intake manifold gasket...
12-11-2003, 09:03 PM
#1
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intake manifold gasket...
just guaging interest in a spacer...it would be similar to the pheno spacers that probe GT/MX6 owners and others use. i'll be having it cut this week and hopefully install it next week sometime, just wondering how many people would be interested.
the benefits should be: not as much heat would be transferred to the upper intake manifold, therefore maintaining ambient temp longer, therefore a cooler intake temp when it reaches the cylinders.
i dont want to see any posts about how the air is exposed to the manifold for such a short time it wont matter...i dont care. if no one is interested then i'll make just the 1 for myself and be done with it, if anyone else is interested i'll be happy to make them for whoever (provided you pay of couse).
i'll install mine ASAP (probably a week from 12/12/03) and post reactions if theres any interest soon after.
the benefits should be: not as much heat would be transferred to the upper intake manifold, therefore maintaining ambient temp longer, therefore a cooler intake temp when it reaches the cylinders.
i dont want to see any posts about how the air is exposed to the manifold for such a short time it wont matter...i dont care. if no one is interested then i'll make just the 1 for myself and be done with it, if anyone else is interested i'll be happy to make them for whoever (provided you pay of couse).
i'll install mine ASAP (probably a week from 12/12/03) and post reactions if theres any interest soon after.
12-11-2003, 09:55 PM
#4
Thanks for posting Pat. 
Now we're talkin. I've wanted to do this for over 6 months for the 4th gen VQ motor. Neighbor works at FedM/Felpro. Don from MobileTek was supposed to get me his prototype but that never happened.
What thickness did you decide on and how did you arrive at that? Any idea what phenolic material will be used? As I was learning it sounded like various thicknesses would have to be tested to arrive at the optimal power & temp result. Perhaps longer bolts too of course.
I've got an infrared pyrometer avail for external temp readings. And my new Auterra scan tool on the way for intake air temp, coolant temp, and whatever else I can plug into. Oh, and a mustang dyno with unlimited testing time if we want to do a couple of swap & pulls.
I hoped for optimistic results of +5hp/+7tq with this. Besides the Mazda/Ford stuff here's what I found.
http://www.hondata.com/dynoh22agasket.html
http://www.hondata.com/heatshield.html
http://www.raceway-usa.com/steeda%20engine.htm
http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...omponents.html
Now we're talkin. I've wanted to do this for over 6 months for the 4th gen VQ motor. Neighbor works at FedM/Felpro. Don from MobileTek was supposed to get me his prototype but that never happened. What thickness did you decide on and how did you arrive at that? Any idea what phenolic material will be used? As I was learning it sounded like various thicknesses would have to be tested to arrive at the optimal power & temp result. Perhaps longer bolts too of course.
I've got an infrared pyrometer avail for external temp readings. And my new Auterra scan tool on the way for intake air temp, coolant temp, and whatever else I can plug into. Oh, and a mustang dyno with unlimited testing time if we want to do a couple of swap & pulls.
I hoped for optimistic results of +5hp/+7tq with this. Besides the Mazda/Ford stuff here's what I found.
http://www.hondata.com/dynoh22agasket.html
http://www.hondata.com/heatshield.html
http://www.raceway-usa.com/steeda%20engine.htm
http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...omponents.html
12-12-2003, 05:31 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by Matt93SE
give me numbers on price... also, you going to have this done, or do it yourself?
I've got a place here that will do them for pretty cheap, given I can find the plastic.
I've got a place here that will do them for pretty cheap, given I can find the plastic.
12-12-2003, 05:46 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1
Thanks for posting Pat. Now we're talkin. I've wanted to do this for over 6 months for the 4th gen VQ motor. Neighbor works at FedM/Felpro. Don from MobileTek was supposed to get me his prototype but that never happened.
What thickness did you decide on and how did you arrive at that? Any idea what phenolic material will be used? As I was learning it sounded like various thicknesses would have to be tested to arrive at the optimal power & temp result. Perhaps longer bolts too of course.
I've got an infrared pyrometer avail for external temp readings. And my new Auterra scan tool on the way for intake air temp, coolant temp, and whatever else I can plug into. Oh, and a mustang dyno with unlimited testing time if we want to do a couple of swap & pulls.
I hoped for optimistic results of +5hp/+7tq with this. Besides the Mazda/Ford stuff here's what I found.
http://www.hondata.com/dynoh22agasket.html
http://www.hondata.com/heatshield.html
http://www.raceway-usa.com/steeda%20engine.htm
http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...omponents.html
Now we're talkin. I've wanted to do this for over 6 months for the 4th gen VQ motor. Neighbor works at FedM/Felpro. Don from MobileTek was supposed to get me his prototype but that never happened. What thickness did you decide on and how did you arrive at that? Any idea what phenolic material will be used? As I was learning it sounded like various thicknesses would have to be tested to arrive at the optimal power & temp result. Perhaps longer bolts too of course.
I've got an infrared pyrometer avail for external temp readings. And my new Auterra scan tool on the way for intake air temp, coolant temp, and whatever else I can plug into. Oh, and a mustang dyno with unlimited testing time if we want to do a couple of swap & pulls.
I hoped for optimistic results of +5hp/+7tq with this. Besides the Mazda/Ford stuff here's what I found.
http://www.hondata.com/dynoh22agasket.html
http://www.hondata.com/heatshield.html
http://www.raceway-usa.com/steeda%20engine.htm
http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...omponents.html
originally i was going to cut it myself, i have everything for it, but it'd be alot easier to have a shop do it..if they cant do it within a week and i have some time and a spare gasket, i'll just do it myself tomorrow or something and put it on tomorrow.
the part about dyno-ing and such is not how i'm approaching it.
this is how i'm doing it..for now (read: low budget, zero downtime). i know that my upper plenum gets warm after running for a while, after i install the gasket i'm going to use my hand thermometer(lay my hand on the plenum) and see what the difference is.
i know that after several hours of driving, the plenum is too hot to touch,i'll see what this spacer can do about that. about the thickness for optimal power, thats a whole different type of thing than i want to get into. the 1/4" spacer is small enough to use the stock bolts(and keep the rear coils on the rear plugs) and still clear the strut bar for us VE owners, i know that messing with runner length is the way to go and believe me i'll be doing that soon enough (look up the custom manifolds made for 4G's and you'll see what i mean). alot of the domestic motors i've seen (also 6g's in diamonte/3000gt) use a 1" spacer and that will not work for us for obvious reasons
as far as power gains, dyno your car cold and you will not (should not) see any difference with and without the spacer, the purpose is more to prevent heat soak and keep the car feeling fresh.
next step is, if anyone (preferably local) has a great need to send me a set of used lower plenum gaskets, i can get those rolling too if the material i have works to my expectations.
i'll post progress later today.
12-12-2003, 06:30 AM
#7
heck if i was local i'd let you borrow the whole upper/lower intake to use, but your on the other side of the country.
longer runners = more low end torque too, that could help aaron get his powerband back down (after the porting he did).
longer runners = more low end torque too, that could help aaron get his powerband back down (after the porting he did).
12-12-2003, 06:57 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by MrGone
heck if i was local i'd let you borrow the whole upper/lower intake to use, but your on the other side of the country.
longer runners = more low end torque too, that could help aaron get his powerband back down (after the porting he did).
longer runners = more low end torque too, that could help aaron get his powerband back down (after the porting he did).
)
12-12-2003, 07:29 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by internetautomar
I might have a lower set for a VE lying around.
is this spacer for the upper plenum on the VE?
I've seen em for the 3.0 mitsu motor, But didn't think of making it for a VE
is this spacer for the upper plenum on the VE?
I've seen em for the 3.0 mitsu motor, But didn't think of making it for a VE
the set i need doesnt have to be new(this is for cost reasons, i have no problem paying $5 for experimentation, but $50+ for gaskets i could probably ruin isnt a good idea for me), let me know, you've got my AIM account, so shoot me an IM..i'm always on.
12-12-2003, 05:49 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by internetautomar
Im ed ya!....
let me know..
12-12-2003, 05:54 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Where'd you get the plastic? I've been trying to find a place here that sells that kind of stuff, but most industrial plastics supply places only want to sell by the truckload..
_________
12-13-2003, 06:08 PM
#24
Originally Posted by MaDMaX024
in response to your IM(since you're not on), would it be cheaper to throw them into one of those picture envelopes? it'd be like a dollar to send that..
let me know..
let me know..
My main concern with a pic envelope is them getting bent.
Because IIRC they are "O'ringed" metal gaskets.
12-14-2003, 08:11 AM
#28
Originally Posted by MaDMaX024
update: gasket wont be here till tuesday, i'll still check out a few shops on monday and see what the deal is..had a busy couple of days so i didnt get around to it.
12-15-2003, 11:03 AM
#29
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i should have my gasket installed this week ~friday so if anyone is going to the CT meet on sunday (12/21), assuming all is well with it, you can see what kind of difference it makes in upper plenum temps....assuming it works. i'll post results after its installed.
also for those of you looking for a price, i can ballpark it at $70 shipped at the most..i'll know when i buy a proper sized sheet of material and get a machine shop price (tomorrowish)
EDIT: decided to do TB spacer too..i should be installing everything friday night.
also for those of you looking for a price, i can ballpark it at $70 shipped at the most..i'll know when i buy a proper sized sheet of material and get a machine shop price (tomorrowish)
EDIT: decided to do TB spacer too..i should be installing everything friday night.
12-17-2003, 06:43 AM
#30
Hope your results are what you expect Pat. I have extra 4thG gaskets for both upper and lower plenums lying around but maybe it's easier for me to find a shop than can duplicate here. 1/4" looks good for the upper one as the stock one is about 3/16". How much for say a 14"x12" piece of material?
12-17-2003, 07:43 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1
Hope your results are what you expect Pat. I have extra 4thG gaskets for both upper and lower plenums lying around but maybe it's easier for me to find a shop than can duplicate here. 1/4" looks good for the upper one as the stock one is about 3/16". How much for say a 14"x12" piece of material?
another update: stupid gasket isnt in yet, machine shops are too backed up to do it, so hopefully tomorrow (thursday) i'll be cutting it myself and installing it friday.
12-17-2003, 07:59 AM
#32
you have a 3/16" gasket between your upper and lower intake?!?!
Pat- I'm going to try to get one by ~May 1st. We have some NW Maxima drags coming up, and I'd like to take down the 4th gens
Pat- I'm going to try to get one by ~May 1st. We have some NW Maxima drags coming up, and I'd like to take down the 4th gens
12-17-2003, 12:17 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by MrGone
you have a 3/16" gasket between your upper and lower intake?!?!
Pat- I'm going to try to get one by ~May 1st. We have some NW Maxima drags coming up, and I'd like to take down the 4th gens
Pat- I'm going to try to get one by ~May 1st. We have some NW Maxima drags coming up, and I'd like to take down the 4th gens
i feel like i'm the next matt93se, except to a lesser degree
12-17-2003, 06:29 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Nismo87SE
I have installed phenolic spacers on my se-r. If your going to make a set you will need to get longer bolts and studs to compensate for the spacers.
12-17-2003, 06:59 PM
#36
you say that...
but when you screw those bolts in, how far out are the bolts when they start catching threads?
remember, you need at least a full bolt width of thread IN the material to get a good hold on it... that means 2 threads in the block won't hold- especially with aluminum!
but when you screw those bolts in, how far out are the bolts when they start catching threads?
remember, you need at least a full bolt width of thread IN the material to get a good hold on it... that means 2 threads in the block won't hold- especially with aluminum!
12-17-2003, 07:18 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Matt93SE
you say that...
but when you screw those bolts in, how far out are the bolts when they start catching threads?
remember, you need at least a full bolt width of thread IN the material to get a good hold on it... that means 2 threads in the block won't hold- especially with aluminum!
but when you screw those bolts in, how far out are the bolts when they start catching threads?
remember, you need at least a full bolt width of thread IN the material to get a good hold on it... that means 2 threads in the block won't hold- especially with aluminum!
assuming my alarm cooperates:angry:..thanks for finding that FSM page matt