6 cylinders vs 4 cylinders
11-02-2006, 03:37 AM
#5
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Georgetown, Ky
Posts: 66
Generally, smoothness of power. If you limit all other options.
In a 4-stroke engine, power stroke is only 1/2 of revelouation of the 2 revelouvation that make a 4 stroke cycle.
With a 4 cylinder engine, each cylinder is 1/4 out of phase from the other, so the power strokes do not over lap. With a 6 cylinder, they are 1/6 out of phase, so the power stroke over laps some. With a 8 cylinders, they are 1/8 out of phase, so you have 2 cylinders always in some part a power stroke. and so on.
In a 4-stroke engine, power stroke is only 1/2 of revelouation of the 2 revelouvation that make a 4 stroke cycle.
With a 4 cylinder engine, each cylinder is 1/4 out of phase from the other, so the power strokes do not over lap. With a 6 cylinder, they are 1/6 out of phase, so the power stroke over laps some. With a 8 cylinders, they are 1/8 out of phase, so you have 2 cylinders always in some part a power stroke. and so on.
11-02-2006, 04:52 AM
#6
Originally Posted by jackb_guppy
Generally, smoothness of power. If you limit all other options.
In a 4-stroke engine, power stroke is only 1/2 of revelouation of the 2 revelouvation that make a 4 stroke cycle.
With a 4 cylinder engine, each cylinder is 1/4 out of phase from the other, so the power strokes do not over lap. With a 6 cylinder, they are 1/6 out of phase, so the power stroke over laps some. With a 8 cylinders, they are 1/8 out of phase, so you have 2 cylinders always in some part a power stroke. and so on.
In a 4-stroke engine, power stroke is only 1/2 of revelouation of the 2 revelouvation that make a 4 stroke cycle.
With a 4 cylinder engine, each cylinder is 1/4 out of phase from the other, so the power strokes do not over lap. With a 6 cylinder, they are 1/6 out of phase, so the power stroke over laps some. With a 8 cylinders, they are 1/8 out of phase, so you have 2 cylinders always in some part a power stroke. and so on.
11-02-2006, 05:10 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 627
When you have an engine with more cylinders, you will have more friction given an engine of the same size, simply as you have more parts.
However, that one thing I will note is that between a V6 and Inline-6, the V6 will likely be more fuel efficient. V6 engines have 4 main bearings whereas an inline-6 will have 7 main bearings.
Also, as inline-6 engines are typically installed in RWD cars, you will have greater driveline loss as you have much more drivetrain parts and mass to turn.
However, that one thing I will note is that between a V6 and Inline-6, the V6 will likely be more fuel efficient. V6 engines have 4 main bearings whereas an inline-6 will have 7 main bearings.
Also, as inline-6 engines are typically installed in RWD cars, you will have greater driveline loss as you have much more drivetrain parts and mass to turn.
11-02-2006, 06:00 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Dhunterx
One thing I always thought was cool about inline six motors, is that they don't need any sort of harmonic balancer.
11-02-2006, 06:18 AM
#11
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
The maxima engines really do not need one...Many members on here run a lightweight aftermarket underdrive pulley without a harmonic balancer.....
11-02-2006, 08:46 AM
#14
Originally Posted by Dhunterx
lol, I read that thread he started. YOU LOST BECAUSE YOU'RE CAR IS OLD, THE CAMRY IS LIGHTER, AND HAS NEWER TECHNOLOGY. /endcap 
The 4cylinder 2.2l model has only 132hp...
Some models had the 200hp 3.0 liter dohc v6 ..Which is most likely what "b!tch slapped" him...
. didnt think it would spark so much flames...
11-02-2006, 10:08 AM
#17
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
The maxima engines really do not need one...Many members on here run a lightweight aftermarket underdrive pulley without a harmonic balancer.....
Maximas
Do
NOT
Have
Harmonic
Balancers.
That little rubber ring on the OEM crank pulley (that isn't there with aftermarket pulleys) is a vibration damper. It's only there to absorb vibration from the alternator, AC compressor, power steering pump, and belt tensioner.
11-02-2006, 10:21 AM
#18
To the OP...
A cylinder is where fuel is mixed with air and ignited by a spark plug to create an explosion that pushes a piston down to turn the engine.
An engine with more cylinders can be more powerful because there are more places to burn fuel, and smoother because of a lot more stuff that is more complicated to explain. It can also be bigger, heavier, and less efficient because it has more moving parts, which can mean more internal friction and more mass.
So, all else equal, a 6-cylinder engine will be bigger, heavier, smoother, more powerful, and less efficient than a 4-cylinder.
Of course, there is a LOT more to it -- total internal volume of the cylinders, the length vs. the diameter of the combustion chambers, what the parts are made of, etc. etc... but that's the jist of it.
A cylinder is where fuel is mixed with air and ignited by a spark plug to create an explosion that pushes a piston down to turn the engine.
An engine with more cylinders can be more powerful because there are more places to burn fuel, and smoother because of a lot more stuff that is more complicated to explain. It can also be bigger, heavier, and less efficient because it has more moving parts, which can mean more internal friction and more mass.
So, all else equal, a 6-cylinder engine will be bigger, heavier, smoother, more powerful, and less efficient than a 4-cylinder.
Of course, there is a LOT more to it -- total internal volume of the cylinders, the length vs. the diameter of the combustion chambers, what the parts are made of, etc. etc... but that's the jist of it.
11-02-2006, 12:44 PM
#19
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Maximas
Do
NOT
Have
Harmonic Balancers.
Do
NOT
Have
Harmonic Balancers.
It purpose is to reduce/eliminate vibrations from an unbalanced crankshaft/engine,right?
So what is a vibration dampener?
It
Is
the
Same
Thing!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
11-02-2006, 01:05 PM
#20
Harmonic (or vibration) dampeners really are only necessary at RPM's > 6000. Below that any vibration will not be enough to be damaging. That is why most of us get away with using UDP's and no balancer. When racing high RPM engines that routinely get spun at 8000+ it is always a good idea to run a dampener.
11-02-2006, 01:28 PM
#21
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
What is the purpose of a hamonic balancer?
It purpose is to reduce/eliminate vibrations from an unbalanced crankshaft/engine,right?
It purpose is to reduce/eliminate vibrations from an unbalanced crankshaft/engine,right?
The crank pulley on a Maxima functions only to damp vibration from the accessories. It has nothing to do with evening out the motion of the crankshaft because the engine is internally balanced and does not need the help.
So, no, it's not the same thing. A harmonic balancer is also a vibration damper, but a vibration damper is not necessarily a harmonic balancer.
11-02-2006, 02:19 PM
#22
Originally Posted by d00df00d
So, no, it's not the same thing. A harmonic balancer is also a vibration damper, but a vibration damper is not necessarily a harmonic balancer.
11-02-2006, 04:21 PM
#24
Originally Posted by d00df00d
To the OP...
A cylinder is where fuel is mixed with air and ignited by a spark plug to create an explosion that pushes a piston down to turn the engine.
An engine with more cylinders can be more powerful because there are more places to burn fuel, and smoother because of a lot more stuff that is more complicated to explain. It can also be bigger, heavier, and less efficient because it has more moving parts, which can mean more internal friction and more mass.
So, all else equal, a 6-cylinder engine will be bigger, heavier, smoother, more powerful, and less efficient than a 4-cylinder.
Of course, there is a LOT more to it -- total internal volume of the cylinders, the length vs. the diameter of the combustion chambers, what the parts are made of, etc. etc... but that's the jist of it.
A cylinder is where fuel is mixed with air and ignited by a spark plug to create an explosion that pushes a piston down to turn the engine.
An engine with more cylinders can be more powerful because there are more places to burn fuel, and smoother because of a lot more stuff that is more complicated to explain. It can also be bigger, heavier, and less efficient because it has more moving parts, which can mean more internal friction and more mass.
So, all else equal, a 6-cylinder engine will be bigger, heavier, smoother, more powerful, and less efficient than a 4-cylinder.
Of course, there is a LOT more to it -- total internal volume of the cylinders, the length vs. the diameter of the combustion chambers, what the parts are made of, etc. etc... but that's the jist of it.
u da man!!! i really appreciate your post bro
11-02-2006, 06:32 PM
#25
The way I see it is that more cylinders = more smoothness.
My dads V12 Jaguar... couldn't even feel it running from what I remember.
My mothers V8 Q45... almost can't feel it running.
My Maxima... Decently smooth, but no where near a VQ (could be due to age/lack of tuneup, or maybe the VG is just a little bit rough in general)
My sisters 4 cylinder Accord... A rolling vibrator. I could never drive it.
My friends 2007 Civic... just about as smooth as a 4 cylinder can get, but I was disappointed that I could still feel the vibration throughout the car(very little, but still there)... But I guess you can't escape that from a 4 banger.
My dads V12 Jaguar... couldn't even feel it running from what I remember.
My mothers V8 Q45... almost can't feel it running.
My Maxima... Decently smooth, but no where near a VQ (could be due to age/lack of tuneup, or maybe the VG is just a little bit rough in general)
My sisters 4 cylinder Accord... A rolling vibrator. I could never drive it.
My friends 2007 Civic... just about as smooth as a 4 cylinder can get, but I was disappointed that I could still feel the vibration throughout the car(very little, but still there)... But I guess you can't escape that from a 4 banger.
??? I think the noobs need to do some more homework.
11-02-2006, 07:12 PM
#28
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
What is the purpose of a hamonic balancer?
It purpose is to reduce/eliminate vibrations from an unbalanced crankshaft/engine,right?
So what is a vibration dampener?
It
Is
the
Same
Thing!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
It purpose is to reduce/eliminate vibrations from an unbalanced crankshaft/engine,right?
So what is a vibration dampener?
It
Is
the
Same
Thing!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
11-02-2006, 07:29 PM
#30
Originally Posted by nismology
Maximas have internally balanced engines. That's what the big-**** counterweights on the crank are for. Or have you not seen one for yourself yet?
So i will just quote it for now....
11-02-2006, 07:32 PM
#31
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
I am too tired to respond to this post.
So i will just quote it for now....
So i will just quote it for now....
11-02-2006, 07:56 PM
#32
Originally Posted by nismology
Maximas have internally balanced engines. That's what the big-**** counterweights on the crank are for. Or have you not seen one for yourself yet?
11-02-2006, 08:11 PM
#33
Originally Posted by nismology
I hope you realize that i meant that the counterweights are on the actual crankshaft, within the motor, not attaced to it outside of the motor, aka crank pulley.
Yes,realized that...I don't give a crap what any of you guys say about the harmonic balancer/crankshaft dampener thing....IMO nissan put it on there to help balance the engine,[not that these engines need much help in this area,they are well balanced without it imo] not to reduce vibrations from accessories as doodfood says it is for...Rubber accessory belts do a fine job of reducing vibrations from accessories...Many members have used underdrive pulleys on these cars with no vibration issues...
I stand by this unless someone can give me proof Via links to websites/experts on the subject...
11-02-2006, 08:52 PM
#34
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
Yes,realized that...I don't give a crap what any of you guys say about the harmonic balancer/crankshaft dampener thing....IMO nissan put it on there to help balance the engine,[not that these engines need much help in this area,they are well balanced without it imo] not to reduce vibrations from accessories as doodfood says it is for...Rubber accessory belts do a fine job of reducing vibrations from accessories...Many members have used underdrive pulleys on these cars with no vibration issues...
I stand by this unless someone can give me proof Via links to websites/experts on the subject...
I stand by this unless someone can give me proof Via links to websites/experts on the subject...
Also, a harmonic damper looks much different than our OEM crank pullies if you've ever seen one...
11-02-2006, 09:02 PM
#35
I guess to sum it up, it's there to reduce NVH, not to save the crank from catasrophic failure due to crazy vibration/imbalance. Either way, it's not absolutely necessary like a true harmonic damper would be.
Removing OEM pulley = slightly more vibration...negligible if any
Removing harmonic damper = mechanical suicide
Removing OEM pulley = slightly more vibration...negligible if any
Removing harmonic damper = mechanical suicide
11-02-2006, 09:37 PM
#36
Originally Posted by Grace_Imports
What engine does not have big **** counterweights on the crankshaft? Just because counterweights are present does not make that engine balanced.
11-02-2006, 10:25 PM
#37
Originally Posted by nismology
Thanks.
Also, a harmonic damper looks much different than our OEM crank pullies if you've ever seen one...
Also, a harmonic damper looks much different than our OEM crank pullies if you've ever seen one...
Our pulley has rubber dampenening material in between the outer and inner parts of the pulley..This is just a different way of accomplishing the same goal as the other type of vibration damper..
The automotive industry makes little if no difference in the two dampers functions...The only difference is their design..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/1.../14037_106.htm
Originally Posted by quoted from above site
The power impulses of an engine result in torsional vibration in the crankshaft. A vibration damper mounted on the front of the crankshaft controls this vibration (fig. 12-21). If this torsional vibration were not controlled, the crankshaft might actually break at certain speeds. Most types of vibration dampers resemble a miniature clutch. A friction facing is mounted between the hub face and a small damper flywheel. The damper flywheel is mounted on the hub face with bolts that go through rubber cones in the flywheel. These cones permit limited circumferential movement between the crankshaft and damper flywheel. That reduces the effects of the torsional vibration in the crankshaft. Several other types of vibration dampers are used; however, they all operate in essentially the same way.
11-03-2006, 03:00 AM
#40
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
Wrong again...The camry weighs in at about the same as the 3rd gen +-100lbs either way....
The 4cylinder 2.2l model has only 132hp...
Some models had the 200hp 3.0 liter dohc v6 ..Which is most likely what "b!tch slapped" him...
The 4cylinder 2.2l model has only 132hp...
Some models had the 200hp 3.0 liter dohc v6 ..Which is most likely what "b!tch slapped" him...
The VE 5spd is obviously a different story as we are talking at least a 40hp difference.