For those familiar with my manifold problems, here's one thread that is certain to get more views. I thought that I would be done right now but I have been having too much fun with my new sportbike. This enclosed view shows my crossover running to the front manifold with the turbo tacked into place and my downpipe tacked together. I am almost at the point to start assemblying pieces onto my car and claim first VE turbo status. I also reinforced the front manifold. There is a ton of stuff now that will fail long before the manifold itself. My next step is to get a flex joint for the rear bank crossover to alleviate the certain cracking.

 

tight hope it all works got that ecu ready for turbo??
Goodluck

 

ECU?? who needs ecu's?? I am just upping the fuel pressure to 60 psi at the rails under full boost. Remember this is Project Cheap Turbo, not I am Mr. Megabuxxx Turbo. I'll monitor my engine's self destruction via these cool boost and fuel press. gauges........

 

cool i was just wondering if it would run smooth there is also gonna be a change in airflow. just to let you know but you should be cool johnny and i were talkin and he says you only plan to run 5psi you should be coo.

 

"Keep Rollin,Rollin,Rollin,Rollin" I can't wait to see all of your stat's when you finish!

 

60 psi? Geez, I thought me running fuel pressure at 50 psi on my VG was scary! (due to modified ecu from JWT that is supposed to run the VG30ET. It was one of the only ways I could get my VG30E to run on the ecu.) That's a lot of GAS!

 

just out of curiousity, how much are spending on this turbo all together?

 

good luck with the project...how much boost do u think it will give u when ur done???

 

just curious, what gauge pillar are you usuing for hte gauges? and how is the fit?

 

I am using a 4th gen pillar gauge... they apparently do not make one for the 3rd gen. Here's my approx. costs to date:

$100 used T-3
$200 misc. mandrel bends, 14 ga. for exhaust routing and 18 ga. boost pipes.
$100 Gauges
$30 Eclipse BOV
$80 Flanges and SS 2 1/2" flex for down pipe
$30 Turbo flange
$100 misc. stuff clamps, big radiator hose material, etc, etc.

60 psi is only at peak boost via FPR, and hopefully the injectors can do something with the additional fuel.


I also bought specifically for this project a MIG welder for $260.

I will prob spend another $100 to get it all together + $500 if I like the setup I have and decide to get it ceramic coated or something.

This does not include any of my time of which I have spent more than this turbo is worth(esp considering that I became a sport bike convert recently)

 

Does the 4th gen gauge pillar pods actually fit (with what modifications)? I called a few places and Actron was the only place that made the 3rd gen pillar pods. They said they were done, but would not be available for 90 days! I'd rather not wait 90 days, my air/fuel guage will be here tomorrow!

 

Now all you need is some altezza's!

 

Given any thought to a possible intercooler? I looked at one for an Eclipse, looked like it might fit. Any thoughts?

 

An intercooler would be sweet!...Almost a must.

 

I did a fit check today. BTW my car is remaining in the garage until this project goes away. I gotta get this done before school starts again. Here's some pictures showing the turbo actually in my car, and I am very happy that everything appears to fit as planned, with engine mount, starter, radiator, and crossmember clearance.

As far as the intercooler, any benefit at this point would be minute, as I am only planning on running 5.5-6 psi. initially.

 

another picture, showing the fit on the bottom.

 

What type of FMU are you going to run? If your not going to use a JWT ECU, then you will need a FMU. I believe Vortech and cartech are the most popular among the honda FI crowd.

 

hey. nice going on your turbo project. keep it up!!!


Patrick

 

No FMU... I am using the stock ECU/FMU, MAS, fuel injectors. This project should not exceed the capabilities of the stock parts. If you can run a 50 shot of NOS, just having the fuel press. bumped, then even though I don't get the cooling effect of nitrous, I should be able to reasonably gain 40 hp via turbo.

 

I am sure he just wants to get used to the VE turbo first.Then when he feels the urge for more the whole world awaits.Intercooler,Ecu,Fuel Injectors,etc...I can see Czar running like 12psi in about 2 years with atleast 300hp

 

I don't think it would be economically possible to get a VE to 300 fwhp.<anything can be done just costs $$$> New rods and pistons which he's gonna need for that are gonna drive up the cost.
One thing I want to know is: Will the VTC assembalies be able to handle all the power?

Jim90gxe: the perpetual n00bie

 

I dont think the VTC's will even play a part.Most people just disable them anyway.The only thing's I would be worried about would be the clutch,injectors,MAF,.And if he is looking at gaining 40hp off of 5psi then it is very possible to get atleast 250hp with the turbo and bolt ons.300hp would be very possible.Anymore than that I would be looking into rods,pistons,cams,etc...

 

I think that 40hp is VERY optimistic, almost wishfull thinking. Thinking about it from the stand point that the VG30ET has about 40 more hp(200+/-)than the VG30E(160+/-), this would make sense. But, look at it like this: You take a VG30E and add a turbo to it; you are simply NOT going to acheive the same gains, period. This is a VE engine having a turbo Frankenstined to it? No flames intended, HP just seems a bit unreasonable considering the application, nothing more.

 

No disrespect taken.I guess everyone has there own estimate and there is no real way of telling the HP gain until he actually has it running and dynos it.But I do beleive all the VE is lacking is boost when I drive my VE it seems like it has power just hiding inside but just needs more boost to push it to the limit.It will be cool to see what a stock VE with a turbo is capable of.(Since we have never seen one)

 

40hp is only about 20% of the already 190hp VE. You can't really compare the VG and VG-T. These are two different engines. Given that the VE had 4 valve heads and VTC tech, I think 40hp is actually conserative. I'm 100% Sam is being conservative becuase he doesn't want to boast and engines don't grow on trees. small steps here.

 

I just cant wait to see a VE-T I have waited a while for someone to do something big to a VE and now is the time.Like Jeff said small steps at first.But if this is succesful it could mean alot more VE-T's in the future.

 

VG and VG-T ARE two different engines and that is why you can't pull a turbo from the VG-T and slap it on a VG and achieve the same HP results! Then we have the VE, which is again different from the first two. That's why IMO I think it's a high estimate. But, as a Max enthusiast I sincerely hope it DOES produce 40hp and I'm wrong! I hope when I'm done rebuilding my VG30ET and upgrading to the JWT ecu, 400 turbo, bigger injectors, and Cobra MAF that mine will push 400hp+ !!!!

 

The OEM T3 is big enough to supply 240-260hp at maximum boost assuming its intercooled. I don't think it flows enough CFM at 5.5-6psi to supply an additional 40hp to the VE's 190hp. However assuming he had enough fuel and a FMIC, at 14-15psi it should put down around 210-240fwhp. If anything he should do a 0psi run as a baseline then do the 5.5-6psi after that to see how much he really gained. BTW Czar should port the exhaust housing of the turbo alot. There are some links on www.dsm.org of the procedure on porting the stock turbo. Although it would cause it to spool up later, he would have more midrange-toppend power because the boost won't fall off so fast. Another thing is tuning that **** will be a PITA. I can see him adding 100-104 octane with 8-10psi just to see if it could dip into the low 14's .

 

Hay guys whats the VE's compression ratio?

 

Hey guys whats the VE's compression ratio?

 

10:1

 

Aren't there non-intercooled turbo kits for the Ka24de and some Hondas that are putting out more than 40hp? And that's on a 4 cylinder w/ only about 140-160hp. Maybe on a small T3, the hp is limited but how about a t3/t4?

 

I guess we will all see.Since we dont know what a 190hp VE DOHC 24 Valve turbo is capable of.But a VQ S/C'd adds on about 70-80hp

 

A T3/TO4E turbo is basically a 400hp turbo on pump gas and 450hp on race gas. The funny thing is that at max boost (around 22-24psi) it would require 440cc injectors or better! Also the Honda turbo kits come with different size turbo's. For example the DragIII and FMAX kits come with T3/T4 turbo's, the greddy and HKS offer a smaller T25 turbo. Another thing I learnt from lurking at the Boost forums for the honda's, is that FI ain't cheap. Basically your looking at a $2-3k kit + clutch upgrade + piggyback controllers or engine management system + other accessories (boost controller/turbo timer, EGT, boost, fuel pressure gauges, wastegates) + fuel system upgrades + lots of dyno tuning + entire exhaust upgrade. Its like the bare minumim to reliably turbocharge a civic or integra is $3500+, this is assuming you get the cheaper HKS/greddy kits with the smaller turbo. Once you actually break down the cost, its alot cheaper to do a VG30ET swap into our cars than, reliably turbocharge a honda (of course this depends on how much power needs to be made). Hell the VG30ET retails around $550-900 for the long block. Then add about $2k for the clutch, fuel pump, exhaust, gauges and a good intercooler. As an added bonus the JWT ECU will make the conversion so much easier. All you do is plug and play, then use a S-AFC to fine tune it.

 

Thanks but it doesn't answer my question. Some of the real simple turbo kits MUST be giving more than 40hp even on the 4 clyinder cars. On a related note, the high compression Sc'd VQ is giving like 70-80 hp(flywheel) w/ nothing more than a fuel pump and a boost referenced fpr. Now sc'd boost is probably cooler air than turbo boost but then again the sc is giving 6-9 psi where we are only asking for 4-6 psi on Sam's car.

 

Check out www.z31.com there is a link there which breaks down the performance of the VG30ET and the effects of specific mods such as turbo and other various things which may shed some light here. Maybe I've misunderstood the whole "VE Turbo" mod going on. But, it seems that decreased timing (to lower compression) and larger injectors, new fuel pump or FP riser is needed to make this all work, assuming the stock ecu will comply. Not to mention, I've been wondering where the blow off valve is going? I would think this would be an issue even at 5-6 boost? I'm really curious and would like some added info to feed my little head. I'm sure everyone else is curious too what all is on the drawing board for this!

 

First of all, I can't say what Sam is doing. I can only comment and offer my opinions.

1) Timing will not decrease the compression ratio. That's a forumla dictated by bore/stroke/combustion chamber cc and head gasket thickness.
2) Usually you have to pull back the timing advance curve as boost comes in to prevent detonation. But I don't think it's necessary for low boost applications.
3) Larger injectors are needed only if they are at/beyond a 85% duty cycle.
4) FPR is probably a good thing here as it's one of the few ways to get the extra fuel that's needed when the boost comes in.
5) Blow off valve may/may not be needed for this low boost application.

Weren't you the one that was going to VG-T his car?

 

Wow... didn't realize there would be such controversy over my claims. I know I don't have a monster turbo on the front of my motor, but what it may lack on the high end should also make it extremely fast spooling(almost like there's no turbo lag) which would (should) give me very respectable tq figures at low RPM's. I guess we shall wait and see. If anybody has dynoed a VE 5sp with ~just~ a high flow intake, and maybe advanced timing, I really want to know what you did hp/tq wise. I run consistent 15 flat with 14.8 my best run so I figure I got maybe 200 at the crank. In the sake of public interest I will try to actually dyno this thing once it gets done, but prob 1/4 times will be first. With 200 HP in mind as a baseline, I will be adding (duh) T-3 turbo with very non restrictive intake, 2.5 downpipe to cat(3" didn't fit well under the engine), and 3" cat back. I lurked a bit on the z31 site and came up with some figures. Keep in mind that these are on a RWD car, but with simple mods (intake, exhaust, manual boost controller, under $1K) they got one to get a 14.1 1/4 with est. rear wheel hp at 243(270 crank vs. 200 stock)) so I don't think that the turbo will initially be a restriction.

But its all a wait and see until I actually finish this. Perhaps I won't get any gain at all or the driveability(important) won't be there. For this reason all parts have been retained and everything will be totally reversible(besides the broken piston ring lands!!!)

BTW Jeff gets the first drive(if he wants to flog a turbo'd VE, I don't think he'd want to though)after I get it done, only because Jonnymax lives in Portland............

 

Well whatever happens I would like to say good luck and I hope this turns out alright.I respect you taking the risk and jumping into this VET project.

 

The blow off valve is actually not an engine issue; I would have no problem doing what I intend to do w/o a BOV. The BOV helps the turbo by relieving the pressure surge when the throttle plate closes. Its two purposes are: to reduce or eliminate a reverse pressure wave that would hit the turbo compressor and stall it (not healthy for turbo); and to keep the turbo spooled up when the throttle plate closes at gear shifts. I am using a BOV from an Eclipse and I am mounting it about 3" from the throttle body between the TB and the turbo compressor.