Last thing i changed in my car was the fuel filter.I use to crank my car in one shot. Now i gotta crank it twice. Only when car is cold. The rest of the day its ok. Runs good.First crank is like the motor is shaking. Turn it off .2nd crank no shaking just starts. Did some searching in the org no help.I would hate to buy another fuel filter and its not it.

 

If you still have your old one,slap it back on...


If not,try putting a piece of test pipe in place of the filter for a very quick test of the starting/shaking issue..

 

Dont have the old one. Will try to get a piece of test pipe.Will have to wait till car is cold. Thanks

 

Went to a-zone Yesturday told the guy I had a defective fuel filter.LoL He changed it for me cool dude. So this morning It started in 1 long crank. Not the 2 cranks I was doing. Gonna see what happens in the morning.

Could a Cracked hose cause the long Start in the morning?
Or is this an electrical or fuel issue?

 

How long since your last tune up?

have you ever cleaned the intake system?

did you do the test i suggested?

 

About a month ago I changed plugs ,wires ,distributor, pvc valve and rotor.Gotta clean the intake.I didnt do the test . I did it with the new fuel filter. Or should I still do it the way you told me? i was starting the the MAX with 2 cranks went down to 1 long crank with new fuel filter. But will see what happens in the morning.

Also motor wasnt shaking just long crank to start.I remember I just turn that key and car would start.

 

Checked my ECU. Should of did that first. Got a 33. So could my o2 be the cause of the bad morning starts. Have some bad wire job I did. Gonna try to rewire tommorrow at lunch time.Hate rushing it but ill try.

 

did you have a check engine light?

 

Nah sometimes you dont get them. You gotta go to ecu hopefully ill give you a code.

 

nope

yup. i just randomly decided to check codes, and i got one. i need to check my wiring since i know my sensor is brand new

 

The extra cranking time was because a leak in the system, nothing more. When your car is not running, pressure is maintained in the fuel system. What you had happening was the system was leaking back down. The extra cranking time was the system building up pressure.

 

where is the pressure leaking from then? fuel lines, tank, filler neck? or could it be any of those and anything else in the fuel system?

 

gas cap is possible too

 

IMO you can use the gascap as a paperweight iso on its intended location on the filler neck and it would have exactly the same effect on the fuel system - ie - absolutely nothing.

If any fuel system "depressurization" is happening it can be :
leaky injectors
cracked broken fuel lines
funky fpr ............... but the most likely is a worn pump with worn non-return valves/seals allowing fuel to partially drain back into the tank and out of the fuel lines and the pump .................. thus when the car has been sitting long enough the pump first have to get "primed" before it can start filling the lines and building pressure. Given the fuel pump has a fixed time (by design) at startup of the engine to ensure the injectors are sitting at 40 psi, its quite conceivable that when the pump gets cut before the engine fires (by design), a second/third "start" sequence will get enough fuel to the rails to get the motor firing and the pump running continuously.

 

that may be your opinion, but it does affect fuel system pressure.
evidence of this is the fact that a loose gas cap will set off the CEL on an OBDII car.

 

Well I rewired the o2 sensor at lunch time.It cranked better when i left work. Drove home checked the ecu no more code 33. Im good. The real test is in the morning when its been sitting a good while.

 

May I ask for an explanation on the effects/mechanism for that to be happening on a 3rd gen?

a. IMO the fuel pump can supply way more than the 40 psi required on the rails (150psi+ ?)

b. The fpr is the absolute only thing determining pressure on the rails (via a simple spring and engine vacuum dependent servo) - it has no other vehicle parameters able to influence its operation (by design) - ie - if we discard the effect of engine-bay temp on the fpr that is also not a function of fuel-tank pressure.

c. The gas cap (whether there or removed) has exactly the same effect on the pump suction and fpr return line connections to the tank (that effectively forms a closed system) - ie - the same pressure is seen by both because they are located in the same tank and physical space.





I am not looking to start an argument here - just wanting to know how these things happen - thats all.

 

i', not 100% sure how it affects, but our wonderful EPA decided it meant something so we now have it tested on our emission tests and the car has a sensor to detect when it isn't sealing properly

 

The gas cap is simply a sealing device. something like 40% of automotive emissions are caused from evaporation of fuel exiting the tank.
i.e. non-sealed gas caps.

the EPA and DOT have required sealing gas caps for years. one for emissions, two for rollover protection. (they are required to be able to prevent leakage from fuel when the car is overturned as well). BUT, they will allow a vacuum on the tank. it's simply a big check valve.

The reason the OBD-II cars have sensors for them is exactly as stated above. the CEL that comes on is in no way indicative of an engine problem and the gas cap will not cause the engine to run improperly. It's simply a dummy light telling you something is wrong on the emissions side of things- just like if the EGR valve was stuck, the EGR temp sensor failed, or the rear O2 sensor has failed. none of them effect the operation of the car, just emissions.

 

We are "lucky" here that (for the moment anyway) we are not yet having to bother with those tests on an annual (or whenever) basis, so I don't really have lots of experience on the details of those tests .................... but I can see them possibly doing a pressurization/vacuum test on the tank and then depending on the amount of "leakage" detected throwing a hissyfit because of the possibility of raw evaporated fuel fumes escaping into the atmosphere - my bet is they would prefer those fumes to be redirected to and managed by the combustion/exhaust system somehow.

Anybody with more details on what the authorities are actually doing and testing for? - I just cannot see how a gas cap's presence or absence can influence the fuel pressure on a 3rd gen's fuel system ................... and even with no experience on those tests, I just cannot see them fiddling with the fuel system to the extent that they will be adding plumbing to the fuel rails and seeing how the presence of the gas cap influences that fuel pressure.


Edit
Thanks Matt - you posted while I was still typing - will leave my post up anyway.

 

I don know the gas cap has a vacuum relief valve in it. If too much vacuum is present in the tank the valve opens to let air in. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but since the charcoal canister system is to capture vapors going out only, I think this is the only way to relieve any vacuum built up in the tank, opposing the gas outflow, from gas removal by the pump.

 

Still have to crank my car twice to start. First crank hesitates about 3 seconds worth. 2nd crank fires right up like a new car. Would like it the way it was before.Tested fuel pump. Reads 1.2 Chiltons say it should read .5 So is it on its way out?
MAX runs and starts fine the rest of the day. This s@#$ annoys me.

I have an extra fuel regulator.Wanna changed that before I get a fuel pump.
I just hope its not an open injector.

 

do a fuel pressure test. cheap tester available at harbor freight. Follow the haynes manual directions. The test will tell you what part of the fuel system is possibly bad. bad cold start in the morning could also mean your battery is discharging overnight and the spark is weak ?

 

Had the battery in mind. Cause I had the car over 3 years and I dont know how old is this battery.Gonna check harbor freight for the tester unless I could get a decent one local. thanks

 

Thank you! It annoys me so much that people think just because they hear a hiss when they open the gas cap that this relives the pressure in the lines. How many people have removed the gas cap and then wondered why they still got sprayed with fuel.?

 

yeah... i pulled my fuel pump fuse, cranked it 3-5 times until it wouldn't even sputter anymore, and i still got sprayed with fuel when i was changing my fuel filter.

 

Changed the battery today.Freaking battery was going on 8 years this June wow.Will have to wait till tommorrow morning to see how it cranks.Still trying to find a decent fuel pressure tester. Them $20 ones look cheap and they look like they dont have the right adapter.

 

All you need is the "T" adapter and an extra section of fuel hose (I think it's 5/16" ID) and you just stick it in line between the filter and the fuel rail.

 

You don't have to have an actual animal labeled "fuel pressure" so don't go wasting money on it .............

If you have an oil pressure gauge, then use that - its the same thing with different silk-screening of labels only

 

Not gonna go crazy spending money.Just would like a decent one and that it works. Plus I beleive its a handy tool when it comes to these maximas. But who knows if I would need it come tommorrow. Please let it be the battery.

 

Not the battery. Gonna change my spark plugs before i change my fuel regulator. Reason I dont know why I went from ngk to denzo.But worth a try.

Still havent brought the fuel pressure tester..

Ahhh just remembered why the denzo's the guy didnt have no more ngk's

 

my idle has actually turned into crap since i went back to NGK. dunno if it's related. my idle was perfect on my bosches. i may retest the bosches and see if it gets better.

 

Well changed my plugs today. Ran good. idle great. Nuttin changed. Gotta wait till the morning to see how it starts. Will keep yah posted

 

Well still have this problem.But today I went and brought a fuel pump.So I take out the back seats.Unplug the harness.Take that plate off with the 4 screws.Right on top of the pump theres 4 wires with like plastic caps covering the wires.One was completely rotted. I touched the cap and it broke off ,the wire was all green.Changed the pump.Car started.Still gotta wait till the morning though. Will keep yah posted.

 

did you check the fuel pressure at all?


quoting capedcadaver, "yeah... i pulled my fuel pump fuse, cranked it 3-5 times until it wouldn't even sputter anymore, and i still got sprayed with fuel when i was changing my fuel filter"

recently i was changing my fuel filter and it took me like 15minutes until i said screw it and stopped tryin to crank the motor to burn the fuel. I pulled the fuse, and cranked it and cranked it...it kept starting and would run at real low rpms for about 5 secs sometimes longer. made me think that my fuel pressure is alot higher than it should be or something? so when i gave up on tryin to burn up the extra fuel in the lines with the fuse out, I just disconnected the fuel hose and got sprayed good with fuel, had to keep my thumb on the line....

 

I had a problem simular to yours. it turned out I also had a leak in a hose to the fuel filter.

 

Well it spits out like a champange bottle after it been shaken up.I think the problem was the rotted wire was not making proper contact.

 

Did my fuel pressure test. It was 34 psi at Idle. I beleive its suppose to be like 36.3 psi at idle.Did the pressure test with the fpr hose disconnected was 46 psi suppose to be 43.4.
So which is it the FPR or FUEL PUMP?

 

IMHO,i dont think your fuel pump/fpr is causing your hard start issue..the numbers your getting are just too close to spec..

I didn't read through the entire thread,but are you having this hard start issue after the car is warmed up? or just when cold?

 

Only at cold starts. mornings.Gotta crank it 2 to 3 times.The rest of the day no problem. Till the next day.