a little control arm question
08-28-2006, 07:33 AM
#1
a little control arm question
of those who have bought the arms from me has anyone had a problem with the little bushing being installed on an angle?
I've got a guy claiming that both arms he bought from me have the bushing installed on an angle.
It's the first I've ever heard of this problem and I'm guessing tthe problem is in the car not the arm, but any ideas are more than welcome. I'm all ears
I've got a guy claiming that both arms he bought from me have the bushing installed on an angle.
It's the first I've ever heard of this problem and I'm guessing tthe problem is in the car not the arm, but any ideas are more than welcome. I'm all ears
08-28-2006, 08:47 PM
#3
are we talking about the bushing that sits in the gusset? i had no problem with the two i got from you (well other than not checking the ball joint nuts
) they went right on. i think the bushing that goes in the gusset had to be twisted on one of them but thats nothing
) they went right on. i think the bushing that goes in the gusset had to be twisted on one of them but thats nothing
08-28-2006, 09:14 PM
#4
I think the rear bushings are just pushed on at the manufacturer. They come in different positions. It is no big deal, they just need to be turned. I used channel locks and a firm grip.
08-29-2006, 07:05 AM
#6
I know about the big bushing, I think they do it so they can use the same metal arm for both sides.
I just don't know what to tell the guy.
maybe I'll send him another set if he pays for them and then I'll refund him once I recieve the "defects" back and have confirmed they are defective.
does that sound fair enough?
I just don't know what to tell the guy.
maybe I'll send him another set if he pays for them and then I'll refund him once I recieve the "defects" back and have confirmed they are defective.
does that sound fair enough?
08-29-2006, 08:09 AM
#9
Originally Posted by Josh
No pictures of said bushings?
I keep forgetting to host them
Originally Posted by lophix
What about having him mail them back to you and once they you get them send a new set out to him....if they ARE defective, refund his shipping?
08-29-2006, 09:15 AM
#10
Originally Posted by internetautomar
maybe I'll send him another set if he pays for them and then I'll refund him once I recieve the "defects" back and have confirmed they are defective.
does that sound fair enough?
08-29-2006, 10:22 AM
#12
dude, if you are even thinking about being fair to a customer, then yes you are being fair enough.
BTW could you provide a bit more details on your website about the products, maybe some pics? Kinda like a customer confidence check before we press the send payment button.
BTW could you provide a bit more details on your website about the products, maybe some pics? Kinda like a customer confidence check before we press the send payment button.
08-29-2006, 11:03 AM
#13
did he have a hard time installing it and thats why he said it was defective or is he comparing it to the old one? maybe the stud on the frame of his car was bent and it wont line up right. i guess if neither arm is fitting than that lends credability to what he is saying.
08-29-2006, 12:13 PM
#14
I just got mine today. Looks like they're just like that other guys. The part circled red, is this what the guy is saying is a problem?
If so, you guys say these can just be twisted (with some strength) to 'face' the proper way and not damage the bushing?
If so, you guys say these can just be twisted (with some strength) to 'face' the proper way and not damage the bushing?
08-29-2006, 12:55 PM
#15
Originally Posted by James92SE
I just got mine today. Looks like they're just like that other guys. The part circled red, is this what the guy is saying is a problem?
If so, you guys say these can just be twisted (with some strength) to 'face' the proper way and not damage the bushing?
If so, you guys say these can just be twisted (with some strength) to 'face' the proper way and not damage the bushing?
he claims the other bushing is on an angle
08-29-2006, 12:56 PM
#16
Originally Posted by 89blackse
BTW could you provide a bit more details on your website about the products, maybe some pics? Kinda like a customer confidence check before we press the send payment button.
08-29-2006, 01:01 PM
#17
Sounds like you have a lot on your plate, I do a lot of hard coded HTML + CSS webpages, so let me know if there is anything I can do to help you out. Hell even if its organizing pictures. I have a lot of time at work....
08-29-2006, 01:02 PM
#18
Originally Posted by internetautomar
that bushing isn't the guy's problem, that as everybody said, is just a simple twist and it's the right direction.
he claims the other bushing is on an angle
he claims the other bushing is on an angle
How could that be on an angle?
yeah i cant see how thats possible
08-29-2006, 05:35 PM
#22
recent e-mail
any more thoughts?
I was thinking that his drive to firestoners with the bolts not tight may have damaged something but I dunno, it's just a theory
Originally Posted by customer
I took them out prior to installing, laid them on top of the old ones
and determined they were the correct ones except for the rear strut
bushing had to be rotated so it would fit up against the underside of
the car with the clamp bolted down. Thinking back, I DID notice the
centerline of the main front bushing housing just a little bit "off"
from the centerline of the old arm, but I figured that it would "settle
in" after everything seated and got some weight on it. So I installed
both arms and they seemed to pivot up and down normally. While test
driving, I would hear a pop and Firestone, who did the alignment, said I
needed a new back motor mount which they installed. I told Firestone
about tightening the front bolts with weight on the car and they did
that while on the alignment rack.
Things didn't seem entirely correct- the steering was a little stiff
while making turns and I was still hearing a very slight pop when going
over small bumps. I got under the car and looked at the front bushings
and realized they both were off-center. The left bushing was showing a
tear in the rubber which is consistent with being off center and having
a concentrated load on the wall of bushing while carry the car's weight
through bumps and road swells.
These arms looked IDENTICAL to the old oem's and seemed to be of good
quality except for the rear bushing that was not rotated correctly.
Other than that, I figured they would do the job.
and determined they were the correct ones except for the rear strut
bushing had to be rotated so it would fit up against the underside of
the car with the clamp bolted down. Thinking back, I DID notice the
centerline of the main front bushing housing just a little bit "off"
from the centerline of the old arm, but I figured that it would "settle
in" after everything seated and got some weight on it. So I installed
both arms and they seemed to pivot up and down normally. While test
driving, I would hear a pop and Firestone, who did the alignment, said I
needed a new back motor mount which they installed. I told Firestone
about tightening the front bolts with weight on the car and they did
that while on the alignment rack.
Things didn't seem entirely correct- the steering was a little stiff
while making turns and I was still hearing a very slight pop when going
over small bumps. I got under the car and looked at the front bushings
and realized they both were off-center. The left bushing was showing a
tear in the rubber which is consistent with being off center and having
a concentrated load on the wall of bushing while carry the car's weight
through bumps and road swells.
These arms looked IDENTICAL to the old oem's and seemed to be of good
quality except for the rear bushing that was not rotated correctly.
Other than that, I figured they would do the job.
I was thinking that his drive to firestoners with the bolts not tight may have damaged something but I dunno, it's just a theory
08-29-2006, 05:46 PM
#23
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 10
Tell him to loosen the 2 bolts holding the "stud" that goes thru the control arm bushing. There is probably enough play in the bolt holes to cause the stud to self align after they are loosened. take a look at picture #2 and it should be obvious which bolts to loosen.
If that doesn't fix his problem then the only other possibility is a bushing with the bore not centered in the rubber.
If that doesn't fix his problem then the only other possibility is a bushing with the bore not centered in the rubber.
08-29-2006, 06:21 PM
#24
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 181
?
On my 89gxe the spot where the two bolts connect the control arm to the frame had a crack down it when i inspected it. The acutal frame was cracked. I heard a poping noise also. I have no idea how it happened either, it had alot of miles on it though 300k + this could cause it to be unaligned?
08-29-2006, 06:47 PM
#25
add -in:
quote- I have installed both Maxima control arms and have discovered after
driving around the neighborhood that these arms do not match the
geometry of my 1990 Maxima GXE. They have caused some peculiar steering
and suspension characteristics. Please see the attached .pdf drawing
that illustrates the problem and the attached photos that show how the
mounting stud and nut are not centered with the bushing housing on the
new arms. Remember, the main mounting stud that the arms pivot on are
factory set with huge bolts and are welded to the body, so I'm sure it's
not something weird with my car. Also see the attached photo that shows
that I correctly mounted the rear link bushing up against the body of
the car.
he actually said that in his first email.
second e-mail
The nuts were tightened after the car came off the jack, just like it
says in my Nissan shop manual. The bushing fitting shows to be
off-center with the car in the air or on the ground.
I have a bad feeling this won't end well
quote- I have installed both Maxima control arms and have discovered after
driving around the neighborhood that these arms do not match the
geometry of my 1990 Maxima GXE. They have caused some peculiar steering
and suspension characteristics. Please see the attached .pdf drawing
that illustrates the problem and the attached photos that show how the
mounting stud and nut are not centered with the bushing housing on the
new arms. Remember, the main mounting stud that the arms pivot on are
factory set with huge bolts and are welded to the body, so I'm sure it's
not something weird with my car. Also see the attached photo that shows
that I correctly mounted the rear link bushing up against the body of
the car.
he actually said that in his first email.
second e-mail
The nuts were tightened after the car came off the jack, just like it
says in my Nissan shop manual. The bushing fitting shows to be
off-center with the car in the air or on the ground.
I have a bad feeling this won't end well
08-29-2006, 07:37 PM
#27
well to me it looks like the shaft that the control arm goes on is bent. The thing is this...the bushing is rubber and it will move to where the steel shaft is so IMO the shaft is bent causing a normally straight bushing to be forced to flex incorrectly. I just dont see the bushing being bad but it could very well be a defective bushing but that should have been obvious from the start.
Its just so hard to tell without seeing how the bushings were before he installed them.
Its just so hard to tell without seeing how the bushings were before he installed them.
08-30-2006, 06:45 AM
#28
Originally Posted by Michael
well to me it looks like the shaft that the control arm goes on is bent. The thing is this...the bushing is rubber and it will move to where the steel shaft is so IMO the shaft is bent causing a normally straight bushing to be forced to flex incorrectly. I just dont see the bushing being bad but it could very well be a defective bushing but that should have been obvious from the start.
Its just so hard to tell without seeing how the bushings were before he installed them.
Its just so hard to tell without seeing how the bushings were before he installed them.
I'll post up his reply later tonight when I get home.
08-31-2006, 06:59 AM
#29
newest 2 emails
I got underneath and loosened the 5- 21mm bolts that hold the left side
(driver) pivot stud assembly to the underside of the car. I got it to
shift maybe 1mm after banging on it w/ a big rubber hammer. I didn't
try the right side. I don't think I'll be able to make the assembly
shift enough to get the centerlines to self-align. We're talking maybe
a 3/4" shift at the rear-most bolt and I just don't think it has enough
play to shift that far. Please let me know of any other info you get
from your discussion groupees.
Thanks,
Brian,
I don't think I can make it shift enough to align the centers of the
bushing and the mounting stud. The frame that the stud is attache to is
attached to the body w/ 5 22mm bolts and they won't allow enough play to
align.
Any thoughts from your resources?
anyone have any other ideas?
I got underneath and loosened the 5- 21mm bolts that hold the left side
(driver) pivot stud assembly to the underside of the car. I got it to
shift maybe 1mm after banging on it w/ a big rubber hammer. I didn't
try the right side. I don't think I'll be able to make the assembly
shift enough to get the centerlines to self-align. We're talking maybe
a 3/4" shift at the rear-most bolt and I just don't think it has enough
play to shift that far. Please let me know of any other info you get
from your discussion groupees.
Thanks,
Brian,
I don't think I can make it shift enough to align the centers of the
bushing and the mounting stud. The frame that the stud is attache to is
attached to the body w/ 5 22mm bolts and they won't allow enough play to
align.
Any thoughts from your resources?
anyone have any other ideas?
09-01-2006, 06:37 PM
#30
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 10
"I got underneath and loosened the 5- 21mm bolts that hold the left side
(driver) pivot stud assembly to the underside of the car. I got it to
shift maybe 1mm after banging on it w/ a big rubber hammer."
Was the weight of the car on the control arm when he hit it or was it up in the air. If it's loaded on the ground it sure won't move that much.
If it was on the ground try it again with the weight of the vehicle off it. Of course it will need to be re-aligned if it does shift enough.
I'm doing my front end tomorrow. I'll see if I can figure out anything else then.
(driver) pivot stud assembly to the underside of the car. I got it to
shift maybe 1mm after banging on it w/ a big rubber hammer."
Was the weight of the car on the control arm when he hit it or was it up in the air. If it's loaded on the ground it sure won't move that much.
If it was on the ground try it again with the weight of the vehicle off it. Of course it will need to be re-aligned if it does shift enough.
I'm doing my front end tomorrow. I'll see if I can figure out anything else then.
09-02-2006, 06:45 AM
#31
Either his frame is bent, or the control arm you sent him is bent...
Easy way to tell is to remove the control arm from the car and lay it on the ground. look at the angle of the steel sleeve/front bushing in relation to a stock or the other new arm.. It looks o me like the arm was slightly bent while pressing in the front bushing. I've seen that several times in my years of pressing in these bushings, as they take a LOT of force to get in there. I've bent probably 8 or 10 of them so far. only thing you can do is throw them away and start over.
It's either that or his particular car has some major frame damage. either way wouldn't really surprise me. It's not unheard of to actually have a defective part straight out of the box.
My suggestion is to just ship the guy a new control arm and see if that fixes it. If not, then the customer gets stuck with two sets, including shipping. it's his car that's bent and not the control arm.
as for the "noticeable steering geometry changes" with those control arms, it's very possible that's simply due to a major alignment change- which can happen after replacing 15 yr old bushings with new. it's also possible the new arm is actually bent and throwing things off. either way can cause a noticeable change in static camber, caster, and toe on the car.. as well as REALLY throwing things off when the car is in motion.
Easy way to tell is to remove the control arm from the car and lay it on the ground. look at the angle of the steel sleeve/front bushing in relation to a stock or the other new arm.. It looks o me like the arm was slightly bent while pressing in the front bushing. I've seen that several times in my years of pressing in these bushings, as they take a LOT of force to get in there. I've bent probably 8 or 10 of them so far. only thing you can do is throw them away and start over.
It's either that or his particular car has some major frame damage. either way wouldn't really surprise me. It's not unheard of to actually have a defective part straight out of the box.
My suggestion is to just ship the guy a new control arm and see if that fixes it. If not, then the customer gets stuck with two sets, including shipping. it's his car that's bent and not the control arm.
as for the "noticeable steering geometry changes" with those control arms, it's very possible that's simply due to a major alignment change- which can happen after replacing 15 yr old bushings with new. it's also possible the new arm is actually bent and throwing things off. either way can cause a noticeable change in static camber, caster, and toe on the car.. as well as REALLY throwing things off when the car is in motion.
09-02-2006, 07:53 AM
#32
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Miami, FL. / Indianapolis, IN.
Posts: 2,614
i never thought about sayin' this as well but i also hear the popin' in my car but mainly from the driver side. when i installed the new arms i ordered from Brian, i noticed that the driver side arm went in with a little force and little did i know that the stud that goes through the front bushin' is a little off center as well. i think thats whats causin' my popin' sound. of course im not gonna b!tch about it but when i have a chance i'll just get a new one and replace it. im gonna order new arms again to have them as spares just in case. but my arms r just fine no problems what so ever along with all the parts that i've ordered from Brian. but i hope its just that bent stud that could be causin' the popin' sound. what do u think Matt?
09-02-2006, 06:34 PM
#34
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Either his frame is bent, or the control arm you sent him is bent...
Easy way to tell is to remove the control arm from the car and lay it on the ground. look at the angle of the steel sleeve/front bushing in relation to a stock or the other new arm.. It looks o me like the arm was slightly bent while pressing in the front bushing. I've seen that several times in my years of pressing in these bushings, as they take a LOT of force to get in there. I've bent probably 8 or 10 of them so far. only thing you can do is throw them away and start over.
It's either that or his particular car has some major frame damage. either way wouldn't really surprise me. It's not unheard of to actually have a defective part straight out of the box.
My suggestion is to just ship the guy a new control arm and see if that fixes it. If not, then the customer gets stuck with two sets, including shipping. it's his car that's bent and not the control arm.
as for the "noticeable steering geometry changes" with those control arms, it's very possible that's simply due to a major alignment change- which can happen after replacing 15 yr old bushings with new. it's also possible the new arm is actually bent and throwing things off. either way can cause a noticeable change in static camber, caster, and toe on the car.. as well as REALLY throwing things off when the car is in motion.
Easy way to tell is to remove the control arm from the car and lay it on the ground. look at the angle of the steel sleeve/front bushing in relation to a stock or the other new arm.. It looks o me like the arm was slightly bent while pressing in the front bushing. I've seen that several times in my years of pressing in these bushings, as they take a LOT of force to get in there. I've bent probably 8 or 10 of them so far. only thing you can do is throw them away and start over.
It's either that or his particular car has some major frame damage. either way wouldn't really surprise me. It's not unheard of to actually have a defective part straight out of the box.
My suggestion is to just ship the guy a new control arm and see if that fixes it. If not, then the customer gets stuck with two sets, including shipping. it's his car that's bent and not the control arm.
as for the "noticeable steering geometry changes" with those control arms, it's very possible that's simply due to a major alignment change- which can happen after replacing 15 yr old bushings with new. it's also possible the new arm is actually bent and throwing things off. either way can cause a noticeable change in static camber, caster, and toe on the car.. as well as REALLY throwing things off when the car is in motion.
09-04-2006, 06:25 PM
#35
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 10
Okay I spent 6 hours on Saturday changing Struts, halfshafts, lower balljoints, and both control arm bushings on both sides in my garage at home without a lift. Sometimes I wonder why I ever learned to be a mechanic. First recomendation to anyone attempting this___GET THE NEW CONTRL ARMS WITH BOTH BUSHINGS INSTALLED AND NEW BALL JOINTS. It is not worth the savings to do it yourself. What a pain in the ***. But it's done and the rear struts today were much easier.
After looking at everything underneath the car I cannot figure out why this guy cannot get the bushng to line up. I would assume something is incorrect in the replacement arm and send him another one. It wouldn't be the first time I saw a "new" part that was bad. If the second arm does the same then something in the car is probably bent. Then you're off the hook
Either way good luck.
After looking at everything underneath the car I cannot figure out why this guy cannot get the bushng to line up. I would assume something is incorrect in the replacement arm and send him another one. It wouldn't be the first time I saw a "new" part that was bad. If the second arm does the same then something in the car is probably bent. Then you're off the hook
Either way good luck.
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