VEvolution

I searched around a bit, and couldn't find anything on the subject, so Im guessing this hasn't been discovered yet? Just thought I'd share..

Since there have been mixed feelings about the 4-cyl Yota filter many VE owners have been using, aside from speculations of the filters being made cheaper now, originally most had doubts in the filtering capabilities of the small Yota filter since it was rather smaller than the V6 filters Nissan discontinued.

It was oil change time about a month ago, and I decided to give the expensive Mobil 1 a go, since I heard a few good things about them. While doing the change at my dad's garage, he had a spare Yota V8 filter layin around, so we decided to see if it fits, and he was quite stunned at how small the YZZF2 was for the V6 as well.

As you can see below, the V8 filter fit great. And now at 1000 miles into the oil change in freezing weather, not a tick or a clack.



Just look at the size difference between the two.



I wouldn't mind some feedback on what you guys think. Thanks.

Tip: My dad also gave me another good idea. Pulling the fuel pump fuse and cranking a few times right after the oil change will get oil pressure up. But Im sure many of you knew this already.

bhunter

iTrader: (3)

Did you tick and clack before? I use that filter on my Tundra. I would be willing to try it also.

VEvolution

I use to start to tick around 1000 miles and clack around 2000 once in awhile when using the YZZF2. But if some are thinking my VTC's aren't that bad, when I bought the car it was clacking most of the time with the STP filter. And it was summer with not many cold starts. Of course it could have been also ticking because the oil hasn't been changed for awhile.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

wow I didn't know the yota filter was so small. I've been using the mobil 1 filter for a while now, and I found them at a good price.

Nice find on the v8 filter. There aren't many reasons not to use it, as long as it has a good antidrainback valve in it. Also the bypass valve on most filters is within a few psi, I don't think it makes much of a difference anyway.

edit: also, it doesn't matter if you crank the engine without the fuel pump fuse in, its still a dry start-up, any frictional wear will still take place. Also the engine doens't get cranked fast enough to really generate any real pressure on the pump, the engine has to drive the pump to generate real pressure.

edit2: also since you have the VE, you can fully fill the oil filter when installing it, that will help the dry startup issue tremendously.

HTPerformance

iTrader: (6)

I used that size Fram filter, I know you all hate Fram, but... no VTC issues still up until the day I sold the car.

-Brian

AndyVE30DE

I bought a toyota filter p/n 90915-YZZF1 is exactly the same as the 90915-YZZF2 except that the F1 is longer. Going to do the oil change sometime this week when its not below zero outside. I'll update you guys once I have installed it.
Andy

Will

iTrader: (2)

Yikes, made in Thailand?!

Does the VE engine have that long stem on the filter mounting housing like the VG?

I think I might give this a go on my VG. Thanks for the tip. I've always liked Denso parts. I wonder what it is about the Toyota filters that work. I thought that the smaller filter might increase oil pressure, which allows the oil to circulate up into the valves quicker to reduce or get rid of the noise.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

it has an internal anti drainback valve i believe. some toyota models have the filter mounted in some angled, inverted manner (upside down).

i could have sworn i tried a "big" toyota filter on my VG way back when, but i don't remember any of them fitting. oh well, glad they help on the VE's.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

10char

Will

iTrader: (2)

I guess I shouldn't bother then, eh?

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

I thought the VE and VG use the same filter size.

VEvolution

How much do your Mobil 1's run you for? You probably get them in a set, thats why it comes out cheaper for you. From AutoZone, it's almost $12, when everything else is around $5.

You have a good point on why pulling the fuel pump fuse makes no difference, but I can tell you why I disagree and think it's enough oil for it not to be a dry start-up. Every oil change I did before, no matter what oil or filter I used(By the way, I always fill the filter with oil before installing), once come start up time.. I would get the meanest loudest VTC clack the VE world has ever heard, and after a few minutes it would disapear for a thousand miles or so. Now that I did the oil change with pulling the fuse, and giving it like 5 good cranks.. After putting the fuse back in, she fired up and purred in silence. Something that I never experienced after a VE oil change. So you decide. My guess is, even though it may not be enough oil pressure generated by the pump from slow engine cranks, it may just be enough for it not to be dry.

Also, I remember everyone saying to fill the oil filter half way, not fully. But I never understood why. Interesting how non of the FSM's or Tech books I've read even mention this trick though.

What engine type is the F1 for? 6 cyl?

I thought so too, since Nissan discontinued the VE filters and told us to go ahead and use the VG instead.

AndyVE30DE

The F1 replaced the F2's in newer toyota cars. I believe they it is still used in a four cylinder engine though.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

the thing is, start up the the worst moment for the engine, and cranking it over five times can't be good for it. Its like murder on the cylinder walls.

I get the mobil 1 filter for around $6.50 from an infinity online parts dealer, I bought like 10 at once. they come in generic packaging, thats fine with me. I put the remainder of them in sandwich bags (zip locks) to keep them high and dry. I can't remember the sites name, it was like infinityperformance.com or something out that nature.

What was your point on filling the filter half way? (as aposed to filling it all the way?), were you just saying that it should get primmed before installation.

VEvolution

Hmm.. Sounds good. If I ever decide to stick with the Mobil 1 filter, I'll check these guys out. Thanks. A good question to find out would be if these V8 Yota filters could be had cheaper than the Mobil in a set. It's obviosly a bigger filter, and Toyota's quality in filters has always been known to be top notch, which is why most have decided to use it on their VE.

Well first of all, compare how fast a few cranks is compared to the RPM the engine reaches on a cold engine start-up? At what point do you think theres more damage?

I don't know if you noticed above, but after doing the fuse pull procedure I mentioned, Im not getting VTC noise after an oil change. I would always get it before! Isn't that telling you something? But if thats not enough..

Have someone with an oil pressure gauge in their car keep the car from starting and let it crank a few times. Check the oil pressure then. Many engine rebuilders actually do this procedure before initial start up.

No.. Primmed for what? You gotta have oil in the filter when you start the engine, thats why we fill it with oil before installation. I just always heard to fill the filter half way from everybody but I never asked why do we fill it half way. Never heard to fill it all the way like you mentioned. I should find out, but if I had to make an educated guess, I would say the oil filter is never full during engine operation or at start up(Or is it?). So why over fill it?

Phoenix

So this thread got to me at just the right time as I'm on my way out the door to go get oil change stuff... (and my wife's christmas present). I think I'll stop and get a Yota filter, so when the parts desk asks me what car this is for, what do I tell them? I know the 98 Corolla works for the 4-cyl...

Also, what are you guys paying for these filters?

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

I just ask for them by p/n. When they ask what car, I tell them the truth. It is good for a raised eyebrow...

Phoenix

Roger that... but then they get all smug because we (nissan owners) are admiting that they're better.

Scope

iTrader: (5)

No you're admitting that nissan discontinued the filter to a car that ironically toyota makes one for (not intentionally). But it does helps Yota's sales.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well let's see now:

I'm using an oil filter from a Toyota, 13" rotors from a Ford mustang cobra, 4 piston calipers from a 300z, wheels from a 350z, suspension bushings made for a 4-gen, high flow cat from a 4-gen, FSTB from a 5th gen, etc.. I think every car in world is feeling smug on my car right now.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

they do

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

They are better....

Michael

iTrader: (21)

When I told my Toyota parts guy I was putting it on a Maxima he acted like he had heard that one before and was no big deal to him. I thought it was kind of strange because I live in a small city and surely there arent a lot of Nissan guys buying Toyota filters.

VEvolution

Don't forget the 300z fuel filter.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Napa Gold ftw

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

Of course its full . By filling it all the way, you prevent the air pocket in the filter from being pushed through the rest of the engine. When you remove an old filter its full.

The thing is your not preventing anything by cranking over the engine a few times. You simply won't hear the unprimed vtc's clack because its not spinning fast enough to hear the audiable clacking sound. The startup wear will still ocur. But hey, to all their own.

VEvolution

Hm, I never payed much attention, but when I flip them over to let out the old oil, not much comes out. I wanna check that out next time to be sure. Air pocket coming from the oil filter? Never heard about that either. But I'll definatly try to do more research on which is it. Half full or full...

No, I don't think you understood correctly. Im not hearing the VTC's after the engine is started. So obviosly they are lubricated. Unlike before, it would clack like crazy after an oil change without the fuse pull procedure. The main reason for cranking the car a few times to get the oil pressure up is because the speed of the engine while it is being cranked is not enough to hurt anything compared to the speeds the engine is spinning at after you've actually started it. But now you have to wait for the oil pressure to rise, when you could have had it already if you tried the procedure. But yeah, your right. To each his own. Im just just tryin to pass along some good info. It's up to everyone else if they choose to use it or not.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

I'm 100% sure that there is no air in the oil filter when the engine is running. So by installing a dry or half filled oil filter the air in them has to get pushed out.

In the past I have installed an oil pressure gauge, and observed that oil pressure is almost instantly there, maybe 1 or 2 seconds. There were a lot of guys on this forum (not just third gen) in conversations about letting the car warm up, would talk about giving the engine a chance to build up oil pressure, but I've observed that pressure is there almost instantly.

Honestly I think your causing more engine wear by cranking the engine over a few times prior to starting it, but since its only after an oil change its not a big deal. The vtc noise that you hear at startup is something that happens CONTINUOUSLY on an engine with completly failed vtc's, and that doesn't fry their engine (rarely it does). What I'm trying to get at is that what your doing is in no way preventive maintainance to save your vtc's They fail because its a defective return spring in their mechanism.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Since the VE filter is straight up/down, I'd just fill it up as much as I could.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

you can try it if you want Will, toyota makes good filters. i have an oil filter relocation kit on my VG. I hated the oem setup. But the funny thing is, that the relocation kit used a fram filter size that crossed over to the "big" V6/V8 toyota sizes, so that's what i'm running now. (pix coming soon) I'm trying to remember to find a place that i can have make some AN fitting steel braided lines for it, for peace of mind over rubber lines.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

In all honesty though, filters aside, start-up wear is a fact of life, OEMs know this and they try to design motors that will last despite this fact, and they have, Jap. motors are as reliable as ever. The key is to avoid wear that IS easily and wholely preventable. Just change the damn oil ON TIME, and use decent name brand oil and filter. On time, regular oil changes are the key. If you don't change the oil on time, the molecules break down due to the pounding the engine parts put on them, and the oil looses it's lubricative properties. At the same time it collects more and more dirt & contaminants in suspension, along with becoming more acidic from water vapor & nitrides(ates?) from combustion forming a weak acid. So over time the oil basically becomes a non-lubricative, abrasive, corrosive sludge, which causes all kinds of accelerated wear and other problems. So just change the dang oil regular-like and you'll be ok. The only reason the VE guys have such a hard-on over oil filters is cuz they have the VTC tick issue to deal with; and toyota filters seem to be the magic for that right now. that's all.
(chemists and SAE folks feel free to flame me now, if anything is off)

VEvolution

Well than if you ever had the luxury of observing an oil pressure gauge, have you ever taken the time out to look at it while cranking? Don't you see the needle creeping up? Don't you think theres a reason why it's doing that? It's pretty obviose.

With all do respect, why has the discussion shifted to VTC preventive maintenance and saving mine?

The original point in this discussion was about you doubting the fact that you are building oil pressure by cranking the engine. The only reason I mentioned VTC's was because they help me understand whats going on inside the engine. I've told you that you can actually see the oil pressure build on the gauge while cranking. And yes, after an oil change, it is very preventive to do this, for everything inside. Just because most mechanics don't do it, doesn't mean it's good. They just don't care.

When you drain your old oil out, everything inside is drained and dry including the most important things like the oil pump, pickup tube, and oil gallies. When you fill the engine with fresh oil, your going to have unwanted air pockets all around and the oil pump is empty. When you crank the engine a few times, the pump sucks the oil up and distributes it to where you need it, at the same time getting rid of the excess air, before you decide to start up, and bringing the oil pressure up as well. This procedure is called "oil pump prime" I believe, and is often done after major engine work. Now of course cranking it a few times is also going to be dry, Im not saying it won't, but it's nothing compared to how dry it will be when you let er rip at 1000rpm+ on a dry un-primed engine with air pockets in place of oil.

For some, being okay just doesn't cut it, which is why we always try to improve on the standards of OEMs.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

enthusiast = OCD

Phoenix

Agreed... But I just put a Toyota filter on my car and no ticking!

VEvolution

Sounds good.. So how much did it run ya? I wanna see if this filter can be a good enough permanent replacement for the tiny F2.

Phoenix

$5.something Probably cheaper in bulk, even.

ustfdes

iTrader: (5)

i went to O'reilly's, autozone, and napa today, and no one could find the 90915-YZZF1 or the F2, or any cross references....what make and model toyota are they for?

VEvolution

I can't help ya with that one, but you could try the D3 which this thread is actually about, which is fairly larger than the F1 and works just as good as the F2 if not better. Should fit any new V8 Toyota/Lexus.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

toyota filters are availible on teh-net, and the dealer. Go ask for a V8 filter. Fits: any Landcruiser, 00-now Tundra, 01-Now Sequoia, 03-now 4Runner, and 04-now Tacoma V6.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

I'm not knocking finding a good filter that helps the ticking, that's awesome the VE guys found the toyo filter. i'm glad they have a solution since nissan dissed them. I'm knocking going OCD-overboard on simple stuff like oil chnages. (beyond what we've covered here and running good, maybe synthetic oil.)

But if anyone hasn't taken their OCD pill today there's always the fluids forum.