sublunary

iTrader: (2)

so i wanted to know what happens when a ks goes bad. i figured it is one of two things, either it doesnt detect knock and ping and allows engine to harm itself or it tells the ecu to retard timing when there is no knocking. is that true or is it both. i am suspecting mine after testing it with a multimeter and i do feel sluggish in the low end. how bout mygreenmax94, i cant count how many posts ive seen where you suggest somebody checks there ks

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

The ecu will retard the timing if it detects the k/s is bad...

A bad k/s will usually set a code in the ecu...

sublunary

iTrader: (2)

it isn't possible for a code to be stored but the cel to not come on is it? no cel so far but the continuity test failed on the sub-harness. i want to double check though to make sure i had the range set right on the multimeter. so the ecu will retard timing unless a working ks tells it not too? i guess thats why some bypass ks instead of fixing it(no worries everybody im not going to bypass )

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Yes it is possible the ecu stored the code without setting the light off...My ecu set a k/s code and i never seen a light.[it may be possible the cel did come on for a short period of time and you didn't notice it.]

I have been bypassed for 3yrs./80,000 miles without any issues yet... I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE RESISTOR BYPASS!!!
I always use 93 octane gas and have been lucky...So far

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

My bad KS did not throw a code, but when my engine would get hot, like on an hour or more drive on the freeway or in traffic, the thing would be sluggish as hell.

In past discussions, this has been a pretty common theme. I think the same is true with the 4th gens.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

yup, and the 4th gen uses the same sensor in the same location.
I had mine bypassed on my old max and ran 93 octane all the time.
this max, it's still connected so I can run 87 (gotta save my 20+ cents a gallon with these fuel prices, it's like getting getting better MPG)

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

I thought the 4th gen was easier to get to? (not sure because I haven't worked on one).

The VE KS is a PITA to replace.

if your car is in a good state of tune, you should be able to get good enough mpg to run premium.

I get between 28-31 on the freeway.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

It's all that granny shifting..

sublunary

iTrader: (2)

i do put premium in but if the ks is bad than my timing is getting retarded. i would like to bypass just temporarily to see the difference with it fixed if it is indeed bad. im not afraid to replace it,it will give me a chance to take apart the mainifold since i haven't done it before. anyone want to pm me about bypassing it?

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

the sensor is the same, the difference is that the VQ got a gap to access the KS that we didn't get .

my car is in a good state of tune, but chicago is becoming a city of stoplights, stop signs, and speed bumps. so gas mileage will suck in any car.

sublunary

iTrader: (2)

i checked codes and ks is bad. i am having an issue with stalling after coming out of gear. the rpms drop down close to 0 before coming back up to normal idle and sometimes it stalls out. the idle isn't really steady either. i am wondering if its related to the ks? there is also a put put sound at the tailpipe. unrelated?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Stalling+put put sound= Injectors..

A bad k/s will only retard timing when you accelarate.[approx. between 1000-3500rpm, then the ecu ignores the k/s]

sublunary

iTrader: (2)

well i was wondering about the injectors. i had checked the front three but didn't know how to check the back three. in the fsm there was something about taking off the camshaft postion sensor and manually turning it and listening for sounds from the injectors. ever tried that? ive never seen anyone suggest that on here before.

Duckman540i

iTrader: (12)

My KS is definentely bad, All my bottom end power is gone, right up untill I hit exactly 3600RPM. As soon as it hits, it almost feels like Turbo-Lag, Then BOOM! Power.

92 Max

In the factory service manual it shows where the connector is for the rear 3 injectors. It's attached to the electrical brace that supports the power valve hose, in front of the passenger side coil tower. The FSM has the resistance each should have and the pin connections. I believe this is in the back of the emissions section.

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

Hmm, it all seems clear now. I need Knock sensor! Brian price please


yes I know you have a website but its just sooo much work to go check

sublunary

iTrader: (2)

they aren't cheap or easy to get to, its no wonder some people bypass them. his are $125 i think and i would assume because they are so sensitive that they must be packaged for shipping carefully.

sublunary

iTrader: (2)

http://www.4dsc.com/articles/drivetr...k_sensor.shtml
here's a ks faq and replacement write-up

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

John (colombianmax) has a GXE so his is behind his rear exhaust manifold.

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

Would having it behind the rear exhaust manifold make it easier to change than where you VE guys have it? if so then

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

yes, it is easier. but not as effective.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

The k/s location is on the ve is in the best place to do it's job..Detonation noise comes from the cylinder heads,the ve's k/s is right in between the 2 heads on the top of the engine where the detonation[spark knock] sound is heard the loudest...

KEhrhardt

Replace the KS with a 470K ohm 1/4 watt resistor at the KS connector and be done with it. If you run standard timing, premium fuel and you don't beat the crap out of your ride, you shouldn't have problems. Now I'm sure we will hear about the dangers of detonation from someone. That is a choice you will have to make. FWIW, I have been running with a bypassed KS for over 2 yrs now with no issues and I drive mine pretty aggressively. As these cars get older you will find more places for your $$$ to go. My .02. Good Luck.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Ibmatt.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

are you willing to pay for the replacement motor when it detonates because he had to put in regular?

it's awfully risky.

the resistor is to be used as a diagnostic tool only, not as a regular use item.
there obviously are those that do or have

sublunary

iTrader: (2)

people have to take responsability for there own cars and he gave fair warning. i was interested to know how for diagnostic purposes before i checked codes and confirmed it was bad but don't worry, im sure you will be hearing from me before long wanting to buy a ks and gaskets ect.

KEhrhardt

If you can't live with the consequences of jumping out the KS, then don't do it. I gave an alternative to the IMHO expensive KS and the labor of repairing it for a 10+ year old vehicle and my personal experience of 2+ years using the resistor. With a warning regarding the risk as well. How many VE30DE engines have failed due to detonation? Not many I bet. The ignition timing settings from the factory are pretty conservative. If you are in detonation, you got some serious problems to start with or you are seriously stressing out your ride. Will the KS protect you if this occurs? Probably, by retarding engine timing until the real problem is found. More likely than not however, with the age of these cars, the it's the electronics that fail, in this case the KS. Do as you wish, but as with anything there are always alternatives.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

most people have no clue detonation is occuring in their motor until long after other damage has been done.
The VE tends to build up carbon (at least where I live it does) which increases the compression ratio even more.
Another thing is that most people have no clue if their KS is good or bad.
by the time most of the people on this forum bought their VE the sensor was already dead (I don't give them more than a 5 year life span for city driving)