Phatsta

I was almost certain there was a body work section somewhere in these forums but I couldn't find any..?

Anyway. I'm trying to find out more about using plastic with body work. It's suppose to be easier to work with, to be able to get a more smooth surface. I've only been using (man I'm not even sure what it's called in english) Plastic Padding which is not really plastic... hmm I really hope you know what I mean coz I can't find the words... It's that clay-like stuff you use together with hardener.

What I wanna know more about is the liquid plastic that some ppl use to fabricate their own body kits with. Could you use that for repairing smaller things like filling out cracks and spots in the paint before a repaint?

The problem I have is that the padding is too thick so I can't get a smooth and even surface to paint on. If I'd paint as is I'd get something like a swiss cheese... not really fond of the idea.

Any tips I'd be happy

Btw I've read awsm66's cardomain site and posts like a bible but I still have these questions unanswered.

Edit: *duh* I just remembered what the word was; Filler sometimes it's that easy to forget

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

bondo/body filler?

if it's a final spot putty then use that...spot putty. don't start making new panels using strictly bondo.

if you have a lot of pin holes in the bondo/filler then use the spot putty. lay down a guide coat and long board sand it and find the low spots....keep filling until it's even. if it's really bad then consider replacing the panel all together.

Michael

iTrader: (21)

what Dan said.

The key to filler is using very little of it (as in not really thick). Do all your metal shaping with a hammer and dolly and then use as little filler as possible. You also need to go well beond the imperfection area in order to get it right...dont worry most of your filler and primer usually ends up on the floor if done right.

Like dan said use a long board (long flat sanding block) to get the panels shape...sand in an X shape. Use a guide coat to find your low spots. Always start with a course grit paper (min 80 but depending on the filler etc you may want to use 36 grit)...just remember that primer is also part of your plastic work. You use primer to build up small sand scratches you left and also to help with the transition from metal to filler. There really is a lot involved and a lot of people do not really realize that...they (not talking about you here) think you just slap some bondo on and sand it down smooth for a good finish but that cant be farther from the truth.

Here is a video with some sanding tips...its for curved surfaces and he is sanding primer instead of filler but it talks about a guide coat and low spots etc.

I also highly suggest you spend the money to buy his or other peoples video tapes on body work. He has different ones from buffing to metal work to painting etc. click here for his site...paintucation. There are other good video tapes out there as well.

as far as using actual plastic repair (not filler but stuff made to repair plastic bumpers etc) or whatever...you want to stay away from that on metal surfaces. Metal and plastic expands at a different rate and you will get cracking.

btw there are several different types of fillers. Some are water proof and some arent. You have metal fillers (ground up aluminum basically), fiberglass strand fillers, regular plastic fillers and then you have different finishing putties for final sanding and pin hole cover up.

GREGB287

body work should not be done by untrained people. After working at a bodyshop you would not believe the things i have seen people do to try to fix there cars. i have seen people try to fill huge dents with bondo hahah .

Michael

iTrader: (21)

Yeah this is true but I believe people can train themselves with the right tools (videos, watching pros do body work etc.). It can be done and I am an example of that. I never went to any formal school for body work but have friends that own their own shops. I have helped them and learned from them. Then I picked stuff up on my own or from reading body repair boards etc.

I get what you are saying and know first hand because I have seen the same type of things but thats a pretty big blanket statement because you can learn this stuff on your own. Its really not hard but just time consuming and you have to have patience.

Phatsta

Alright, many thanks guys Great movie clip. It's really easy once you learn right?

Well this is my problem


As you can see there's a wave-like edge showing under the paint close to the end of the (don't know what to call it so lets call is shield). (Oh and don't worry about the paint, it's just a temporary cheap spray paint that couldn't resist a wash) This is because I had to fabricate the shield edge completely, it was completely rusted through. The problem is to get the rounded shape of the shield edge. Also, the metal-based filler that I use (a very 'finegrained' such) will cause small air-holes (almost like bubbles) that I have to sand away, and by then I'm back where I started. I've used a litre of filler already, just for this edge, and I've been at it for a week. The fabrication stretches from the top of the shield to the back and very bottom of it. So except for this part here I've done quite well if I say so myself

The way I see it there's two reasons for these air-holes to appear. 1) I don't clean the surface enough before applying filler, or 2) the filler is not 'finegrained' enough. And I always clean the surface with thinner and let it dry before I apply anything so it has to be option 2.
I'll try to find this putty you're talking about. Just have to figure out what it is first

What would you say be a good working order;
Filler - sand - primer - sand - filler - sand and so on or..?

Phatsta

I wouldn't say I'm untrained, I've done a Ford Transit before this car. The car had 18 completely rusted places that failed in the emissions, and I got that approved so I have the basics. This is my next-step project, because I want to learn, and if you ask me it's my problem how it looks, isn't it?

But I totally understand your point, I've seen stuff like that as well I I don't even work anywhere near a body shop!

Michael

iTrader: (21)

well pin holes are common. Its due to the way the filler is sitting in the can and also from the way you are mixing it maybe. Anyway a good polyester glazing putty is Easy Sand by Evercoat. I dont know if you can get that where you are but its great stuff. Evercoat makes it and this is their site.

It will take the pin holes out and also give you a good easy way to finish any waves or slight low spots in your filler.


your steps are ok but you dont have to prime between filler and finishing putty. You can do all your body work including the finishing putty then prime with a good urethane primer and repeat after block sanding a few times untill all the low spots/sand scratches are gone. you have to be careful here and use a good primer or you can have shrinking which will cause the scratches/low spots to re-appear after the primer has shrank into it.

Of course if you have gone to the metal then you can either use a water resistant filler or prime the bare metal with epoxy primer. The epoxy primer is great for applying filler over...its good stuff.

Phatsta

Pin holes... I'll remember that. Yes it's probably because I usually mix in a little too much or too little hardener. I haven't had the chance of learning exactly how you're suppose to do so much of the work is based on learning from mistakes.

I'm pretty sure I know where to get that putty. I'll try and use that. I did use an epoxy based rust preventer primer on the metal before applying the filler. But I found that when cleaning the surface with thinner is dissolves the primer, causing even more low spots... should I just wash it of with water instead?

The real tricky part with block sanding this place is the inner edge of the shield. because it's bent and the block is not. so far I've just sanded by hand in those difficult places, but I might be better off using a round shaped stick or something, like the guy did in the movie clip.

The plain places aren't that difficult, it's those curves and round spots that messes stuff up...

Michael

iTrader: (21)

don’t use lacquer thinner to clean before doing anything. Instead go buy a gallon of wax and grease remover (it’s cheaper than thinner) and use it instead. Just be sure to wipe off the cleaner before it dries or you are just putting contaminants back onto the panel.

yeah use a round block for curved areas.

Burn MF Burn

or you can try a paint mixing stick or some other thin piece of wood to fix the sandpaper to and that will flex around the curves also you didnt say anything about it but wet sand make some soapy water up and squirt it on while sanding it will remove all the dust and help to keep the paper clean.

Michael

iTrader: (21)

no you dont want to wet sand filler or even finishing putty. Heck I dont even like to wet sand primer but I do it sometimes. Wet sanding if for finish sanding of the clear after you know you will not have any contaminent problems with it imo.

What I do is keep a grey or red scotch brite pad handy and when the sanding paper gets loaded up with dust I wipe it with the pad and its clean and ready to go again.

EasySand sands so easy (haha hence the name) so its really easy to work with using 180 or 220 grit paper.

The stiring stick is a good idea though and I use it all the time for small places that dont work for my sanding pads.

Phatsta

I know this takes time and all, and imo that's ok, no need to rush these things. But I wonder how the heck those Pro's do this all in like one day?? Of course that's why they're called Pro's But still...

Just out of curiosity...
I watched Discovery channel the other day and there was this expertise body shop that Chevrolet hired to do some custom work and they used clay to shape new stuff, like a body kit in this case. That was really cool stuff and I wonder if that's even possible for an amateur... Would be cool to try. Anyone know anything about that stuff?

Phatsta

Another question if anyone feels up to it...

When working with clear plastic, is there any way of sanding old plastic to be nice and clean again? Like the guy at this page does with perfectly good panels (ok not quite the same but still he's making a very shiny paint even better by wet sanding it) http://www.autobodystore.com/rsw.htm

The reason for asking is my centerpiece in the trunk. It's not as good looking as it once was. It's kinda dull. If I could get the old shiny surface back I'm sure it'd look much better. Same goes for the back lights. Any way of doing this?

Phatsta

while talking about it I just had to show you this
http://home.cwru.edu/~jsh28/drew/bodykit.html

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

for the plastic, you can use some extremely fine sandpaper (1500 or 2000 grit), and wet sand it for a while to remove the top layer of oxidation and dirt.. when you're done with that, you can use polishing compound and a buffing pad to shine it up again- just like you would with paint.

when you're done, be sure to put a couple coats of wax on it- yes, even over the plastic. that will help seal the surface and keep it from doing that again.

this also works well with plastic headlight lenses.

Phatsta

Alright, terrific! That's the first thing I'm gonna do this week. Thanks

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

don't wet sand if there's any color/decals on the light itself.
you can wet sand clear plastic headlights with something like 2000 grit...then follow it up with some 3M perfect it compound on a foam pad. that would make it look like new...err look newer.

for your tailights...you can get plastic polish. megs makes a plastic cleaner and polish for this.

GREGB287

I would try using compound before you wet sand the headlights just incase because plastic is easier to remove scratches from. who knows you may be able to save you some time and mess.

Phatsta

actually I was mostly interested in doing the tail lights first. the head lights aren't that bad really. well they can always be better but still...

so I wouldn't need to sand the taillights, just polish them?

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

correct...unless you have a very deep scratch on the light itself. you shouldn't have to wet sand the tailights. plastic cleaner and polish should do it.

also the stock headlights are glass....good luck trying to get anything to buff out of that.

Phatsta

yeah I know, that's why I didn't ask about them in the first place
it was all Matts fault it came up for discussion