almost had a dyno
06-05-2003, 04:14 AM
#1
almost had a dyno
I was suppose to goto the dyno today but my tranny stuck in 2nd gear. (I already broke an axle)im pretty sure im putting out over 300hp at the wheels,(my butt dyno say 425whp, take away 125hp for parasatass loss = about 300hp) but I guess im going to have to wait until next month to get true dyno #s. My new turbo came in yesterday(t3/t4)I wanted to run the t4 on the dyno but I also blew a seal, so hopefully next month we can see what a ve equiped with a t3/t4 can do.
06-05-2003, 07:54 AM
#2
sounds good... now keep your foot out of it until you get it on the dyno and tuned!
one thing about FWD cars.... with that much power, you MUST be nice to them or you'll be replacing parts all the time. you may have a ton of power, but the car isn't designed to handle it. you'll snap axles and ruin wheel bearings and blow trannys left and right if you beat on it all the time.
one thing about FWD cars.... with that much power, you MUST be nice to them or you'll be replacing parts all the time. you may have a ton of power, but the car isn't designed to handle it. you'll snap axles and ruin wheel bearings and blow trannys left and right if you beat on it all the time.
06-11-2003, 09:12 PM
#3
Re: almost had a dyno
Originally posted by 4signs
I was suppose to goto the dyno today but my tranny stuck in 2nd gear. (I already broke an axle)im pretty sure im putting out over 300hp at the wheels,(my butt dyno say 425whp, take away 125hp for parasatass loss = about 300hp) but I guess im going to have to wait until next month to get true dyno #s. My new turbo came in yesterday(t3/t4)I wanted to run the t4 on the dyno but I also blew a seal, so hopefully next month we can see what a ve equiped with a t3/t4 can do.
I was suppose to goto the dyno today but my tranny stuck in 2nd gear. (I already broke an axle)im pretty sure im putting out over 300hp at the wheels,(my butt dyno say 425whp, take away 125hp for parasatass loss = about 300hp) but I guess im going to have to wait until next month to get true dyno #s. My new turbo came in yesterday(t3/t4)I wanted to run the t4 on the dyno but I also blew a seal, so hopefully next month we can see what a ve equiped with a t3/t4 can do.
What other mods do you have? How are you dealing with super high compression ratios (static compression + boost)? What fuels are you using? What size fuel injectors are you using? What fuel pressure regulator? What size fuel line did you use? Dished pistons? Thicker head gaskets? What are you doing to cool the intake charge? A2A or A2W intercooler? Water Injection? 50% Methanol injection? What are you doing for engine management?
In my experience you don't just throw a turbo on an engine and double it's hp. It just doesn't happen. Or it doesn't happen for long.
06-11-2003, 09:45 PM
#4
Re: Re: almost had a dyno
Originally posted by shoult
So you've taken a 190 hp (really about 155-165 fwhp) engine and bolted a turbo on it and now it's 425 fwhp or even 300? Unless you've done some other serious mods to support a turbo at 15-20 psi or so you're not even going to be close to 300 fwhp.
What other mods do you have? How are you dealing with super high compression ratios (static compression + boost)? What fuels are you using? What size fuel injectors are you using? What fuel pressure regulator? What size fuel line did you use? Dished pistons? Thicker head gaskets? What are you doing to cool the intake charge? A2A or A2W intercooler? Water Injection? 50% Methanol injection? What are you doing for engine management?
In my experience you don't just throw a turbo on an engine and double it's hp. It just doesn't happen. Or it doesn't happen for long.
So you've taken a 190 hp (really about 155-165 fwhp) engine and bolted a turbo on it and now it's 425 fwhp or even 300? Unless you've done some other serious mods to support a turbo at 15-20 psi or so you're not even going to be close to 300 fwhp.
What other mods do you have? How are you dealing with super high compression ratios (static compression + boost)? What fuels are you using? What size fuel injectors are you using? What fuel pressure regulator? What size fuel line did you use? Dished pistons? Thicker head gaskets? What are you doing to cool the intake charge? A2A or A2W intercooler? Water Injection? 50% Methanol injection? What are you doing for engine management?
In my experience you don't just throw a turbo on an engine and double it's hp. It just doesn't happen. Or it doesn't happen for long.
06-11-2003, 09:51 PM
#6
Re: Re: almost had a dyno
Originally posted by shoult
So you've taken a 190 hp (really about 155-165 fwhp) engine and bolted a turbo on it and now it's 425 fwhp or even 300? Unless you've done some other serious mods to support a turbo at 15-20 psi or so you're not even going to be close to 300 fwhp.
What other mods do you have? How are you dealing with super high compression ratios (static compression + boost)? What fuels are you using? What size fuel injectors are you using? What fuel pressure regulator? What size fuel line did you use? Dished pistons? Thicker head gaskets? What are you doing to cool the intake charge? A2A or A2W intercooler? Water Injection? 50% Methanol injection? What are you doing for engine management?
In my experience you don't just throw a turbo on an engine and double it's hp. It just doesn't happen. Or it doesn't happen for long.
So you've taken a 190 hp (really about 155-165 fwhp) engine and bolted a turbo on it and now it's 425 fwhp or even 300? Unless you've done some other serious mods to support a turbo at 15-20 psi or so you're not even going to be close to 300 fwhp.
What other mods do you have? How are you dealing with super high compression ratios (static compression + boost)? What fuels are you using? What size fuel injectors are you using? What fuel pressure regulator? What size fuel line did you use? Dished pistons? Thicker head gaskets? What are you doing to cool the intake charge? A2A or A2W intercooler? Water Injection? 50% Methanol injection? What are you doing for engine management?
In my experience you don't just throw a turbo on an engine and double it's hp. It just doesn't happen. Or it doesn't happen for long.
06-11-2003, 10:03 PM
#8
I see the claims of 100 fwhp @ 4psi and a ton at higher psi values and the claim that it's on stock internals. My experience tells me that the 4 psi version will live, but is not going to give 100 fwhp. It's more likely going to be in the neigborhood 40-50 fwhp.
I also going to believe that 11 psi won't live long on stock internals. To much compression, to little fuel.
I'd be happy to see some dyno charts to prove me wrong about the first, but even a dyno won't convince me that that engine will live long at 11 psi without some modifications to support it.
I also going to believe that 11 psi won't live long on stock internals. To much compression, to little fuel.
I'd be happy to see some dyno charts to prove me wrong about the first, but even a dyno won't convince me that that engine will live long at 11 psi without some modifications to support it.
06-11-2003, 10:14 PM
#12
Originally posted by shoult
I also going to believe that 11 psi won't live long on stock internals. To much compression, to little fuel.
I also going to believe that 11 psi won't live long on stock internals. To much compression, to little fuel.
06-11-2003, 11:38 PM
#16
Originally posted by DA-MAX
being that there are no other turbo VEs to compare, you'll have to use the similar VQ motor...although the end performance between TCs and SCs differ on these cars(with turbo having a higher output at equal psi)there are numerous supercharged VQs running 10-11 psi on stock internals with stock injectors for years now, no one has reported adverse affects...like I said in the other supercharger post the FMU/high flow pump combo has proved to be the ultimate factor in tuning these high CR Maxima motors and is more than enough to support these PSI amounts on the stock equipment...I mean some of these guys are making excess of 325fwhp on the stock block, no IC or aquamist, no bigger injectors, its VERY possible!
being that there are no other turbo VEs to compare, you'll have to use the similar VQ motor...although the end performance between TCs and SCs differ on these cars(with turbo having a higher output at equal psi)there are numerous supercharged VQs running 10-11 psi on stock internals with stock injectors for years now, no one has reported adverse affects...like I said in the other supercharger post the FMU/high flow pump combo has proved to be the ultimate factor in tuning these high CR Maxima motors and is more than enough to support these PSI amounts on the stock equipment...I mean some of these guys are making excess of 325fwhp on the stock block, no IC or aquamist, no bigger injectors, its VERY possible!
06-12-2003, 12:06 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
at a crossroads...
how reliable is a turbo setup on a VE pushing like 6psi, intercooled, 370cc twin turbo Z injectors? i know its been done twice that we know of, so 4signs, how reliable is your setup? can anyone else speculate?
how reliable is a turbo setup on a VE pushing like 6psi, intercooled, 370cc twin turbo Z injectors? i know its been done twice that we know of, so 4signs, how reliable is your setup? can anyone else speculate?
06-12-2003, 12:13 AM
#18
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 243
Hah, hah, you can have a thousand horsepower but it ain't gonna do you any good if you keep breaking stuff. Course if you got this far I'm sure you'l figure out how to get that power to the asphalt without blowing through to much cash. Kudo's for pushing the limits. Just out of curiosity, did you do anything to your tranny or is it stock?
06-12-2003, 03:37 AM
#19
Originally posted by MaDMaX024
at a crossroads...
how reliable is a turbo setup on a VE pushing like 6psi, intercooled, 370cc twin turbo Z injectors? i know its been done twice that we know of, so 4signs, how reliable is your setup? can anyone else speculate?
at a crossroads...
how reliable is a turbo setup on a VE pushing like 6psi, intercooled, 370cc twin turbo Z injectors? i know its been done twice that we know of, so 4signs, how reliable is your setup? can anyone else speculate?
06-12-2003, 03:53 AM
#20
Originally posted by adamis
Hah, hah, you can have a thousand horsepower but it ain't gonna do you any good if you keep breaking stuff. Course if you got this far I'm sure you'l figure out how to get that power to the asphalt without blowing through to much cash. Kudo's for pushing the limits. Just out of curiosity, did you do anything to your tranny or is it stock?
Hah, hah, you can have a thousand horsepower but it ain't gonna do you any good if you keep breaking stuff. Course if you got this far I'm sure you'l figure out how to get that power to the asphalt without blowing through to much cash. Kudo's for pushing the limits. Just out of curiosity, did you do anything to your tranny or is it stock?
06-12-2003, 06:47 AM
#21
hmm,m it only takes 4 hours to pull and replace the tranny... that's only a day's worth of work to rip it open and fix it.. sounds like it's worth it to me instead of potentially tearing it apart because you're putting things off..
06-12-2003, 07:18 AM
#22
Originally posted by 4signs
I have been running 5-6psi intercooled for the last few months, on a couple of cold days I cranked the boost to 8-9(broke an axle), had a kink in my oil return line and blew the seal out of the turbo, still using the stock injectors, im running on the rich side,(8:1 fmu)but I dont think im maxing out the injectors a 6psi. (I need a fuel press gauge) So far the motor has been running strong.
I have been running 5-6psi intercooled for the last few months, on a couple of cold days I cranked the boost to 8-9(broke an axle), had a kink in my oil return line and blew the seal out of the turbo, still using the stock injectors, im running on the rich side,(8:1 fmu)but I dont think im maxing out the injectors a 6psi. (I need a fuel press gauge) So far the motor has been running strong.
06-12-2003, 07:23 AM
#23
sure thing.. lemme call up JWT and have them deliver a proper ECU right to him... HA!
you have any viable sources on where to obsain said fuel managament, without spending $2000 on a Motec, or simply buying another band-aid ECU piggyback?
you have any viable sources on where to obsain said fuel managament, without spending $2000 on a Motec, or simply buying another band-aid ECU piggyback?
06-12-2003, 08:19 AM
#24
slow down and re-read it dude. your missing the point...he is using fuel management, he is using the Vortech FMU with an 8:1 disc(thats 8lb increase in FP for every llb increase in boost pressure). he's not talking about A/F ratios...
Originally posted by shoult
8:1 and you only call that rich? I sweated the details when I was running 11 and 12:1. Yeah, it's better to be rich then lean, but you're drowning. You need some fuel management......
8:1 and you only call that rich? I sweated the details when I was running 11 and 12:1. Yeah, it's better to be rich then lean, but you're drowning. You need some fuel management......
06-12-2003, 09:11 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
IMHO the cheapest/best way for a VE turbo fuel management is with a Z32TT ECU. I've compared the wiring harnesses and they match up the only difference is that the fuel pump relay is slightly different and you won't have any boost control soleniods. Otherwise you can swap in the turbo ECU + MAF/injectors and it "should" run like it came from the factory with a turbo. However the powervalve might not work but you'd probably want to tie that open anyway with boost!
Originally posted by Matt93SE
sure thing.. lemme call up JWT and have them deliver a proper ECU right to him... HA!
you have any viable sources on where to obsain said fuel managament, without spending $2000 on a Motec, or simply buying another band-aid ECU piggyback?
sure thing.. lemme call up JWT and have them deliver a proper ECU right to him... HA!
you have any viable sources on where to obsain said fuel managament, without spending $2000 on a Motec, or simply buying another band-aid ECU piggyback?
06-12-2003, 09:11 AM
#26
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,371
thats funny that yours got stuck in second to because thats what happened to mine back in december and we rebiult the tranny and put it back to gether and when bench testing it still got stuck in second so we just streched out the springs that put pressure on the ***** and all is well for about 6 monthes and counting
06-12-2003, 02:55 PM
#28
Originally posted by Matt93SE
hmm,m it only takes 4 hours to pull and replace the tranny... that's only a day's worth of work to rip it open and fix it.. sounds like it's worth it to me instead of potentially tearing it apart because you're putting things off..
hmm,m it only takes 4 hours to pull and replace the tranny... that's only a day's worth of work to rip it open and fix it.. sounds like it's worth it to me instead of potentially tearing it apart because you're putting things off..
06-12-2003, 03:45 PM
#29
Originally posted by Nismo87SE
IMHO the cheapest/best way for a VE turbo fuel management is with a Z32TT ECU. I've compared the wiring harnesses and they match up the only difference is that the fuel pump relay is slightly different and you won't have any boost control soleniods. Otherwise you can swap in the turbo ECU + MAF/injectors and it "should" run like it came from the factory with a turbo. However the powervalve might not work but you'd probably want to tie that open anyway with boost!
I was wondering about that a few weeks ago, thanks for the info, now all I need is ecu and the maf
( I was going to use a piggy back, but ill try that first)
IMHO the cheapest/best way for a VE turbo fuel management is with a Z32TT ECU. I've compared the wiring harnesses and they match up the only difference is that the fuel pump relay is slightly different and you won't have any boost control soleniods. Otherwise you can swap in the turbo ECU + MAF/injectors and it "should" run like it came from the factory with a turbo. However the powervalve might not work but you'd probably want to tie that open anyway with boost!
I was wondering about that a few weeks ago, thanks for the info, now all I need is ecu and the maf
( I was going to use a piggy back, but ill try that first)
06-12-2003, 04:01 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
I remember Bryan H saying that he used a Z32 ECU in his max so I got the wiring diagrams and looked them up. Sure enough the NA ECUs are plug and play. The difference between the VE ECU and the DETT ECU is there aren't any boost control soleniods and the fuel pump relay has an extra wire. So if one could get the ECU + injectors/MAF (assuming the Z32 maf is different from maxima) then the car should run fine. TT ecu = boost friendly timing/fuel trim curves and a 7000rpm rev limiter (VE is 6500rpm). Now given a nice size T3/TO4E turbo with the VE's 10.1cr it should make more power per psi than a DETT should.
Originally posted by 4signs
I was wondering about that a few weeks ago, thanks for the info, now all I need is ecu and the maf
( I was going to use a piggy back, but ill try that first)
I was wondering about that a few weeks ago, thanks for the info, now all I need is ecu and the maf( I was going to use a piggy back, but ill try that first)
06-12-2003, 05:32 PM
#31
Originally posted by Nismo87SE
I remember Bryan H saying that he used a Z32 ECU in his max so I got the wiring diagrams and looked them up. Sure enough the NA ECUs are plug and play. The difference between the VE ECU and the DETT ECU is there aren't any boost control soleniods and the fuel pump relay has an extra wire. So if one could get the ECU + injectors/MAF (assuming the Z32 maf is different from maxima) then the car should run fine. TT ecu = boost friendly timing/fuel trim curves and a 7000rpm rev limiter (VE is 6500rpm). Now given a nice size T3/TO4E turbo with the VE's 10.1cr it should make more power per psi than a DETT should.
I remember Bryan H saying that he used a Z32 ECU in his max so I got the wiring diagrams and looked them up. Sure enough the NA ECUs are plug and play. The difference between the VE ECU and the DETT ECU is there aren't any boost control soleniods and the fuel pump relay has an extra wire. So if one could get the ECU + injectors/MAF (assuming the Z32 maf is different from maxima) then the car should run fine. TT ecu = boost friendly timing/fuel trim curves and a 7000rpm rev limiter (VE is 6500rpm). Now given a nice size T3/TO4E turbo with the VE's 10.1cr it should make more power per psi than a DETT should.
06-15-2003, 11:05 AM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,394
Wanna meet up sometime? My cars messed up so maybe I can score the 2k GLE for a lil while. I can video/take pics at the dyno if you want. Where are you going to dyno? If we meet up I'll see if I can grab a VG30DETT ecu from a friend to bring since his car is off the road for a lil while. Email me/AIM me/PM me. Thanks bro..
06-15-2003, 12:52 PM
#33
Originally posted by Maximamike
Wanna meet up sometime? My cars messed up so maybe I can score the 2k GLE for a lil while. I can video/take pics at the dyno if you want. Where are you going to dyno? If we meet up I'll see if I can grab a VG30DETT ecu from a friend to bring since his car is off the road for a lil while. Email me/AIM me/PM me. Thanks bro..
Wanna meet up sometime? My cars messed up so maybe I can score the 2k GLE for a lil while. I can video/take pics at the dyno if you want. Where are you going to dyno? If we meet up I'll see if I can grab a VG30DETT ecu from a friend to bring since his car is off the road for a lil while. Email me/AIM me/PM me. Thanks bro..
06-15-2003, 01:07 PM
#34
Originally posted by Maximamike Wanna meet up sometime? My cars messed up so maybe I can score the 2k GLE for a lil while. I can video/take pics at the dyno if you want. Where are you going to dyno? If we meet up I'll see if I can grab a VG30DETT ecu from a friend to bring since his car is off the road for a lil while. Email me/AIM me/PM me. Thanks bro..
06-15-2003, 04:54 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,394
Originally posted by 4signs
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