ign. timing to stock for now.. it'll at least be driveable.
If your running open downpipe expect some excess fuel to ignite and cause flames. The missing sounds like too far advanced Ign. timeing.
Sounds like your getting closer...
~Scott
10-06-2005, 02:50 PM
#17
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ok kool got the plate made and got new plugs goint out to try it now and will let you know.
Cbass I did not have this set up before the rebuild I had a tad bit smaller injectors.
Cbass I did not have this set up before the rebuild I had a tad bit smaller injectors.
10-06-2005, 03:18 PM
#18
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ok well it wont take the gas. When you try to rev it it wont to dye out then it will just rev up slowly I have not had it over 4000rmps yet. I have about 10mg on the vacum gauge too. before it was like 20mg It is a steady needle. SO what eles may i check.
10-06-2005, 04:42 PM
#19
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ok I got this question I got the distributor to line up. But im not sure when I set the timing belt did I have it on compression stroke or not. If I did not have it on compression stoke and had it on exhaust stoke when I set the timing belt what would happen and how would it run
10-06-2005, 05:12 PM
#20
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if you put the timing belt on with the cams and the crank lined up with marks on the block it will work. that will align everything correctly. before the cams are turning the crank doesnt know the differance between and intake stroke and an exhaust stroke. it is possible that you could be a tooth off on one or both of the cams however. Good luck. get that puppy boostin
10-06-2005, 07:04 PM
#22
take out the spark plug on the #1 cyl. take a straighten coat hanger and throw it in the hole. now slowly turn the motor...you'll see how wire goes up and down. from that you can determine TDC. then get the dist and line the rotor as close as #1 cyl post as possible. i think the stock timing is like 15 BTDC...so figure where 15 degree (rotor and dist cap distance). try it one tooth before and after but you're going to be close....find out what runs best.
10-06-2005, 08:40 PM
#24
Originally Posted by 93turbo gxe
ok yeah got that but now all it does is spins over and you can hear a popping through the exhaust
also try setting to TDC and pull the dist out and place it back in one tooth over.
10-07-2005, 04:25 AM
#25
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It sounds like a timing issue to me as well. Remember (as we talked on the phone too.) that where the #1plug wire is attatched at the cap on the outside is different on the inside where the rotor actualy jumps the spark.
The only problem I had when I fired mine back up from blowing the headgasket last winter was getting all the coolant to burn out of the exhaust!! Uncle Buck there for awile
Seriously.. get the distributer phazing correct. Guessing doesn't work with such a small window that nissan gave you for adjusments on the distributer.
Hopefully you did the valve timeing correct with the belt. That will definatly cause sluggish responce if it's retarded a tooth on the crank. I'd drive out there and help if it wasn't 500.00 a gallon now days!
Drove to Cinc. OH to help a org. member change out his timing belt/waterpump in a afternoon last year.
Anyone else close to SC? that can help?
~Scott
The only problem I had when I fired mine back up from blowing the headgasket last winter was getting all the coolant to burn out of the exhaust!! Uncle Buck there for awile
Seriously.. get the distributer phazing correct. Guessing doesn't work with such a small window that nissan gave you for adjusments on the distributer.
Hopefully you did the valve timeing correct with the belt. That will definatly cause sluggish responce if it's retarded a tooth on the crank. I'd drive out there and help if it wasn't 500.00 a gallon now days!
Drove to Cinc. OH to help a org. member change out his timing belt/waterpump in a afternoon last year.
Anyone else close to SC? that can help?
~Scott
10-07-2005, 03:18 PM
#26
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ok got the timing light and checked timing and it shows to be right at 15 degrees. But it still wont fire again. it just turns over and over. the front injectors are soaking the plugs but they are not leaking so what else can give?
10-09-2005, 09:38 AM
#28
If you are sure that you are getting spark and all the wires are going to the correct cylinders, I would check your cam timing next. Your plugs are probably soaked due to all of the attempts to start the car. You can always clean them off and reinstall them. Something else you could try is to swap in the stock FPR and injectors and just see if the car will start like that. If it does, you know that the problem is fuel related.
10-09-2005, 10:13 AM
#29
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that does sound like a timing issue. I replaced a distributor on a Honda and did the same thing. I did the timing incorrectly, it turned on for a couple of mins. Then it shut off and then it would not turn on. I fixed the timing and it fires up fine. Idle was also all messed up.
10-09-2005, 10:40 AM
#30
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Ok I put new plugs in and they have become soaked too. I checked the timing with a timing light ad it showes to be on 15 degrees. My next step is to pull the timing belt cover and see what up with it now.
10-09-2005, 04:29 PM
#31
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ok I pulled the timing cover and it seems that the cam sprocket could be one tooth retartded. But i remembered when I put the belt on (NO MARKS ON BELT) That the
cam sprocket marks would not line up with the timing marks on the plate behind the sprocket they would either would go on one side of the mark or the other. the crankshaft mark is on the money though
cam sprocket marks would not line up with the timing marks on the plate behind the sprocket they would either would go on one side of the mark or the other. the crankshaft mark is on the money though
10-09-2005, 05:24 PM
#32
might try picking up a better quality belt. they should definitely have the marks on them. i'd get a nissan belt or something like a goodyear gatorback (i think that's the name. that'll help out though having the marks on the belt.
10-10-2005, 03:56 AM
#34
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Humm.. why does seem like it's been said before ... hummm Oh Because We had this exact same conversation BEFORE you put the car back together 
I'm not trying to scrape your nuts but we/I would not suggest somthing if it realy were not important. Was saving 20.00 realy worth all this headache?
1) Cam timing HAS TO BE RIGHT
2) Ignition timing HAS to be Close at least for startup. Get the timing light on it asap after it's running.
With out the valve events happening at the right times, Ign. being at 15deg won't help!!
Pick up a new belt make sure it's pointing the right way (via marks for direction) and white lines line up with marks on camgears/crank gear.
No slack on front side of belt or on top. All slack to be on tensioner side!
Re-set distributer to #1 again (on inside of cap pickup).
If those two things are right then there should not be any other problems with it running.
Sorry to be harsh but it's important! Thought I made that clear when we talked about it!!!!!
~Scott (why do i sound like a parent)
maby I've been bossing my 4&5yr old too much.
I'm not trying to scrape your nuts but we/I would not suggest somthing if it realy were not important. Was saving 20.00 realy worth all this headache?
1) Cam timing HAS TO BE RIGHT
2) Ignition timing HAS to be Close at least for startup. Get the timing light on it asap after it's running.
With out the valve events happening at the right times, Ign. being at 15deg won't help!!
Pick up a new belt make sure it's pointing the right way (via marks for direction) and white lines line up with marks on camgears/crank gear.
No slack on front side of belt or on top. All slack to be on tensioner side!
Re-set distributer to #1 again (on inside of cap pickup).
If those two things are right then there should not be any other problems with it running.
Sorry to be harsh but it's important! Thought I made that clear when we talked about it!!!!!
~Scott (why do i sound like a parent)
maby I've been bossing my 4&5yr old too much.
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