Time to introduce myself…

Although, I only had 3 posts in over 3 years on this site until the past few days, my exploits in the 4th gen community date back to 1997. Do any of the old timers remember Andi Baritchi's Maxima forum??? http://www.boostaholic.com/maxima/index.html before Andi when on to sexier and faster things (98 Supra).

Anyways, I was the person the prototyped the Unorthodox racing UDP, Al Flywheel, and Kevlar clutch for the 4th gens. I was also ~2nd or 3rd in on the Random Technologies highflow cat.

Basically, by 1999 I had every bolt-on available and then quit modifying the car due to diminishing returns on investment at that point coupled with my being increasingly tied up with my undergrad schooling.

Fast forward to 2004, I purchased a 1990 Mustang GT and subsequently ripped it apart and rebuilt the engine, installed a PTK turbo kit and AEM EMS and tuned it and had a good ‘ole time learning how to manage a turbo setup.

However, the Mustang is really overkill for the road. Blowing drag radials away at 60-90 MPH + from a roll is a little beyond silly (read dangerous) and this car is likely to be more drag oriented in the future.

More recent Mustang details located here:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=43105.0
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=55230.0

Now, given the fact that the Mustang is overkill and gas isn’t getting any cheaper, I have decided to plunge ahead and apply my turbo skills to my 1996 Nissan Maxima SE. However, instead of purchasing a turbo kit this time, I plan to fabricate it myself.

I still have many details to workout (turbo, EMS, piping size, piping routing, fueling methods, A2A IC dimensions, and etc); however, the plans are being laid and the project will be thoroughly documented in the same meticulous detail as shown in my Mustang project threads.

I am currently in temporary housing due to just relocated to a new job in the Columbus, Ohio area; however, if all goes well, I will have a new house/workshop within the next month or so. Thus, within the next 2-3 months the project can commence. Until then the planning will continue.

I hope everyone enjoys the ride as much as I will. I hope it will be a learning experience for all.

My turbo Maxima objectives:
I want ~300-350whp and full boost close to 3000 RPMs. I find it odd that most people here are using T4 turbine housings for a 3L V6, since I currently use a 0.68 A/R p-trim T4 on my 5L V8. I am really curious about the boost vs. RPM for people using T3 housings.

I am currently thinking about going with a 0.63 A/R T3 turbine housing and a TOE4 60 Trim compressor, which would seem to be a good match for the flow requirements of the 3L VQ.

I am familiar with the AEM EMS; however, the Emanage Ultimate is considerably cheaper. I am not sure which option I will choose.

Getting this power to the ground will of course be challenging; however, I have orderd Jclaw’s traction bars as a start. I also plan on ES motor mounts. However, more will be required I am sure. I am not certain on the differential options at this time (more research required!)

Comments are welcome!

 

Good luck with your project, maybe one day it can become a great sticky.

 

I have a friend that researched the Microtech and Hydra EMS's if you would be interested in those as well.

 

I want something with similar capabilities of the AEM EMS. For example, I would like to be able to control my boost in each gear like I was in the AEM (5 PSI in first, 7 PSI in second, 10 PSI in third, and 13 in 4th is what I used on the Mustang).

I am not sure if the other EMS are able to control a solenoid to do this?

 

dont forget to build the tranny too!

 

Not with the EU, however it can control boost x RPM.

 

Does the tranny have issues surviving at ~300whp? I have read that the diff is suspect, but not the tranny at that power level??? I will not be powershifting or using slicks. I might get some drag radials depending on how silly the lack of traction becomes.

 

At 300whp your transmission should be fine stock, as will your differential. Not sure what it is you heard about differential problems but I've never heard of any (other than the bearings, which has nothing to do with power). You would also be fine with regular summer tires at 300whp, those will dead hook 2nd gear, 1st would still spin though for certain. Your turbo size sounds good for the goals you have set forth. Do yourself a favor since you are fabbing your own setup, and don't do a reverse ypipe.

I certainly wouldn't bother with a standalone for 300whp, especially since you'd be pioneering uncharted territory (only one standalone up and running on a 4th gen and that took a ton of work because of our wacky crank signal), but that's a decision that is up to you and your wallet. Though I have seen a few posts indicating that a custom crank trigger would theoretically be easier to deal with than working around our funky stock crank signal, though no-one has put that into practice (at least no one that posts on here).

What are the numbers on your mustang (dyno or track)?

 

My current plan on the piping is to design the best flowing pre-turbo piping that is not a PITA to fabricate. I do plan to retain the stock headers and just modify the post header routing.

My experiences thus far with AEM's EMS was it was pretty much a direct replacement (plus any additional sensors I added). Thus, this is the first I have heard of the crank signal issues. Do you have any links with more info on this?

The AEM isn't cheap, but it sure is when you consider all the things it can do and try to replace them with stand alones for them. I am sure it would be overkill for my goals, but the flexibility (and familiarity) would be worth alot to me. I will of course have to research this more.

I didn't have the Mustang dynoed. Based upon similar combos I would expect 450-500 rwhp. The only time it has been to the track was @ 7 PSI with lots of timing pulled (my first time ever at the drags). I ran a 8.4 @ 92 MPH in the 1/8th spinning through 1-2nd. I had a 2.2x 60 ft and a 1.04x reaction time (yeah, I sucked). I would guess I could manage an 11 something @ mid 120s MPH in the quarter at 13 PSI (it has the power to run 10s, just not the driver). I will have to find out once my car gets up here since there are some local tracks.

 

Pretty much the issue is the crank sensor output is retarted and its hard to get a standered ecu/standalone to read it.

Im putting megasquirt on my VQ, with a new crank sensor. Id see if you could use some other crank sensor, it would make things alot easier.

~Alex

 

Yeah there is a thread about it somewhere in this forum. It's probably a year and a half old or so. Nigel posted it I think his screen name is turbo97se.

 

Here's another suggestion: can you fit a CAS disk on the end of the cam? If you can get one to fit from either a z32 or M30, RB or something like that, you could then tune the ecu for the cost of an emulator/burner. Hmmm, my cousin has a 96, I'll have to take a peak at it.

 

Quick question: What is this z32 everyone keeps mentioning? I keep reading of people using a z32 MAF; however, I have never seen a reference to what it comes off of.

 

z32 = chassis code for the 1990-96 300zx twin turbo. Kinda like the sn95 in the mustang world. The maf is used because it is able to read 500hp worth of airflow. That's been proven on a dyno many times.

 

Where does the stock MAF max out at HP wise?

Car-parts.com seems to think that the Infiniti J30 MAF is interchangable with the 300zx MAF. Has anyone confirmed this?

Thanks.

 

Like 270ish I think.

The J30 maf and Z32 maf have the same part number but I just read a thread last week where someone said that the number of prongs on the plug are different.

 

Here is my current budget/plan. Obviously, I still have several holes; however, this is just the rough draft.

I am not currently planning to use a FMU or FPR; however, I am not so sure about the FPR.

Any comments/suggestions?



How do I make this link an image? I did the insert image. Doah.

 

There are some things I'm curious as to why you chose them. 2.5" downpipe (I'm assuming here because of the 2.5" vband)? Why a T3 5bolt which then requires an additional adaptor, why not just a normal T31 4 bolt, seems like it'd be easier (unless the turbo you want only comes with a 5 bolt housing option)? Why a 40mm wastegate (not that it's a problem, but just seems like more money than necessary, 38mm would be fine).

Also not sure if you are aware that a 9" tall intercooler will require major cutting if not complete removal of your front bumper support.

Here is the pic

 

I am not extremely familiar with T3 turbines. The only ones I have seen are the 5-bolt types. Thus, I was under the impression that they were the only T3 turbine type.

I just did some Googling for T31 and found some info. Thanks! I am trying to make this as simple as possible, which is why I am doing some detailed planning up front. I did what I thought was detailed planning on my turbo Mustang project; however, my actual cost ended up being 2x my planned costs. This did include almost $3000 in tools, which will not have to be purchased this time around. I hope that my cost projections are more accurate this time around.

My current plan entails a 2.5’’ exhaust due to my modest power goals coupled with my already having a 2.5’’ Random Tech cat, Dynomax bullet, and Dynomax Ultraflow.

I want a larger wastegate due to my planning on a relatively restrictive turbine to achieve good boost response. This requires my wastegate being capable of bypassing sufficient exhaust flow to keep from choking my setup or allowing boost creep.

The price difference between a 38mm and 50mm is pretty much negligible on eBay (I really can't see the point of spending $300+ for a wastegate...there really isn't that much too them – the cheap knockoffs seem to be totally sufficient, the turbo is another matter…).

On the IC...What is the largest that will fit without major cutting? I was guesstimating on that IC. I don't want to mutilate my bumper support if I can help it, while at the same time I want a sufficiently size IC to keep temps well in check. What is a good size?

And how did you get the picture to show up???

 

6" is the tallest you can go without cutting the bumper support, might be able to get away with 7" but I doubt it, without mounting the IC really low anyways (such that it might stick out a tiny bit from under the bumper cover). My buddy mike is using an 8" IC and he had to cut his bumper support in half. The bumper support is probably 4" tall, and he had to cut the bottom 2 or so inches off of it, but it's still present at least, just not in it's full form. That still requires what I'd call a "major cut" as you are removing a bunch of material, and it requires a sawzall or similar instrument, but at least you still have some bumper support there to tie the front end together. I have a 12" tall IC and there is no bumper support on my car unfortunately, something I've been considering changing. Maybe go with a wider, shorter IC since your airflow needs are not so high. Maybe like a 24" wide core in 6-8" height and 3" depth, depending on how willing you are to cut the bumper support. The 24" width and 3" depth will work fine, just gotta make a height decision.

To get the pic to show up I clicked on your link, then at the bottom of your link there is a link that says PlanV1.jpg, I clicked on that and that took me to a webpage that gave a normal style URL for your picture

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...2go/PlanV1.jpg

Then I just copied and pasted that in between the [img] and [/img] tags.

What are you doing for a clutch disk? I notice you have a clutchnet PP accounted for but I saw no mention of a disk.

 

Sounds like I will be in the market for something more like this then: 28''x7''x2.5''.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/search...***=sgzimports


I don't mind a little cutting. I have to justify all those power tools somehow.

Thanks for the help on the pic posting! The devil is always in the details.

 

In my experience I think you have a really good start!

Diff- Find a quaife

Injectors- go bigger atleast 555-deatchs, you can always tune around the bigger injector without raising pressure

Also for tuning, your pretty close to me and I goto the tuning factory up in Michigan- dan is my tuner and he is very efficient. Check your PM.

Also I would think about going to 3inch tubing for the y-pipe etc and keep the intercooler piping around 2.5.

Intercooler I have a 8x28x3 spearco fits very well and you can retain your bumper, you just trim out 3inches of the bumper support ck the pics on my web site.

 

Where would I find one? Are there any other options beside an I30 VSLD and the Quaife?

 

No, there aren't. (AE VLSD and I30 VLSD are the same, and you may see the terms used interchangeably).

Quaife is nice but it definately isn't a necessity by any means. They are no longer produced so you'll have to get a used one if you want one, or talk Quaife into making you one heh.

BTW what are you doing for a clutch disk?

 

I would suggest the plx m-500 for a wideband and it should work perfect with the EU. It also has knock function on it with setable alarm, (I wish I had gotten one). The intercooler I purchased was a mishimoto brand which is 28x6.25x2.5. The core is slightly smaller, but the shop doing the work keeps trying to talk me into just doing away with the bumper support. Everytime they do that I envision a vq30det sitting in my lap, and I don't think it will be pleasurable. Anyways the mounting bolts for the intercooler make the profile a little larger than 6" so they still have to cut some.

I bought a monza ssq bov off ebay, it supposed to be basically the samething as the hks ssq. When my stuff is done I'll let you know the deal on it cause they want to run the maf on the charged side. From all the reviews I read on the monza, it doesn't give any problems and works as it should. Not trying to be cheap, just being froogle.

 

Nealoc187
What is the AE VLSD? Or at least what does it come off of and on what years. Also, what years do the I30's have the VLSD?

I am still torn about the clutch situation. I had a full racing kevlar clutch with unsprung hub for about 70k miles and it sucked ***. If would chatter if I slipped it below 1800 RPMs. I never want that again.

I want a capable clutch that is smooth as silk. The question, of course, is what can be that smooth while holding the required torque? I don't mind additional pedel effort (I squat about 550lbs so I am good there). So I would imagine that a stiffer pressure plate and an organic sprung hub disk would suit me. Other options?


maxgtr2000
I will have to check into that WBO2. I am currently leaning towards the Zeitronix. I also plan to get a dirt cheap BOV. The BOV and wastegate are very simple devices, which the Chinese (yes, all this cheap stuff on eBay is almost certainly made in China) have plenty of skill and QAQC to produce sufficiently.


I have been busy today. I ran some numbers so I could do some more detailed compressor analysis to match the flow needs of my VQ. I started off by utilizing a NA dyno from someone off this site with similar mods to mine and inputed their wheel torque numbers into this model and went from there.





After running the numbers, they seemed to pass the BS sniff test. 5 PSI = ~250whp, 8PSI = ~290whp, 10 PSI = ~320whp so then I moved on to graphing...

 

One of the two turbos I believed would be a good fit from eyeballing the data previously was a TO4E 60 trim:



I did the engine flow requirements for 3 Boost levels (5, 8, and 10 PSI), which are the ones I am most likely to utilize. I mapped the engine flow requirements in 500 RPM increments as per the color key.

This turbo is a good fit. It is always going to be above 65% adiabatic efficiency at 5 PSI (right at 65% at 5500 RPMs), and is really in the sweet spot of the efficiency island at 8 and 10 PSI (between 72-80%).

 

The other one was a T60-1:



This one also is a good fit. It is actually better than the TO4E 60 trim at 5 PSI, and perhaps slightly better at 8 or 10 PSI. It is difficult to say without the island lines marked in % of adiabatic efficiency on the T60-1.

In reality both turbos are excellent fits. However, I believe the TO4E 60 Trim is the better of the two for me since it is a slightly smaller compressor and should spool slightly quicker (maybe 100 rpms quicker, maybe).

 

Updated plan/budget:

 

See the thing is I got the Zeitronix, the full set up with the lcd readout and all, but ordered it before I found out about it not being able to work perfect with the emanage. I believe the emanage has an auto correction based on the afr given the reading from a compatible wideband kit, the big timers can chime in on this one (linear output?). Don't get me wrong, you can still use it and it is an excellent unit, it just won't flow with the emanage perfectly in terms of the "autocorrect". I think though with EU and plx m-500 the laptop would need 2 usb ports for the data for both units where as Zietronix will be the 1 cable port and 1 usb for EU.

I must say you have some good information in this post the way you have everything charted. Such as website links and such.

 

maxgtr2000

I would hope the Emanage would have a calibration page in the programming to configure the AFR vs Voltage from any WBO2. I know my AEM did. Does anyone have any hard info on this?


My plan is to use the LCD screen to display my Boost PSI and AFR (this saves me from getting a pillar and 2 gauges).

I was thinking along the lines of having a 2 or maybe 3 Bar MAP sensor that feeds both into the Zeitronix and the Emanage. MAP sensor output would be displayed in the Zeitronix LCD and logged and/or used to change fuel/timing in the Emanage.

I did not intend on using the Zeitronic for logging at all. I was only planning on the Emanage for that assuming the Zeitronic will work with the Emanage.


Glad you are enjoying my thread.

 

I am using a Act pressure plate, fidanza, and had my local clutch shop put togather a carbon/kevlar 4 puck sprung hub disk, It's great, and it is totally streetable!! And only 160.00- let me know if you want one and I could have him build it!

 

This sounds great... look forward to seeing the end result.

 

Well I just started my project with t3/t4 not too sure about compressor maps but i am good with my fuel system to 420 hp not sure what i am gonna put down condersing this is a kit i mad my self.. with the expection of the exhaust pipes but should give you a idea.. if you have any question do ask.. I went with a relativy small intercooler becasue i didnt want to loost my bumper and I am not going for all out power just more than what i have..

 

420 hp with 370cc injectors? Are you using an FMU as well?

 

SouthFlMaxTech

What are the full specs of the turbo you are using (compressor and turbine)?

Also, what are the dimensions of your IC (core and total)? Where did you purchase it and how much if you don't mind my asking?

Your project is looking good.

 

Very nice laying out on the chart,good luck with your project,what are you using to controll your boost,manually or electronic,turbo timer too?

 

The boost control method has not been determined at this time.

I was leaning towards another AEM EMS, which has very nice boost control features; however, it seems that they are selling (or more likely not selling) for close to $3000 for our application. Since I paid $1350 for the AEM EMS for my Mustang, I find this quite lame.

 

im watching this thread for helpful info. i bought a book on turbo'ing cars and have been reading that also. nice to see people who give step by step guides for fellow DIY'ers

 

Which book did you get? I started out with Maximum Boost by Corky Bell.

It was a decent primer, I read it twice; however, it is far from everything that one needs to know to turbo their vehicle. I gained most of my insight at www.turbomustangs.com. There are many extremely knowledgable people on that site (try reading their turbofaq -- it is probably as good as Maximum Boost).

I put an offer in on a house today. Perhaps I can get this project moving along sometime in the not too distant future.