AzureblueZ

My 94 Maxima GXE threw a check engine light today. I checked codes and came up with a code 51, "Fuel injector signal circuit fault." I did some research here on the org and it sounds like it's either a dirty/fault harness or the injector itself.

Here is my question:

Should I buy the new injector directly from Nissan or can I get away with buying it at my local autoparts store (like Advanced Auto, etc.)?

Nissan wants $149 for a new one.

Thanks for any advice!

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

Buy from Internetautomar; he's a member on this forum. I personally have dealt with him and the prices are good, shipping is quick, and has a surplus of new parts specifically for 1989-1994 3rd Gen Maxima's. My cousin just got a fuel injector from him and it was perfect, as was the knock sensor I got.

I would stay away from remanufactured injectors as they usually fail not long after you replace it.

http://internetautosupply.com/catalog/

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

there is no simple way to answer it.
some parts places have the OEM reboxed, which is fine. Some have aftermarket Chinese(?) boxed and aren't worth a dam.
Either GO OEM or Bosch which is OEM anyhow.
you will need to find out what color dot is on your injector in any case before you order

AzureblueZ

Thanks guys - I really appreciate it. This is exactly what I was looking for. I'll check out which color dot I need and go from there. The org rules

AzureblueZ

I am considering ordering from your site as you have a good reputation here on the org.

Do I need to pull out an entire injector out to determine which color dot is on the injector or can I simply pull off one of the electrical connectors on the fuel injector to tell?

Also, where can a guy get the "fuel hose" that everyone has mentioned replacing in the process?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

buyfromhim.jpg... he's starving right now.

i've heard people getting the rubber rail hoses from the dealer for widely varying prices tho. and no the dot should be on the plug area.

AzureblueZ

I pulled up this page in the fiche and it shows all the fuel hoses. Can anyone point out the one (or ones) that I would need?

http://carfiche.com/fiche009/j30/2/f07.gif (click resulting picture for zoom)

Thanks!

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

17528U/V

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

You don't really even need to remove the rail to change the injector mind you. While I was doing my swap I had to take them all off to get to the knock sensor, but my hoses weren't cracked and didn't need to be replaced. You may be better off just completely leaving the hoses intact and just removing the injector from the rail with some vice grips.

edit: Just saw you had a VG, ignore the knock sensor part.... we just replaced my Cousins' #3 plug without removing the hoses though.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

you should find the dot on the electrical connector portion.
BTW the injector itself (plastic part) should be pink.

the hose is usually available by just matching it up at the local auto part store. even AZ should be able to get it right.

1993-VG30E-GXE

I replaced both - and you don't need the rip off prices from the dealer - it's just regular fuel injector hose. It cost me 2 bucks per foot or 1.50 a foot.

Looking at the car from the front----------

FUEL INJECTOR TUBE ASSEMBLY (LEFT HOSE)
5/16" Fuel Injection Hose, 10.7cm Length

FUEL INJECTOR TUBE ASSEMBLY (RIGHT HOSE)
5/16" Fuel Injection Hose, 7cm Length

You'll also need 2 new fuel injection clamps for each hose SAE #6 (13mm-14mm)

All my hoses were in bad condition so I had to replace all of them in the engine bay...but for the price, since you have access, I would probably replace the fuel send and return lines as well, if they look bad.

AzureblueZ

THANK YOU everyone for all of your help and support. The org rules! I am always learning so much with each new repair that comes up with my 94 Max. As it turns out the fuel injector issue cleared up on it's own on Friday. I know, however, that it will only be a matter of time before that injector gives up the ghost. For now I am waiting to do any work as I have a child on the way and money is tight but I will be replacing it in the near future. Faster if it starts failing again!

Thank you everyone for all of the info. I will definitely replace the hoses while I am in if it is that cheap/easy to get the hose that I will need.

On further research it appears that two of my six injectors have been replaced in the past. I can tell by the color of the injectors themselves. Of course the two were both on the "easy" side (not under the intake).

Thanks again!

AzureblueZ

I'm having some trouble locating the "green" or "yellow" dot to determine which injector I would need to do the injector replacement. I took some pictures of my injector and harness for clarification. It's probably something super-simple I'm just missing. Perhaps the "dot" is covered in grime?

Pictures:

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internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

the dot should be on the injector itself, the side of the electrical connector that has no protrusions on it.

AzureblueZ

So here?

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I tried to get a look at that area but it is flush with the intake. Do I have to remove the injector from the rail before I can see it?

Sorry for all of the questions. I have a sneaking suspicion that the injector that was giving me trouble will start failing again sometime soon and I want to be ready!

Thanks again...you the man!!

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

stick a piece of foil beind it as a mirror?

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

yes that is where the dot is / should be. All the injectors on the car should have the same color dot on them. Red top injectors don't have dots though.

AzureblueZ

Cool, thanks man

As I mentioned to you before strangely enough two of my four injectors are red-top injectors. They are obviously replacements for failed injectors the previous owner had to deal with. From what I have read here they are only supposed to go on the VE's with the VE30DE. I haven't had any idle/running problems whatsoever while I've owned the car with the exception of this most recent issue with one of the originals. Perhaps the red tops will work in the VG's? Food for thought anyway.

I think I am going to try that 8)

AzureblueZ

One last question: is it a dot or a "strip" of color? I know dot was said but from what very little I could gleam without fully removing one of the fuel injectors there appears to be a green "strip." It may just look like a strip, however, because I could not get a good angle on it. Thanks for any info

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

Why not just ohm out a good injector that is working and look at the dot on it?

AzureblueZ

I'm still an injector n00b, learning a lot. Are you saying that the difference between the yellow and green dot injectors is the amount of electrical resistance?



<---- Me while I am still learning about fuel injectors

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

I'm basically saying that if you have an injector in your car that is working as it should, not leaking, has the right electrical impedance, and your cylinder is firing normally. (And you can see the dot) Why not just get another just like it.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

he can't see the dot. maybe some other injector would have better visibility, perhaps a front one or something, but that's the issue he's having.

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

I know, but why not just look at a different injector that is working where he can see the dot? That is what I was suggesting.

AzureblueZ

I picked the one I thought would have the best visibility from the four I have to choose from. The original injectors are the front middle injector and all three injectors under the intake. I can just about make out some green down low on the injector so I'm almost willing to gamble with green when the time comes. I suppose I could always return and repurchase but I hate to do that

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

I'm curious about these red vg injectors???

Any word on these Brian???

AzureblueZ

I can get pictures if needed...

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Yes if you would please.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

My gut is telling me someone just grabbed used injectors out of a 3rd gen and stuck them in without regard to the flow rate being different.
BUT I could be wrong. I have not seen any 3rd gen with red tops other than the VE. All VGs in the third gen are supposed to be pink top.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

originally it was dot, but 14 years later it could just be a speck.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Well if they will actually fit into the vg rail, than i may do a little experimenting with my used set of ve injectors.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

it'll run rich tho.... won't it?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

I don't know

It all depends which part of the injection system controls the amount of fuel the injector injects. if it's all in the injector, then yes it would imo run rich. but if the ecu control the pulse timing to control the amount of fuel injected, or the fuel pressure regulator or whatever controls the amount of fuel injected, then it shouldn't run rich.

I'd say it's most likely the injector that controls this, but it may be worth the effort to swap one or two into the vg just to see if they will perform like the oem injector, simply because the VE/VQ injectors are considerably more long lived vs. the vg injectors.

I would like to see via pictures/part#'s if the injectors in AzureblueZ's vg are indeed ve injectors before going through all the trouble.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

my estimate is that since i've heard VE has a higher flowrate... ECU won't know that... ECU won't know that they are mismatched... it may detect an overall rich condition so when it leans it out a little, those 2 will be a hair rich still, and the other 4 will be a hair lean, so that the 02 overall says "we're OK"

AzureblueZ

I should be able to get some good pictures on my lunch hour (at work as usual today). I'll post some good macro pictures up. It should be sometime around 2P CST.



In the z31 (84-89 300zx) world there are some that have run z31 turbo injectors (which have a higher flow rating) in the non-turbo z31 simply because that's what they had available at the time. There are also a lot of the turbo guys that throw in massive flowing injectors to safeguard against running lean. Utilizing the MAF (I believe?) the ECU determines how much air is coming in and it then signals the fuel injector to match it with the proper amount of fuel. As the boost is turned up, it has to compensate the extra air with extra fuel. This all leads me to believe that the ECU does control and provides fuel so long as the injector has a high enough flow rating to keep up and fits the rail of course.

I use a lot of z31 analogies because that is "where I come from" but I believe them to be valid because owning both I have realized that the Maxima is just a 300zx (z31) in four-door disguise!! They share almost everything under the hood.

AzureblueZ

I haven't had any noticeable fuel or idle issues. She actually idles like a dream....so smooth

If indeed it is not providing the same amount of fuel on the red top injectors that are in my VG it must be at a level that is imperceptible. I would definitely pick up on any significant rich/lean running conditions.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

hmmm ..Looks like i am off to my nissan dealership for some new injector O'rings, and a new experiment..

AzureblueZ

I'll have pictures for you after lunch

1993-VG30E-GXE

azure were you able to position a small mirror behind the dot to see it? I was thinking one of those dental type ones they use in your mouth for inspection. Would it fit?

Stupid me, when I had the intake off I cleaned all the injector connectors and was looking right at the dots, but I DIDN"T WRITE IT DOWN...so dumb.

So now I can't buy it in advance if I need it.

AzureblueZ

I have not had any luck yet in determining what dot color it is. I tried using some tinfoil, which did fit, but it was reflective and clear enough to make any determinations. You actually have a really good idea with a dental type mirror but I'm not sure where you could get one of those for cheap ?

Jury is still out on that for now.

If I find something out I'll post it up here!