Max shaking and stalling
10-19-2007, 06:13 PM
#1
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Location: Ocean County,NJ
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Max shaking and stalling
A buddy of mine has 94 max and he has been having problems with it, he says that sometimes when he puts it in gear, the car shuts off, before it was just shaking a lot and now sometimes it wont start at all, any sugguestions what it could be? I was thinking that it sounded like something electrical, not sure what though
10-20-2007, 07:14 AM
#4
does his car have white dials like an SE or black dials like your GXE/GLE? SE also has no chrome anywhere, bodycolor grille and black door mirrors, and leather steering wheel. GXE has chrome (including grille), bodycolor mirror, and vinyl stuff. We ain't got no GLE. At least not in the USA. So if we know his trim level (being a 92-94 GXE has different motor from SE) then we'll know his engine too. All the first series 3rd gens had the same VG engine.
10-20-2007, 07:00 PM
#7
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 153
Hmm, well mine always starts, but runs like crap, and sometimes stalls when I first put it in gear (unless I give it gas for a good 10 seconds)
Anyone know if changing fuel injectors on the VE30DE is a DIY job? (have changed plugs, done breaks etc myself)
Anyone know if changing fuel injectors on the VE30DE is a DIY job? (have changed plugs, done breaks etc myself)
10-21-2007, 01:13 PM
#12
Why dont you give us a lil more background on the car such as what you've done to it... Injectors are a DIY if you got tools, time, and common sense..
Your timing might be extremely off, along with a few injectors contributing to that. Hell hows your MAF? does the car rev past 2k RPMs when it actually is on?
10-21-2007, 05:44 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 179
Vacuum leaks will make it run really rough, and even make it stall. Combine that with a bad injector or two, and you'll have a mighty fine mess. Maf will make it run rough as well. Unplug the maf sensor, and start it up. If it runs nice and smooth with the maf unhooked, then that it your problem. If it still runs rough, then look elsewhere.
10-23-2007, 04:26 AM
#15
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Ok, check timing, CTS, and MAF. I honestly dont even know where to look for those. (or what CTS stands for) Can I use an ODB2 code reader to check a 92? Or do I need something older?
The engine has no problem reving over 2k. It has a consistent rough idle, and has no change when I pull the wires from cylinders 2, or 3 (firing order) while engine is running, so I'm assuming I have 2 bad injectors. Other than that I get an occasional 'thunk" noise and shuddering while attempting to accelerate, and there is sometimes a timing issue with the engine response to my change in gas pressure (but not all the time).
I'm assuming the main issue is fixing the misfires before looking at other issues. It also has a godawful VTC tick that dosent seem to go away when I ground it. (no nissan dealer (or any dealer) in my area seems to know what im talking about when I mention this issue to them)
The engine has no problem reving over 2k. It has a consistent rough idle, and has no change when I pull the wires from cylinders 2, or 3 (firing order) while engine is running, so I'm assuming I have 2 bad injectors. Other than that I get an occasional 'thunk" noise and shuddering while attempting to accelerate, and there is sometimes a timing issue with the engine response to my change in gas pressure (but not all the time).
I'm assuming the main issue is fixing the misfires before looking at other issues. It also has a godawful VTC tick that dosent seem to go away when I ground it. (no nissan dealer (or any dealer) in my area seems to know what im talking about when I mention this issue to them)
10-23-2007, 04:31 AM
#16
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 153
Also, I changed the plugs about a year ago, (ones i changed out still looked clean) and the coil packs look fine.
I currently have my eye on 2 ebay auctions for replacment parts:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=008
I know the VQ30DE injectors should work in a VE30DE, can I use the fuel rail assembly as well?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=016
Other one are some cleaned up used injectors. Still debating which of the 2 auctions to bid for.
I currently have my eye on 2 ebay auctions for replacment parts:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=008
I know the VQ30DE injectors should work in a VE30DE, can I use the fuel rail assembly as well?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=016
Other one are some cleaned up used injectors. Still debating which of the 2 auctions to bid for.
10-23-2007, 06:39 AM
#17
Ok, check timing, CTS, and MAF. I honestly dont even know where to look for those. (or what CTS stands for) Can I use an ODB2 code reader to check a 92? Or do I need something older?
The engine has no problem reving over 2k. It has a consistent rough idle, and has no change when I pull the wires from cylinders 2, or 3 (firing order) while engine is running, so I'm assuming I have 2 bad injectors. Other than that I get an occasional 'thunk" noise and shuddering while attempting to accelerate, and there is sometimes a timing issue with the engine response to my change in gas pressure (but not all the time).
I'm assuming the main issue is fixing the misfires before looking at other issues. It also has a godawful VTC tick that dosent seem to go away when I ground it. (no nissan dealer (or any dealer) in my area seems to know what im talking about when I mention this issue to them)
The engine has no problem reving over 2k. It has a consistent rough idle, and has no change when I pull the wires from cylinders 2, or 3 (firing order) while engine is running, so I'm assuming I have 2 bad injectors. Other than that I get an occasional 'thunk" noise and shuddering while attempting to accelerate, and there is sometimes a timing issue with the engine response to my change in gas pressure (but not all the time).
I'm assuming the main issue is fixing the misfires before looking at other issues. It also has a godawful VTC tick that dosent seem to go away when I ground it. (no nissan dealer (or any dealer) in my area seems to know what im talking about when I mention this issue to them)
the thunk is a bad bushing in the suspension. more than likely a control arm bushing.
if grounding the VTCs didn't quiet them, then they NEED to be rebuilt at a minimum if not replaced.
unless the car is in perfect shape, I'd look at getting another car.
Also, I changed the plugs about a year ago, (ones i changed out still looked clean) and the coil packs look fine.
I currently have my eye on 2 ebay auctions for replacment parts:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=008
I know the VQ30DE injectors should work in a VE30DE, can I use the fuel rail assembly as well?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=016
Other one are some cleaned up used injectors. Still debating which of the 2 auctions to bid for.
I currently have my eye on 2 ebay auctions for replacment parts:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=008
I know the VQ30DE injectors should work in a VE30DE, can I use the fuel rail assembly as well?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=016
Other one are some cleaned up used injectors. Still debating which of the 2 auctions to bid for.
I seriously doubt the VQ fuel rail can be used in the VE
on injectors either get used from a running car or new. Rebuilt is waste of money.
10-23-2007, 07:19 PM
#18
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
I have a problem with my 92 gxe. When I first got it about 8 months ago everything was fine, then occationally when i would start it, it would run rough like it was missing on one cyclinder. I would turn it off and restart it and it would run fine. then over a period of a few weeks it changed from an intermittant problem that I could sometimes solve by restarting it to an all the time problem that doesnt go away. I pulled each of the plug wires while running and they all made a big difference when I pulled them.
only have this problem at idle. kinda rough when I rev it but seems to run fine when driving at normal speeds.
only have this problem at idle. kinda rough when I rev it but seems to run fine when driving at normal speeds.
10-24-2007, 07:43 AM
#19
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 179
Check over the ignition system, cap rotor, wires, and plugs. Pay special attention to the condition of all your plugs, and whether any of them are loose when you take them out, and whether any are different in color. If you find one that is wet / dark compared to the rest, that plug isn't firing.
10-25-2007, 05:09 AM
#21
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Check over the ignition system, cap rotor, wires, and plugs. Pay special attention to the condition of all your plugs, and whether any of them are loose when you take them out, and whether any are different in color. If you find one that is wet / dark compared to the rest, that plug isn't firing.
You guys mention coil packs. I thought there was simply one coil and the distributor sent the spark around to the different plugs.
10-25-2007, 06:24 AM
#22
I changed out all my plugs, my wires and rotor cap. All my plugs looked exactly the same except for one. while all the other plugs had a nice clean white appearance one plug looked slightly brown not a big differnce but a noticable one.
You guys mention coil packs. I thought there was simply one coil and the distributor sent the spark around to the different plugs.
You guys mention coil packs. I thought there was simply one coil and the distributor sent the spark around to the different plugs.
VE30DE DOHC = 6 coils
10-25-2007, 07:19 AM
#23
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 179
raygord mentioned that his car is a GXE, didn't all 3rd gen GXE's come with the VG30E SOHC? Plus, he said he had changed the wires and cap / rotor, the VG30DE DOHC doesn't have them does it?
I would guess that the dark plug came out of the cylinder that isn't firing. I wish I had taken pictures, or saved the plugs, but basically, all of mine looked good, a bit too light in color because the vacuum leak was making the engine run a bit lean. The #4 plug looked a bit dark though, not black, just kind of wet / dark compared to the rest. I believe that cylinder is getting too much gas because the injector is stuck open. Therefore it isn't firing. Removing the plug wire from that cylinder didn't really make a noticeable difference in the way the car runs, thus confirming that cylinder isn't firing, or at least not properly.
Before the total failure, I had some rough idling, and the occasional miss, which was probably the result of that injector staying partially open, and letting a bit too much fuel into that cylinder, then eventually it just got stuck so far open that the cylinder is too rich to fire properly, or at all. Your injector may not be stuck completely open, it may be only partially messed up.
I would guess that the dark plug came out of the cylinder that isn't firing. I wish I had taken pictures, or saved the plugs, but basically, all of mine looked good, a bit too light in color because the vacuum leak was making the engine run a bit lean. The #4 plug looked a bit dark though, not black, just kind of wet / dark compared to the rest. I believe that cylinder is getting too much gas because the injector is stuck open. Therefore it isn't firing. Removing the plug wire from that cylinder didn't really make a noticeable difference in the way the car runs, thus confirming that cylinder isn't firing, or at least not properly.
Before the total failure, I had some rough idling, and the occasional miss, which was probably the result of that injector staying partially open, and letting a bit too much fuel into that cylinder, then eventually it just got stuck so far open that the cylinder is too rich to fire properly, or at all. Your injector may not be stuck completely open, it may be only partially messed up.
Last edited by Tquick; 10-25-2007 at 07:25 AM.
10-25-2007, 05:40 PM
#27
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
raygord mentioned that his car is a GXE, didn't all 3rd gen GXE's come with the VG30E SOHC? Plus, he said he had changed the wires and cap / rotor, the VG30DE DOHC doesn't have them does it?
I would guess that the dark plug came out of the cylinder that isn't firing. I wish I had taken pictures, or saved the plugs, but basically, all of mine looked good, a bit too light in color because the vacuum leak was making the engine run a bit lean. The #4 plug looked a bit dark though, not black, just kind of wet / dark compared to the rest. I believe that cylinder is getting too much gas because the injector is stuck open. Therefore it isn't firing. Removing the plug wire from that cylinder didn't really make a noticeable difference in the way the car runs, thus confirming that cylinder isn't firing, or at least not properly.
Before the total failure, I had some rough idling, and the occasional miss, which was probably the result of that injector staying partially open, and letting a bit too much fuel into that cylinder, then eventually it just got stuck so far open that the cylinder is too rich to fire properly, or at all. Your injector may not be stuck completely open, it may be only partially messed up.
I would guess that the dark plug came out of the cylinder that isn't firing. I wish I had taken pictures, or saved the plugs, but basically, all of mine looked good, a bit too light in color because the vacuum leak was making the engine run a bit lean. The #4 plug looked a bit dark though, not black, just kind of wet / dark compared to the rest. I believe that cylinder is getting too much gas because the injector is stuck open. Therefore it isn't firing. Removing the plug wire from that cylinder didn't really make a noticeable difference in the way the car runs, thus confirming that cylinder isn't firing, or at least not properly.
Before the total failure, I had some rough idling, and the occasional miss, which was probably the result of that injector staying partially open, and letting a bit too much fuel into that cylinder, then eventually it just got stuck so far open that the cylinder is too rich to fire properly, or at all. Your injector may not be stuck completely open, it may be only partially messed up.
Now as for a stuck injector. Would that require cleaning replacing, or cleaning contacts. I was looking at the injectors this morning and noticed that a couple of them have cracked rubber boots where the wires come in to the injector. I also noticed what looks like alot of corrosion on the contacts cause I was able to see them through the cracked boots. One other thing I noticed. This last weekend I changed the plugs cap wires etc. as mentioned while I had the plugs out I looked down inside the cylinders and noticed the one cylinder with the darker plug. The top of the piston looked wet. Looked like gas sitting on top of the piston. other pistons looked dry and grey.
10-25-2007, 08:13 PM
#28
The cheapest way to find out is to spend like 5 bucks on electrical harness cleaner. It did wonders for me and the gf. Just go to like autozone or a parts store and get a can.
10-26-2007, 09:59 AM
#29
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Posts: 179
raygord, sounds to me like you got a stuck injector. Cleaning up the contacts cant hurt, but it isn't like the cause of the problem. The injectors are supposed to be closed normally, then open for a short period of time when they get the signal from the ECU. If the corrosion was causing a problem, the injector wouldn't open at all, and you would get no fuel. Sounds instead like the injector is mechanically stuck open, and dumping too much fuel into the cylinder, exactly what I think is happening on mine. I'm in the process of collecting parts, and will likely do the job next weekend.
10-27-2007, 03:46 AM
#30
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 153
CTS is Coolant Temperature Sensor
the thunk is a bad bushing in the suspension. more than likely a control arm bushing.
if grounding the VTCs didn't quiet them, then they NEED to be rebuilt at a minimum if not replaced.
unless the car is in perfect shape, I'd look at getting another car.
the thunk is a bad bushing in the suspension. more than likely a control arm bushing.
if grounding the VTCs didn't quiet them, then they NEED to be rebuilt at a minimum if not replaced.
unless the car is in perfect shape, I'd look at getting another car.
Anyway, I'm gonna put the 97 injectors in it, and see how much of the problem it fixes.
As for the VTC's, Whats the general going rate these days to get them fixed? And should they be replaced, or rebuilt?
I dont really have the money for a full new car.. And kind of like this car, as i've had it back since high school. Idealy, it would be nice to get it completely fixed up, but may not be financially feasable until i graduate school this summer.
10-27-2007, 06:14 PM
#31
Anyway, I'm gonna put the 97 injectors in it, and see how much of the problem it fixes.
As for the VTC's, Whats the general going rate these days to get them fixed? And should they be replaced, or rebuilt?
As for the VTC's, Whats the general going rate these days to get them fixed? And should they be replaced, or rebuilt?
I dont really have the money for a full new car.. And kind of like this car, as i've had it back since high school. Idealy, it would be nice to get it completely fixed up, but may not be financially feasable until i graduate school this summer.
10-27-2007, 06:55 PM
#32
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Vacuum leaks will make it run really rough, and even make it stall. Combine that with a bad injector or two, and you'll have a mighty fine mess. Maf will make it run rough as well. Unplug the maf sensor, and start it up. If it runs nice and smooth with the maf unhooked, then that it your problem. If it still runs rough, then look elsewhere.
10-27-2007, 08:20 PM
#33
You can try but it will take you forever to reach the speed limit and thats if you dont stall the car, if you have a VG it wont go past 2000 RPMs and if its a VE I believe it 2300 RPMs
10-27-2007, 10:43 PM
#34
ya so the autotranny is going to shift when it normally would meaning that you have to use SO LITTLE gas that it would shift at 2000rpm naturally, which won't be easy. Uphill, almost impossible. I'm sure you could get used to how to drive it, but I don't think the results will be to your satisfaction.
10-29-2007, 05:31 PM
#35
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23
HI, I am new here, just registered and it won't let me post new thread yet, but my problem is similar to the one mentioned in the thread, so I put it here. My 94 GXE run rough and the check engine light came on occasionally, and fuel economy took a dive. Took it to a garage, they could not find any code and I took it to Nissan dealer. After paying $100 for the check up, I was told I need to replace all 6 injectors plus some related parts, and the total came to about $3000. My question is if replacing the injectors a DIY job. Can I find out which injector is bad by pulling plugs wires one by one and locate the bad injector that way?
Thanks.
Thanks.
10-29-2007, 06:09 PM
#36
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 179
Yes, you can do it yourself. Yes, you should be able to figure out which cylinders are the problem by pulling plug wires. Alternately, you can pull plugs, and look for the ones that are discolored. Since you will be taking the intake apart to do this job, it is a good time to replace fuel lines, fuel filter (have to relieve the pressure, so might as well replace it while you are in there) O-rings, and vacuum lines as you will have access to all that stuff.
10-30-2007, 03:00 PM
#37
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23
Thanks for the info. I am so tempted to do this myself, although my experience with fixing cars stays at oil change, break work and the minor stuff. I never opened up an engine. For those who have done it, how hard is it? and what kind of time it may required for a newbie like me with only the Chilton manual?
10-30-2007, 10:59 PM
#38
since you sound like you want to get your hands dirty, you can check the resistance of the injectors directly as an alternative method to check for poorly performing injectors.
IIRC, good injectors will have resistance aournd 14ohm +/-10
Bad is about +80-90ohm
Somone correct me if i got my resistance numbers wrong
In addition, here's a helpful website written up by a fellow org member by the real name Bryan Tisch. Not sure what his org name is or if he's still around. It's a good write up. Here are all the sites I primarily use:
Bryan Tisch for injectors
ever so famous, Craig Brace for other stuff
great DIY's and knowledge base
IIRC, good injectors will have resistance aournd 14ohm +/-10
Bad is about +80-90ohm
Somone correct me if i got my resistance numbers wrong
In addition, here's a helpful website written up by a fellow org member by the real name Bryan Tisch. Not sure what his org name is or if he's still around. It's a good write up. Here are all the sites I primarily use:
Bryan Tisch for injectors
ever so famous, Craig Brace for other stuff
great DIY's and knowledge base
Last edited by super32; 10-30-2007 at 11:32 PM. Reason: adding in URLs
10-31-2007, 03:08 AM
#39
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23
since you sound like you want to get your hands dirty, you can check the resistance of the injectors directly as an alternative method to check for poorly performing injectors.
IIRC, good injectors will have resistance aournd 14ohm +/-10
Bad is about +80-90ohm
Somone correct me if i got my resistance numbers wrong
In addition, here's a helpful website written up by a fellow org member by the real name Bryan Tisch. Not sure what his org name is or if he's still around. It's a good write up. Here are all the sites I primarily use:
Bryan Tisch for injectors
ever so famous, Craig Brace for other stuff
great DIY's and knowledge base
IIRC, good injectors will have resistance aournd 14ohm +/-10
Bad is about +80-90ohm
Somone correct me if i got my resistance numbers wrong
In addition, here's a helpful website written up by a fellow org member by the real name Bryan Tisch. Not sure what his org name is or if he's still around. It's a good write up. Here are all the sites I primarily use:
Bryan Tisch for injectors
ever so famous, Craig Brace for other stuff
great DIY's and knowledge base
10-31-2007, 06:19 AM
#40