NatveTxn'92SE

The exact same thing happens to me. I didn't think I was going to make it back to Austin from Waco last noght. It's now getting harder to start and for a while yesterday it actually started missing on a cylinder. I've noticed that there are two different types of stall. One is under heavy acceleration, it stalls and when I look at my tach the rpm's start bouncing up and down kind of like a rev limiter set at 2500. It tries to reve but when it gets to 2500 it shuts off, coasts down, revs back to ~2500 shuts off, etc.

The other stall is just a DEAD stall. No recovery, no rev limiter stuff, no nothing. Those are the ones where I have to throw it in neutral and restart is after about 2 or 3 seconds. There is a barely audible backfire when this one shows up.

No solutions yet but I've tried the ecu reset, new plugs, new pcv, new fuel filter, and 93 octane but those didn't solve the problem.

Next are the big ticket items which I can't afford to experiment with. My local dealership told me I could come by and look at their service manuals so I'm going to try that today. I'll post if anything jumps out at me.

male

Hows your plug wires and coils? simple, but the humidity thing is a tip off..easy check..when dark out, lift hood and look for arcing. Or grab the wires and inspect with engine OFF. If they are bad, they will give you a nice jolt when running (ouch!). Moisture on poorly insulated/worn wires or coils will cause arching all over the place and the exact symptoms you all are describing.

BigJuice

Try the O2 sensor I have heard of this problem on other cars(hondas) in which that was the fix.

rhard49

Well Six new Laser platinum NGK and six new coil packs and it stalls smoother then ever.

Replaced so far
Plugs (2X)
MAF
TPS
COILS
Fuel Filter (3x)
Fuel Pump (It died)
2 Nissan Consult trips last one swore it was the coils.

Pulling O2 made no diff Diagnostic mode II says O2 is good and displays code 55 everything ok.

Spark plugs were dark characteristic of being too rich and lower porcelin brown kinda burned looking.

I'm about $1100.00 into this thing so far.

Jwats

Replaced all the coils
Car runs MUCH better and has not stalled
I am declaring victory

MaxHeadroom

Yes, definatly replace the knock sensor, it will make your car do all kind of weird things when it goes bad except the check engine light don't come on.

rhard49

I replaced ny coils friday with no change in the stalling it ran smoother but still stalled. After installing the coils I picked up alternator whine in my stereo system ( Dual Amp 240w & 700W ) So I started cleaning grounds pulled the negative battery cable which has 2 Brass ground points one to the chassis another to the Block. These were very corroded at the ground points I cleaned the brass with a wire dremel wheel and replaced the cable less noise and no stalling today but I have used it less then 50 miles. I'm back to thinking its a ground problem somewhere.

jwhite

I definintely do NOT think that this problem is related to the O2 sensor. I have replaced mine and my car still has the infamous stall. I have to admit, I thought it was the fuel pump as well, or that maybe I ****ed someone off and they put a condom in my gas tank.

blackonblack

This stalling problem seems to be rampant on maxima's 89 - 94. I just started having them! I stall/torque/power failures when I'm on red lights, stop signs, turning left, hit rough roads or just plain idle. I replaced the fuel filter, ignition coil, distributor, cap & rotors, but because these problems are so sporadic and the car still has episodes of smooth sailing, I refuse to believe that is a fuel pump or ECU issue, especially after reading all of the previous posts. My guess is a bad wire or the O2 sensor... What is that? I'll take it yet to another mechanic in the days to follow. Oh! It's worth mentioning that these problems began after I filled up at my local Exxon and didnt drive for about 4 days. I did the fuel injection cleaner deal to no avail, however just yesterday I noticed improvement by just reving the engine up for about 2 mins up to 4000 RPMs and driving on cruise control... again my guess is a bad wire.

rhard49

ok now I'm getting a code 12 from my computer (MAF) I replaced that last year I believe its the mafs wiring harness how would you check that out?

G9X4E

Back probe the connector at the sensor to see if valid voltage is there. If not, your sensor is gone. If signal is there, the harness or ECU connector maybe gone.

NatveTxn'92SE

Wondering if it helped the sypmtoms last year when you replaced your MAF? And are the symptoms the same?

rhard49

No the symptoms didn't go away they were still very intermitent I returned the first one thinking it bad but the problem continued. It ran better an a lot more power but still had the problem. A year ago the problems happened maybe once every couple of days or once a day. They have since become constant. The fact it never cleared up and I've replaced tons of stuff leads me to believe its the harness or a stessed wire. I believe the failure or appearance of the maf failure causes the car to not go above 2500 RPM issue cause its in limp home mode. you can go through every gear and keep it under 2500 and it will drive. I had this big time yesterday and it disappeared again and was running above 2500 this morning. Damm this is frustrating.

I just checked the power transistor with a meter its ok.
and did a throttle body cleaning.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

The MAFS is known to go bad (even more so for the 4th geners). I recently removed the connector (cut it off) and used new push terminals (it wasnt that easy of a job). Ofcourse its incredibly important that the order of the wires is not confused.

There is actually a technical service bulliten for this connector and it has to do with the terminals going lame. But when the connectors are sqeezed down, there is a negative effect, where the contact inside the connector actually gets pushed backward into its plastic housing, just enough to make the connection worse. So after finding that out I went ahead and made the new connector.

If someone was fanatical enough, they could remove the connector from the MAFS (just two screws). then they could splice and solder direct wire connections (bypassing the connector totally)
But then ofcourse it would be a pain in the **** when taking apart air intake system b/c the MAFS couldnt go anywhere.

rhard49

your a brave soul. I was afraid splicing into the harness would change its impedence which is what I think the MAF is calibrated to or responds to. I was trying to figure out how to go from the ecu to the maf directly but need to look at the wiring diagram to understand if it goes to anything else along the way. Thanks for the input I'm going to try to find the TSB. Anyone have it by chance?

blackonblack

RHARD49 - being that you're brave enough to try and mess-around with the ECU why not consider the following pieces of advice from other posters... check these out:

"The problem is you need to dis connect the o2 sensor and drive the car if it doesnt do it problem fixed! If it was your fuel pump u would know ur fuel guage would not register and fuel consumption would really suck. Try the o2, if its not the o2, reset your ecu per your repair manual and drive the car and send it in to diagnostic mode and check all the codes! Thats how I fixed my car when it was doing the same thing! It turned out to be the o2 sensor, your problem is in the eccs, one of yuor eccs sensors is not functioning properly and its sending an error code to the engine and its causing your car to advance and retard to rectify the problem. It only takes a couple of seconds to disconnect it! try it! Good luck!"

or this other one

"early this year it stumbled once or twice a month on the HW, then in June it stalled for the first time and since then the problem statrted to get worse.
By October I had real hard time driving: it failed to start and stalled often. I took it to the local Nissan dealer three times in June but they did not find anything. The dealer thought it was ignition: wires, plugs, distributor cap and rortor or distributor itself. I left a large amount of money there for nothing.
Another local mechanic specializing in 300ZX found that it was the fuel pump. He replaced the pump but it also did not fix the problem.
Just because the engine did not stall every day and there was no pattern in the occurence of the problem I was convinced that it was a broken wire or connector pin.
To find the problem I made an indicator of two LEDs taken from an older computer with a 4 kOm resistor ballast. I used that indocator on every possible wire in the sequence starting from the ignition lock switch and to the fuel pump harness connector. The last was the source of the problem. The connector itself is sitting under the right side of the back seat, right where I had a childseat installed. This might have caused the +12V pin to break.
For now I bridged the connector and the problem is gone."

rhard49

If you follow the prior threads I did just that I tried the O2 sesnor took it to a service station car hot they disconected it I drove it around for and hour no change still stalled. I also did the Oxygen sensor test

Put ECU in mode II with key on start engine when at operating temperature run for 2 minutes at over 2000 RPM check engine light will blink more then 5 times in 10 seconds to indicate proper function.

It checked good again.

the fuel pump failure comment relates to nothing a fuel pump does when it fails. It has no effect on the gas gauge that would be a float or a sending unit it does not effect mileage it just dies or fails to put out enough pressure to run the engine. Mine died last year after a 350 mile drive it flooded out the car at a rest stop and would not start for a half and hour then after running fine and reaching my destination I turned the car off and it would not start no fuel pressure all connections and fuses fine. $368 dollars later a new fuel pump and it starts fine but the problem continues.

I have tried almost all the fix's mentioned and have replaced most of the parts like so many others. What I am trying to do in addition to fix my problem is to help solve the same problem many of us have and have not defined or solved. I hoped by using our collective minds and experiences we could define and solve it for less then the $1200 dollars I have spent so far. I have been on the consult system at dealers several times and DO NOT BELIEVE THEY KNOW HOW TO USE IT or care nothing about it only about beating the clock and billing you. Wouldn't it be nice to have a warranty on diagnostics.

I hope we collectivly get to the bottom of this it is dangerous to drive a car that stalls at 60 MPH or any speed! if you want the SOAP BOX ITS YOURS


Thanks
Rich

NatveTxn'92SE

Rich, Thanks for all your information. To everyone else that has posted Thank You too! I have spent hundreds on mine as well and the problem is getting worse. I can't drive it for more than 4 or 5 minutes at hiway or in-town speeds, cruise control on and off, a/c on and off, etc. and it continues to stall. There's no pattern to duplicate to get it to act up. Nothing that precipitates it every time. Very intermittent and yes Rich, DAMN FRUSTRATING. Nissan would be glad to charge me min. $80 to tell me they couldn't find anything.

I just hope we find the problem soon. My gas gauge has been acting funny here these last couple of days such as reading 1/4 when I've only put 45 miles on a full tank. That's new. The other symptoms remain the same. Cutting out all altogether, rev limiting at 2500, etc.

Let's nail this beeyotch..

Kman

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

Have you checked if its a relay yet?
It could still be something simple like the fuel pump relay or an ignition relay.
The fuel pump relay is located in the truck (near the trunk lock, but I'm not sure), you can interchange that relay with another thats under the hood, so long as its the same color (they are color coded). This is very easy to check. If it works then make sure you replace the bad one (not just leave it in its new location).

NatveTxn'92SE

That's some good stuff. I had already re-seated the relays under the hood for the ignition etc. (two blue and one green) to non avail but wasn't aware of the one in the truck. I'll try and hunt it down.

THANKS!

rhard49

On a 92 SE it is in the trunk just to the left of the latch that holds the trunk closed. Between that and the tail light, it screws to the chassis remove the plastic cover and its right there cost 15.00 I did mine saturday cause it was cheap, no diff.

Just so we know where we are
Fuel filter 3X
New NGK Platinums (Bosch 4+ 12Months ago)
Fuel Pump
Throttle Position Sensor
MAF
Coils
Fuel Pump Relay
Tested Power Transistor (Good)
Throttle Body Cleanout
Unplugged O2 Sensor and did ModeII Test Good

BTW I think the Bosch +4 are more tolerant of a poor running condition but the NGK's are to expensive to throw out.

blackonblack

Have any of you guys fiddled with the A/T button under the spare change tray? The reason why I ask this is because I remember three years ago, while was stepping on the gas pedal I pressed the A/T button on to the power position without letting go off the pedal. I remember getting a strong jerky reaction where the car never got in to the proper gear. A reaction that's very similar to all of our described problems. Today I drove my car hard for about an hour, in a mixed traffic flow. I shut the engine off and on a couple of times. Drove it through potholes, and made hard turns. All with the A/T button on normal. I even changed gears to get a stronger giddy-up. Everything went well, UNTIL... I moved the A/T button on to the power position. I'm starting to think that is a combination of oxygen sensors and transmission sensor. Again I'll be checking with another mechanic by this coming weekend, so lets see. Is worth mentioning also that my buddy has a 91 Accord that, not long ago, was plain ole stalling and not starting... describing the almost exact symtoms we are having. His mechanic, who is the guy I'm going to be checking out, cleaned out his injectors and carbon deposits making his car drive like new.

Maximajism94se

didnt do much really, i figure its cause im in fl (sea level)...i had just done my rear valve cover gasket, and when i put everything back 2gether i messed up on the tps (broke 1 bolt and lost the other) so the car was revving super high, and that seemed to lower the time (although it totally jerked the car when shifting from park 2 reverse, which im sure wasnt fun 4 my tranny, but i didnt figure out why it was revving high till the next day cause i dont totally know what im doin half the time)

btw, didnt brake torque or have advanced timing then, but b/c my tps was in the wrong position the car idled at about 1500 neway...

MaxHeadroom

Check my thread

rhard49

Will the system run without the knock sensor connector plugged in?

DaBoxSE

iTrader: (5)

Had the same problem, nearly killed me sometimes. I've done everything else and it was the sensor for me. replace that and see if that helps. (I didnt read the whole thread, so if you have already please dont mind me)

blackonblack

What exactly is the throttle position sensor?

male

Basically it tells the ECU what POSITION the THROTTLE blades are in. It is part of the Electronic fuel injection system. Often called TPS. If you look at your throttle body, it will be the little rectanguler black box on the TB itself, opposite the throttle cables.

rhard49

It was the first thing I replaced on mine figuring it was a reostat that spends 90 percent of its life in the same position and mine was 38.00 It had no effect on my problem. It is testable with a multimeter to determine if its good

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Wow! That can't be good. Hopefully everything is ok. I mean your time is so great b/c the next best time ever done by a completely stock VE Auto is a 16.30. So, I knew you had to do something out of the ordinary.

Maximajism94se

yeah...i think what ima try is right b/f i race at the track start the car, put it in drive, and move the tps up, and then just move it back after i race, saving my tranny from the hard shifts when its stopped...however, eric said sumthin about this makes the car run lean so who knows...

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

Yeah the engine will run leaner when you change the tps setting. Actually it depends which way you turn the sensor. But When I think about it now, if the tps is turned to make the computer think the throttle is opened, then the computer will tell the injectors to send more gas and since the throttle plate is closed there won't be enough air for the mixture, so it will actually be running richer. But there are the other sensors telling the computer whats going on, and they are the MAFS and the 02 sensor, MAFS tell how much air, and the 02 telling the computer if there is too much unburned gas.

Also built into the tps is a 'closed throttle position switch' ctps, and that need to be set at the proper position (by turning the tps, physically lossening the two screw). its the top connector on the tps (the tps has two connectors). And if you use a multimeter and do a continutity test on the upper two terminals on the tps (on a VE I dont know the arrangement on the vg), the switch should trip when the throttle plate is opened just a tiny amount. I'm going to check mine again b/c it seems to have a tendency to change position or act funny, b/c I set my ctps so that it is very sensitive to the throtle.

rhard49

Yep best way is to set it up with a meter its supposed to read .5 volt in the closed throttle position with the key on engine not running. It appearently tells the engine the throttle is closed when you lift your foot off the gas and signals one of the other sensors to suppply more air. I think the bdcc or something. mine was miss adjusted and it would not tell the engine the throttle was closed till you just about stopped. This made the engine surge or RPM's rise just before you came to a stop not running very smoothly at all. Adjusting it correctly smoothed out the transiton during slow down and it now idles normally as you slow to a stop. Misadjusting can bring the idle speed up to like 2k.

rhard49

Well I'm convinced its not parts problems but age and climate that bring this upon us. I broke down and subscribed to alldata to get usable wiring diagrams and access to TSB's cause someone said there was one on the MAF. There's not.

I decided to clean all or as many as I could find of the connections and grounds in the car and clean up some other stuff. The alldata told me there were 3 harness's in the engine compartment the Main Harness the Fuel injection and the ECCS.

I cleaned/polished the grounds with a wire wheel on a drill

I first dumped my K&N Filter there's a TSB on air turbulence causing maf problems even a replacement airbox mentioned. Did the throttle body cleaning. The brass body and engine ground on the negative battey cable as well as there mounting points. The ground behind the fusible link box 1 on the drivers side fender (This feeds the ECCS) The ground behind the crank angle sensor. The 2 fuel rail grounds that come out right by the injectors on the forward most valve cover. I then cleaned most of the connectors with contact cleaner and coated them with dielectric grease (TPS/TEMP SENSOR/POWER TRANSISTER/MAF and the Positive battery cable add on connectors 2 one of which feeds fusible link box 2 which has connections to the ECCS. I sprayed the connector side of connections and wiped out the component side with qtips and cleaner. Let them dry before reconnecting the battery!
The MAF, I replaced mine last year it was giving me the intermittent 2500 RPM thing which it does when its bad it still did this after replacing it. The map connecttor looked like crap 2 of the leads are white badly oxidised I scratched them up and cleaned them and put it back together and reconnected the battery.

My tach now works again no intermittent fluctuations.
It Idles as smooth as a Maxima SE ever gets.
and it is peppy as hell. (almost forgot why I bought it)

I drove it for 40 miles on parkways and regular roads and it ran like a champ. It did stall once and the maf acted up once but It was virtually undrivable before. There are still some more grounds to find and clean and I believe the rest of my problems are related to the wiring harness on the maf. I am going to get to the grounds tonight and look at a couple of harness's from junkyards today to replace mine. It looks pretty bad. But I believe its all wiring not parts that have caused the problems. I just hope the ECU harness is fine inside the car.

Anyone know if you can buy a new maf harness or connector or are you just supposed to figure out how to repair them. (I already searched)

This took a total of about 3 hours I would recommend it before you start changing lots of parts. The parts may work temporarily as the rest of the sensors compansate for the real problem.

BTW I also reset up my TPS which I had replaced but realised was set up incorrectly but that was a different symptom an RPM rise or surge just as you stopped.

Rich
Stock 92 SE (with a lot of new parts)

NatveTxn'92SE

WOW! Thanks for sharing all of your information Rich. Too many times I have seen guys on this site brag about mods they've made and how much it helps or how much faster their cars are because of it, then someone asks them what they got or where they got it and they don't tell because didn't want to give it away. This info you are sharing is what forums are all about in my opinion.

Thanks Again,
Kenneth

blackonblack

I just dropped my max with a mechanic, but prior to doing that, I began to notice how it's been running a lot smoother and quieter ever since I cleaned the K&N air filter and adjusted the MAFS's wires & TSB... basically fiddled around looking for breaking points, or RPM fluctuations, sure enough I found some. For two days now I've been driving HARD for just about an hour - Hard braking, hard turns... and so far so good. Oh I also filled up on Mobil 91 octane. Still - I expect this mechanic to clean out my fuel injectors and carbon deposits for good measure.

Thanks Rich for such insightful and detailed post! Great work!

Agamemnon

I'm wondering about the same thing! Can we disconnect the knock sensor temporarily? (How?) Would the ECU know? Will it simply assume there's never any knock or will it retard timing as if there's a knock permanently? If it's the first, this can help us rule out any problem with the knock sensor.

dave black

I had a similiar problem with my 90SE auto and the nissan techs could not diagnose the problem because the ecu did not show any error codes. Yet the car would die without any warning, hot or cold, idleing or cruiseing or accelerating. To make a long story short I finally found the problem to be the relay that provides the power to the eccs ecu.. its in the large relay/fuse box on the driver side by the battery.. that fixed MY problem.. hope this helps ..

imported_black

i have the same problem and was going bonkers when i found out that the problem was actually loose wiring. its the odd one on the distributor cap thats not connected to the sparks plug. this one wire actually connected/leads to a thingi in front under a black cover. this wire thing has a red plug head... on my car anyways. the plug head was actually 'decomposed'/ broken. i just taped the head up and tight. from then on my car does not stall and runs like a baby. SORRY for the bad lingo i don't quite no the parts name under the hood but i do like playing with them thing under the hood :P

Jwats

I was originial poster and am amazed at the number of people who seem to have this problem in one form or another.

In my case, it was the coils. All were replaced. I have now driven the car over 500 miles and have NO reoccurence of problem and it seems to run with more power and smoothness.

Hurray!
John