3rd gen laptop tune/consult fabrication complete (video teaser)
09-03-2008, 08:34 AM
#1
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3rd gen laptop tune/consult fabrication complete (video teaser)
Oy, this was no plug and play task. The OBDI Nissan consult port is entirely different from the interface I had to fabricate, which was a 14 pin connector on one end that connects to the laptop via USB on the other. The Nissan consult plug wiring colors also don't stay consistent from the ECU to the original Nissan consult, so I had to figure out on the ECU end what wires were sending data for CLK, (Tx)Transmit, (Rx) Receive. It was painful. The wires coming off the ecu is a plate of spaghetti that doesn't go down easy! The closest thing to this really is a $2199 piggyback unit AEM makes. I had a daughterboard fitted to my ECU by NIStune that allows for on the fly programming and can be loaded with maps at will, as opposed to ECU's found by the likes of JWT that are programmed once and you're stuck with the configuration you buy.
Had to make a little celebration video for it -- it's ALIVE!
Click --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD9NRQR88-0
Had to make a little celebration video for it -- it's ALIVE!
Click --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD9NRQR88-0
09-03-2008, 09:57 AM
#3
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Cool, something I've been thinking about doing too, glad to know its possible. I have a embedded computer (Via Artigo System Builder Kit) installed in my Maxima, with a xenarc x-7000 in-dash headunit, which I think would be just great to have for in-car tuning, and for all the extra guages like air flow etc.
What all did you need to do to get this to work with your Maxima?
Chalzor
What all did you need to do to get this to work with your Maxima?
Chalzor
09-03-2008, 10:50 AM
#4
This is truly neat. Too bad alot of the older members from back in the day aren't around much anymore to see this
How much did it cost you to have NIStune fit the daughter board?
Also what are your plans? Are you going boost or just wanted a programmable ECU?
How much did it cost you to have NIStune fit the daughter board?
Also what are your plans? Are you going boost or just wanted a programmable ECU?
09-03-2008, 02:30 PM
#6
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No boost mang. I think the VG is best left for turboing. And as for spraying, I dunno, I just figure spraying is the easy way out. Something that can be done on any car. And I mean no offense to my friends who spray, but it's just not my bag - for the time being anyway. The kid in me will likely want to try it sometime down the road though.
As for cost, I don't mean to withhold info, but I think the cost of the project for me will differ to what it will cost others, because this was the first VE30DE that NIStune/PLMS has worked on, so we worked together on this. There were a good couple hundred emails between us during the process.
That said, I don't think what I paid will be hugely lower than what others that follow might pay. Eventually, I'll direct the NIStune founder to this board/thread and let him put a price on it and answer questions.
Thanks Chris. Hey did you get the 4DSC decals yet? I sent another batch to you, albeit a little slowly on my part. Let me know if/when they arrive(d).
... I'll try and post more images/video as I uncover the software more thoroughly, create maps, etc.
I still have yet to install the wideband o2 sensor, Aaron's NWP phenolic intake spacers, and an electric exhaust cutout. Then there's actually testing it at the track, possibly dyno as well, which should provide real answers as to how effective this all is - if at all ha!
Cheers - thanks for your support.
09-03-2008, 03:56 PM
#7
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As for cost, I don't mean to withhold info, but I think the cost of the project for me will differ to what it will cost others, because this was the first VE30DE that NIStune/PLMS has worked on, so we worked together on this. There were a good couple hundred emails between us during the process.
That said, I don't think what I paid will be hugely lower than what others that follow might pay. Eventually, I'll direct the NIStune founder to this board/thread and let him put a price on it and answer questions.
That said, I don't think what I paid will be hugely lower than what others that follow might pay. Eventually, I'll direct the NIStune founder to this board/thread and let him put a price on it and answer questions.
Chalzor
09-03-2008, 04:14 PM
#8
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The daughterboard installation to the VG ECU wouldn't be the problem, it's determining if you have the black (12 pin) Nissan consult in your car, or grey (14 pin) consult.
If you have the grey your a step closer. However, then it has to be determined if the grey (female) stock consult in the car speaks the same language as the (male) USB interface.
In other words, does the data the stock consult plug send correspond to the correct pins on the serial USB interface?
If it's been tested on a North American VG with a grey consult, then it could end up being plug & play.
If you have the grey your a step closer. However, then it has to be determined if the grey (female) stock consult in the car speaks the same language as the (male) USB interface.
In other words, does the data the stock consult plug send correspond to the correct pins on the serial USB interface?
If it's been tested on a North American VG with a grey consult, then it could end up being plug & play.
09-03-2008, 05:25 PM
#9
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The daughterboard installation to the VG ECU wouldn't be the problem, it's determining if you have the black (12 pin) Nissan consult in your car, or grey (14 pin) consult.
If you have the grey your a step closer. However, then it has to be determined if the grey (female) stock consult in the car speaks the same language as the (male) USB interface.
In other words, does the data the stock consult plug send correspond to the correct pins on the serial USB interface?
If it's been tested on a North American VG with a grey consult, then it could end up being plug & play.
If you have the grey your a step closer. However, then it has to be determined if the grey (female) stock consult in the car speaks the same language as the (male) USB interface.
In other words, does the data the stock consult plug send correspond to the correct pins on the serial USB interface?
If it's been tested on a North American VG with a grey consult, then it could end up being plug & play.
09-03-2008, 07:52 PM
#11
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No black 12 pin only = SOL if you aren't prepared to cry and curse like I did lol, but it's doable. Actually... now that the groundwork is laid you wouldn't have nearly the same headaches I did with it. You'd just have to be prepared to do a little surgery on your car.
09-03-2008, 07:55 PM
#12
surgery? like replacing the whole of the electrical system with a 14-pin harness structure and ECU?
09-03-2008, 09:50 PM
#13
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I was celebrating having finally found the wires in the harness that are required to make a new consult, and in doing so, you wouldn't have to deal with tracing the functions of the wires on the ECU harness - it's been done.
09-04-2008, 05:31 AM
#14
Good work on getting it running!!!!
so ummm, lemme take a stab at it from glancing over the FSM for a few minutes.... these 3 pins it?
I'll take a wild guess and say 21 and 22 are Tx, Rx and 31 is CLK. if those are the right 3 pins, it would be easy to figure out from there.. one will be a constant pulse- should show up on a frequency counter, and the other two are a trial and error with a serial connector. can probably wire straight into pin 2 of a DB-9 connector and plug into your serial port and watch gibberish stream out of it....
22- P
21- OR
31- LG
Tell me if I'm even in the ballpark..........
so ummm, lemme take a stab at it from glancing over the FSM for a few minutes.... these 3 pins it?
I'll take a wild guess and say 21 and 22 are Tx, Rx and 31 is CLK. if those are the right 3 pins, it would be easy to figure out from there.. one will be a constant pulse- should show up on a frequency counter, and the other two are a trial and error with a serial connector. can probably wire straight into pin 2 of a DB-9 connector and plug into your serial port and watch gibberish stream out of it....
22- P
21- OR
31- LG
Tell me if I'm even in the ballpark..........
Last edited by Matt93SE; 09-04-2008 at 05:39 AM.
09-04-2008, 07:01 PM
#15
I built one for myself a couple years ago and ended up buying another one from a hybridka forum member so I could have a "cleaner" unit.
09-04-2008, 09:26 PM
#16
Just got Nistune about month ago. Have 91 VG30E total for me was just under 500 to ship out and have Nistune install it all. Took about 2 weeks there and back. Im using mine to to tune for the 370cc injectors and 15psi which will be fun upgrade from the apexi unit. Um I have had mine to connect once but since been having problems what plug is this you are talking about?
09-04-2008, 09:29 PM
#17
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... but you did get the wire colors right Matt (ya freakin' noob!).
What held the process up for me and caused much frustration were little things like discovering I had the right lines all along, but learned the data lines in particular couldn't be 'tapped' with connectors. It was apparently compromising the data steam and the consult wasn't reading the flow. So I was going back over the wiring diagrams thinking I had the wrong lines and was banging my head on the wall... until I got brave and just cut the little buggers and made a direct link.
Power and ground couldn't be cut, as they serve other functions, but the data lines could.
One of my diagrams shows the 'franken consult'
What held the process up for me and caused much frustration were little things like discovering I had the right lines all along, but learned the data lines in particular couldn't be 'tapped' with connectors. It was apparently compromising the data steam and the consult wasn't reading the flow. So I was going back over the wiring diagrams thinking I had the wrong lines and was banging my head on the wall... until I got brave and just cut the little buggers and made a direct link.
Power and ground couldn't be cut, as they serve other functions, but the data lines could.
One of my diagrams shows the 'franken consult'
09-04-2008, 09:43 PM
#18
... but you did get the wire colors right Matt (ya freakin' noob!).
What held the process up for me and caused much frustration were little things like discovering I had the right lines all along, but learned the data lines in particular couldn't be 'tapped' with connectors. It was apparently compromising the data steam and the consult wasn't reading the flow. So I was going back over the wiring diagrams thinking I had the wrong lines and was banging my head on the wall... until I got brave and just cut the little buggers and made a direct link.
Power and ground couldn't be cut, as they serve other functions, but the data lines could.
One of my diagrams shows the 'franken consult'
What held the process up for me and caused much frustration were little things like discovering I had the right lines all along, but learned the data lines in particular couldn't be 'tapped' with connectors. It was apparently compromising the data steam and the consult wasn't reading the flow. So I was going back over the wiring diagrams thinking I had the wrong lines and was banging my head on the wall... until I got brave and just cut the little buggers and made a direct link.
Power and ground couldn't be cut, as they serve other functions, but the data lines could.
One of my diagrams shows the 'franken consult'
lanedrifter, thanks for the clarification on the RS232 port. I'm quite familiar with the MAX232 drivers- we use them all the time at work in our instrumentation. rather finicky little buggars, especially if you're using a cable with high inductance over more than 50 ft or so. not an issue in the Maxima, but it is with our stuff. we usually wind up converting to RS422.... but that's off the subject.
I hadn't seen anyone actually use the inverted 12V crapola. It doesn't surprise me given the car's abundance of 12V 'logic' and equipment, and I figure they also did it to keep Joe-the-Grease-Monkey-turned-Tuner from fabbing up his own programs for cheaper than the $$$$$ CONSULT unit.
Either way, even with the inverted 12V, you should still see gibberish on the screen with a terminal program hooked to the Tx wire and GND . whether it's inverted or not doesn't mean anything- it's still switching back and forth and would be considered 'data' and would show up with some wingdings font or somecraplikethat.
09-04-2008, 09:56 PM
#19
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wait a second... are you calling me joe-tuner-grease-monkey??
09-05-2008, 03:27 AM
#20
I had the wire colors right... Hell, I even had the functions correct and that was my first guess at it just by looking!! +12V ign and ground are easy enough to find. I didn't bother with them. find just about any black wire on the ECU.... ground. ign power comes in through the SMJ and was on a 4x pin number, IIRC. I just didn't post it.
lanedrifter, thanks for the clarification on the RS232 port. I'm quite familiar with the MAX232 drivers- we use them all the time at work in our instrumentation. rather finicky little buggars, especially if you're using a cable with high inductance over more than 50 ft or so. not an issue in the Maxima, but it is with our stuff. we usually wind up converting to RS422.... but that's off the subject.
I hadn't seen anyone actually use the inverted 12V crapola. It doesn't surprise me given the car's abundance of 12V 'logic' and equipment, and I figure they also did it to keep Joe-the-Grease-Monkey-turned-Tuner from fabbing up his own programs for cheaper than the $$$$$ CONSULT unit.
Either way, even with the inverted 12V, you should still see gibberish on the screen with a terminal program hooked to the Tx wire and GND . whether it's inverted or not doesn't mean anything- it's still switching back and forth and would be considered 'data' and would show up with some wingdings font or somecraplikethat.
lanedrifter, thanks for the clarification on the RS232 port. I'm quite familiar with the MAX232 drivers- we use them all the time at work in our instrumentation. rather finicky little buggars, especially if you're using a cable with high inductance over more than 50 ft or so. not an issue in the Maxima, but it is with our stuff. we usually wind up converting to RS422.... but that's off the subject.
I hadn't seen anyone actually use the inverted 12V crapola. It doesn't surprise me given the car's abundance of 12V 'logic' and equipment, and I figure they also did it to keep Joe-the-Grease-Monkey-turned-Tuner from fabbing up his own programs for cheaper than the $$$$$ CONSULT unit.
Either way, even with the inverted 12V, you should still see gibberish on the screen with a terminal program hooked to the Tx wire and GND . whether it's inverted or not doesn't mean anything- it's still switching back and forth and would be considered 'data' and would show up with some wingdings font or somecraplikethat.
Anyways, glad to see people are starting to tune the 3rd gen more.
09-05-2008, 06:16 AM
#21
Lanedrifters... so send it an active high pulse or an active low pulse and see what happens...
All else fails, hook a serial splitter up to it and watch the data stream in/out of it when you hook up a consult tool...
Either way, it's figured out now. that's the important thing.
Last edited by Matt93SE; 09-05-2008 at 06:19 AM.
09-05-2008, 06:29 AM
#22
So hadman, what kind of changes can be made, I saw a bunch of options in the video. Obviously fuel, timing, K, VE, and VTC rpm right?
Nistune and PLMS had to dissasemble the VE bin to get that stuff, are they planning on releasing any further tuning parameters later that you know of?
Nistune and PLMS had to dissasemble the VE bin to get that stuff, are they planning on releasing any further tuning parameters later that you know of?
09-05-2008, 06:35 AM
#23
ok sooo...here's my problem...
i have a JWT ECU reflashed to the 370cc program with the nitrous daughter board.
for me to run nistune what more do i have to do? the program from JWT is less than stellar so i rather just mess with it myself.
someone give me the n00b's perspective...because when it comes to the ECU i'm clueless.
grazzy azz.
oh and yes i have that goofy black plug.
i have a JWT ECU reflashed to the 370cc program with the nitrous daughter board.
for me to run nistune what more do i have to do? the program from JWT is less than stellar so i rather just mess with it myself.
someone give me the n00b's perspective...because when it comes to the ECU i'm clueless.
grazzy azz.
oh and yes i have that goofy black plug.
09-05-2008, 06:53 AM
#24
I believe that you would just send them an ecu and they will install and program their board for you. They add the consult routines to the older non-consult ecus so you can datalog with it. Resizing for 370cc injectors is easy, they will probably send you a bin for that if you ask , but I dont think they have outputs for nitrous control built into their boards.
09-05-2008, 07:00 AM
#26
ok sooo...here's my problem...
i have a JWT ECU reflashed to the 370cc program with the nitrous daughter board.
for me to run nistune what more do i have to do? the program from JWT is less than stellar so i rather just mess with it myself.
someone give me the n00b's perspective...because when it comes to the ECU i'm clueless.
grazzy azz.
oh and yes i have that goofy black plug.
i have a JWT ECU reflashed to the 370cc program with the nitrous daughter board.
for me to run nistune what more do i have to do? the program from JWT is less than stellar so i rather just mess with it myself.
someone give me the n00b's perspective...because when it comes to the ECU i'm clueless.
grazzy azz.
oh and yes i have that goofy black plug.
09-05-2008, 08:38 AM
#28
You can go to nistune.com and read the user manual how to do it all. Basically once you get your fuel map up open up the multiplier and add decrease fuel where needed. The ign maps and all that are pretty simillar take timing or add when needed. Just make sure monitor the knock.
09-05-2008, 08:39 AM
#29
09-05-2008, 09:58 AM
#30
You can go to nistune.com and read the user manual how to do it all. Basically once you get your fuel map up open up the multiplier and add decrease fuel where needed. The ign maps and all that are pretty simillar take timing or add when needed. Just make sure monitor the knock.
what's the job of a emulator/romulator?
09-05-2008, 11:00 AM
#32
the emulator/romulator is a real time tuning and does live adjustments by itself. Where it says around 15.0 AFR it might and might not read off of that cell. It has map tracing it highlights the cell in blue on where it is reading along with current afr
09-05-2008, 11:43 AM
#33
so instead of having an eprom you would plug in a emulator/romulator and you can make on the fly adjustments from your laptop?
does the laptop needs to be connected 24/7 for the car to run or can you flash the ECU with your laptop and leave it alone?
does the laptop needs to be connected 24/7 for the car to run or can you flash the ECU with your laptop and leave it alone?
09-05-2008, 04:34 PM
#36
Hadman Im a little confused by this whole thread. I thought that "Type 1 boards" were outfitting with a USB connector by nistune, or rewired so you could use the consult port? Did you have nistune install the board or did you elect to install it yourself? Based on the website, I got the impression that when they returned your ECU, it was ready to start tuning with no other modifications needed.
09-05-2008, 05:50 PM
#37
Nice work man, did your interface come with a diagram noting the wire functions? How did you go about tracking down the wires at the port to the ECU? From your "spaghetti" reference, it sounds like you did it manually with a multimeter or continuity tester. The OBD port routing has got to be shown somewhere in the FSM, probably in the foldout.. Luckily there's only a few wires you had to deal with. Probably smooth sailing once you identified them.
Solid video production
Solid video production
09-05-2008, 09:45 PM
#39
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Hadman Im a little confused by this whole thread. I thought that "Type 1 boards" were outfitting with a USB connector by nistune, or rewired so you could use the consult port? Did you have nistune install the board or did you elect to install it yourself? Based on the website, I got the impression that when they returned your ECU, it was ready to start tuning with no other modifications needed.
if... and only if... your vehicle has a grey 14 pin OBDI consult port.q
I, and many others will find by looking at their consult port, that they do not in fact have the grey 14 pin consult. Instead, they have a funky 12 pin black consult.
For those of us with this type of consult, the only way around it is to fabricate a new consult that is compatible. That is what I was forced to do.
Hectic: the interface didn't come with a diagram, because it is supposed to be a plug and play thing. NIStune had never seen the black 12 pin consult before, but they worked with me to identify the the pin functions of their interface so I could properly align my fabricated consult to theirs. And yes, I used a standard multimeter on the ecu to confirm I had the correct lines. There were a few problems I faced relying on the foldout. For one, it doesn't specify data in/out. And if you trace the lines from the ecu to the consult, the wire colors don't remain consistent by the time you get to the consult.
09-06-2008, 05:59 AM
#40
Hey guys - Matt here from Nistune
J30 VG30E has the black diagnostic plug (not consult)
- Type 1 board is used with this an a USB socket is installed in the ECU so you can plug your laptop directly into the ECU. Total cost $400AUD for board and software.
J30 VE30DE has the grey consult plug
- Type 3 board and consult cable is used with this one. Normally just plugs directly into consult port once board is installed in ECU. Total cost $510AUD for board, software and cable
Postage $15AUD regular airmail. Installation extra. Current about $0.81AUD=$1USD at the moment
Since Hadleys car was a transplant with the VE30DE the consult wires from the transplant loom were going to an unknown location and causing ECU not to respond to consult initializations commands. Cutting the wires directly from the ECU (after wiring in consult plug) seemed to get it working.
I'm working on A32 VQ30DE at the moment, but the OBD-II models have double the memory that our Type 4 boards are capable of so means a bit of extra work
Send me an email via the nistune.com site if you have any direct questions as I'm not on these forums much
cheers
Matt
J30 VG30E has the black diagnostic plug (not consult)
- Type 1 board is used with this an a USB socket is installed in the ECU so you can plug your laptop directly into the ECU. Total cost $400AUD for board and software.
J30 VE30DE has the grey consult plug
- Type 3 board and consult cable is used with this one. Normally just plugs directly into consult port once board is installed in ECU. Total cost $510AUD for board, software and cable
Postage $15AUD regular airmail. Installation extra. Current about $0.81AUD=$1USD at the moment
Since Hadleys car was a transplant with the VE30DE the consult wires from the transplant loom were going to an unknown location and causing ECU not to respond to consult initializations commands. Cutting the wires directly from the ECU (after wiring in consult plug) seemed to get it working.
I'm working on A32 VQ30DE at the moment, but the OBD-II models have double the memory that our Type 4 boards are capable of so means a bit of extra work
Send me an email via the nistune.com site if you have any direct questions as I'm not on these forums much
cheers
Matt