Since I recently ordered a 3K stall torque converter, I plan on my 60 foots going from 2.3s to 1.8-2.0s. I know I will need slicks. But since I bracket race, i will need some DOT approved tires that will NEVER spin at all on a hard launch.

I would like to stay with the gearing that's best for me, which is 22" or 23" OD. I plan on using my 11lb 15x6 Millenia wheels with these slicks.

Basically, after all my research, I found out they don't make a cheater slick (aka street slick) in a 22 or 23" OD for a 15" rim. I would have to go with M&H 23" full slick. But I can't use that since it's not DOT approved.

I know what you're thinking... use a drag radial. I wonder if i will be able to overpower a 205/50R15 BFG Gforce Drag Radial. ... especially since I MIGHT be capable of 1.x 60 foots. Now if this tire will hook, maybe with a small burnout, then I will get these. But if there is a chance that they will spin, then I don't want them. I have VQ 5spd friends that use this DR and they spin too much and get 2.2s. My auto should launch harder than most NA Maximas. These are the DRs that I MIGHT consider if traction isn't a problem:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....FA+Drag+Radial

My other option is to buy my neighbor's tires. He has the 205/50R15 Hoosier road course racing DOT slicks. They look just like street slicks, but they feel harder. I guess it's b/c they are used for road racing and they need to be heated up very well before they work. He has 3 of these slicks in almost NEW condition along with 3 Rota wheels. He will sell them all to me for $100. Now that is a GOOD price since they go for $175 brand new EACH. I just hope the compound isn't too hard when cold and I will still run the chance of losing traction. These are the tires:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ireModel=R3S03

Should I even give these Hoosiers and try since I can get them for such a steal?

Another thing I need to consider with slicks is if they will hurt my trap speeds. I know if I got 25" full slicks, traction will never be a problem, but it will hurt my trap speeds. I'm sure those full slick guys can answer this question.

But please give me any suggestions on a 195/45R15 to 205/50R15 DOT approved tire that won't break lose on a hard launch that might be capable of a 1.x 60'. I am shooting for PERFECT traction first since I bracket race. Thanks in advance.

 

Dont even consider the hoosiers. That is an R compound race tire, not a drag slick. I would put money on the fact that you would cut worse 60' times with a 3000 stall and those hoosiers than a drag radial. The sidewalls on the hoosiers is like steel, well actually it IS steel, and there is zero flex, none. The compound will be VERY hard when cold, and you will have very little traction. That tire must be brought up to a specific operating temperature to grip effectively. Only at that specific temperature does it provide any traction advantage, and for launching a drag car, the increased coefficient of friction will still be more than offset by the poor design of the sidewall (for drag racing). You will be wasting your money. I have actually seen an auto 4th gen (supercharged) attempting to run on Hoosier Rs and it didn't work well.

Since you can't find a DOT slick for your size you have to get the DRs.

I trap the same or sometimes even better on my 26" diameter slicks running at about 12psi than I trap on my street tires. This has been tested in back to back to back to back runs on street tires and slicks. Whenever I run my slicks I always make a few street tire passes beforehand.

For you the gearing difference might be more of a concern. I don't have cartest on this computer or I would test it for you. For me, the change from 24" diameter street tires to 26" diameter slicks produces no loss of trap speed. In fact my highest trap speed ever was on my slicks. Though the variance is within ~.5mph, well within the realm of the simple variance between different runs on the same tires even.

Can you find a cheaterslick in anything close to a decent size for you, or do they not exist in a size remotely close to what you are looking for, even if it is 25"+.

 

I think there are cheater slicks out there close to 25" OD. But I haven't found anything that is around 22 or 23" OD.

I went from 25" OD stock tires to 22" OD with Millenia wheels. So I went from a 38lb setup to a 27lb setup. Plus, I got better gearing which makes a world of a difference in the butt dyno. I get out on the track and have come to the conclusion that I got .25 faster in the 1/4 mile.

I REALLY want to keep this gearing. But still able to bracket race with the higher stall TC. I hope you have some suggestions for me. I might have to get some BFGs and heat them up really well before each run in order to get a perfect launch everytime. But I think I might be able to still over power the DRs.

*edit* Correction, I can't find ANY cheater slicks out there that are smaller than 26" OD. And no way they will fit on my Millenia wheels.

 

Another question, what is the stickiest DOT approved drag radial? I have heard BFG Gforce from one person and Nittos from another. I wonder if there is one DR out there that has proven to be stickier in straight line performance.

 

Aaron you are going to compromise not matter what you do, and quick 60' times are virtually impossible without slicks.

Don't you have any braket classes that allow slicks?

All of our bracket classes do, even the one with stock everything. The only class we have that requires DOT is Pro Street and they are much faster than I am.

I agree with you on the 22" tiresl, for an auto they are a must.

 

BFG drag radials are much stickier than nitto. Nitto's will last much longer if you plan to drive on these every day, but BFG have more ultimate grip on the track. I don't know if you will need much more than a drag radial. When I was thinking about getting a TQ converter that is all I was gonna do was use drag radials. If you ordered a protorque converter, it is rated for 300-800rpm over stock depending on torque of the vehicle. It may not be a 3000 stall for you, it may only be a 2500 stall, which is not much increase and may not be too much for drag radials. I don't think I would expect unbelieveable 60 ft times, you might eek out a 1.9x, but I would expect 2.0's at best, that is all I was expecting. I ran 205/50-15 kuhmo street tires and the track and pulled a 2.18 60 ft time, but the VQ has a little more torque down low. The low gearing is a must though on the auto.

 

I do have bracket classes that allow full slicks. It is Pro. Pro is the only one I can compete in that allows full slicks. But those cars are much more consistant than my VE. I compete in the Sport Compact class which needs DOT stamped tires and mufflers. Same for the Street class.


I didn't order a Protorque b/c I knew it wouldn't be what I wanted. I dealt with a very experienced custom performance torque converter shop in SoCal. He thinks the configuration he came up with will give me a true stall rating of around 3400. Which is around 3K on my tach. And he upped the STR (Stall Torque Ratio) from 1.6 to around 2.2. Which will greatly increase torque multiplication. So I know this TC will provide a harsher launch than a Protorque TC.

So basically, it sounds like I am SOL!!! Man, this blows. I don't know what I am going to do. Right now, I have Toyo T1-S 195/45R15, which are very sticky but I KNOW I will be able to burn them down all the way through the 60'. I might have to get a 26" street slick setup with an 8 inch wide rim. Man that is going to suck.

But I also want to whoop the NA VE record, so I will need traction, but I know it will hurt my trap speeds with big 26" slicks. I guess I am just going to have to drive with my car a ltitle bit and experiement with the tires I have now and see how bad I will need traction. Any other suggestions are GREATLY appreciated. Thanks everybody for chiming in.

 

I have some questions:

Who has drag radials?

What kind do you have?

What size do you have?

And what 60 foots are you able to get without them spinning? My definition of "spinning" is anything more than a couple of chirps.

What is your best 60' with those DRs?

Thanks.

 

BSwithTF (Travis) runs BFG 225/50R15s mounted on Millenia wheels on his 95 GXE auto. The combo is about 24" tall or roughly 1.6" shorter than the stock 4th gen diameter. He barely heats up the tires and I've never seen him do a burnout. From what I've read, a good burnout is mandatory to pull good 60 foots with the BFG DRs. I've seen him pull a lower 2.2 60' which is without a burnout and just a simple flash stall of the stock torque converter. I'd imagine he could get a mid 2.1 60' if he did a burn out and stalled up the converter hard right before the second amber. I've never seen him spin the tires on a launch. His best is a lower 14.8@93mph (he's be about 14.6@95mph on a sea level track). I will be buying a set of 225/50R15 BFGs for this season because I'm impressed with them. I think I'll be able to get some 2.0 60 foots and some 14.0s.

Even with a 3400rpm stall and DRs, I don't think you'll be seeing 1.8 or 1.9 60 foots. I'd say be happy with low 2.1s. Your VE doesn't make quite the torque of the VQ, the 3rd gen is heavier by 90lbs, and you are stuck at launching at 3400rpms. Neal's best of a high 1.8 60' came with a 5000rpm launch on slicks which means he was launching with about 200fwtq in a light 4th gen GXE. It takes torque to launch hard and your auto VE just doesn't have the torque to do a 1.8-1.9. I think slicks are overkill and will probably bog the VE down out of the hole. I'd stick with a 3500rpms stall and 225/50R15 BFG DRs. Hopefully the marginal wheel spin you may get off the line will keep the VE from bogging.

Just my opinions.


Dave

 

Thanks for posting Dave. If I got DRs, they will be 205/50R15 which is a 23.0" OD. I really doubt I will see 1.8s, but 2.0s are VERY possible with this stall since I am already seeing 2.2s. But since nobody has ever done this on a VE Auto, all I can do is just guess. So when I finally get the TC installed, I will be able to try them out on my Toyo T1-S and see how they grip. I'm pretty sure I will over power those since I am already chirping them pretty heavily on a hard launch.

I just hope BFG DRs are WAY stickier than Toyos. Don't get me wrong, Toyos are probably the best street tire out there and the traction is wonderful compared to treadware. But I'm sure the BFGs will stick a lot better.

The VE only has 15 ft-lbs less than the VQ. I will be able to flash right into my peak torque range (3000-5000) with a higher multiplied torque ratio... so I hope I am happy with this mod. I am sure I will be.

Thanks for your thoughts on DRs. I am really leaning towards BFG Gforce 205/50R15 on Millenia wheels.

 

The BFGs feel really sticky and they collect road debris much like I've watched slicks do at the track. Just make sure to do a burnout till you actually see the smoke bellowing out the sides. Most guys seem to air these down to around 15psi. I hope you can pull some 2.0s.


Dave

 

I would go with the BFG DR's if I were you. I think they will fit the bill nicely.

 

Thanks everybody for your input. It was GREATLY appreciated.

After doing some thinking, I realize that I am MUCH slower during the bracket racing season. The temps range from 85-115 degrees while I'm racing. Plus, since I'm 2010 feet in elevation, my times won't be that fast, especially with full interior.

But last season, I ran a LOT of low 16s all during the season with 2.5x 60 foots. That seemed to be my average. So, lets say this TC does shave 3 tenths off my 60', then it will only be 2.2s, which doesn't seem to pose a huge traction problem. So, I should be fine with BFGs.

Now, when I go to a sea level track, where I got my 2.2s (in full track mode), I can easily see my 60's going down to 2.0s. And with 2.0s and good suspension, I won't see traction being THAT big of a problem. In fact sometimes, a light spin of the tires on launch might actually help the motor not to bog.

Thanks again.

*edit* BTW, what is the cheapest/best place to buy these BFG DRs? Tirerack has a good price of a little over $100 each. I will contact Discount Tire and see how well they can match that price. They did that when I bought my Yoko AVS ES100 tires. Anybody have any good place to get BFGs?

 

Aaron did you check the musclecar page at M&H's website?

http://www.intercotire.com/html/muscle-car-drag.htm

They have a 25.4" cheater slick that will fit on a 6.5" wheel. You could probably squeeze it onto a 6" wheel, maybe.

 

WOW thanks. I completely missed that. I doubt I will use this tire, but if worse comes to worse and the BFGs don't work, then I will have to get those tires. Probably just on my stock 15x6.5 wheels. And for '***** out' racing (with nitrous), M&H 23" slicks on the Millenia wheels.

Also, I know Jime's tire shop couldn't get the MT 22x8x15 slicks to fit on the Millenia wheels. I'm not sure how long they tried but I've seen those slicks on many Civics that drag race. And I asked them what sized wheel they had and they said 15x6. But then again, they could easily be wrong about the size. Now those MT slicks on Millenia wheels will be an AWESOME setup for autos.

 

Not trying to take over your thread but, what is the widest tire you can use on a pair of Millenia Rims?

And what year Millenia should I be looking for?

Thanks.
JP

 

I'm not 100% sure on what year Millenias you need to look for... but I think it's 95 and 96. I think there is an 11 spoke and a 12 spoke Millenia wheel. One is 11 lbs and one is 12lbs. Both are 15x6.

I am planning on putting 205/50R15 BFG DRs on my Millenia wheels. I THINK you can go slightly wider... 215. I hope someone else chimes in to confirm my info.