Hey any guys out these have these will the performance gains be worth the price?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2434484296

 

Yes! About 80 Billion Times Already. It's Like Watching Carl Sagen On Tv. Billions And Billions.....

 

It looks kinda like the headers from pacesetter.

 

it is the pacesetter headers...notice the small pacesetter horse sticker in the pic.

 

wow, I'm glad I was the first person to post these...like a month ago

 

you weren't the first either...its a REALLY old topic

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=pacesetter

 

I'm thinking about getting these and combining them with the WP y-pipe and seeing what they can do but I hear so much bad sh** about Pacesetter that I don't know and if they dont perform or rust after like a year........ . Anyway how hard is it to remove the headers to do it because this mechanic told me he could do it for 500 but it sounds a lil steep. Any info guys ? oh and if I do buy it those bolts go straight into the garbage. I'll pick up some Turbo bolts

 

http://www.spiderautomotive.com/pacheadforni.html

Bit cheaper than that guy on ebay there.

 

$500 seems way too high...but on the other hand getting the rear manifold off is no fun either. but definently should cost less than $500. and yeah might as well do the exhaust studs as well

 

Ummm you cant use these and a wsp Y pipe. This takes the place of the manifolds and Y pipe on the car.

 

hmmm. I could have sworn I found these headers like a month after I joined (april) and posted about it...but I can't find anything on here or nwmaxima.com...hmm oh well

 

So you cant mix and match on this ? DAMN THAT KILLED IT THEN. CUSTOM HEADERS IT IS !! I would have just bought the headers and sold the Y or something but if I cant use the headers with the WSP Y then that sh** can stay on Ebay !!

 

I am researching the possibility of making headers for the 3rd gen. my friend's dad is a certified structural TIG welder and he is also certified on stainless steel.

If anyone knows some good sites with header theory and the mathematics of it, PM me. I'll make it worth your while .

 

There used to be a lot of articles on header design back in the 70's in car magazines; plus the big guys like Hooker and Headman expounded on it their catalogs of that era (now unavailable). I was somewhat of a student of this; there were two different cars I raced that I wanted headers for, and they would have to have been custom designs. What I remember about it, I posted here:
Pace Setter Headers
Here's the meat of it: To this, I can add that once you've got a design that produces the scavengning effect, making the header tube diameter smaller increases low end torque; making the tube diameter larger sacrifices low end torque for high rpm horsepower.

In all that material, it was evident that header design is a least part empirical (by trial and error), and any theoretical design used was a closely held proprietary secret of the major header companies and big racing teams.

So actually making the headers will be the least of your problems. If you don't get the design right; alls you get is noise. In other words, you're looking at a substantial developement project to get a header that works. The scavengning effect of headers on air/fuel ratios is pretty radical when it works- can the Maxima ECU adjust for it? Also, posts here about turbocharging seem to point out that stock injectors aren't big enough. Heck, headers would make the A/F ratio so LEAN that people used to burn holes in piston tops & burn out valves after installing headers because they didn't re-jet their carburetors to compensate.

To get material on header design, you going to spend some time in the library. The heyday of headers was long before the Internet existed so little material on them is to be found there. Look up old car magazine articles (Hot Rod, Car & Driver, ect) on headers. Then scratch around to see if you can find any old Hooker or Hedman catalogs that talked about design. Hedman is still alive, but Hooker go bought by Holley; and their newest designs shown in Hooker/Holley's internet catalogs are older than our 3rd Gen Maximas.

The impression i've got is that headers are somewhat obsolete technology; having been replaced by microprocessor controlled turbocharging and super charging for serious horsepower gains.

 

wow, this is the most informative post I have seen here to date.

thank you for the info, I'll talk to my aunt on monday and see if she can get me some books (she works at the library) on the subject. I was not planning on just making the headers, I know a lot of research has to go into their design and that a badly designed header is worthless.

headers are somewhat out-dated, but how else can we expect to get over 200hp on a VG without turbo or SC?

 

don't get your hopes up...headers won't bring the VG anywhere near 200whp....stock whp is ~120-130....without FI or a full build up the VG probably will never see more than ~170whp.

 

but without headers there would be no hope...

a fully built VE can push 300 I read somewhere. that is a bit over 100hp what the VE is rated at the crank. I'm sure it's possible to get 80hp from an NA VG, I just don't know how to do it yet.

 

fully built VE can't push jack because no one has ever made a fully built VE...talk and crank HP estimates means jack to me, numbers and proof make naysayers shut up. Rule to live by

and BTW, do some research over on Z31, you find that an n/A Z31(VG30e) will only make around 180rwhp with cams, headers, and full exhaust... Max o/d made 160ish fwhp in his 92gxe 3rd gen with cams, afc, msd 6, and full bolt-ons...but N/A VG is a loosing battle unfortunately(thats why hes going turbo) it was the cams that make it come alive. I seriously don't see the header doing any better, nissan manifolds are pretty well made and the headers that came out for the 4th gen failed to make a difference when compared to the standard less expensive Y-pipe upgrade.

either way good luck...80 whp without internal mods and/or FI is not somehting I'll hold my breath for.

 

I never said anything about no internal mods. I said fully built. higher compression, cams, ported and polished intake and exhaust, headers, ram air, the works.

I said nothing about no internal work...

 

ummmmm...so how do you expect to RELIABLY get higher compression without higher CR pistons?? thus yes, you must go inside the motor to to INTERNAL work and replace the pistons.

if you were thinking about raising compression by changing HG thickness then yeah there is no internal work needed so to speak, but then again, thats not only unreliable, but also more difficult because than you have to deal with timing belt/chain tension issues.

 

lol that sentence should read: I never said anything about "no internal mods"



that sentence made me sound rather un-educated...

 

I gotcha now. damn internet...if something isn't written clearly or isn't i nterpreted right by the someone it can screw up your whole point

 

exactly

lol, that sentence was very hick-like...Springfield must be having an effect on me

 

Poor Piggie. Livin' in Springneckfield!

BTW -- Stupid Ducks. Embarassing me and losing my money...

 

That's what people said about my VE Auto. Look at me now. A VG 5spd has a very good chance of getting 170fwhp. Just several bolt ons are needed.

 

then why not just get the headers and sell the Y-pipe?? whats the point in mixing and matching if the Pacesetter unit replaces the Y-pipe section anyways

 

Very good point. That's what I was thinking. Dude, if there were headers available for my VE and had dyno proof, you dang right I would get them and then sell my Ypipe. It would be EASY to sell my Ypipe used in perfect condition.

 

I'd buy it from you

 

I've got a prototype being made the weekend of the 10th...

 

For the VE? or VG?

 

That was the point I was trying to make. Headers alone won't do it, and the time, money, and effort you might to try building some good ones might well be better spent on Turbo or SC Project - and you do not have to start from scratch - lots of material here on going that direction. If you continue on course with the headers, your smartest move would be to try Pacesetter's and see what they've done right and wrong in order to help your own design efforts. I've geen considering starting a Thread here 'Do Maxima Headers make Sense???'

Anybody that wants to go headers had better first get under and over his engine and take a good look at how major a project it will be to install them; not to mention to get back to stock if they don't work and/or you can't stand the noise. Remember you'll have to drop the engine to get at the rear manifolds. Most people (maybe all) will have to deal with broken exhaust studs while they are doing it - not even close to a trivial operation by itself. This is why people are getting quotes of $500 to install them. That's in line with quotes for re-doing exhaust studs at $400 or so per bank. What if you find out that to get a good working header set it takes a modified ECU from Jim Wolfe and bigger injectors to handle it??? Big $$$ adders to the header and installation cost.

For headers to make sense, they are going to have to vastly outperform the WarpSpeed Y-pipe and the fact that the Y-pipe works well with and will bolt up to a stock exhaust. That's going to be tough to do - the Y-pipe design removes the #1 biggest restriction in the exhaust system; and stock exhaust manifolds are not that terribly restrictive. If you can't come up with a 'scavenging header', headers will be a total waste of time and effort - and maybe a waste even if you do. SC and Turbos really seem to make more sense if you're really wanting to build an 'all out' Maxima engine.

 

I'd mention that although I didn't push them hard with our first order of VQ headers from New Zealand, there is a header set available for the VG30E engine, in a full engine-to-cat design (includes y-pipe). I'd note that a full design is necessary in order to have equal length primary and secondary tubes, which is sort of fundamental to the whole concept.

These are a very good design, well and strongly made, ceramic coated inside and out, etc. so they aren't cheap at $700-750 but they are a good value. I don't want to give anyone the idea that I've got these on the shelf, but I would like to see if there is interest in some special orders the next time I get a batch of VQ headers. This is not a hard sell, just a reminder since I'm not sure when I'll be ordering more.

The design is well proven, and has been around for years -- something to consider before approaching this sort of complex project on a do-it-yourself basis. As difficult as these are to install, I'd sure want to be confident that the first part I put on was going to be the last one.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
bcatts@cattman.com

 

thus the reason for lots and lots of research and careful design. I also am not going to say anything except "I have a protype of 3rd gen headers in production" I will not specify engine type, the type of headers, whether or not they will need a new y-pipe, or even what kind of welds will be used.

The simple fact is that until I have a working prototype I will not be able to answer most of those items simply because I won't have enough info. I do know what kind of engine it's for, but I am not going to tell anyone because I don't want any anticipation or people paying me ahead of time for headers that I don't even know will improve the car over a y-pipe.

I will tell you that I am getting as close as possible to a true race header design and I'm doing everything possible to increase HP and torque over the entire range, not just high end.

 

headers really aren't THAT hard to install. it's a day's work, definitely, but it's not that bad. header installs on hondas and 4th gens are much much worse. Y pipe on a 3rd gen is about 20-30 minutes. headers are a few hours. the rear manifold isn't that bac, but you have to pull the rear engine mount and crossmember down to get it out of the car.

the front manifold requires removal of the AC compressor bracket, which requires removal of the A/C compressor and alternator.
wheeee. have fun.