Got me a wee bit of a problem.....
01-02-2004, 12:42 AM
#1
Got me a wee bit of a problem.....
My motor will not fire up. Was driving on the road and suddenly, my motor quit. All the idiot lights lit up and the tach went immediately to zero. At first I was like "Oh ****.....timing belt broke". But that doesn't appear to be the issue believe it or not. Someone help me push my car to a hill were I can coast down. Drop the clutch in gear and you can hear the motor running. I was flooring it at the same time and you can hear my intake. If I did break a belt, I wouldn't be hearing the intake noise. Some how it sounds like its not getting fuel or spark, because I'm pretty sure it's getting lot's of air. Also after all the cranking (which is the cause of my now dead battery), I am getting steam from the exhaust (it's pretty cold here, and it smell almost like natural gas).
From what I've check so far, there are no tell tale signs of a broken head gasket. Coolant system was fully pressurized, and completely topped off. I also check to see if the fuel pump is working, and it is. Also right before I was driving, I did have a some hesitation like the motor was gonna die, but it picked right up. When it cranks, there are no wierd sounds and the motor cranks just fine. Doesn't fire at all. I'm suspecting one of a few things, fuel filter is clogged and restricting fuel passage to the point of starving the motor, igition coil is dead, crank angle sensor is dead (since my tach didn't move a hair when I did have engine noise), bad distributor, or maybe a bad maf (which I kinda doubt because I think it would at least put the car on safe mode for me to limp home. I know the car has been pretty laggy in the lower RPM range lately.
What are your guy's thoughts?
S
From what I've check so far, there are no tell tale signs of a broken head gasket. Coolant system was fully pressurized, and completely topped off. I also check to see if the fuel pump is working, and it is. Also right before I was driving, I did have a some hesitation like the motor was gonna die, but it picked right up. When it cranks, there are no wierd sounds and the motor cranks just fine. Doesn't fire at all. I'm suspecting one of a few things, fuel filter is clogged and restricting fuel passage to the point of starving the motor, igition coil is dead, crank angle sensor is dead (since my tach didn't move a hair when I did have engine noise), bad distributor, or maybe a bad maf (which I kinda doubt because I think it would at least put the car on safe mode for me to limp home. I know the car has been pretty laggy in the lower RPM range lately.
What are your guy's thoughts?
S
repost 
01-02-2004, 06:52 AM
#3
First thing I would think of would be ignition...most likely primary, and not secondary...this would be the coil, coil trans. pack, distributor, crank-angle-sensor, cap and/or rotor...
symptoms would point more towards coil, or transistor pack...and possibly the CAS. But I'd check the others first....
symptoms would point more towards coil, or transistor pack...and possibly the CAS. But I'd check the others first....
01-02-2004, 09:36 AM
#4
Thanks Shawn, that really really helped!
Louis, yeah that is my thoughts, but I'm also thinking the possibility of fuel because I notice from all the cranking I did, I didn't flood the motor. Either way I gotta whip out the voltmeter and test things. Thanks for those suggestions, I will definately looking into those as well.
S
Louis, yeah that is my thoughts, but I'm also thinking the possibility of fuel because I notice from all the cranking I did, I didn't flood the motor. Either way I gotta whip out the voltmeter and test things. Thanks for those suggestions, I will definately looking into those as well.
S
01-02-2004, 02:39 PM
#6
Well, It looks like I should be getting fuel. Fuel pump seems to pressurize the system. I changed the fuel filter, but in the process put a pin size hole in the feed line coming from the fuel pump. Anyone know if its a soft line going all the way back to the tank, or is it just a hose going to a hardline? I need to replace it because when I turn the key and pump primes, it small spray of fuel comes out now. 
Also I have verified the timing belt is fine. I popped the distributor and cranked the motor, and sure enough the rotor turns. Head gasket is good. Cooling system was full, and the oil is fine, as well as at the appropriate level. My voltmeter is dead, so I can't test everything out. Gonna probably wait until Sunday when my buddy Greg comes over to look at it. Hopefully it's not overly complex.
S
Also I have verified the timing belt is fine. I popped the distributor and cranked the motor, and sure enough the rotor turns. Head gasket is good. Cooling system was full, and the oil is fine, as well as at the appropriate level. My voltmeter is dead, so I can't test everything out. Gonna probably wait until Sunday when my buddy Greg comes over to look at it. Hopefully it's not overly complex. S
01-02-2004, 02:40 PM
#7
The fuel pump appears to be working. When you turn the key, you hear it prime. Plus since I now have a small crack/hole in my fuel line, you can see a small spray a fuel when everything pressurizes. So it looks like I got fuel. Now I have to check for ignition. Also, if the injectors indeed fail, wouldn't it be unlikely for all 6 to fail at the same time? I mean, if one had failed, the car could theortically run on less than 5 cylinders. I do gotta hunch it could be a CAS. My ECU has thrown a code for it once not to long ago but it seemed to go away.
S
S
01-02-2004, 06:34 PM
#8
Well this is what I went and got. A 2/10/50 amp 12volt battery
charger to charge the battery back up, cap and rotor, one spark
plug, and some fuel hose. Gonna try to repair my leak. The one spark
plug is to check for spark, since I have a spare, and I don't want
to go through the hassel of taking out a plug. Cap and rotor needed
to be replaced a while ago, since I only did plugs and wires back
when I had problem with my motor running rough. Gonna charge it up
tonight and start hammering things out tommorrow. Current cost out
of pocket, $118 bucks.
S
charger to charge the battery back up, cap and rotor, one spark
plug, and some fuel hose. Gonna try to repair my leak. The one spark
plug is to check for spark, since I have a spare, and I don't want
to go through the hassel of taking out a plug. Cap and rotor needed
to be replaced a while ago, since I only did plugs and wires back
when I had problem with my motor running rough. Gonna charge it up
tonight and start hammering things out tommorrow. Current cost out
of pocket, $118 bucks.
S
01-03-2004, 11:20 AM
#10
Made a small bit of progress today. Got the battery nice and charged up. I tested for spark by removing the wire from number 6 cylinder and putting the spare plug in. I held it first really close to the ground strap and cranked the motor, nothing. Then I put the tip of the plug against the ground and still nothing. So now that narrows it down to the ignition. I bought some new hose for my slighly broken fuel line, but I may attempt to cut it down first, then plug the filter because it will most likely require me to put the car up on jackstands, which I don't have at the moment, and it's just freakin cold out here (upper 20's or so). I will go out with the voltmeter to test the CAS and ignition coil to make sure they aren't bad. So far it doesn't appear to be the MAF because I don't believe it messes with iginition, just fuel ratio.
S
S
01-03-2004, 01:01 PM
#11
Well suck....ECU is throwing 2 codes, and I don't know which one is the real problem because the motor isn't running. Code 11 and 21. Crank Angle Sensor and Ignition Signal, which includes all of the ignition components. What's worst, when putting on the new rotor, I manged to strip the screw hole. This is all coming together just freaking great. I'm having more problems now than I did when the car first stop running.
S
S
01-04-2004, 08:27 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by maximase86
Well suck....ECU is throwing 2 codes, and I don't know which one is the real problem because the motor isn't running. Code 11 and 21. Crank Angle Sensor and Ignition Signal, which includes all of the ignition components. What's worst, when putting on the new rotor, I manged to strip the screw hole. This is all coming together just freaking great. I'm having more problems now than I did when the car first stop running.
S
S
01-04-2004, 01:47 PM
#13
Well, I'm probably gonna put everything on hold for now. It's upper 20's outside, I don't have much money at the moment. Lucky for me, my family has 3 cars including mine, and only 2 drives. So I at least still have transportation.
S
S
01-06-2004, 07:14 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by maximase86
Well, I'm probably gonna put everything on hold for now. It's upper 20's outside, I don't have much money at the moment. Lucky for me, my family has 3 cars including mine, and only 2 drives. So I at least still have transportation.
S
S
that your coil is shot.
I had a very similar problem happen to me last year at this time,
turned out to be the coil.
If you want, I might still have the coil I pulled from the parts car
that I had, I could send it to ya so you could use it to test with.
Scott
01-06-2004, 08:49 AM
#15
I got a good run down of primary and secondary ignition systems while troubleshooting the car when my distributor gear walked down, allowing for about 1/8" of vertical play, and about 1/16" lateral play in the shaft.
01-06-2004, 09:22 AM
#16
Originally Posted by 86Wagon
If I was a betting man (and I am...), I'd agree with MaxWgn
that your coil is shot.
I had a very similar problem happen to me last year at this time,
turned out to be the coil.
If you want, I might still have the coil I pulled from the parts car
that I had, I could send it to ya so you could use it to test with.
Scott
that your coil is shot.
I had a very similar problem happen to me last year at this time,
turned out to be the coil.
If you want, I might still have the coil I pulled from the parts car
that I had, I could send it to ya so you could use it to test with.
Scott
S
01-06-2004, 03:33 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by maximase86
What year was the parts car? How much you want for the coil? Do you happen to have the CAS or distributor from it either?
S
S
coil seeing that it's a used part... I replaced mine with one that has a
lifetime warranty on it so this one is taking up space in my garage, how
does $5 sound + shipping?
Not sure what you mean by the CAS, but I did pull the distributor, but
I'm planning on saving that for my own car, sorry.
Scott
01-06-2004, 04:31 PM
#18
Well right now, money is a little tight, I get paid on the 15th. You think we can work some kind of deal out. Like I pay you $10 for the part and shipping? So it doesn't cause you any inconvience or anything. Lemme know.
S
S
01-07-2004, 06:59 AM
#19
Scott, the CAS is the Crank Angle Sensor, which is under thatgoldish colored sheild on the distrib you see when you remove the cap and rotor...
It's nothing more than a metal disc, with slots cut into it, along the outer edge. Then, aligned with this row of slots is a photo receptor and a bulb...so as the disc spins, the light "blinks" from the receptors point of view, to send the pulse signal to the ECU, so it knows when to fire the injectors...
It's nothing more than a metal disc, with slots cut into it, along the outer edge. Then, aligned with this row of slots is a photo receptor and a bulb...so as the disc spins, the light "blinks" from the receptors point of view, to send the pulse signal to the ECU, so it knows when to fire the injectors...
01-07-2004, 09:19 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by maximase86
Well right now, money is a little tight, I get paid on the 15th. You think we can work some kind of deal out. Like I pay you $10 for the part and shipping? So it doesn't cause you any inconvience or anything. Lemme know.
S
S
Hmmmm.... I have quite a few parts I want to sell to you!
PM me your address and I just send it out... payme when you can...
Scott
01-07-2004, 09:21 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by MaxWgn
Scott, the CAS is the Crank Angle Sensor, which is under thatgoldish colored sheild on the distrib you see when you remove the cap and rotor...
It's nothing more than a metal disc, with slots cut into it, along the outer edge. Then, aligned with this row of slots is a photo receptor and a bulb...so as the disc spins, the light "blinks" from the receptors point of view, to send the pulse signal to the ECU, so it knows when to fire the injectors...
It's nothing more than a metal disc, with slots cut into it, along the outer edge. Then, aligned with this row of slots is a photo receptor and a bulb...so as the disc spins, the light "blinks" from the receptors point of view, to send the pulse signal to the ECU, so it knows when to fire the injectors...
could stand for...
I'm well aware of what the CAS does, but thanks for the description!
Is your wagon up to speed yet?
Scott
01-08-2004, 02:17 PM
#22
It's running...but now it has two flats...and i have to wait until the tax refund comes in to get new tires...all four are bad, and none would pass inspection right now...and i refuse to buy cheapies...the roads here get slick as ice with a light misting rain, due to the high petroleum content of the asphalt they use...
01-14-2004, 06:24 PM
#23
Well, used my truck to pull my car to my buddy's shop. They fixed the stripped rotor hole and replaced the fuel hose. They get in turn the car over, and guess what.....the car starts. They let it idle and about 40 minutes later, the car dies again. The coil tested good, they think it maybe a crank angle sensor. My question is, is it possible for a CAS to become defective when it heats up. My intution says no. This sounds more consistent with a bad coil, but they tested it as being good....any ideas?
S
S
01-15-2004, 05:27 PM
#26
Well it looks like it IS a crank angle sensor. Suck. My buddy tried testing it while his cowork cranked the car over. He tried every pin out combination, and could not get a pulse from the sensor. So now I'm in the quest for a used distributor assembly. Any suggestions would be nice.
S
S
01-17-2004, 05:28 PM
#27
The car is back on the road and she's kicking very strong. It seemed
to clear up whatever timing issue I was having around 2500rpm. It
was indeed the crank angle sensor. We replaced the distributor and
the car started right up.
S
to clear up whatever timing issue I was having around 2500rpm. It
was indeed the crank angle sensor. We replaced the distributor and
the car started right up.
S
01-17-2004, 09:09 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by maximase86
The car is back on the road and she's kicking very strong. It seemed
to clear up whatever timing issue I was having around 2500rpm. It
was indeed the crank angle sensor. We replaced the distributor and
the car started right up.
S
to clear up whatever timing issue I was having around 2500rpm. It
was indeed the crank angle sensor. We replaced the distributor and
the car started right up.
S
What was the problem that you were having at 2500RPM?
Was it a hesitation?
I'm curious as if this will help your hot start problem as well.
I assume you went with a used dist from a salvage yard.
Good News!
Scott
01-18-2004, 09:28 AM
#30
Car had pretty good hesistation at about 2500. As for the hot start problem, haven't notice anything yet. I also had to turn down my idle as it start idling a bit high, but that's fixed now.
S
S
01-19-2004, 06:51 AM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by maximase86
Car had pretty good hesistation at about 2500. As for the hot start problem, haven't notice anything yet. I also had to turn down my idle as it start idling a bit high, but that's fixed now.
S
S
Does the car seem to start right up where it might have
taken a few cranks before?
Just trying to diagnose mine a little...
Scott
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