internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

What brings you back Walt?

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Yes, everything worked perfectly...even after the swap...that is what scares the bejesus out of me.

I don't really want to swap the harness for the whole damb car. But, if I have to, I have to.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Ok, been working at this all day and I have made some observations. My son, ghostridden, reminded me that my turn signals have not worked since swapping the harness and it is because there are more/different wires on the 92.

I am gonna have to do some swapping around of some wires.




Does anyone out there have a wiring diagram of the 89-91 turn signal circuit and also the ASCD circuit? I need this to be able to cross reference the differences of mine vs. the 92. What I plan on doing is splicing/rewiring to get what I want out of it.

Thanks in advance!!!

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Well, I made some progress today.

We got the DL to work again! YEA! We had changed the front passenger side window switch because my original one had quit working. Anyway, the plug was exactly the same but the 90 had like 8 leads and the 92 only had 4 leads. Duh, I feel like such a moron!!!

Now the fun part.....I get to hybridize (is that a word? LOL) the harness for the TS and the ASCD. Yipee!

Still looking for a FSM for a 89-91. Anyone?

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

Here you go. The SMJ layout should be the exact same, I scanned it anyway. Right click and save as, lame server doesn't support linking.

http://pearlmax.freehyperspace.com/Mike90SE/SMJ.GIF
http://pearlmax.freehyperspace.com/Mike90SE/ASCD.GIF
http://pearlmax.freehyperspace.com/Mike90SE/TS.GIF

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Thank you sir! You are the man

I think this is exactly what I need. Now to just figure it all out.

How is your abilities in rewiring something like this? My mechanical skills are excellent, but I am extremely lacking in the rewiring department.

If you have any clues that will help me, I would appreciate them.

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

Coincidentally i'm right in the middle of swapping fuel pumps right now so I can finally have a working fuel gauge for the first time since doing the digital dash conversion. Just came in to eat something and double check some stuff in the FSM. For the conversion I built a dual harness as well, to accomodate both types of gauges. It took a lot of studying of these diagrams, so I can probably be of some help. I'll take a look after i'm done with the fuel pump. You might want to try swapping the combo switch from the VE to the VE converted car. IIRC, they are different. Either that or all these gas fumes i've been breathing for the last hour are getting to me

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Right now my car has 92VE wiring under the hood to the steering wheel but 90SE wiring everywhere else. I am trying to swap in the ASCD, the door lock timer and the Combo flasher. The door lock timer is not a big deal though, as I have them working again.

The 90SE combo flasher has several wires going into it and the 92VE only has three. The ASCD for the 90 has 10 wires and the 92 has 12. Any help here would be GREAT!!!

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

Wow man, I hope you still have your VE parts car. It's going to be MUCH easier for you to directly swap all of the wiring and control units into the exVG. Pin locations on the connectors are all different. The electrical system got a complete overhaul in 92 and there are even more differences for the VE. By comparing all the diagrams, i'd say you're lucky the only things that don't work are your turn signals and cruise. If you decided to rewire, it would be a complete mess and would take forever to cut, splice, join and crimp all these wires, not to mention it will be uncomfortable as all hell you crouch down under the dash and work on all of the connectors.

The SMJ is your friend. It's the central hub of the entire electrical system, and is the same on all 89-94 Maximas. If all the wiring, relays, fusible links, and electrical parts from the VE have been directly swapped over and everything is connected like it should be in a factory VE engine bay, then you can completely forget about that side of the firewall. Which means all you have to do is pull the dash out and unplug the big white connector on the SMJ, then just keep removing connectors until the entire harness is free. Certain parts of the harness can probably be cut so you don't have to pull out the headliner and everything just to get to the dome light for example. BUT, what i'd do is remove the COMPLETE harness from the VE first, without cutting anywhere, which means you might have to tear apart a lot of the interior. But when you go to remove the harness from the exVG and install it, you can say "this 2 wire branch just goes to the dome light, i'll cut and crimp it with the branch from the VE". So you won't have to remove quite as much, and you'll be more familiar with the routing of the harness.

I'll write a little more in awhile, but the All Star game is starting. It's B-Roy time!

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

I think you are scaring me.

ghostridden

iTrader: (2)

wat? the wiring or the fact he likes watching thugs on court?? lol

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

Sorry man. Just letting you know my opinion What you want to do is possible, it's just a lot of work. Just saying that if I were in your shoes, I would do what I said in my last post simply to avoid rewiring altogether. I haven't reallly looked much at the turn signal diagrams, which I assume is your priority right now. The ASCD is what i've been looking at and the configuration is different for Canadian, American, automatic and manual models, VG and VE. Your problem could be relatively simple because all wires go to the same pin at the SMJ. The problem is, I don't know specifics on what you swapped and didn't swap in the engine bay. If you completely cleaned out the engine bay and swapped all components, relay and fuse boxes over from the VE, from what I can see, it should work using the VG interior wiring. Were both cars originally 5 speeds? Might be as simple as the clutch switch (or lack of) preventing the CC from engaging. I don't want to tell you to rewire the connector and swap the control unit, or anything else that is going to take awhile, because I don't want to waste your time with a crap shoot. I just don't know enough about the specifics of what you did and didn't swap, to pinpoint your problem with the CC, and if I did, I probably still couldn't tell you exactly what the problem is. I can tell you that the control unit connector is wired differently, but it basically does the same thing and all wires lead to the same pins on the SMJ with both cars, only different pin locations at the control unit connector. I wouldn't try swapping control units either, that would just cause more problems because just about all the wires would be going to the wrong place. You might possibly ruin the control unit from the original VE. I wish I had the answer for you, but I don't.

The signals are a different story, i'll get back to you.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

What I changed in the engine bay....if it was a wire and it was out there, it was swapped. Nothing from the VG survived the engine swap under the hood. I have done no splicing or anything to the harness at this point. So, all the wires to the steering column and SMJ were replaced with the 1992 VE stuff. Everything else under the dash is 1990 VG

You are correct, the turn signals are TOP PRIORITY right now. I really think the problem is that I am not getting a signal from the multi switch to the combo flasher because my hazards work fine, but nothing at the turn signals. The turn signals were working in both cars before I swapped the wiring, and I tried installing the multi switch from the VE into my car just to make sure the VG switch had not gone bad, but it made no difference. According to the FSM, there are only 3 wires that work the turn signals. Where the difference between the VG and the VE is, is a mystery to me. Heck, I may not even have to run any wires, maybe I can just swap some around either at the SMJ or at the combo flasher?


The CC will engage, so to speak. Meaning, it will light up the light in the dash and will stay on until the car drops 10mph, then it goes off. The CC will not hold speed at all. I believe the problem here is at the ASCD control box under the dash or at the SMJ. The plug and wiring under the dash here is VG and has a different plug than the VE.

Any help you can give me would be AWESOME! I would be greatly in your debt.

Wiking

Have you tested, engine idling, directly to control the ASCD vacuum?

Checkout Your Actuator - if its like min€ -93 VGE J30:
When actuator connector pins 3&4 are set up +12V and pin 1 is set to gnd, actuator pump starts and keeps on, valve closed. Four seconds later, throttle is stuck at 4/5. Take connections off, pressure is released and throttle travels to idle position.
see http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/19

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

No, I have not tried this, but I did see it on your site last night. I usually only get to tinker with it on the weekends as it is my DD and I don't have time during the week. I will give it a go and see what happens.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

with the signals plug a test light into the orange/blue wire of the signal switch harness. the test light should blink. go from there. I'll test it myself tomorrow on my parts car (as my regular maxima is stranded in a parking lot...)


that's a diagram of how the signal system works. rear signals and hazard light switch ommitted from picture. i have the original powerpoint i did this on on a different computer so i can't modify it on the fly. anyhow, i hope this helps? as long as pins 1 and 2 are continuous on your hazard switch your signals should work. make sure of this. swap hazard switches between the 2 cars if you haven't already, as a test. 1 and 2 should be continuous when hazards are off, because pin 1 is the power supply to the flasher unit and pin 2 is the power supply from the ignition in ON or START. Pin 3 is why hazard lights work when the car is off, as pin 3 is a battery 12v feed... but signals of course only work when car is in the ON/START position.

btw i like looking at 3rd gen wiring diagrams sometimes when my mind needs exercise. i printed off 5 pages worth for personal use about 15 minutes ago.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Quick question. Is this for 92-94 or 89-91? I am sure I am making this harder than it really is.

Wiking

No. Its General Electric (GE) for digital Blinks.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

is that Wiking-ese for "that's how most cars are"?

Alex_V

No hes probably saying that its one of the few things thats the same between all 3rd gens, Id look in my FSM but w/e.

~Alex

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Weel, I do know that the wiring coloring is different from the 89-91 and the 92-94. My 90 does not have a orange/blue wire in the turn signal circuit that the 92 harness has. If the pinout is the same, the coloring should not matter and my signals should work. But they don't. That is why I am asking for help. Hectic was kind enough to scan the pages for the signal harness from the 89-91 and I already have the 92-94, so I will try to study this...I just suck at wiring and thought maybe someone could look at the two and help me out.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

those pics from Hectic aren't working. get me the pics and i'll analyze them tonight. i'll draw you pretty pictures on PPT if you want, to make it more straightforward. but as long as it even remotely resembles the 92+ setup, i'll have you covered.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

TS.GIF


ASCD.GIF


SMJ.GIF

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

oh boy. it's a wee bit more different than i expected. i'll figure it out for you tho.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Dude, you have no idea how much I would appreciate that! FWIW, I have both harnesses, so what ever needs doing, I got it covered.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

step 1) turn key to ON

steps 2-end) OK. on the hazard switch harness.. unplug it and check for battery voltage on pin 2 when the key is ON. if it's there, plug the switch back in and test the backside of the harness.. see if pin 1 has that voltage as well. if the hazard switch is off, then pin2 sends battery voltage to pin1.

from there, leave the hazard switch in and go to your combo flasher unit. unplug the harness and look for battery voltage on the red/green wire (at the edge of the row with just 3 open spots.. not the row with 4). if battery voltage exists there, plug the sucker back in and see if battery voltage exists at the red/blue and red wires. based on the diagram i'm assuming these are "control circuits" for some kind of relays that are inside the flasher unit. if a constant 12v passes through that wire, the relay activates the appropriate signal to engage in the flashing. if those wires test good while the harness is plugged in, test the same colored wires on the turn signal stalk harness. they should also show battery voltage. if they do, put the signal in L, and test continuity from red to black. then put it in R and test from red/blue to black.

tell me what doesn't turn out to be working properly and we'll see what seems to be the ultimate culprit here.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

I will check it out Saturday and let you know what I find. Thanks!

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

No need to do that just to confirm what the FSM already shows..

The problem is, the engine side of the SMJ is wired for a VE, the interior side is wired for a 89-91 VG. Hazard switch, combo flasher unit, and turn signal switch are wired differently and the wires that lead to the SMJ are different. The combo flasher unit is different in itself. You are going to need to swap the combo flasher unit, and rewire that along with the hazard switch and swap a couple wires here and there. I can see what you need to do, but it is kind of hard to explain in words. I'll try to get you an illustration showing which wires need to be switched, spliced into and cut after swapping the combo flasher and inserting an extra wire into the stock hazard switch connector.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Sweet, but just to be straight the wires going to the turn signal switch are 92VE. The wires going to the steering column were changed with the engine harness as they were snuggled nicely into the VE harness. But you are correct, everything on engine side of the SMJ is 92VE and everything else (save the all the wires going to the steering column) are 90VG.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

... oh.

in that case i agree, to switch to the VE flasher since it's a 3-wire unit as opposed to the more complicated old-VG style one. i'll do more digging.

the wire tests i proposed were to make sure that all the continuity was there and that his unit still worked.. but i wasn't paying crap for attention and didn't think to account for the fact that he has a hybrid system

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Dang mang, where you been? JK

Hell, it is hard for me to keep up with everything I have done.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Just by looking at the two schematics, it looks like I will have to instal thedoor lock timer and the combo unit from the 92VE. Ooooorrrr, move some wires around on the 90VG harness at the combo unit and then add the orange/blue wire from the 92VE. Does this sound about right?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

ehhhh not so fast. in the old system, there are 4 wires on the SMJ. On the later system.. just 3. that's because in the old system, the signal switch just grounds out the control lines for the flasher box. solid 12v all the time, and the approriate signal turns on when the control line is activated. on the later system, the flashing signal itself is sent through the switch, and the switch just directs the signal as to where to go. the flasher is not flashing all the time however.. just when current is passing through the bulbs. THAT's why the 2 systems are incompatible. the wiring is totally different.

yet you said your hazard lights work?
therefore.... take the VE flasher unit harness... and splice it into the harness of the other one as follows:
black to black
red/green to red/green
then... go to the turnsignal switch harness. cut the black wire. and now splice the orange/blue from the VE flasher into the end of the black wire that goes into the plug. cap off the other end of the black wire or find a nearby spot to ground it (the end that disappears into the wire bundles, that is)

now..
the signal switch, since you're already there. cut the other two wires as well. put the red wire from the plug to the pink/black wire located at SMJ B1. put the red/blue wire from the plug to the pink/blue wire located at SMJ A1. remember not to cut the SMJ wires.. use a 3way quicksplice. that's bc the hazard switch works and you want it to stay that way and the hazard switch comes through the main harness, straight down the SMJ and to your blinkers. you just want to tap your signal switch into this as well.

Benstoked review this also but i'm pretty sure this will work.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

sorry, cape, but youve already lost me. im okay at wiring diagrams, but all this cutting, splicing, and moving, im already confused. I think i could figure it out with your info, both diagrams and the car, but thats because i can't visualize this one( too many frikin-damn wires, running parralel, going hither and tither, and crossing the doodad with the thingy, etc, etc...)

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

I know what you mean....he lost me at "ehhh, not so fast." LOL

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

I should also add "like wiring harnesses" you have two different ones and it compounds the situation, what, 100x? maybe 1000000^100000x?

mike, was the swap worth it, money-wise? or if you had it to do over again, would you just buy a VE? (i know its been a learning experinece for me, so i know it must have been for you and mebe ghost?)

Wiking

Hey but some really great help here with the schematics! I have only the -94 schemas and missing the info for 92/93 GXE. Is there a place to...? Pls PM me if there is.

One has first to simplify the issues down to one ...eg. tapemark each wire associated with turn signals with plain text. Like: "Front/Right blink..."

Then next go and color this wire into the schematics you choose to play with. On the way cut and paste wiring one by one to actually reach your goal ... just one by one. One wire is simple - right? This bald CDC supercomputer man could do this, why not you? (the system is already in your car, well not in the blinks) See pic:
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...7_474_full.jpg




Yes... the first schema is a good simplified usable diagram ... but fitting also my -43 jeep (hand vawing -type
My Maxima has similarly digital technology 1/0 -blinks: on ... off ... on ... off ...etc. The Jeep has digital 'blink' also: hand up ... hand down ... hand ...etc

One may draw & compile this type of schema while building the new hybrid wiring... it is not necessary to follow the original confuzean maxima schema thoughts.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

it's raining today so i'll make you guys a pretty picture

did you get what i meant by the difference between the two systems? the 89-91 system is kindof relayed, and the 92-94 system is totally direct.

and i also just realized that =a looks like someone smiling and licking their lips, turned on its side.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

W T F?????
(it looks like the tongue is going in his nose, you goob!)

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

OK mike a few quick questions to make sure i get your exact setup

1. what color wires are coming out of your turn signal switch harness?
2. what color wire goes into D1 on your E-side of the SMJ?
3. What color wire goes into D1 on the M-side of your SMJ?
4. What color wires go into A6 and A11 on the E-side of your SMJ?
5. What color wires go into A6 and A11 on the M-side of your SMJ?

i know you probably think i'm dumb for asking those, but basically i'm trying to see what kind of mis-matches you have, since D1 is used on the later system and not on the earlier system (if it is used for anything on the early system, it's not turnsignal related), and the same for A6 and A11 on the later system. Depending on your answers, you will either be able to use existing SMJ wiring, or you may have to bypass some wires on the SMJ. I have a diagram of what I think your setup looks like, but the fact that the early system uses more SMJ wires than the later system causes me to have to clarify a few things.