My VE turbo Project update
1)You're right, I know VE's can't have timing adjusted. It was a question of problem solving as pertaining to the introduction of forced induction into an engine with a higher ratio. I'm curious, not trying to kill someone's idea/project! As for 2) Why does the VG-T have a lower compression ratio than the VG? VG-T boost is what (?) under 8 pounds (so when is boost considered low, high)?
3) Larger injectors? I mentioned this only because I thought it might be an issue. 4) Okay. 5) Just wondering, and I would think an essential part of doing the mod, if nothing more than a safety precation for the unexpected. But thanks Czar for answering my question! I WANT TO BE CLEAR: I am not argueing, I'm asking out of curiosity and commenting based on what (little) I may know and my opinion (like an a$$ hole, yeah, I got one too!) Yes, I'm doing the VG-T. So? I think my dropping the VG-T in the Max is a bit more cut and dry than this VE mod. I don't consider this a debat, rather a classroom and I have my hand up.
3) Larger injectors? I mentioned this only because I thought it might be an issue. 4) Okay. 5) Just wondering, and I would think an essential part of doing the mod, if nothing more than a safety precation for the unexpected. But thanks Czar for answering my question! I WANT TO BE CLEAR: I am not argueing, I'm asking out of curiosity and commenting based on what (little) I may know and my opinion (like an a$$ hole, yeah, I got one too!) Yes, I'm doing the VG-T. So? I think my dropping the VG-T in the Max is a bit more cut and dry than this VE mod. I don't consider this a debat, rather a classroom and I have my hand up.
Okay. But I wasn't arguing either. Just answering your question. The reason I ask about the VG-T project is becuase your questions seem odd for someone attempting this type of work. Just seems you would/should have known this stuff before diving in. Just so you know, the 2 people that I know of that has done the VG-T swaps knew quite a bit about turbocharging. One guy even had a stand-alone engine management system. They BOTH ended up blowing their engines. So you still have to be pretty careful. Once you up the boost, your in new territory. Good luck.
Originally posted by Chris Gregg
1)You're right, I know VE's can't have timing adjusted. It was a question of problem solving as pertaining to the introduction of forced induction into an engine with a higher ratio. I'm curious, not trying to kill someone's idea/project! As for 2) Why does the VG-T have a lower compression ratio than the VG? VG-T boost is what (?) under 8 pounds (so when is boost considered low, high)?
3) Larger injectors? I mentioned this only because I thought it might be an issue. 4) Okay. 5) Just wondering, and I would think an essential part of doing the mod, if nothing more than a safety precation for the unexpected. But thanks Czar for answering my question! I WANT TO BE CLEAR: I am not argueing, I'm asking out of curiosity and commenting based on what (little) I may know and my opinion (like an a$$ hole, yeah, I got one too!) Yes, I'm doing the VG-T. So? I think my dropping the VG-T in the Max is a bit more cut and dry than this VE mod. I don't consider this a debat, rather a classroom and I have my hand up.
1)You're right, I know VE's can't have timing adjusted. It was a question of problem solving as pertaining to the introduction of forced induction into an engine with a higher ratio. I'm curious, not trying to kill someone's idea/project! As for 2) Why does the VG-T have a lower compression ratio than the VG? VG-T boost is what (?) under 8 pounds (so when is boost considered low, high)?
3) Larger injectors? I mentioned this only because I thought it might be an issue. 4) Okay. 5) Just wondering, and I would think an essential part of doing the mod, if nothing more than a safety precation for the unexpected. But thanks Czar for answering my question! I WANT TO BE CLEAR: I am not argueing, I'm asking out of curiosity and commenting based on what (little) I may know and my opinion (like an a$$ hole, yeah, I got one too!) Yes, I'm doing the VG-T. So? I think my dropping the VG-T in the Max is a bit more cut and dry than this VE mod. I don't consider this a debat, rather a classroom and I have my hand up.
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Originally posted by Chris Gregg
1)You're right, I know VE's can't have timing adjusted.
1)You're right, I know VE's can't have timing adjusted.
BTW this isn't a flame; but, yes, you can adjust the ignition timing on a VE by doing as above. This adjustment is part of the routine tune up procedures on a VE engine.
WOW,You gained .6 just by advancing your timing? That is good...But you also must be a good driver to pull that low of 1/4 times with advanced timing and a pop charger.
Originally posted by Czar
I can't??!!? All along I thought I could adjust my ignition timing by moving the crank angle sensor... I have been deceived. Perhaps the drastically improved times(15.5 stock vs. 14.8) I got by 'advancing my timing' were all a matter of learning how to race and the butt dyno gains were all in my head.
BTW this isn't a flame; but, yes, you can adjust the ignition timing on a VE by doing as above. This adjustment is part of the routine tune up procedures on a VE engine.
I can't??!!? All along I thought I could adjust my ignition timing by moving the crank angle sensor... I have been deceived. Perhaps the drastically improved times(15.5 stock vs. 14.8) I got by 'advancing my timing' were all a matter of learning how to race and the butt dyno gains were all in my head.
BTW this isn't a flame; but, yes, you can adjust the ignition timing on a VE by doing as above. This adjustment is part of the routine tune up procedures on a VE engine.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,806
Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree with Chris on this one.....
That is very true however, 95% of the time its because the user added a boost controller and upped the boost alittle. Right now all we have is few facts/figures of what a turbo VE should/could do. However I do know for a fact that a nissan T3 turbo flows a max of 260hp at the flywheel with proper fuel/ECU tuning/intercooler at 14psi. At one time on the Z31 board a member posted several dyno charts a various boost levels. Right now the links are dead 
but I do remember him saying he was detonating at 11psi on the stock ECU with intake, 3in downpipe + exhaust. His rwhp was around 210-215 with like 240-255rwtq IIRC. If anything Czar's car should have alot of torque around 2900-4000rpm. The T3 starts to spool around 2600-2700rpm and reaches max boost around 3200-3300rpm (manual boost controller). I'll bet his engine would probably detonate after 8-9psi due to high intake charge temps. Then again a starion or volvo IC with $100 in piping would fix that right up 
EDITI found the link http://z31.com/board/read.php3?id=35563&srf=nein. I got mad scearch skillz yo!
but I do remember him saying he was detonating at 11psi on the stock ECU with intake, 3in downpipe + exhaust. His rwhp was around 210-215 with like 240-255rwtq IIRC. If anything Czar's car should have alot of torque around 2900-4000rpm. The T3 starts to spool around 2600-2700rpm and reaches max boost around 3200-3300rpm (manual boost controller). I'll bet his engine would probably detonate after 8-9psi due to high intake charge temps. Then again a starion or volvo IC with $100 in piping would fix that right up EDITI found the link http://z31.com/board/read.php3?id=35563&srf=nein. I got mad scearch skillz yo!
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Thanks but it doesn't answer my question. Some of the real simple turbo kits MUST be giving more than 40hp even on the 4 clyinder cars. On a related note, the high compression Sc'd VQ is giving like 70-80 hp(flywheel) w/ nothing more than a fuel pump and a boost referenced fpr. Now sc'd boost is probably cooler air than turbo boost but then again the sc is giving 6-9 psi where we are only asking for 4-6 psi on Sam's car.
Thanks but it doesn't answer my question. Some of the real simple turbo kits MUST be giving more than 40hp even on the 4 clyinder cars. On a related note, the high compression Sc'd VQ is giving like 70-80 hp(flywheel) w/ nothing more than a fuel pump and a boost referenced fpr. Now sc'd boost is probably cooler air than turbo boost but then again the sc is giving 6-9 psi where we are only asking for 4-6 psi on Sam's car.
I dont think I've seen this mentioned yet, but dont you usually put a colder spark plug in when you want to reduce the chances of detonation. I'm sure you guys already knew that although. Czar... how many heat ranges are you going to go (2?) and BTW good luck, I hope to do a VE-T prodject one day.
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Posts: 2,806
Congrats 
arty: on the project if you don't mind I have a couple questions for ya? What kind of idle and running problems are you experiencing now? What did you set your base ignition timing/fuel pressure at? At what rpm does the turbo hit full boost and does it keep full boost throught the entire rpm band? What kind of boost controller, BOV or POV are you using? What size exhaust are you using and how did you plumb the intake piping? I don't remember if you are still using the stock fuel pump or not but walbro makes some good replacements that are cheap. I've seen a few people that installed a turbo or nitrous without doing the fuel pump and killing the motor. I'm not saying you would blow your motor but, it would give you way more of a safety margin. BTW have you tried playing with the powervalve to see how it affects the engine's torque?
arty: on the project if you don't mind I have a couple questions for ya? What kind of idle and running problems are you experiencing now? What did you set your base ignition timing/fuel pressure at? At what rpm does the turbo hit full boost and does it keep full boost throught the entire rpm band? What kind of boost controller, BOV or POV are you using? What size exhaust are you using and how did you plumb the intake piping? I don't remember if you are still using the stock fuel pump or not but walbro makes some good replacements that are cheap. I've seen a few people that installed a turbo or nitrous without doing the fuel pump and killing the motor. I'm not saying you would blow your motor but, it would give you way more of a safety margin. BTW have you tried playing with the powervalve to see how it affects the engine's torque?
Originally posted by Czar
I just wanted to say that I am done. While tuning issues remain, I am driving my car and boosting 5 lbs.
I just wanted to say that I am done. While tuning issues remain, I am driving my car and boosting 5 lbs.
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What kind of idle and running problems are you experiencing now?
My car runs great all the time, surprisingly. Initially I couldn't get it to idle at all, but I realized that the two hoses that I had disconnected from the intake were required to be hooked up behind the MAS for correct idle metering.
What did you set your base ignition timing/fuel pressure at?
Initially I retarded it about 5 degrees below stock but have since added timing so its about maybe a degree below stock.
At what rpm does the turbo hit full boost and does it keep full boost throught the entire rpm band?
About 2500 or so, but it does fall off after 5500. I haven't run WOT past there yet because of detonation probs. I thank the small T-3 for the tire (and clutch) smoking torque I have in first and second.
What kind of boost controller, BOV or POV are you using?
I am using the stock internal wastegate which opens fully by 5.5 psi. I also have an eclipse BOV that I haven't hooked up yet.
What size exhaust are you using and how did you plumb the intake piping?
Stock exhaust, 2 1/2 downpipe to cat, 1 3/4 crossover, and 2 1/2 intake piping from the stock air filter location to turbo and from turbo to TB
I don't remember if you are still using the stock fuel pump or not but walbro makes some good replacements that are cheap.
I will just modify my FPR to give me 55-60 lbs at full boost.
BTW have you tried playing with the powervalve to see how it affects the engine's torque?
Nope, have way more torque than the clutch can handle at this point. (My clutch was perfectly adequate until I did this, need an ACT now)
Hopefully I don't kill the motor. I am kinda taking it cautiously and I am not raising the BP beyond 5.5.
My car runs great all the time, surprisingly. Initially I couldn't get it to idle at all, but I realized that the two hoses that I had disconnected from the intake were required to be hooked up behind the MAS for correct idle metering.
What did you set your base ignition timing/fuel pressure at?
Initially I retarded it about 5 degrees below stock but have since added timing so its about maybe a degree below stock.
At what rpm does the turbo hit full boost and does it keep full boost throught the entire rpm band?
About 2500 or so, but it does fall off after 5500. I haven't run WOT past there yet because of detonation probs. I thank the small T-3 for the tire (and clutch) smoking torque I have in first and second.
What kind of boost controller, BOV or POV are you using?
I am using the stock internal wastegate which opens fully by 5.5 psi. I also have an eclipse BOV that I haven't hooked up yet.
What size exhaust are you using and how did you plumb the intake piping?
Stock exhaust, 2 1/2 downpipe to cat, 1 3/4 crossover, and 2 1/2 intake piping from the stock air filter location to turbo and from turbo to TB
I don't remember if you are still using the stock fuel pump or not but walbro makes some good replacements that are cheap.
I will just modify my FPR to give me 55-60 lbs at full boost.
BTW have you tried playing with the powervalve to see how it affects the engine's torque?
Nope, have way more torque than the clutch can handle at this point. (My clutch was perfectly adequate until I did this, need an ACT now)
Hopefully I don't kill the motor. I am kinda taking it cautiously and I am not raising the BP beyond 5.5.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,806
Now I must have a VE-T :)
Originally posted by Czar
At what rpm does the turbo hit full boost and does it keep full boost throught the entire rpm band?
About 2500 or so, but it does fall off after 5500. I haven't run WOT past there yet because of detonation probs. I thank the small T-3 for the tire (and clutch) smoking torque I have in first and second.
So you are experiencing detonation at high rpm. A cheap fix would be to retard base timing, but you would lose torque all over that point below the detonation. Also if you were to dyno the car, try different base timing settings. I know from being on the SE-R, they suggest trying 1-2 degree's retard and 2-4 degree's advance.
If you wanted to you could do a free mod to the turbo to keep the boost from falling off. I believe the DSM guys would port the exhaust housing and the wastegate flap. Now it does cause slightly more lag but the result is more topend power.
What size exhaust are you using and how did you plumb the intake piping?
Stock exhaust, 2 1/2 downpipe to cat, 1 3/4 crossover, and 2 1/2 intake piping from the stock air filter location to turbo and from turbo to TB
You know you want a full 3in exhaust from the downpipe to muffler. This exhaust mod should help increase the spoolup and free up around 10-20fwhp.
BTW have you tried playing with the powervalve to see how it affects the engine's torque?
Nope, have way more torque than the clutch can handle at this point. (My clutch was perfectly adequate until I did this, need an ACT now)
Hehe I would have told you that
. If you wanted to you could get a VG30DETT flywheel and run an OEM disk/pressure plate. But then again the flywheel/disk/PP would cost more than an ACT would.
Hopefully I don't kill the motor. I am kinda taking it cautiously and I am not raising the BP beyond 5.5.
In the future when $$ premits you should try electronic boost controllers. Given the same level of boost the controller will stop boost creep/spiking and provide more boost (not more that what you set it for) from full boost to rev limiter.
At what rpm does the turbo hit full boost and does it keep full boost throught the entire rpm band?
About 2500 or so, but it does fall off after 5500. I haven't run WOT past there yet because of detonation probs. I thank the small T-3 for the tire (and clutch) smoking torque I have in first and second.
So you are experiencing detonation at high rpm. A cheap fix would be to retard base timing, but you would lose torque all over that point below the detonation. Also if you were to dyno the car, try different base timing settings. I know from being on the SE-R, they suggest trying 1-2 degree's retard and 2-4 degree's advance.
If you wanted to you could do a free mod to the turbo to keep the boost from falling off. I believe the DSM guys would port the exhaust housing and the wastegate flap. Now it does cause slightly more lag but the result is more topend power.
What size exhaust are you using and how did you plumb the intake piping?
Stock exhaust, 2 1/2 downpipe to cat, 1 3/4 crossover, and 2 1/2 intake piping from the stock air filter location to turbo and from turbo to TB
You know you want a full 3in exhaust from the downpipe to muffler. This exhaust mod should help increase the spoolup and free up around 10-20fwhp.
BTW have you tried playing with the powervalve to see how it affects the engine's torque?
Nope, have way more torque than the clutch can handle at this point. (My clutch was perfectly adequate until I did this, need an ACT now)
Hehe I would have told you that
. If you wanted to you could get a VG30DETT flywheel and run an OEM disk/pressure plate. But then again the flywheel/disk/PP would cost more than an ACT would. Hopefully I don't kill the motor. I am kinda taking it cautiously and I am not raising the BP beyond 5.5.
In the future when $$ premits you should try electronic boost controllers. Given the same level of boost the controller will stop boost creep/spiking and provide more boost (not more that what you set it for) from full boost to rev limiter.
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