rear drag suspension
11-02-2007, 08:36 AM
#81
Well, yesterday I finished everything up and had a good time testing everything out.
1/8" Zinc Coated Cable:
Rear Blocks installed along with the front compressed slightly with the cable:
This setup works GREAT. The real test is sticking your head out the window while rolling in reverse going about 5mph and then hit the brakes while watching the wheel well. The front end of the car doesn't move AT ALL. The only rise that may happen is the sidewall of my tires expanding.
Now I had a lot of time to test launching everything once I made sure the cable wasn't going to slip.
If the road is smooth, I can see how this will help a lot. But if I'm accelerating through 1st gear without nitrous and if I hit a tiny little bump, the tires break completely lose whereas I would have had decent traction before. So this isn't a mod that is going to help any kind of street traction since there isn't any rebound anymore. But on a smooth track surface, it should help a LOT.
I hit the 75 shot a few times in 1st gear and couldn't get anything to hook up like I could before. So my street traction in a straight line has gone to crap just b/c there are always going to be bumps. I hope to test everything at the track next Thursday night when I see 12s!
Thanks for your help Jime.
1/8" Zinc Coated Cable:
Rear Blocks installed along with the front compressed slightly with the cable:
This setup works GREAT. The real test is sticking your head out the window while rolling in reverse going about 5mph and then hit the brakes while watching the wheel well. The front end of the car doesn't move AT ALL. The only rise that may happen is the sidewall of my tires expanding.
Now I had a lot of time to test launching everything once I made sure the cable wasn't going to slip.
If the road is smooth, I can see how this will help a lot. But if I'm accelerating through 1st gear without nitrous and if I hit a tiny little bump, the tires break completely lose whereas I would have had decent traction before. So this isn't a mod that is going to help any kind of street traction since there isn't any rebound anymore. But on a smooth track surface, it should help a LOT.
I hit the 75 shot a few times in 1st gear and couldn't get anything to hook up like I could before. So my street traction in a straight line has gone to crap just b/c there are always going to be bumps. I hope to test everything at the track next Thursday night when I see 12s!
Thanks for your help Jime.
11-02-2007, 09:28 AM
#82
If the road is smooth, I can see how this will help a lot. But if I'm accelerating through 1st gear without nitrous and if I hit a tiny little bump, the tires break completely lose whereas I would have had decent traction before. So this isn't a mod that is going to help any kind of street traction since there isn't any rebound anymore. But on a smooth track surface, it should help a LOT.
I hit the 75 shot a few times in 1st gear and couldn't get anything to hook up like I could before. So my street traction in a straight line has gone to crap just b/c there are always going to be bumps. I hope to test everything at the track next Thursday night when I see 12s!
I hit the 75 shot a few times in 1st gear and couldn't get anything to hook up like I could before. So my street traction in a straight line has gone to crap just b/c there are always going to be bumps. I hope to test everything at the track next Thursday night when I see 12s!
I do like your method of moving backwards and hitting the brakes to check for upward movement - that's useful.
11-02-2007, 09:36 AM
#83
If your track has bumps like this, it would be pretty dangerous. I know little cracks and tiny bumps don't help traction either, but I am referring to pot holes and huge bumps in the road.
I have tested the launch a few times on a smooth flat street and it's perfect. Traction is definitely improved. My track is very crappy with subtle bumps and cracks too, but nothing that I think will cause my tires to suddenly break lose.
Once you have a plan on how to route the cable, you can do the entire job in only a few hours. I spent countless hours just staring at my struts. lol
Edit: You are good at editing your message just after I quote you.
But yeah, going in reverse and hitting the brakes seems to put WAY more strain on the front struts and you don't have to go fast either. But, going forward WITH SLICKS might be a different story. But launching with street tires just spins them without the front end rising at all. It's like spinning your tires on a go cart without a suspension.
Last edited by Aaron92SE; 11-02-2007 at 09:39 AM.
11-02-2007, 12:15 PM
#84
When I say the word bump, I'm talking about going through an intersection at WOT. When I hit that large bump and suddenly come off of it, the front struts can't rebound like they should, so the tires break lose.
If your track has bumps like this, it would be pretty dangerous. I know little cracks and tiny bumps don't help traction either, but I am referring to pot holes and huge bumps in the road.
I have tested the launch a few times on a smooth flat street and it's perfect. Traction is definitely improved. My track is very crappy with subtle bumps and cracks too, but nothing that I think will cause my tires to suddenly break lose.
Once you have a plan on how to route the cable, you can do the entire job in only a few hours. I spent countless hours just staring at my struts. lol
Edit: You are good at editing your message just after I quote you. But yeah, going in reverse and hitting the brakes seems to put WAY more strain on the front struts and you don't have to go fast either. But, going forward WITH SLICKS might be a different story. But launching with street tires just spins them without the front end rising at all. It's like spinning your tires on a go cart without a suspension.
If your track has bumps like this, it would be pretty dangerous. I know little cracks and tiny bumps don't help traction either, but I am referring to pot holes and huge bumps in the road.
I have tested the launch a few times on a smooth flat street and it's perfect. Traction is definitely improved. My track is very crappy with subtle bumps and cracks too, but nothing that I think will cause my tires to suddenly break lose.
Once you have a plan on how to route the cable, you can do the entire job in only a few hours. I spent countless hours just staring at my struts. lol
Edit: You are good at editing your message just after I quote you.
But yeah, going in reverse and hitting the brakes seems to put WAY more strain on the front struts and you don't have to go fast either. But, going forward WITH SLICKS might be a different story. But launching with street tires just spins them without the front end rising at all. It's like spinning your tires on a go cart without a suspension.I read this part of your message:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"If the road is smooth, I can see how this will help a lot. But if I'm accelerating through 1st gear without nitrous and if I hit a tiny little bump, the tires break completely lose whereas I would have had decent traction before. So this isn't a mod that is going to help any kind of street traction since there isn't any rebound anymore. But on a smooth track surface, it should help a LOT.
I hit the 75 shot a few times in 1st gear and couldn't get anything to hook up like I could before. So my street traction in a straight line has gone to crap just b/c there are always going to be bumps."
------------------------------------------------------------
and just assumed the worst. "Bumps are bad when you're strapped down" or something like that...
I've done some reading on the subject following stuff in this thread, and others have said that even one inch of travel in the front suspension is BAD. I think a rigid front suspension would be bad when negotiating a track, doing burnouts, and using the return road. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.... I know why my slicks spun - using a combined 150-shot in first gear.
On the bright side, you progressed to using a 75-shot in record time. Great fun, isn't it? And now I'm driving a NA car.... for now.
Not to detract from what you're doing and discovering - get on a track and find out what really happens! and tell us about it....
EDIT: I waited 5 minutes before inserting this edit.
Last edited by grey99max; 11-02-2007 at 12:21 PM.
11-02-2007, 03:12 PM
#85
A 150 shot shot in 1st gear will definitely spin them regardless of your suspension.
You got that right!Having a suspension such as this on a smooth track surface should be the best setup. It is for the 4th gen Maxima chassis since Jime has 60 foots to back it up. I don't care what bumps I get on the street and the return road at the track. And the burnout doesn't matter. All I care about is launching once my slicks are heated up while at the track. On a smooth street, I do have better traction for sure. But if I hit a small dip in the road, HANG ON to that steering wheel cause the tires are going to spin even if I'm at 40mph!
Now that I can feel subtle bumps easier, I may notice that my local track isn't as smooth as I am thinking. I know it's not a good track, but I just hope it relatively smooth. During my next time out, if I can't do at least 1.8s in the 60 foot, then something is wrong and I may decide to let out the cable a little bit. Jime said his front springs aren't compressed. He just had the cables tight. With me, the distance from the top to the bottom perch is 4.8" stock with Eibach/Koni setup. After the cables were installed, I made that distance 4.5" from top to bottom. So my springs are compressed a little bit more than a 1/4". That may be what's causing me to bounce a little bit after the launch from 20-40mph. Or it could be the sucky street surface I'm on or my tires spinning or hopping.
I have the 100 shot jets already. But I won't put them in until I hit the track with race fuel and feel confident with launching with the 50 and 75 shot. I hope to see 125-150 shot before the end of winter.
11-05-2007, 03:40 PM
#86
Now that I've had more time to test this setup out. I have a few more thoughts.
Like I said earlier, straight line traction is VERY VERY crappy if the road is not flat and smooth.
But I got a chance to do several test launches on a flat and smooth surface comparable to most 1/4 mile tracks I've raced on. Traction is drastically improved! I can now STOMP on the gas and immediately go WOT and only get about a half second of wheelspin on street tires, then I'm off. Without securing the front spring perches, the car would just sit there and spin for probably 2 seconds, then sometimes it would hook up and sometimes it would just go straight to redline.
Whenever traction is going to be crappy b/c of an uneven road surface, the front of the car would bob up and down like a Civic on cut springs. But if the road is smooth, the front end doesn't bob at all.
Earlier today, I stepped on the gas in the low part of 1st gear while in a turn on a bumpy normal street surface and got nothing but inconsistant wheelspin. It's not hopping. But it would spin, then grip about 3 times throughout first gear. It REALLY sucks for street driving! It feels like someone playing with your nitrous switch, shutting it off and on, while at WOT.
So far, this is a GREAT "track only" mod. Like Matt mentioned earlier with sticking the loop through a hole in the lower spring perch, that should be the best setup if you plan on ever going WOT on the street.
I just may rig this up after I get back from the track. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated if I find anything else new.
Like I said earlier, straight line traction is VERY VERY crappy if the road is not flat and smooth.
But I got a chance to do several test launches on a flat and smooth surface comparable to most 1/4 mile tracks I've raced on. Traction is drastically improved! I can now STOMP on the gas and immediately go WOT and only get about a half second of wheelspin on street tires, then I'm off. Without securing the front spring perches, the car would just sit there and spin for probably 2 seconds, then sometimes it would hook up and sometimes it would just go straight to redline.
Whenever traction is going to be crappy b/c of an uneven road surface, the front of the car would bob up and down like a Civic on cut springs. But if the road is smooth, the front end doesn't bob at all.
Earlier today, I stepped on the gas in the low part of 1st gear while in a turn on a bumpy normal street surface and got nothing but inconsistant wheelspin. It's not hopping. But it would spin, then grip about 3 times throughout first gear. It REALLY sucks for street driving! It feels like someone playing with your nitrous switch, shutting it off and on, while at WOT.
So far, this is a GREAT "track only" mod. Like Matt mentioned earlier with sticking the loop through a hole in the lower spring perch, that should be the best setup if you plan on ever going WOT on the street.
I just may rig this up after I get back from the track. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated if I find anything else new.
11-10-2007, 09:36 AM
#87
Update:
I just got back from the track last night and had a chance to test out my new drag suspension.
You can read up on the times I got here:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=544415
But about the locked spring perches... they helped a TON!! I was able to get the 75 shot to hook on the launch one time and get a 1.80 60 foot. After that, the track prep went to crap and I could only get 2.0s while spraying out of the hole with the 75 shot.
Before I tried the 75 shot, I made two passes with the 50 shot first. I did back to back 1.82 60 foots with a 12.95 ET. The 50 shot is easy to get to hook with this suspension.
Without the locked spring perches, the best I could do on the slicks with the 50 shot was 1.97!! So keeping the front end from rising helped out a LOT!
The car didn't bob up and down or anything. Since most track surfaces are somewhat smooth, I think this is the best setup for any 1/4 mile track. I have some videos of the launch doing my 1.8s and my friends said the car doesn't lift at all. Last time, the front end looked like it wanted to come off the ground.
Once I get those videos from my friend in the next couple days, I'll be able to see what the car looks like on the launch.
I just got back from the track last night and had a chance to test out my new drag suspension.
You can read up on the times I got here:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=544415
But about the locked spring perches... they helped a TON!! I was able to get the 75 shot to hook on the launch one time and get a 1.80 60 foot. After that, the track prep went to crap and I could only get 2.0s while spraying out of the hole with the 75 shot.
Before I tried the 75 shot, I made two passes with the 50 shot first. I did back to back 1.82 60 foots with a 12.95 ET. The 50 shot is easy to get to hook with this suspension.
Without the locked spring perches, the best I could do on the slicks with the 50 shot was 1.97!! So keeping the front end from rising helped out a LOT!
The car didn't bob up and down or anything. Since most track surfaces are somewhat smooth, I think this is the best setup for any 1/4 mile track. I have some videos of the launch doing my 1.8s and my friends said the car doesn't lift at all. Last time, the front end looked like it wanted to come off the ground.
Once I get those videos from my friend in the next couple days, I'll be able to see what the car looks like on the launch.
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