Can't Lean Injectors at Higher RPM, Emanage.
 

So long story short. Anything after 3000rpm and in boost I cannot lean out my 600cc injectors. I'm getting ~9.5 A/F across the board. I started off with +44 Duty Cycle and went all the way to 0 Duty cycle. Funny thing is I got richer. Went to 8.9 A/F.

Setup related to fuel:

600cc injectors
Walbro 255
Stock FPR
no O2's
Injectors scaled before 300cc, after 600cc But thats just a global scale.

What am I doing wrong? I'm tuning via the injector map. My closed loop is fully tuned and damn close to perfect but in WOT I can't seem to get it to lean it out.

Look at the data log, what are the input and output duty cycles? What maf are you using?

you might have to pull fuel back; but I think it is the stock fpr. It is prob not controlling the fuel pressure properly with the walbro sending so much fuel so the injectors have alot of pressure. Do you have a gauge on it? I would get the Nismo fpr and use that.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...h_IMG_2278.jpg

Here are my nismo fpr and summit gauge.

I have a Greddy Fuel Pressure Sensor. It went to 4 bars so 58 PSI measuring at the inlet while going down the 1/4 mile. As for the injectors they go to about 78% output in DC. I could try and get a new FPR and under the hood gauge, might aswell just put back the stock O2's. What type of ratio should I go for? 1:1 on the FPR?

Thansk Kevlo

Yes, get a FPR that is 1:1 with boost. So set it to 43psi w/o vac connected. (it will read 37psi at idle with the vac connected). Then under boost it will raise the psi with boost, say 10 psi; so at 10 psi the injectors will get 53 psi.

so may cheap FPR...what model was the Nismo one?

I have the universal Nismo one, I believe type-b? It wasn't cheap, around 130. But better than the aeromotive in that it doesnt have diaphragms that go bad. I am not a fan of those cheap ebay specials either.

OK stupid question...How will a FPR help my situation? I'm just confused...

Ive run just fine on the OEM FPR using 555s and the EU.

Then definitly something is wrong with my FPR....but only at wot?!

ok so i'm getting 3 bar (43.5psi) at idle and 3.6 bar (52.2psi) with vacuum disconnected. I should be getting I think 36psi at idle and 43psi with vacuum disconnected. Am I off to much? I do have another FPR i'll swap in to see if it makes any changes.

I think the fpr is sending too much fuel pressure under a load hence the injectors just dumping fuel.

This is interesting, I could barely get the car to run with it. Are you still using it?

I think it is gonna be high cuz the walbro sends alot more pressure and the stock fpr isn't made for it.

I am assuming flav just adjusted alot of fuel to compensate for the increased pressures associated with using the walbro/stock fpr combo.

Well I tested 2 other stock FPR. Only one/current was able to bring the fuel pressure to 2.9 bars at idle but same pressure without vacuum. I guess i'll buy a FPR which is prolly going to be when I go on vacation next week to North Carolina. But Kevlo, do you actually think this would solve my issue with the injectors? The only thing i'd see is a lower WOT pressure which will make my fuel compensation a little less, or maybe this is to much pressure for the injectors?

Also when you tune do you scale your injectors? Cause if I do go with an after market FPR then I might aswell put the O2's back in. If I adjust the the fuel pressure to stock with the O2's would I have to make any adjustments in the EU or should I get 14.7 A/F off the bat?

I have O2's, and I scale. I scaled using the EU and my consult tool to see how much the ECU was adjusting. Using this I scaled my 444cc injectors to run like stock.

http://www.deatschwerks.com/fuel-calculators/

Injectors are rated at 43psi. So if you are running more psi than that, you are technically running bigger injectors.

OK, well I'm confused again. My idle is fine with 600cc injectors and stock FPR and I'm not using any O2's. Why only at WOT I cannot make any changes (damn +44DC to 0DC is significant but no changes were apparent). My map is also weird, I'm adding fuel up to 30 DC before WOT and in WOT I have to bring it back down to zero (apparently less then 0). FML:bawling:

Also note:

Most injectors are rated at 43.5 psi. DeatschWerks recommends keeping your base fuel pressure below 60-65 psi in most situations.

Just hesitant to pay up for new O2's and a FPR when it may not be needed.

Very true, any way you can hook up a gauge to monitor your fuel pressure while driving?

I have the gauge in the car so yes I can always monitor it. At the track the gauge went as high as 58psi or 4 bar. I can show you the current map I use to drive and then I can show you the map I adjusted for the track without any luck. I also have 6 datalog files for the 6 runs we did at the track. Also to note, Using duration I cannot get the car to idle properly but I guess that's a different story.

I kinda thought the fuel map would start off by me removing fuel then as I go into boost maybe bring it up to 0. But that would be with no before/after adjustments. Just thinking of this gets me mad lol.

could it also be how the fuel is getting introduced? Like maybe its to rich at one point then as the car keeps progressing through the rpm/boost range it can't adjusted the fuel fast enough? I say this stupidity because on the road I can hit 11 A/F in a 3rd gear pull sometimes and other its 9.5-10.:o

email me the logs, kevlo2000 @ yahoo . com

Yes


I did, big time. We had a very hard time getting the car to start when first starting up with this setup.

Its funny, In duty cycle the car perrs like a 2 week old kitten. With duration it smells like crap in the sun. Not a good analogy that one...

Awesome Thanks Kevlo. I'll send em tonight.

Also Thanks Flava.

Yes I know I posted two thank you's but it means that much to me!!!

Well, I retried to tune via duration. Boy was that a fail eheheh. I don't know why but duty cycle is so easy to do. Either way. I believe I'm going to purchase a FPR 1:1 and get some O2 sensors. That way I won't have to make such drastic changes in the tune.

Also Kevlo, are you tuning via duration? Just wondering.

I am using duty cycle as well because I wanted to use autotune. Eventually i'll convert the map to duration and do finetuning to get the perfect afr

aaahah damn, everyone is using DC. For s hit and giggles you want to see if you can tune your idle on duration? I'm just curious.:p

So I bought an Aeromotive 13109 adjustable from 30-70 psi and is 1:1 with boost. I'll test it out this Sunday and see what happens.

So I installed the FPR and set it to 36psi with vacuum and it goes to like 43psi without vacuum. I have a weird issue that I'm not sure off but might be normal?

The FPR gauge shows 36psi of pressure but my in car FP guage shows 3 .4bars. The FPR is on the outlet side of the fuel rail and the FP gauge that's inside the car is on the inlet of the fuel rail. Is this normal to see a different pressure? I thought it should read the same as the FPR.

Pics:

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/w...y/IMG_0480.jpg

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/w...y/IMG_0482.jpg

Now the last pic is the overal just to show where I put it and what not. I was wondering though. Is my BOV (purple top)to close to the MAF sensor?

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/w...y/IMG_0481.jpg

I see nothing wrong with the setup. I have my gauge on the inlet as well. Question for you is, how sure are you that the gauges are accurate? One of them might be wrong.

Yah, one is wrong for sure... I'll place another gauge on the inlet and compare it with the FPR gauge. I'm pretty sure the gauge on the inlet is wrong. So far Greddy Gauges suck.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can fire up the car with a duration based tune. I have my FPR installed and o2's so it should work out, pretty damn stock minus the 600cc injectors ;).

Ohh, Kevlo. I have something to show you on one of my quarter mile run. It's one of the datalog as I'm not sure which map it was used with. Basically at 5k to 5.5k the input injector duty cycle sent from the ecu is 8% (should be like 60%+) then with my modifications to the injectors (ie scaling etc) it brings it down to 4%. Thats why my car stumbles (ie new redline). I'll post a new thread on this and send you the datalog.

OMG, can my issue be so simple???? When I first did my EU setting per Dandymax i've always wondered why my voltages where low for my TPS. My min is like 0.11v and my max is like 3.65v. I think the TPS needs adjusting. Any thoughts?

Dandymax's readings:

Min Max
0.55v 4.12

Na, mine is in the 3's

Don't say that, running out of ideas :(. If this doesn't work i'll post the datalog in a new thread. I'll try to re-adjust tonight and see what happens.

Did you email me?, I didnt get anything from you.

Sending now, havent had a chance to readjust the tps.

If that doesn't work look at your maf voltage readings during the problem rpm range.

Alrighty, as per these set of instructions I adjusted my TPS: http://vbxmaxima.8m.com/tps.html

So at closed i'm reading 500ohms and open throttle I'm reading 4.04k. But here is the issue, with the key in on the ON position I am not seeing 5v at the TPS pin 1. The car is not started just the key to ON.

I also took a video of the car idling at 600rpm then after like 30 seconds it starts to hunt for rpms until it stalls. If I try to readjust the set screw I can open the throttle a bit and the rpms don't change. Once I shut off the car and restart it the idle goes to 2k. Weird? Can anyone confirm the 5v on pin 1 (who ever has an emanage ultimate). Plz :D

Video will be posted later tonight, just have to upload it.

Edit:

I was measuring the TPS pin 1 the wrong way (durhh). I'll reset ECU tonight and hope I can do a relearn tomorrow morning, then hopefully it won't stall out.

Setting the TPS with the Emanage should be easy.
With mine, I basicly just had the laptop in the engine bay and made adjustments and monitored while doing so and when I got the 5v I then tightened down the bolts.

Do you have an 00VI or stock manifold? I have an 00VI. I got my sister to disconnect that battery for like 6 hours. When I got home I fired up the car. Initially it was a high idle, but once the car warmed up it was a smooth 600-700 idle. Although it idled way longer then before it still had it's rpm dips of no return. I'm close I think, well for readjusting the idle. ope I can nail the idle tomorrow and continue my never ending investigation with the car.

on a side note i'm sure my car would idle like a kitten if I used the A32 IACV + the 2 extra connectors that i'm not using currently.