Josh

iTrader: (5)

Ok, so last weekend I took my car in to get an alignment (I have a lifetime plan at Firestone) and was told that I had a bad ball joint and they couldn't do the alignment because of it. Considering I replaced the ball joints 4 weeks ago I find it hard to believe that one went bad. So my questions are:

1. Would a bad ball joint make the car unalignable? I had heard that wasn't the case on our cars.

2. What method do you guys use to test ball joints? I dont have any popping or vibrations at high speeds and no play in the wheel when it is off the ground.

Thanks.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

I think they are full of it. ask them to show you what is bad on the ball joint.
4 weeks is pretty quick for ANY ball joint to fail.

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

I'm assuming you greased the ball joint? I can't figure out how you tell a ball joint is bad other than the rubber boot being tort and it seizing up, or it just breaking in half or something. I agree, they're probably just full of it. I've had big - o tell me they couldn't do an alignment b/c my inner tie rod was bad, I checked it out and it was fine, so i brought it back and didn't say anything and they did the alignment no problem.

Wiking

1. the definition of [unalignable] is? ... one may 'always do the align job' - if there is free play, the wheels will wander but the alignment itself stays on the spot it was done. In this case alignment is about useless, depends... The loose joints need to be replaced, then new alignment.
Maxima ball joints are like any other vehicle.

2. Jack up, hands gripping the wheel, shaking, maybe using crowbar. Four eyes see better than two.

Generally joints last 15 yrs/200-300kmiles. Once mine were both broken in off-road like conditions (road closure & dirt track detour). Alignment may 'go' in one pavement corner bump...

jonmandude

iTrader: (1)

I went to get an alignement a week ago and heard the same thing "bad ball joint". The tech showed me the play in the joint. (I then went home and changed it) He said he could align it but it may not be acurate and that I should have it aligned after a new joint is installed. He was not trying to get more business out of me since he is a friend and suggested I fix it myself rather than spend the $50 bucks to have him do it.

drftking1

hey i work at firestone, and we hate lifetime alignments, most people abuse the hell out of them, like every oil chhange. i'd say it probaly is a cop out to say ball joints were bad, go to another firestone, maybe a tires plus(bridgestone owns them too)

Wiking

I would not call this abuse. Customers pay for smtg that is promised in BIG billboards on the street, I call em' dirty ruses for blondies...

Typically paying customers want what is promised. If this lure brings more sales revenue (than every oil change alignment checkup costs), then you are speaking of how your salary is being compiled. Pls be happy serving your customers -or- work to correct your sales dpt promises... DIY's like me wont peek in.

What I am sayin:, the ugly billboards are ok, customers 'abuse', fitting these too big promises, is ok.

Keep Out Note: Hell is THE real abuse place, related to drivers alignment, not wheels.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

it is a customer abuse.
if the alignment didn't go bad (which is highly unlikely to happen in 3000 miles) then there is no reason to realign a car.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

howabout annually? that sound more reasonable?

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

unless the car is exhibiting symptoms of the alignment being off, I don't see any reason to take it in. alignments tend to stay correct for a LONG time as long as they are done right to begin with.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

The whole problem with this "Lifetime Alignment" is that it is undefined. It's like Comcast (a large US ISP) promising "Unlimited Bandwidth" and then shutting off users who use too much bandwidth (Defined by them unofficially as the top 5% of users).

Firestone uses this "lifetime alignment" for several things.

1. Marketing to get people in the door. If the cost of a lifetime alignment (LA from now on) is little more then the cost of 2 alignments, why not get a lifetime as long as your getting an alignment.

2. A fairly inexpensive add on sale. Sell a set of four tires and an alignment or maybe a LA.

3. Once they come in for an alignment they got it on the rack to inspect for other defects that should be taken care of (read: and generate sales from).

What they're NOT looking to do is generate a lifetime of alignments that generate no money from car enthusiasts who aren't going to spend any money with them because they feel like they've paid for it all already even though this is the 15th alignment this year.

Seriously... I used to know guys that I autoxed with who abused the snot of the Firestone LA. They'd have it aligned every other week twice. Fridays or Saturdays to track spec and then Mondays back to street spec. One of two things would happen, either the firetone place would start to refuse or it just became too much of a bother.

The big problem I have with Firestone is they usually try to foist a bunch of uneeded repair work on you. They hire mechanics who are only slightly better then PepBoys mechanics who do real shoddy work and charge top dollar for it.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Never had the Firestone experience, but I got a 3-year alignment deal from NTB. It cost about 25% more than doing a single alignment, and has been well worth it.

Usually I'm on the floor when they are working on the car, I go in and inspect brake/fuel lines, boots, and look out for various other potential problems. As far as mechanics, the guys I've met seem alright, once you get the reflectors on the wheels, it all comes down to turning a nut and checking the computer readout... not much to screw up.

If someone gives you attitude just head over to a different location, these places are everywhere.

jonmandude

iTrader: (1)

This is something business have to accept when offering sales generating deals. It should balance out. Kind of like an "all you can eat" deal. Yes, some people can eat a lot, but most people do not eat much more, or even as much, as a regular meal, they just like to feel like they are getting a deal.

Lifetime alignment is one of those. Sure some will abuse it, but how many never get a second alignment? How many only get one or two more alignments? It is a deal where, on the average, they will get more out of people. Just on the increased cost of a lifetime, over a one time, alignment. Then when you throw in the added sales of being able to get cars up on the rack and "find" sales, it becomes worthwhile to deal with a few "abusers"

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

just like the "unlimited everything" phone plan my friend bought that is going to cost him an extra $25 per month... just that he can now abuse his minutes/texts/pics/TV/GPS/chirp/whatever-else but who knows if he'll ever exceed the limits of his old plan? probably won't. I know that it's all a state of mind. [whoa whoa. Why don't you take a good look at yourself and describe what you see,... and baby baby baby baby do you like it?]

drftking1

the problem with the abusers is when we have alot of work to get done and have to waste time for someone with a LA, we tie up a tech and tie up the rack. no one employed at my firestone likes LA's not even the service manager, etc. its a corperate thing and we cant not sell them, we cant not put up the signs we all want to light on fire. people will abuse anything thats free. like when we were FORCED to offer free brake inspections, one lady came in for just her free brake inspection and nothing else, she also just got her car inspected the week before and had new sticker...but i still had to pull all the wheels and get the specs on her brakes, etc. i was busy and pissed.

plus whomever said firestone techs are just a step above pepboys is a little wrong. we have 3 ASE master techs, i have 2 ASE's and inspection licences/emmisions etc. were a full service shop and we are more than competant.

p.s. it isnt smart to **** off the people who fix you cars =]

shoult

iTrader: (1)

Certifications just mean you studied well. It has nothing to do with knowledge or experience. And in almost all states any commercial shop is REQUIRED to have at least one mechanic certified in every service they offer. That doesn't mean they're good.

The only time I **** myself off is when I remove the skin from my knuckles or forget to bring the right tools or enough water down from my second story apartment.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

you can work on your car in your apt parkinglot omgihateyou i hope my new place lets me. </spaz>

well firestone dude fwiw i won't abuse my LA... just get one when i change out a suspension component. I plan to do my ENTIRE suspension at once so i may not need it, but then again, i'd want to realign it after doing axles and stuff too since that requires knuckle unbolted from something.

Wiking

All of ya - in wrong job, serving stupid customers?

You dont need to go there tomorrow. But if you go, remind uself - your company pays the salary. Whatever factory you ever stand in, your basic simple duty is to keep customers happy regardless of your feelings, so happy that they will tell their friends to swarm in... Attitude against customers is dangerous and will backfirestone.

Dhunterx

iTrader: (6)

I have the LA on my Maxima. I don't ABUSE it, but it does keep getting knocked off alignment a lot. It might last about a month before the car starts swerving to the right. I do plan on replacing my entire suspension, and having them align it once more in hopes that I don't have to take it there anymore.

Josh

iTrader: (5)

thanks for all of the information guys.

drftking1, it was already stated that it is the employees job to keep me as the paying customer coming back. I have bought full sets of tires from the firestone dealer more than once and this is only the second time I have every been in for an alignment.

I find it hard to believe that they do not have a record of my visits in their computer system and could not check whether or not I am "abusing" what I payed for. It also ticks me that they were ready to charge me 160$ for something that is not needed.

And I do not buy the line that people say it ties up time on the racks and takes away from their other customers. When I had the first appointment of the day(7 am) I waited over 2 hours on them for just an alignment. This time when I went back for my 10am appointment I was told it would be 90 minutes tops. I didn't get an phone call until an hour later saying that the car just got up on the rack and they found this bad balljoint.

Just a rant, but thanks for the input.

Wiking

Too often my/our inbred human greed bypasses the facts: cars never drive into 'firestone shops' - its the driver who takes his/her vehicle there. No matter what happens to the car, THE DRIVER pays all the salaries from boss to floor sweeper. He has to be the king, happy when he/she leaves (even if THE car was burned down). Even if my -or- customer situation is appalling, keeping customer happy has to be on focus. There Are Exceptions.

The stone-shop can give LA-service and still could clearly post reasonable limits. Reality check for employees: Up to a point LA is a lure keeping the shop in business. Still, keeping service staff fire-stoned around this unlimited free service is very stupid company policy. Will there be a change? I've never seen companies rethink such policies, no no big bosses: "be brave to grave, stick into s ht". No but vice versa: when you think companies like firestone, their quality etc complaints, its a rotten thread through the global company - keeping employers non satisfied = work quality down on every level. Only thing which may help, is a big humbling mirror on the shop floor.

Worst policy-example can be found in the air industry which thinks 'the cattle' paying the tickets are real nuisance: demanding free toilets and drinks every three hours... Oh boy, How much more fun it would be flying planes without the stinky flesh

This very same issue sits in here - in the end, its not nuts and bolts that keep people coming onto this forum. Its the satisfaction of the driver-reader. Only one of many aspects here, is the great information freely distributed. So please lets tolerate even those stinky euros using translation crutches... + Thank yall ppl as you really do