transfrmr

Hey all,

I posted a thread asking for help a couple of weeks ago with some issues about the GXE's audio system in the audio section, but got no replies.

Mainly if anyone has tried to put 6 1/2 speakers in the front doors and how much of a chore that is.

Also If there is an amp already in the car, what the power of it is and whether it's on front and back speakers or just back. (not off the headunit, I mean a seperate amp...)

Thanks for the help, Maybe I'll get an answer here!

Charles Bisel

I haven't replaced the front speakers, but you have to remove the door panel in order to do it, so it is a bit of a b*tch to do compared to other cars. Also, you can fit 6.75" speakers up front, sometimes they are called 'oversized 6.5"'s'. The main thing you want to be concerned with is speaker depth, a really large speaker in terms of depth could cause problems with the windows.

As far as the amp goes, the graphic equalizer also functions as the amp for the head unit. It powers all four speakers. There are no other amplifiers in the car.

-C-

transfrmr

Thanks again for the great info..

I had already figured that removing the door panels would be necessary after taking a look at them, but thanks big time for the tip on the oversized 6.5's, I'll definitely look into it! I figured speaker depth would be an issue here, but it's no problem, I've made mounting spacers before and will probably do it again

And thanks for the tip on the EQ, I'll probably be pulling it all, and using aftermarket amps for both inside speakers and subwoofer(s), but Now I know what's up.

The main thing I'm going to have to figure out is what to do with all the extra space on the dash once I remove radio, eq and clock (will undoubtedly be one on the new headunit)..

insidentally, are the stock fronts 6.5's already or 5 1/4's? I've heard different from different people and don't want to pull the panels untill I'm ready to swap in some new equipment..

This may be answered when i buy the Haynes or CHiltons soon anyways.

Thanks again!

maximase86

iTrader: (24)

You know, you could do a couple of things with the extra space. You can put a double din head unit in, or you can put a single din head unit, and single din equalizer in. They also have kits so you can cover up the remaining space.

S

transfrmr

I had a kit in my 86 Firenza.

I figure if I could find one for that car there had to be one for this one, I might put in a 1/2 din eq and use the rest of the space for switches/future mods.

It's just hard to settle on one Idea when i keep thinking of better ones.. lol, but then again it's always that way isn't it?

One thing I know is I don't need a tv in my car. but an Eq might be nice. That also depends on which head unit I get though.. Argh.. it's an evil loop that leads to insanity this car audio stuff.

Thanks again for the replies though I felt bad posting this in the "wrong" forum, but no-one seemed to have a clue about even the speaker size in the audio forum and I figured it was because it's a 2nd Gen...

jayfresh

Whats up kid? Check it...

You can put either 6 1/2" or 4" speakers in the front, maybe some 5 1/4". I should know cause I got an '88 Max with custom sound system which I did myself. I had 4" speakers in the front a while back, it required an adapter which I got from Crutchfield. NOW, I got some 6 1/2" speakers in the front. Fits just right, except that 2 screws went in perfectly and the other 1 didn't go all the way in.

Anyway, if ya want 6 1/2" in the front, look for good ones, and make sure the depth is no more than 2" cause it would be a lil' problem if it was. And ya gots to be careful with the panel 'cause it could crack or break, do it like a pro, not all insane.

As for the back speakers, most likely ya can fit in Polk Audio's 5" or ANY 4" speaker. The back don't require depth limits so ya drop in any 4", and it would fit right, I know I done this 3 times. You could also drop in some 5 1/4", BUT it won't fit properly! Ya can just lay them there with NO speaker housing. Just stick with the 4".

There is no amps in the car, just the headunit provides wattage to the speakers. Also the usual stock setup on speakers is 5 1/4" to 6" in the front and 5" in the back. Also get an adapter for the front area where ya gonna drop in ya head unit, that way there no empty space. Cop yourself some high quality gear, like rubber surrounded - poly coned speakers with high RMS rating and wide frequency response. And match 'em up with a excellent stereo that features almost the same ratings as the speakers or vice versa.

There ya go my 2 cents...if ya need more help I get to you as much as I know. I'm not an superior wizard at this, but I do know what I'm talking about, I know a lot more about electronics, I have experience in this game, and I am a DeeJay.

Good Luck. Peace.

transfrmr

Thanks Jayfresh,

I'll probably be putting in 6 1/2's in both the front and back. Even if I have to build a whole new back deck to do so, I think it's worth it for the better results.

Thanks for the tip on the brittle door panels, I'm definitely not touching them t'ill I have the time to do it right anyways. I figure I'll spend about a month planning out the install and then start getting what I'll need, and figuring out what to use out of the equipment I already have.

For the speakers themselves, I'll probably be going with infinitys. Thanks too for the two inch tip, now I have an actual depth to look for before I open up the door panel and look myself.

My basic plan is as follows:

6 1/2's front and back.
Headunit and possibly Eq
Either an install kit, or I may make one myself out of fiberglass for the dash.

I'll probably be runnig two amps with a three way crossover. One 4 channel amp to the inside speakers and the second a 2 channel for the sub(s).

I'm going to start with the basic soundsystem including the amp for the interior speakers, get that all set, then figure out what I want/need as far as sub(s).

My last car had 4" midrange and 3 1/2 highs in the front with some pioneer 6x9's in the back deck. I also had a 15 inch Klipsh SUb in the trunk in a custom home-made box that really pounded. I ran it with two amps and a three way crossover and loved the results, but I want to do something really different with this car if I can. (Molded fiberglass boxes in the trunk for 2 10 or 12 inch woofers comes to mind).

I may also set the system up so that I can swap out different sub setups depending on whether I want more trunk space or more boom. But that's just a rough idea that I'm pondering.

What I wouldn't do for my Jungle...

Thanks again!

maximase86

iTrader: (24)

Word of the wise. Don't over do it in size back there. The way that it's set up back there, the lower frequencies from both speakers will cancel each other out. I found this out when I was playing with my rear speakers. They can produce awesome mid-range & mid-bass as long as it was coming from one speaker and not the other. When you balance it even, you get only the highs and some miderange (is there a way to fix this?). I justed a custom bracket that I got from Andrew, who used to own an 85 max. Basically way he did was take the old housing, made a template of the footprint, and cut some plywood to size and simply cut out the holes for tweeters and 5 1/4" speakers. He covered it with black carpet, and cut out a section of the rear carpeting and deck and they mounted flush. I need to do that on my car, but I can't figure out how to get the back seat out of the way. To top it off, I don't have the tools to cut everything too. Also it will be a PITA to try to fit 6 1/2"s back there, I tried that and the rear seat just gets in the way. Also if you remove the stock speaker, there are two holes per speaker, one for the tweeter, and one for the woofer.

S

Charles Bisel

The best sounding audio systems are component setups. You get a lot more clarity when you go that route. Also, you want to have most of the sound coming from the front speakers. If you want a really sweet sounding setup, go with a set of 6.5" or 6.75" in the front with a pair of tweeters where the sail panels are. You can get the sail panel speaker housing off of a Lexus. Make sure you use crossovers to connect the tweeters in order to cut out the low frequencies.

As for the back, stick with the stock size 4" speakers and a pair of tweeters connected with crossovers. I know a lot of people shy away from using such small speakers, and a lot of people like to shove big 6x9"s in the back. But most car audio professionals agree that for better imaging, you want the sound to be coming from the front.

Go with a good set of subs and amplify the subs as well as your speakers. Also, you may want to invest in some dynamat for the doors and the trunk while your at it. Some people go all out and use spray-on sound proofing and such and do practically the whole car. It works really well, but it does add significant weight to the car.

My personal recommendation as far as products go would be Pioneer headunits and amplifiers and Rockford Fosgate speakers and subs. But that's just my personal preference, there's a lot of good quality products out there like the Infiniti's you mentioned, as well as stuff by Clarion, Kenwood, Blaupunkt, Kicker, etc.

-C-

Slider

What about the mounting height in the front? On the Maxima it's supposedly 3/8. So are we limited to that? Or will speakers with a larger mounting height fit?

transfrmr

maximase86. That cancellation has nothing to do with the speakers themselves. You actually have them hooked up wrong and it happens all the time. The speakers are actually "out of phase". While it's true that the polarity on speakers (+ and -) isn't all that important, it is in this acpect.

When you wire up a speaker properly, it'll push out when it is playing music. If you then reverse the wires on the speaker terminals, it will pull in instead (easiest to actually see happening on subs). There is also a slight difference in the quality of the sound when you wire a speaker backwards (it's pulling in instead of pushing) but to most people's ears, this effect is negligible. What you will notice is exactly what you described, when both speakers are running together they will seem not as loud as each individual speaker does. This is because one is pushing and another is pulling causing the sound waves to effectively cancel each other out. The result is tinny sound that lacks the bass and midrange it should have.

How to fix this? It's easy. reverse the polarity on one of the speakers (switch the wires on the terminals). While this is going to be easy to do in the back, you also have to make sure that the front and back speakers are all wired the same to get the best sound.

Headunits usually have one wire with a stripe and one without. To make sure I get all the speakers in phase, I usually figure out with one speaker which way results in the speaker pushing out, then i make sure that all 4 (or more) are hooked up the same way.

You'd be amazed how many people I have fixed this problem for. They complain that the new speakers they paid a lot of money for sound like crap, and they do, but it's not the speakers, it's the install.

Try reversing the wires and I'm sure that you will fix your problem, and don't feel stupid, it happens to a LOT of people.

As for fitting in the 6 1/2's, I'm going to be stripping out most of the interior (including the back seat) to do the install properly and also tighten up anyting that's loose and could rattle. I'm not afraid of building a whole new back deck to accomodate my system, and I've done it before but thanks for the heads up anyways.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to e-mail me.


Charles

It's definitely going to be a component setup. 6 1/2's with tweeters is definitely the plan for the front, but I dissagree heavily on the idea that sound should come from the front to sound good.

Personally I like a well balanced system. If I want the sound in the front on a particular occasion, that's what the fader is for.

I plan to use a three way active (powered)crossover. Which would give me the capability of adjusting the gain and crossover frequency for fronts, backs and subs independently. This give you such a good control over your system that adjusting crossover points and setting up uimaging and staging (where the music seems to come from) is a dream. Most component sets will include the passive crossovers for the tweeters that they suplly, if they don't, it's 2.00$ at the electronics warehouse for the same thing, and I can pick the frequency I want it to cut at myself.

I agree about the pioneer headunits, (I currently have a pioneer deh-2400 sitting beside my computer)I've had nothing but great results and good quality from them. As far as amps, I've built systems based on pyramid amps that put systems based on rockford fosgates to shame, it's all about how you set it up and matching the right amount of power to the speaker and finding the right box size in the case of subs. Heck, my last system used a 15 inch Klipsh 10ohm Club driver (not car audio at all) powered by a pyramid 500 watt amp. I love how people would tell me it would sound like crap, and then it would sound better than their system, way better. Or even better was having people in the car raving about how good it sounds, then showing them what was running it and watching them try to figure out how the heck I made it work... Don't worry, there was no distortion..

Slider, do you mean mounting depth? (how deep into the doors the speakers will go). If you do, it's fairly easy to work around. fitting a piece of MDF or such behind the speaker to reduce how deep it goes works well, but it may be necessary to build your own grille to go over it if it sticks out too far. Jayfresh did mention that there's about 2 inches to work with, which is way more than 3/8's though.


Thanks again guys, as you can probably tell I've set up, troubleshot, designed and installed a few systems already and know quite a bit about car audio itself. I'm also pretty good with wood and fiberglass, so making replacements for stock panels and such that won't work with what I want to do shouldn't be a big problem.

It's the car that I'm not familiar with, but that's changing rather quickly now thanks to you guys! When I get started I'll be sure to post pics to show exactly how and what I do, if it helps anyone else out that's great. Right now I'm expecting to get started within the next month or two.

MaxWgn

iTrader: (1)

C., which year and model Lexus can we swipe these sail panels from? I'd like to do that on mine, as the door drivers sound muddy in the high end since they are so low...

jayfresh

OK OK check this out...

There is a difference between Mounting depth and Mounting Height.

There is Top Mounting Depth and Bottom Mounting Depth, our cars is Top Mounting Depth because you are mounting the speaker over the cutted hole. Bottom Mounting is when install the speaker under the cutted hole. Get it? So our cars is required for Top Mounting Depth of approximately 2 inches, any further is your luck kid. Now for the Mounting Height, it is the height measurement from the top of the speaker to the top end of the tweeter(very small measurement) and our rides require no more than 3/8" because any more then the door panel won't be locked in right because the speaker's mounting height is stickin out. But it won't to much of a problem with components cause the don't have an attached tweet on top. Below these words ya'll find a design of the mounting details.

Charles your right about keeping with 4" in the back for the fit. I even tried putting 5 1/4" in the back and it was a b*tch to drop in cause of the size. Then it wouldn't fit in the housing so I rocked the speakers just laying on top of the deck without housing like some cheap azz mu'f*ka. So I sticked to 4" or 5". I recommend the Infinity's for the back 4". The best in that SIZE.

Don't forget to search for the dB's ratings and frequency responses in both speakers and headunits. The more dB's the better. The wider the frequency range the better. Don't always rely on peak wattage, rely more on the RMS wattage.

So carry on Grasshoper.

Peace.

transfrmr

Well, that puts things into perspective.

I'm going to be using components anyways so it shouldn't be a problem, since tweeters should be aimed roughly at the listener. Thanks for the illustration though, it clears that up for me! I know I've seen that before, but apparently I'd forgotten.

I just went down with a tape measure to see what I could come up with for the back speakers. I think that if I mount them more centered (closer to the taillight) I might be able to squeeze in the 6 1/2's but I'm giong to have to relocate the control module for the keyless entry. My keypads aren't working anyways, so I may remove it entirely (passenger pas doesn't work at all, driver's side has the 5-6 key that doesn't work only).

If I can, I might try to fit in the 6 1/2's AND some 4's with tweeters on the ends of the back deck, but again, some more figuring is needed before I know if I can do it.

maximase86

iTrader: (24)

Hmm I'm sure I got the polarity right, but I will probably double check the connections, thanks for the tip.

S

Charles Bisel

Maxwgn,

Avalon42 did that swap. He used the speaker housings from a '98 Lexus ES 300.

He did have pictures posted at the club at one time, but they're no longer on there. You can ask him how he installed them and maybe he still has the pictures of what they look like installed. As I remember, they looked pretty good, almost like the car came equipped with them from the factory.

-C-

gscars

bro, in terms of accurate fitting speakers 5 1/4 is required for both door and deck speakers, with 1 1/4- 2 inch depth for the foors, deck has no depth limitation, also nice recommended speakers would be boston acoustics, blaupunkt, or alpine, also i went with wiyh the doubledin 7 inch dvd player/gps combo system(i sell them) nice as hell, but if u could find that type it just kiihs better, good luck bro

gscars

sorry i meant for the doors lol