nyoneway

I ran a 95-99 Maxima... very suprised because it's a sleeper. No exhaust, or anything, from what I can tell everything down to the tires look pretty stock (soft sidewalls = cheap tires). But when he floored it, it made this SC whine sound. Very loud and distinct, seems loud at first and then tapers off.

My car traps around 100mph in the quartermile. He seems to be as least as fast. My question is, is it probable that a 95-99 Maxima NA (assuming stick) be trapping 100+ mph and maintain a stock apperance with just bolt-ons (no internal work)? Could it have been possibly supercharged? I apologize if this is a newbie question and if this annoys anyone, the search function did not work for me. I'm just very curious.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Yes, they make a Stillen SC kit for the 4th gen Maximas, which are 95-99. 3rd gen is 89-94.

I believe a couple guys are able to trap at 100mph all motor with their 5spd. But that takes a lot of bolt ons. But if a stock Maxima slapped on a SC kit and did intake and good exhaust, yes, it can easily be trapping 100mph in the 1/4 mile.

I think most normal SC'd 4th gens run high 13s in the 1/4 mile. And then you can turn it up from there.

nyoneway

Aaron92SE, thanks for answering my question.

That car had a stock exhaust. I am convinced he's supercharged and very improbable that he kept it NA and did not do anything to his exhaust. I am still not sure whether it was a manual or auto.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

You can do exhaust work and still be perfectly quiet. Us Maximas change out to a better Ypipe (aka downpipe). It won't effect the volume of the exhaust unless you swap out catback exhausts.

But, I agree, it's very improbable that he was NA b/c there's only a couple that I know of that can come close to 100mph trap speeds NA. And plus, the SC kit is SO popular with people not familar with this website.

Also, now a days, everybody is slapping on 75 shot nitrous kits on their grocery getter. But you said you heard a SC whine, so I'm pretty sure it was SC'd.

BTW, what car do you have and what do you run in the 1/4 mile? I'm just curious, that's all.

nyoneway

He can do all the exhaust work he wants, but if his tailpipe and muffler is stock, he' just moving the bottleneck down the line.

I have a 2001 Celica GT-S and the only time I ran in the track is 2 years ago. I had a intake/exhaust, short shifter, no spare tire/jack, 1/4 tank, 20psi front tires, gas and ran a 14.4 @ 97mph at sea level track, temp is around 60's. Trapping 100mph is only a estimate.

My mods now:

Engine Performance:
AEM Cold Air Intake
Trial Header
Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
UO Pulley Kit
Apexi S-AFC
Royal Purple Oil
Denso Power Plugs

Tranny:
TRD Street Clutch
TRD Lightweight Chromoly Flywheel
TRD Clutch Type LSD
Redline Tranny Fluid
B&M Shortshifter
Momo Shiftknob

Suspension:
TRD Peformance Struts
TRD Peformance Springs
Hotchkis Front & Rear Sway Bars
APR Front Strut Bar
Custom Rear Hatch Brace
Engine Chassis Brace
17x7 Volk Racing LE-37T w/
225/45/17 Toyo T1-S Tires
17x7.5 SSR Competition w/
225/45/17 Bridgestone S-03 Tires

Body:
Metallic Silver Paint
Fiberimages Carbon Fiber Hood
C-One Hoodscoop
Kaminari Bodykit
Kaminari Adjustable Race Wing
S2000 Antenna
Redout Taillights
APC Sidemarker
K2 4100k HID Headlights

Electrical:
Kenwood Z828 MP3/CD Headunit
Rockford Fosgate FNQ Component Speakers
Infinity Perfect 10" Subwoofers
PPI 4 Channel Amp
PPI Subwoofer AMP
XM Radio
Optima Red-Top Battery
Ground Wire Kit

Interior:
Sparco Milano Racing Seat
TRD Seatbelt Pad
Painted Blue Console
Custom Full Pillard Gauge Pod
Volt Gauge
A/F Gauge
Autometer 5" Rev. Meter & Shiftlight

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

That's a nice car. I know the GT-S's can be made pretty quick.

About the exhaust, that is a common misconception. You aren't just moving the bottleneck down the line, you are getting rid of the biggest restriction in the Maxima's exhaust, the Ypipe. On average, we get 3-5 tenths faster in the 1/4 mile just by swapping out the Ypipe and NOTHING else. So it's a nice gain of 15+hp for only $200. The next restriction would be the muffler, and that's only good for about one tenth in the 1/4 mile and then you start getting loud.

I don't know how the downpipe design is on the GT-S, but I can imagine it's pretty efficient as far as flow. But b/c we have a V6, the right bank exhaust flows AGAINST traffic towards the left bank exhaust and since it has to turn a 180, it's a pretty big restriction. I'm thinking Nissan did this for backpressure and noise reasons. Maybe economy too... who knows.

But nice car! Be careful of those Maxima sleepers. Don't worry b/c you won't come across many.

Chinkzilla

i have a stock exhaust from the cat-back...

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

My car looks very stock, even my drop is not noticeable to anyone but maxima/I30 owners. Stock cat-back, stock wheels...

I trap 98mph all the time and have seen 99mph traps a few times. I only have 3 "real" bolt on mods. Computer upgrade, Y-pipe, and different intake manifold.

I bet I cause people confusion all the time when they see me on the street or the track.

nyoneway

That's a impressive time. My dad have a 1998 Infinity I30T (auto) and I enjoy driving that car but its more luxury than speed. It's stock so it doesn't feel that fast.

I am certain that the car I ran is trapping more than 100mph, not 99. Althought it is possible that he is NA, I don't believe it to be - I did hear a unmistakable sound of a supercharger when he WOT next to me. I have no problems pulling on near stock 6sp 350z, G35 Coupe, and E36 M3, etc - just some cars in the 14 flat range. I'm not here to brag, just looking to be educated and know more about the Max I ran.

Anyways, I never knew the earlier gen Maxima and Infinity's were that fast with just bolt-ons.

Thanks everyone for their input. This is probably the best board I've been to when it comes to attitude.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Having the manual tranny helps a bit too.

Dave B

For those us that have heard SC Maximas, we can tell you they don't hiss. Like I said before on the Celica site, you raced an NA Maxima with a Y-pipe and that's where the hiss came from. You've only trapped 97mph and you have no other slips showing that you're doing 100mph. You're using other Celica's with similiar mods as your basis for your "100mph" traps. The ricer arguments need to stop.

nyoneway

1. When did I said it sounded like a "hiss"? Please read my post. This is according to Stillen's website. http://www.stillen.com/Sportscars_de...id=3154&page=1

2. I trapped 97mph with only I/E. My car is considerable faster since then. So you're saying if I can't prove that my car is faster since I ran 97mph trap with I/E, it's not? Since then I added:

Lightweight rims (SSR Comp)/Trial Header/TRD Flywheel/TRD LSD/TRD Clutch/UO Underdrive Pulley Set/MAF Mod/S-AFC/Gutted Trunk/
(argue if you want about these) Denso Power Plugs/Ground Wire/Royal Purple Oil

I am not using other Celica's with similiar mods, I am using Celica times with LESS mods. Am I being unreasonable here? Are you said if I can't prove my car is faster with a track #, I can't say it is even tho I after all these mods?

3. You are more of a "ricer" in your own words because you are speculating and assuming more than I am.

Dave B

Here's your post from NewCelica.org:

I ran one today. Looked stock, exhaust and everything, sleeper. He got next to me and floored it. At first I was wondering where the sound came from and whether his car had a exhaust leaked, then I realized (later on) that the sound was from a supercharger.

He instigated and taunted me for the next 10 minutes, after we stopped at the 95 toll, I took his bait and decided to play.

With him on the lead and me giving chase, he slowly pulled away from me from 40 to 110mph.... the 2nd time, I floored it the same time and was able to stuck by him till 120 or so.

How fast does these things run? I'm not sure whether its auto or manual...its the old bodystyle 95-99 Maxima... My car probably trap around 100mph right now and I figure he's maybe at 101-102mph.....

all stock apperance... definately a sleeper.

Maybe I am jumping to assumptions, but when people say exhaust leak, that usually means missing, not a supercharge whine. Those are two completely different noises. Why did he walk you? He has more average torque which comes into play in high speed racing when you're trying to split the air.

It's all speculation. Whether you're a Maxima owner or Celica owner, we don't like "speculative" racing. It's either you've done it or you haven't.

Dave B =

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Dave, at no point did this guy come onto our board looking to pick a fight. He simply asked a question about the car he raced. And it got answered.

If he can estimate that he has a 100mph trap speed, let him. So what. I think I have some 95mph traps in me in good weather since I've already done several 94s.

This is what I'm reading when I read this post. Newbie comes on here asking a question. Me and him converse for a little while. Mike mentions how fast his car is. Newbie guy gives props. Then you start dissing him saying that he doesn't know up from down or exhaust leak from SC whine. So what if he's not sure? That's why he came on this board to look for some answers.

Maybe I don't understand where you're coming from. But from what I read, it sounded like you are out to get him for some reason. I am missing the part where he said "VQ 5spds suck". I am saying, he never came up here trying to start an arguement. Just my 2 cents.

nyoneway

Maybe I am jumping to assumptions, but when people say exhaust leak, that usually means missing, not a supercharge whine. Those are two completely different noises. Why did he walk you? He has more average torque which comes into play in high speed racing when you're trying to split the air.

It's all speculation. Whether you're a Maxima owner or Celica owner, we don't like "speculative" racing. It's either you've done it or you haven't.



There's no "speculative" racing here. I was suprised by a sleeper, all I wanted to "speculate" is what he has reasonably under the hood after the race. That's what you are doing. Torque needed to split air? This is the most "ricer" comment I heard from you yet. To "split air" you need to have good aerodynamics and horsepower. Torque is a function of horsepower and engine speed, when people say torque, they mean low end grunt to get you off the line. Horsepower is a better comparison once you get your car going.

I would assume my car, a 2001 Celica, lowered 2".... would have much better aerodynamics than a 95-99 Square shaped Maxima on stock height.

Dave B

I see where you're coming from, but I've been dealing with this guy over at newcelica.org with the same post "SC Maxima vs GT-S" post. I gave him the evidence he demanded and he choose to attack my credibility so I've been laying it out for him. Sure, he comes across as a nice guy here, but if you were to venture to NewCelica.org racing forum (can't be linked), you'll see what I'm saying. He's not liked by his Celica peers either. He's a bench racer.

nyoneway

Thanks Aaron92SE, I'm not here to pick a fight or brag. I asked a reasonable question and I was looking for an reasonable answer. If I ran the "fastest stock looking Maxima" on this board, I probably lose, but chances are I didn't not run into THAT Maxima that day. What I found out here is how fast 4gen can run with just a couple of bolt-ons, I am totally surprise and respect that. All I'm saying is that, whether its "ricer arguement" or not, I am sure that the car I ran was even faster than just boltons.

I'm only here to find an answer to my curiosity.

Dave B, I respect your knowledge of your car and Maxima. But point being is that you weren't there that day, and I am far from being what you called a ricer. I can't prove how fast my car is without showing a track slip... even then its questionable because 1. it depends on track, temp, weather, etc and whether I'm honest about what I have in my car and weight reduction.

Using your arguement that even tho many people who has LESS mods than my car have run faster than 100mph trap, it doesn't mean that I can. It also means that althought you can hit 99mph best on your car, it doesn't mean the car I ran has those same mods because he is as fast as me.

Now you keep on insisting that the car I ran is NA. Can you point out why can't it be a supercharged auto with Y pipe?

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

You know what? I'll race both of you guys! LOL When you get beat by an old 1992 automatic, then you will have a different point of view. jk ...

... unless you really want to race

Dave B

Yes, HP is a factor of torque, however a 5 speed Maxima with the typical bolt-ons makes a lot more average power over a broader range rpm hence the term "power under the curve". The VQ motor has a very flat torque curve and it typically makes about 80wtq more than the 1.8 DOHC in the GT-S. This broader and thicker powerband allows a modified NA Maxima to accelerate harder as the MPH increases. Wind resistance increases dramatically as you go over therefore the broader the powerband, the better. In comparision, the 1.8 DOHC has a peaky and very short powerband. Above 100mph, the acceleration will suffer due to the lack of torque.

Dave B

I'd shoot myself if I got beat by a 3rd gen NA auto with zipped tied springs j/k

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Who said I have zip tied springs? I certainly don't. But if traction ever becomes a problem on full slicks, then I will certainly modify my suspension with rear spring boosters and front zip ties. But right now, 2.17 60' without zip ties.

nyoneway

Whether I'm a nice guy here or at newcelica.org has nothing to do with the point. If you say I'm a bench racer and speculating, what have you been doing? The point of this post/questions is about specualting, I'm asking for everyone's honest opionion and educated guess. You are telling me the fact of the race like you were there and you know more about the situation than what I did.

Such compelling evidence you laid out for me in www.newcelica.org, link it if you please so you can show everyone what you're talking about. All you show to me is that you ran a 99mph trap best, has nothing to do with the car I ran.

I see your timeslips and I am impressed that you ran those times. I am not refuting the fact that the Maxima is very responsive to boltons and can run great times.

However, I can't prove to you how fast my car is currently because I don't know and I can only speculate. All I know is that it is noticebly faster than the 14.46@97mph I ran 2 years back.

Anyways, I think its time for this to come to a closure, there's no need for any bickering. It's not my intentions here to start a fight. I already gotten a satisfactory answer to my question and learn a couple of things.

Thanks everyone for your time.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I hope Dave didn't ruin the rep of the Maxima community. We are really nice enthusiasts. Some are haters, some aren't.

nyoneway

Yes maybe true only if you compare engines directly. But you did not consider in tranny/gear ratios.

Using your theory, diesel cars with more torque than horsepower should have better top end right? But wait, torque is what moves the car off the line, so they should be faster from the start...so they are just faster, period. You should just wipe "hp" out of the equation (if that's possible) because according to you, torque is more important for acceleration.

Reality is, you did not factor in 2 things in your theory. That is RPM + Gear Ratio.

Here's a good read:
http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/torque_bhp_part2_2.htm

Aaron, no I'm not in a bad mood. I think me and Dave started on the wrong foot over in newcelica.org because I was involved in some nasty bickering with a known "d1ckhead" who's about to get banned and Dave came in with his opionion. You know how it is on the Internet.

I don't mind a friendly discussion. Please stop the name calling.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Torque is not what just moves a car off the line, it's what moves the car, period. I'm tired of hearing "torque is what gets you off the line but then HP takes over on top-end." That is completely false. You can't feel HP. HP is not a measure of a force. It's a measure of work an engine can do in a given gear over unit time (RPM) based on an arbitrary value for 1 HP. How much torque an engine can produce throughout the rev-range is what counts.

You are right about the gear ratios in a way. The 2ZZ-FE engine doesn't make much torque, so it relies heavily on torque multiplication via short gearing. But at higher speeds the torque multiplication effect is less pronounced with the longer gears, so it comes down to how much average wheel-torque the engine can produce in the last 1/3 of the rev-range.

Dave B

Torque is what moves you off the line, but it's also the same thing accelerating you. HP is just a function of torque. Diesel engines only reiterate my point. I had stated earlier that power (ie flat torque) over a broad range rpm (ie linear HP) results in the best performance because you get a motor that is very flexible and can accelerate the car at low or higher rpms. A diesel is a work horse. Torque is a related to how much work a motor can do over a span of time. A turbo diesel can do a crap load of work very quickly, but at a cost. The diesel has a very short and defined powerband which why many late model diesels make only 300hp, but a whopping 550+ ft/lbs of torque. Most turbo diesels only rev to ~3500rpms (redline) with a powerband from ~1200-3000rpms. The reason most diesels aren't fast is because of their short powerbands, 6000-7000lbs curb weights, and brick aerodynamics. That's not to say I haven't witnessed a handful of Dodge Ram turbo diesels spin 500whp/1100wtq on the dyno or pull sub 14-second 1/4 mile passes. You can make turbo diesels quick, for a price.

In a nutshell power vs acceleration works out like this:

1) Lower peak HP numbers in relation to peak torque = small powerband, lowend power, torquey engine, lacks topend. Common examples would be turbodiesels, GM's supercharged 3.8 liter models, Mustang 5.0, 350 TPI F-Body.

2) Higher peak HP numbers in relation to peak torque = small powerband, lacks lowend power, strong high rpm power. Common examples would be NA 4 cylinder motors.

3) Peak HP numbers close to peak torque numbers = large powerband, flexible engine at nearly every rpm, more power under the curve, strong lowend, midrange, and topend power. Common V8 examples would be the LS1 F-Body/C5 Corvette, 03+ Mustang Cobra, AMG supercharged Benz motors. Common 6 cylinder example would be Nissan's VQ series and BMW's inline 6.

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

nyoneway: I give you props, you have a freak of a celica. Most that I have ran out here in Cali are no sweat to take off the line and all the way til whatever we stop at.

nyoneway

"completely false". In math/physics it may not be the correct way to explain it, but in real life terms, yes, that's how its percieved.

We're not talking about what "moving the car". We're discussing acceleration = work done over a period of time which equals to horsepower.

And when you talk about rev range, you fail to mention that 100tq from say 3000-6500 is less power than 80tq from 6000-8150. The higher the rev range, the more HP + gearing multiplication = power put to the group,

So HP + gearing is a better indication of acceleration than saying "I got more torque than you, so my car is faster argument". This is what I was trying to explain.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I'm trying hard to refrain from getting into this whole HP vs Torque thing because I don't want to be involved in this argument as it seems it's more personal than anything.

So back to the issue at hand, a supercharged auto running the stock pully with no other major mods would probably be a close race for a celica trapping 100mph. I think the probability that it was a 5spd supercharged is remote, it is my opinion such a car would outrun you.

The thing that is puzzling to me is the discrepancy with regards to what the sound was like, since I wasn't there I'll never know for sure obviously, but an exhaust leaking maxima and a supercharged maxima have 2 very different sounds.

Maybe it was an auto supercharged, maybe it was a pretty fast NA max, or perhaps it was a nitroused auto running like a 50 shot? That would be in the same ballpark, around 100mph traps.


EDIT: Oh I forgot to answer the one other question you had, the muffler thing isn't really indicative of anything, some of the fastest NA guys are actually (or were actually) running with stock mufflers for a long long time. I was running 13.6s on slicks and 13.9s on street tires on a totally stock exhaust system from the catalytic converter all the way back and still trapped over 100. There are no noticeable gains to be had with catback exhaust on our cars, maybe on the order of 3hp.

Dave B

I suggest you read this and you'll understand what I'm saying:

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

nyoneway

I read it, I don't think you did, because the link you send me totally support what I'm saying.

Your arguement is that you have more peak torque than I do, so according to you, you can "split air" and accelerates better at high speeds - disregarding horsepower.

My arguement is that my powerband is from 6000-8350 rpm, and my 6sp gearing can keep me in my powerband indefinately. Because my powerband is much higher than yours + gearing, it essentially is a advantage.

Your arguement only wins if my car as the same gearing as yours and my powerband is in the same RPM range as yours. But given its not, you need to understand how torque is transfered to the wheels over a period of time and that's what gives you horsepower.

So horsepower is a better direct comparison because it takes RPM into account.


"The Case For Horsepower
OK. If torque is so all-fired important, why do we care about horsepower?
Because (to quote a friend), "It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of *gearing*."

"At The Bonneville Salt Flats
Looking at top speed, horsepower wins again, in the sense that making more torque at high rpm means you can use a stiffer gear for any given car speed, and thus have more effective torque *at the drive wheels*."

Dave B

You're modded GT-S making ~105-125wtq from 6000-8300rpms in a 2600lb GT-S (stock weight). The GT-S average torque is ~115wtq over it's 6300-8300rpm powerband.

A VQ's with the MEVI, ECU, intake, and y-pipe is making ~190-150wtq from 5000-7000rpms in a 2930lb Maxima (stock weight). The VQ's average torque is ~170wtq over it's 5000-7000rpm powerband.

Just because your GT-S revs higher to make HP doesn't necessarily mean it's a better setup for topend acceleration You're completely missing the point the author was making in the article.

nyoneway

I never said the Celica is BETTER at top end acceleration. The whole point of this arguement in response to your statement:

"He has more average torque which comes into play in high speed racing when you're trying to split the air."

I'm trying to show you that top end torque (last 1/3 of the powerband) + gearing is more important than "average torque". Obviously (just a example) if I make 125tq between 7000-10000RPM is more HP than say if you make 200tq from 1000-5000RPM.

You also have to factor in gearing. If you shift from 7000rpm on your Maxima in 2nd gear, what RPM will you land on in 3rd? That's the RPM you should use to start your powerband. I doubt you land on 5000rpm.

If you can give me a dyno, gearing, wheel size & width of YOUR modded Maxima , I can make a Excel sheet that compare MPH & HP/Tq to the ground between the 2 cars.

BTW, its funny how you just make up weights for the 2 cars. How bout you use the listed curb weight by the manufacturer?

2001 Celica GTS: 2500lbs
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2001/toy...nav..6.Toyota*

1996 Maxima SE: 3010lbs
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1996/nis...nav..6.Nissan*

Chinkzilla

sorry, that's wrong.

horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252

You have it backwards. You can't separate horsepower and torque, it just doesn't work that way. It's an old misconception that somehow there are two forces at work in your motor, and torque gets you off the line but magically at a certain rpm horsepower takes over.

Looks can be decieving:

2001 Celica GTS
Coefficient of drag (Cd): 0.32

1999 Maxima SE
Coefficient of drag (Cd): 0.32

Chinkzilla

someone get SteVTEC in here..

nyoneway

I never tried to seperate TQ and HP, but to differenciate it by factoring in RPM. You can have a high torque engine but low HP (diesel), and high HP engine but low TQ (S2000). Given either engine has a usable powerband and gearing to take advantage of it, I would pick the higher HP/rev one for racing.

I never said stock Celica have better drag coefficient. I my LOWERED cars have better aerodynamics. Mine hugs the floor, you need to take that into account.

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

His celica probably has better drag because of that nice adjustable alluminum wing that stabilizes the rear and plants the rear tires to the ground thus taking pressure off the front tires (true race car style) also, that 2" drop hugging the floor REALLY helps! the handling must be crazy insane or insane crazy.

nyoneway

That too.

How dare you mistaken my CF wing for cheap alum! The nerve...argh.!

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

oh sorry! CF = lighter especially when you are adding to something and not replacing it. I bet the body kit also helps with the drag. Also must not forget that royal purple race fluid.