Headers?!
06-26-2003, 07:41 AM
#6
Originally posted by shoult
It says 90-94 which means VG since the VE only lived from 92-94.
They may bolt on, but if they're designed for the VG they may not have the proper breathing characteristics for the VE.
It says 90-94 which means VG since the VE only lived from 92-94.
They may bolt on, but if they're designed for the VG they may not have the proper breathing characteristics for the VE.
yes it will fit both motors and yes it will be just as effective on either (which I think is probably not very effective).
NO you shouldnt buy them because pacesetter makes crap for exhaust not to mention headers are a pain in the but to keep from leaking aroung the head.
06-26-2003, 02:24 PM
#7
Um ... no.....
Warpspeed sells one pipe for VG, a different one for VE for a reason....
And how are we getting 4 into 1 headers on a V6?
And I've been under the car and had both manifolds out and there isn't really room for equal length headers in the back at all since the only place for the "collector" to exit is between motor mount and engine cradle. You're not moving either of those.
And yes, GOOD header manufacturers DO make different headers for different applications of the same engine to take into account they're breathing. That's the WHOLE REASON for a header is to optimize the air pump efficiency. If all you're after the the rights to say "I have headers on my car" then don't worry about whether they're right for your engine as long as they bolt on.....
While your at it, get a dremel and just make your exhaust ports as big as possible. That way you can say you have ported heads.
BTW, I agree that Pacesetter stuff is usually crap. Thin, cheap tubing that normally rusts out before you can get it installed. I wouldn't buy their stuff.
Warpspeed sells one pipe for VG, a different one for VE for a reason....
And how are we getting 4 into 1 headers on a V6?
And I've been under the car and had both manifolds out and there isn't really room for equal length headers in the back at all since the only place for the "collector" to exit is between motor mount and engine cradle. You're not moving either of those.
And yes, GOOD header manufacturers DO make different headers for different applications of the same engine to take into account they're breathing. That's the WHOLE REASON for a header is to optimize the air pump efficiency. If all you're after the the rights to say "I have headers on my car" then don't worry about whether they're right for your engine as long as they bolt on.....
While your at it, get a dremel and just make your exhaust ports as big as possible. That way you can say you have ported heads.
BTW, I agree that Pacesetter stuff is usually crap. Thin, cheap tubing that normally rusts out before you can get it installed. I wouldn't buy their stuff.
06-26-2003, 03:32 PM
#8
haha you know what I mean...3 into one.
i think you miss my point.
you said this "They may bolt on, but if they're designed for the VG they may not have the proper breathing characteristics for the VE"
the WSP Y for the VG is the same ID as the Y for the VE. since they are the same then what difference would it make to breathing. The only reason WSP makes a different pipe is that there is a slight fitment problem with the larger tubes. I believe (I may actually be wrong on this) that the factory pipes are the same. Now if the tubing on the Pacesetters were routed in a way to make up the difference then it can work on both cars...and the breathing will be just as good on either...remember WSP makes their Ys the same ID on the VG and VE just a little different routing.
Yeah they make different size headers (usually only 2 for each app.) for your needs...not to mention different types (step headers, split Y headers) but what does that have to do with what we are talking about...you have to step up a lot in HP to have to move up to the large primary tube headers and there isnt that much of a step up from the VE to VG...the VE and VG use the SAME ID Y pipe so whats your point again?
besides these headers are just a glorified manifold and like you say are probably not equal length.
i think you miss my point.
you said this "They may bolt on, but if they're designed for the VG they may not have the proper breathing characteristics for the VE"
the WSP Y for the VG is the same ID as the Y for the VE. since they are the same then what difference would it make to breathing. The only reason WSP makes a different pipe is that there is a slight fitment problem with the larger tubes. I believe (I may actually be wrong on this) that the factory pipes are the same. Now if the tubing on the Pacesetters were routed in a way to make up the difference then it can work on both cars...and the breathing will be just as good on either...remember WSP makes their Ys the same ID on the VG and VE just a little different routing.
Yeah they make different size headers (usually only 2 for each app.) for your needs...not to mention different types (step headers, split Y headers) but what does that have to do with what we are talking about...you have to step up a lot in HP to have to move up to the large primary tube headers and there isnt that much of a step up from the VE to VG...the VE and VG use the SAME ID Y pipe so whats your point again?
besides these headers are just a glorified manifold and like you say are probably not equal length.
06-26-2003, 03:45 PM
#9
Port shapes are diff for ve/vg. Also head angles and bolt alignments are probably different. So before you guys continue to bash each other, consider the above first.
Plus have you guys seen a VE exhaust manifold w/o the heat shields? It's a heavy cast iron flange w/ tubular pipes welded into it. Pretty much like a header. Some rough flange edges inside the manifold that could stand some clean up but nothing major.
The VG does indeed have full cast iron manifolds(I believe). How good they are, I don't know.
Plus have you guys seen a VE exhaust manifold w/o the heat shields? It's a heavy cast iron flange w/ tubular pipes welded into it. Pretty much like a header. Some rough flange edges inside the manifold that could stand some clean up but nothing major.
The VG does indeed have full cast iron manifolds(I believe). How good they are, I don't know.
06-26-2003, 04:17 PM
#10
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Port shapes are diff for ve/vg. Also head angles and bolt alignments are probably different. So before you guys continue to bash each other, consider the above first.
Plus have you guys seen a VE exhaust manifold w/o the heat shields? It's a heavy cast iron flange w/ tubular pipes welded into it. Pretty much like a header. Some rough flange edges inside the manifold that could stand some clean up but nothing major.
The VG does indeed have full cast iron manifolds(I believe). How good they are, I don't know.
Port shapes are diff for ve/vg. Also head angles and bolt alignments are probably different. So before you guys continue to bash each other, consider the above first.
Plus have you guys seen a VE exhaust manifold w/o the heat shields? It's a heavy cast iron flange w/ tubular pipes welded into it. Pretty much like a header. Some rough flange edges inside the manifold that could stand some clean up but nothing major.
The VG does indeed have full cast iron manifolds(I believe). How good they are, I don't know.
Thanks for the clarification...I wasnt even thinking about the header bolting up to the head as much as the rest of it (considerin that the headers have to fit for anything else to fit lol)...I swear I dont think straight sometimes.
SO with the above statement by Jeff I declare that it is only for a VG and was just messing with yall because I knew all along
LOL
06-28-2003, 04:44 PM
#12
VG30 Maxima headers
I've got the opportunity to include a few header sets for the VG30E Maxima in an order of VQ headers I've placed with an overseas performance parts fabricator. This isn't a hard sell, and understandably many will want to see how the first ones work out, but if you're in the midst of a major engine building project or like to be the first on the block to have something new, read on.
This is a 6-2-1 design, and includes everything from the engine block to the cat. It consists of the two 3-1 headers and what is in effect a Y-pipe, but it is an equal length design to the 2-1 collector (the rear exhaust does a donut before it hits the collector). It will be made of a heavy gauge (I can find out the metric spec), mild steel tubing with HPC ceramic coating inside and out for corrosion protection and heat containment. This will carry HPC USA's lifetime warranty.
I've never seen this VG30 version, but it is the same basic configuration as the VQ headers I put on my car over the winter holidays and I have been very pleased with the performance. Plus, I've gotta admit that I still dig the deep, melodious sound every time I get into it. It sounded real good before, with Y-pipe, cat and catback - I was pleased with it - but with the headers I've realized the car sounds exactly like I alway wanted it to.
Comparability between the two engines is limited, but the basic dyno results I got follow. I've included the actual hp and torque (fp) differences of the headers vs a stock y-pipe, but the percentage differences are more useful for determining what they will do on a VG. I've got the dyno chart and a spreadsheet of the actual data for anyone that's interested (write to me directly). The VQ header on my 97 yielded these increases in power:
- a maximum horsepower increase [the largest margin between the header and stock dyno runs, at 5400rpm] of 18.6hp (11.4%) and a maximum torque increase of 18.5fp @ 4800rpm (11.4% @ 5400rpm),
- an increase in peak power of 16.5hp@5000rpm (9.9%)/15.8f@4600rpm (8.7%) and the header moved peak up from 4000rpm,
- an average power increase, what I consider to be the most important but least noticed dyno statistic, of 10.9hp (8.2%)/12.6fp (7.6%) average between 2300-6100rpm, indicating a solid increase across the entire power band, not just a blip.
How much better is this than a Y-pipe? Not exactly sure, it would take a numer of comparisons on different cars to answer that with certainty and I don't have one example (circumstances didn't permit it at the time and I'm not taking these things off again), but I can say that I've seen a lot of Y-pipes get tested and I've never seen one on my car, or any other, that performed like these headers did; if my results turn out to be average, and they're compared with the average Y-pipe, the header is about 40-50% better. Very crude, very preliminary, possibly better on built engines, but not an ill-founded estimate.
Anyway, I just realized I could get these VG30 headers added into this order and I'm trying to determine if there's any interest. I won't order any more or less, so its not a matter of making more money, but just wanted to see if any third gen owners were "daring" enough to want to get on board for this first order. BTW, these aren't a new design, they've been available in Australia and New Zealand for years.
Bottom line, retail price will be around $750-800, but any more than one or two gen3 headers will have to be secured in advance with a deposit, so on a pre-order basis to the adventurous, I'd knock off $100. These are very well made and designed parts, by a reputable "down under" performance shop so they're not cheap, but they are less than a comparable V6 header made here. For what its worth, there's not much profit involved given the weakness of the US$ and the major shipping costs so don't think we've inflated the price due to novelty -- more like what is the minimum we need to make to make a minimum order of these fairly substantial parts. If there's not a gen3 market for it, we'll understand.
If there is interest, I'll need a 25% deposit by the end of next week. Production timeline is one month, after which I will ship most of them by sea (which is covered in the price, though shipping from our warehouse in AZ is not). Anyone who wants theirs shipped by air can make special arrangements for that, paying the difference between the cost by sea and cost by air.
I'll follow the thread, but feel free to write to me with any questions at bcatts@earthlink.net. I also need to hear directly from anyone who has decided to order and I can provide instructions for the deposit.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
This is a 6-2-1 design, and includes everything from the engine block to the cat. It consists of the two 3-1 headers and what is in effect a Y-pipe, but it is an equal length design to the 2-1 collector (the rear exhaust does a donut before it hits the collector). It will be made of a heavy gauge (I can find out the metric spec), mild steel tubing with HPC ceramic coating inside and out for corrosion protection and heat containment. This will carry HPC USA's lifetime warranty.
I've never seen this VG30 version, but it is the same basic configuration as the VQ headers I put on my car over the winter holidays and I have been very pleased with the performance. Plus, I've gotta admit that I still dig the deep, melodious sound every time I get into it. It sounded real good before, with Y-pipe, cat and catback - I was pleased with it - but with the headers I've realized the car sounds exactly like I alway wanted it to.
Comparability between the two engines is limited, but the basic dyno results I got follow. I've included the actual hp and torque (fp) differences of the headers vs a stock y-pipe, but the percentage differences are more useful for determining what they will do on a VG. I've got the dyno chart and a spreadsheet of the actual data for anyone that's interested (write to me directly). The VQ header on my 97 yielded these increases in power:
- a maximum horsepower increase [the largest margin between the header and stock dyno runs, at 5400rpm] of 18.6hp (11.4%) and a maximum torque increase of 18.5fp @ 4800rpm (11.4% @ 5400rpm),
- an increase in peak power of 16.5hp@5000rpm (9.9%)/15.8f@4600rpm (8.7%) and the header moved peak up from 4000rpm,
- an average power increase, what I consider to be the most important but least noticed dyno statistic, of 10.9hp (8.2%)/12.6fp (7.6%) average between 2300-6100rpm, indicating a solid increase across the entire power band, not just a blip.
How much better is this than a Y-pipe? Not exactly sure, it would take a numer of comparisons on different cars to answer that with certainty and I don't have one example (circumstances didn't permit it at the time and I'm not taking these things off again), but I can say that I've seen a lot of Y-pipes get tested and I've never seen one on my car, or any other, that performed like these headers did; if my results turn out to be average, and they're compared with the average Y-pipe, the header is about 40-50% better. Very crude, very preliminary, possibly better on built engines, but not an ill-founded estimate.
Anyway, I just realized I could get these VG30 headers added into this order and I'm trying to determine if there's any interest. I won't order any more or less, so its not a matter of making more money, but just wanted to see if any third gen owners were "daring" enough to want to get on board for this first order. BTW, these aren't a new design, they've been available in Australia and New Zealand for years.
Bottom line, retail price will be around $750-800, but any more than one or two gen3 headers will have to be secured in advance with a deposit, so on a pre-order basis to the adventurous, I'd knock off $100. These are very well made and designed parts, by a reputable "down under" performance shop so they're not cheap, but they are less than a comparable V6 header made here. For what its worth, there's not much profit involved given the weakness of the US$ and the major shipping costs so don't think we've inflated the price due to novelty -- more like what is the minimum we need to make to make a minimum order of these fairly substantial parts. If there's not a gen3 market for it, we'll understand.
If there is interest, I'll need a 25% deposit by the end of next week. Production timeline is one month, after which I will ship most of them by sea (which is covered in the price, though shipping from our warehouse in AZ is not). Anyone who wants theirs shipped by air can make special arrangements for that, paying the difference between the cost by sea and cost by air.
I'll follow the thread, but feel free to write to me with any questions at bcatts@earthlink.net. I also need to hear directly from anyone who has decided to order and I can provide instructions for the deposit.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
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