sleepyvg30e

iTrader: (1)

the bmw comparison isnt fair BMW cost 60,000 when it came out you might as well compare the maxima to a ferrari

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

heh, yeah. tho i have to hand it to the 4th gen camry... the brakes on that car (even drums) are freaking fantastic. I'm ALWAYS stopping short in my mom's car. and you know when you push the clutch in on a manual and put it in neutral you need less brake force to finish stopping, but even so, her brakes pwn mine.

I've never driven a V6 camry tho... the 4cyl NEEDS a m/t to survive though. merging off a loop-ramp is almost impossible during rush hour in my mom's car. too bad hers is auto...

and yea it feels like a boat... but perhaps b/c the suspension is even softer than the GXE Maxima, because, well, the Maxima was advertised and built as the 4DSC, SE or not.

but I just don't see how you can call it a 'true sports' sedan with 'serious power'. 300HP was 'serious power' in the early 90s. 160/190HP was above agerage, but not 'serious'. nowadays 300 is 'above average' and 500 is 'serious power'. And while the Maxima was the truEST sports sedan in its class by a long shot (and I totally agree it was), we really have to compare stock to stock... and note that a stock E36 2.5L was as quick in a straight line and quicker in the twisties, and sportier of a sports sedan. Yes, BMWs cost more.... but that's why they outclass the Maxima's handling. Besides by the time you modded a 3rd gen maxima (plus sticker price) to handle as well as a stock E36, you'd have spend the sticker price of the E36 anyhow, plus go through front tires quicker. Matt has $50k in his 3rd gen.... For which he could have had quite the new car. And if you went and spend the same amount on mods on the E36 as you just did on the Maxima..... the Bimmer would run circles around it, again.

To say it in a different way.... I'm not trying to say the 3rd Gen Maxima is a peasant by any standards... what it is, is a prophet... but it's not God.

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

VG = family sedan

VE5 = borderline sports sedan (190hp was decent for the early 90s), it's no M5 but it's a good compromise.

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

Also, E36s are tiiiny inside! I haven't been in a turd gen recently but the E36 is a HUGE step down from a 4th gen interior space wise.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

see. you get it

sleepyvg30e

iTrader: (1)

hah i knew it the e36 is just a 4 door coupe

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

I agree with this too. Sport(y) was the key choice word on my first post. I also agree that 190hp isn't "serious power." Hah. But maybe Caped's response wasn't for me.

burhan92SE

obviously Bimmer was ahead in everything of maxima....but not everyone could afford bimmer in 90s either....so they could buy maxima and have a feel of sports sedan and could afford too...well u get wat u pay....but i dont believe that since NISSAN GTR R35 came out...GTR outperformed many super cars in straight line and handling......viper,corvette,911,lambo,shelby,bimm er alpina etc etc all do this now

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

which one? and whatchu mean "wasn't for"... ie 'wasn't a response to something you said'?

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

noooo... it was a key choice word in my first post. I beat you to it.

Kountz430

Yeah you guys are right the camry does feel floaty compared to our third gens when first got my liscense i had a chance to drive both back to back, both auto's i just did'nt like the way the camry felt compared to the max. some years later when i work at the auction i got to do my comparisons. from the 94 camry accord taurus then i took it a step farther( was bored) and did the Q45 Acura RL Cadillic Seville Lexus LS400.Now outta all the cars i compared . The taurus was just all out boring but it did have some pep to it. the brakes felt like crap and the steering felt dull and lazy and the stereo forget it.it did'nt feel as refined as the other three. The Camry was cool it felt pretty good the ergonomics where pretty well appointed. the steering felt like it wanted to send feedback the turning radius bested the 3rd gen. brakes where spot on. the stereo was ok but needed help.didnt really seem like it had a sack but it was there in case you wanted let'em hang(powerwise).as for the accord i did like the ergonomics of it cup holders the sunroof button was placed just right.the steering felt loose at idle but tighten up at speed handle pretty good as well.the engine felt sluggish and these cars did'nt have very many miles on them either.The MAX felt nimble and stiff compare to the others it had the acceleration the handling the braking was right up there with the camry.i didnt like the sunroof button and no cup holder.head and leg room was pretty descent in two the max an the camry the taurus and the accord bested them both in the leg room area
performance wise the max felt like everything was there. it felt ready to roll.so let keep it real we cant compare the max and no disrespect to anyone but we cant compare the max to an M5 or an M3 cause its thoroughly out classed. but compared to the cars in its class it was and still is the leader of the pack.for the Q45 comparison thats later

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

yeah the camry sure does turn tighter. 3rd/4th gen both (those being from 1992 to like 2001). i like the maxima's cluster alot more. except i'd have liked a position indicator for a/t. but i'm swapped now so it doesn't matter anymore. still can't find a good seat position in the max tho.... no matter how i adjust it, i get lactic acid buildup in my right leg, and is starts to cramp. i think i should just get a low racing seat so i can stretch out some without being unable to reach the wheel.. the center console and door armrest and shifter and stuff are so low on the maxima that a lower seating position would kick ***. and make it feel sportier at the same time... as well as making the gauge cluster more in your line of sight... ie not looking down as far to see your speed.

Komete

I would classify it as a FWD sports sedan. If the 3rd gen would have been a RWD it wouldn't even be a question. With the stiffness of the suspention and if a little of that weight could have been shifted to the back it would have really been a great handler.

However, You could compare it to any other FWD car of that year and you'd come back with man this Max is sporty.

Hrmmm going off topic sorta but you guys are giving me a lot to think about. I have a 240sx that I DD, but this year I have to drop two of my children off at school each day and I need a sedan. I'm trying to decide if I should get a 3rd gen max or 4th.

I've driven a 3rd gen over 10 years ago and while I would not put the handling anywhere near my 240 I could see myself pleased with my daily commute. I would be upgrading the suspension and going turbo. It's hard to go back to driving a N/A car.

4th gen serves my family needs better, little roomier, but I can't help but think a 3rd gen will serve my personal performance needs better.

Then there are these horror stories I hear about 3rd gens tranny's not holding up to boost. The goal will be around 10psi+/- 325hp and 300+ torque. What to do what to do?

I need to start a post.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

well the VE is really the sporty engine in the 3rd gen.... but not usually the prime choice for turbo. n/a, the VE is what sets the 3rd gen apart from everything else in its class, as touched on in this thread. While not the typical choice to turbo, it can be done, OR you can turbo a VG (parts availability +1) and use a VE manual tranny which will hold up to the abuse fairly well. VG manual will be OK to just won't have LSD. wouldn't try boost on a VG auto, and dunno about the VE's auto (but VE auto trans has never been put on a VG before. it can theoretically be done... just nobody has ever truly tried.)

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

doesn't have serious power by any means, but when modded a bit is peppy and can scoot. The chassis takes suspension mods well and it's very fun to throw around into the twisties. It's fun to drive at the edge and is surprisingly agile and can leave behind many other cars especially if it's a 5spd and you know your car well.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

3rd gen VG tranny's don't hold up to light modding N/A. It's the unfortunate weak link .... very weak.

I had one, a VG 5spd SE, and on about the 4th rebuild, I had a shop put more stout gears in it, and I changed to Fidanza flywheel and Exedy clutch.

I haven't had a VE yet, but I may get one. I miss my 3rd gen. There was just something about it.

burhan92SE

u donno wat my situation yet...i have VE and i donoo i don have VE tranny its AUTO VG tranny as far i think...i havnt started to work on it yet lil busy...but ya i got some serious issues here....someone really messed up this 3rd gen VE...before me....
http://forums.maxima.org/3rd-generat...l-problem.html

burhan92SE

i gotta agree with ya...its FWD and we should compare it to FWD cars...not RWD...theres alot of differences....

EDIT:
1989–1994

The Maxima was redesigned in 1989 as the J30 model. This is the third generation of the Maxima. It was called the '4DSC' by Nissan (4-Door Sports Car) and even had a window decal showing this. It now featured a 160hp (119kW) 3.0L V6, with a 190hp VE30DE engine available starting in 1992. The VG30E was a unit that had been used in the previous line of Maxima, as well as the second-generation Nissan 300ZX. In the United States, the VG30E engine was used on all 1989-1994 GXE models, and the 1989-1991 SE models.
The VE30DE engine, plus a limited-slip differential, became standard on the SE models in 1992. The SE models can be further distinguished from the GXE by their white-faced gauges, twisted spoke turbine wheels, firmer sport suspensions, and optional 5-speed manual transmissions, which weren't offered on the GXE models after 1992. The automatic transmission on all GXE's and optional on SE's was an innovative compact unit from Jatco, featuring four-speed electronic control and adaptive 'sport' and 'comfort' modes that shift at different points.
During this year, the Maxima was first introduced to the UK market. It was made available as a choice of three models, the 3.0, 3.0S and 3.0SE. All options were available with an automatic transmission only.
The Maxima SE was on Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list for 1990.
Unlike later models, the J30 had an independent rear suspension that was absent from the Maxima until the 2004 models.
By many Maxima enthusiasts, the J30 model is considered to be the best looking Maxima to date.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

why restrict to comparison to FWD? that's like asking if Tom Brady is a truly great quarterback but then saying you can't compare him to Favre or Montana or Marino..... If he can't stand up to the ranks of ALL quarterbacks, then he can't be TRULY great. Thus, if it can't stand up to the likes of an RWD sports sedan, then it cannot be a TRUE sports sedan.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

There are physical traits of FWD and RWD that do not overlap. In ways it is unfair to compare the two setups.

However I agree that if we are going to discuss sport sedans, FWD or RWD is open game for criticism and comparison. If Nissan declares, boldly, "4DSC," then they need to live up to that.

As a sports sedan, the 3rd gen is no BMW. Let's not kid ourselves. It loosely copied BMW's offering at the time. And did a damn good job. When the suspension is modded, as I said earlier, the 3rd gen is just fantastic, probably similar in feeling to the stock BMW in that class, the caveat being FWD v RWD.

I would call it, to be fair, a "sporty sedan." It's not quite a "sports sedan" as stock. But when you modify the suspension in particular there is no question about it. You've pushed it into becoming a sports sedan. Add Fidanza flywheel, Stg 1 clutch, drop and stiffen the suspension ... you are creating a sports car. You're pickup where where Nissan left off. I've done it before. The 3rd gen sings a sweet song when you tweak it right.

sleepyvg30e

iTrader: (1)

hey check this out i always thought RWD was fully superior to FWD in everything except traction turns out not only is RWD more prone to fishtailing but it actually produces 2% less hp from the engine to the road compared with FWD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear-wh...#Disadvantages

other than weight distribution i cant find a solid reason for RWD

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

then you CLEARLY have much more research to do. the car rocks back under acceleration. FWD thus loses drive-wheel grip. RWD gains it. In RWD you have all 4 tires under equal load in terms of steering/driving, whether than having 2 tires do all the work and the other 2 just roll. And you can have better brake balance in RWD also. Sure it's a little less efficient due to having more components, but in terms of handling in the hands of an experienced driver, RWD wins (not to mention it's more fun). Otherwise NASCAR, IHRA, NHRA, Formula 1, IRL, and a bunch of other racing leagues would use FWD instead of RWD. Lawn tractors, bicycles, motorcycles, and gokarts would also be FWD then, wouldn't they, if FWD is so much better?

FWD only wins when you have rain/grease on the road, or if you have lost all control of the car, or for getting every last mile out of a tank of gas. But honestly if i'm going to crash into a tree i'd rather oversteer and hit it rear-first and pull further into my seat, than understeer and hit it head on, smash my head into my steering wheel, and die. Ionno maybe that's just me.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

and FWD is used mainly because it's simply cheaper to produce in the factory and it saves cabin space. Those are the main reasons why it's used.

sleepyvg30e

iTrader: (1)

this is what i was talking about the daily driver benefits the only way i see RWD being superior is on flat even dry roads with no passengers or cargo in otherwords racing conditions

Torgus

iTrader: (10)

what exactly was adj. on the tranny?
what exactly was adj. on the suspension?

vernk

I would say that the Maxima is a car for a fun family driving. As far as the gen that I like it goes something like this

1gen= RWD
2gen= small, independent rear, changeable suspension, love the way they look
3gen=still looks ok, kinda small, one of the best intakes on a VG as for the VE I'm not a big fan it's just a experimental motor to make the transition from the VG to the VQ and not used in any other nissan.
4gen+ fail due to suspension, size, looks, and rims (first gen to come with steelies) nissan skimping on the sport side trying to keep sales up, price down and the demand for bigger cars.

now keep in mind this is from a guy that loves small cars and will never have kids. I never would have looked at a maxima due to the 4 doors but needed a car once and found a 87 maxima cheep and I was well it cant be to bad it's a nissan, and fell in love with it, but still love a s110 or s12 over a u11 or j30.

as far as RWD or FWD I'll take a RWD for all driving conditions, it's more predictable but if you know how to drive you can slid the back end of a FWD around it just takes a quick brake foot and a snap of the wheel.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

um.... no... not really. I've DD'd both and the RWD was alot more comfortable to drive just because of how it behaves in normal situations. Have you ever even driven a RWD car? Or are you talking out your youknowwhat?

and if RWD is only good for "racing" and not good for passengers and comfort....
why are Lexus (minus the ENTRY model, the ES) all RWD, why are all BMWs RWD, why are all Mercedes RWD, why are Rolls Royces RWD, why are Maseratis RWD, why are Bentleys RWD, why are all current Infinitis RWD, why are Maybachs RWD, why are Jaguars RWD, why are Crown Victorias RWD, why is the new Hyundai Genesis RWD, why did they replace the FWD Intrepid with a RWD Charger? I'm sorry did I blow your mind? Yes, that just happened.

bLiNg_ThEoRy

From the numbers, that may be true, but the VG, while not as powerful an engine as the VE, has the best potential for modding since its block is stronger than that of the VE.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

Even so I don't see why it matters.... the VE can still take one hell of a beating, and I seriously doubt anyone will ever make enough power on a VE to break the block. Same with a FWD VQ... sure, it's aluminum, but nobody is ever going to max it out. Nobody will ever make a 1000HP VG Maxima, so the fact that the VG is more durable, which it is, doesn't actually matter at all.

bLiNg_ThEoRy

VG love here, bro! LOL. I may be a wee bit biased. haha

sleepyvg30e

iTrader: (1)

Lack of weight shifting will limit the acceleration of a front-wheel drive vehicle. During heavy acceleration, weight is placed on the rear, or driving wheels, which improves traction. This is the main reason why nearly all racing cars are rear-wheel drive. However, since front-wheel drive cars have the weight of the engine over the driving wheels, the problem only applies in extreme conditions. The weight shifting and weight distribution of rear wheel drive cars cause oversteer and the related problem of fishtailing. On snow, ice, and sand, rear-wheel drive loses its traction advantage to front or all-wheel drive vehicles which have greater weight on the driven wheels.

im stickin with my statement unless you want a competition racer FWD is best for any DD and who buys a 4 door sedan for serious competition anyway

300zmax

sporty family sedan. good car for the money, and has a lot of potential as demonstrated by this forum.

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

I cringe reading some of the responses on these f*cking newb threads. I don't even consider myself much more than a n00b. But some of these responses are just so ignorant it blows my mind. Can't anyone use common sense anymore? It's ridiculous. Then, all of these threads just turn into a big, steamy, chunky, nutty pile of VG vs. VE ****. People who haven't even SAT in a VE come on here and talk trash and have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Saying the only benefits of RWD would be for full out race car's is beyond comprehension. It's no wonder most of the OG's never come around here anymore.

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

So the VE was an experimental motor to make the transition from the VG to VQ huh? Did you even wonder if Nissan was making this marvelous engine for the 1995 Model release if the entire rest of the car went to crap? The VE was most likely discontinued due to Nissan going bankrupt and the price of Iron going up such a substantial amount, the VE is miles ahead of both the entry VQ and VG30E. The only problem with it was that variable timing was in it's baby stages for ALL car manufacturers and that is the only faulty point of the engine I can think of. There are plenty of 250k+ on stock VTC VE's on here, Greeny has 310k+ with rebuilt VTC's. The VG has to have it's timing belt replaced every 60-80k miles too, so be sure to add that to the price of maintenance costs for the VG. The entry VQ didn't implement VTC's, Variable Intake Manifolds, or an iron block. I'm not saying that both the VG AND VQ aren't fabulous engine's.... BUT, the VE wasn't just a mere "filler" engine. Also, the VG has always had problems with their auto's, while the VQ uses the same internals stolen from the VE produced 4 years ealier.

Show me a VG/VE with over 600HP please. They're both Iron block.

Chhhhyyyaaaaabrawh

The Auto VG and VE's had auto's with adjustable shift points, "Comfort, Auto, and Power" so under partial throttle you could have it shift best fit for your driving conditions.

Some of the Canadian Brougham GXE's had a "sonar suspension." They also had auto climate control, a heads up display, and digital instrumental gauges.

Gunther

I think my favorite part of the 3rd gen is visibility. Blind spots are small, pillars are narrow, and the rear view mirror doesn't get in the way when driving around town. That's my biggest gripe with most cars [being 6'5"]

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

ionno dude.... I've never bashed a VE in my life. I don't have to have sat in one to know about what it would feel like. But even thus, I have sat in one, and it was great. Maybe the fact that I have broken motor mounts and a bent crank snout make me feel like my VG isn't as good as maybe it could be, but even so I'd feel alot better having a 10+CR DOHC under the hood.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

i wish I were 6'5" then! i'm 5'10" and that 7 inches must make a real difference b/c i often get a blindpot on my driverside a pillar.

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

Hah, I'm not talking about you. You're the only one with enough patience to rationalize this thread; most threads.

bLiNg_ThEoRy

I'm definitely not bashing either VG or VE. You won't find another V6 in any other car with only 160 horses that will do what a VG can and you won't find another V6 with only 190 horses that will do what a VE can. I'm a Nissan fan and I like everything made by Nissan.

Now... as for this Family Sedan or Sports Sedan thing... I will go with what another member said a few posts up. Sporting family sedan would work for some reason. Personally, What people have to keep in mind is that the Maxima was made as a more sporting alternative to the Camry and Accord at the time. That's why it had the tighter suspension and a V6 engine whereas the other two only had 4 cylinders at the time. Maximas were made to be driven hard and that's why they shared engines with the 300Z. There aren't many cars that pull so hard all the way to redline without being so eager to shift to a higher gear. These cars are awesome for what they were created to be and then some!

sleepyvg30e

iTrader: (1)

i was just saying that we should include RWD cars in this comparison because theyre not that huge of a improvement that we should consider them a different class entirely
there actually were alot of VG blocks used in race cars that hit 1000hp i saw one that peaked at 1500
same height as me dude these midgets just dont know how lucky they are