what is a vg33e swap, really?
04-26-2010 | 06:54 PM
#41
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 127
From: Maine
The oil pan swap is needed only for the oil return fitting that came on turbo oil pans. You could install this type of return fitting on a NA oil pan, but purchasing a used turbo oil pan will usually work out to be cheaper anyway. for NA just use the oilpan for the car you are installing it into so to clean the cross member properly.
As for axles I've seen some that have been ripped apart, not by 180TQ but by 5-600TQ. The splines can be stripped or the axle can twist faster than the wheel rotates causing this.
That is from a VG by the way. Again, that is NOT a stock 180TQ VG but a modified one. While trans and axles will likely hold fine with a stock 33 my point is more geared to those modifying a VG33, but suppose the same would apply to those modifying the VG30 as well. If you are driving normally without trying to accelerate hard, dump clutch, dump to drive in autos etc then shouldn't affect, but if modifying the motor, generally that's the intent.
I guess to be technical what causes the snap is not the peak amount of torque but how quickly torque changes.
As for axles I've seen some that have been ripped apart, not by 180TQ but by 5-600TQ. The splines can be stripped or the axle can twist faster than the wheel rotates causing this.
That is from a VG by the way. Again, that is NOT a stock 180TQ VG but a modified one. While trans and axles will likely hold fine with a stock 33 my point is more geared to those modifying a VG33, but suppose the same would apply to those modifying the VG30 as well. If you are driving normally without trying to accelerate hard, dump clutch, dump to drive in autos etc then shouldn't affect, but if modifying the motor, generally that's the intent.
I guess to be technical what causes the snap is not the peak amount of torque but how quickly torque changes.
04-26-2010 | 07:44 PM
#42
seriously? 600hp on a 84-85 body? fail for restricting tire width! that's exactly why i got an 86 this time around! i need to find that vg33 swap thread i found a while back... i want to do a vg33 on mine but i'm not sure how much hassle it is with the oil pump or oil pickup and pulleys and stuff.
i can always hope you wont do it
04-26-2010 | 07:45 PM
#43
The oil pan swap is needed only for the oil return fitting that came on turbo oil pans. You could install this type of return fitting on a NA oil pan, but purchasing a used turbo oil pan will usually work out to be cheaper anyway. for NA just use the oilpan for the car you are installing it into so to clean the cross member properly.
As for axles I've seen some that have been ripped apart, not by 180TQ but by 5-600TQ. The splines can be stripped or the axle can twist faster than the wheel rotates causing this.
That is from a VG by the way. Again, that is NOT a stock 180TQ VG but a modified one. While trans and axles will likely hold fine with a stock 33 my point is more geared to those modifying a VG33, but suppose the same would apply to those modifying the VG30 as well. If you are driving normally without trying to accelerate hard, dump clutch, dump to drive in autos etc then shouldn't affect, but if modifying the motor, generally that's the intent.
I guess to be technical what causes the snap is not the peak amount of torque but how quickly torque changes.
As for axles I've seen some that have been ripped apart, not by 180TQ but by 5-600TQ. The splines can be stripped or the axle can twist faster than the wheel rotates causing this.
That is from a VG by the way. Again, that is NOT a stock 180TQ VG but a modified one. While trans and axles will likely hold fine with a stock 33 my point is more geared to those modifying a VG33, but suppose the same would apply to those modifying the VG30 as well. If you are driving normally without trying to accelerate hard, dump clutch, dump to drive in autos etc then shouldn't affect, but if modifying the motor, generally that's the intent.
I guess to be technical what causes the snap is not the peak amount of torque but how quickly torque changes.
04-26-2010 | 08:39 PM
#44
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 127
From: Maine
fair enough, I think more or less we are saying the same thing. I was just saying that the engine power and torque could hurt the trans, and if you fix that issue so the trans holds up it will likely be geared for torque in lower gears and it could damage the axles.
I still think the VG33ET is a pretty bad *** setup, which is why I plan it for my turbo Z, until I finally get the engine I really want. With thicker walls than the VG30 it can hold more boost so not only can you gain displacement, but you can gain strength to hold up to more power adders. I believe the VG30 can be bored out to almost a 3.2 before loosing all strength in the cylinder walls and the VG33 can be bored out to a 3.8 if that says anything about the thickness of the walls.
I still think the VG33ET is a pretty bad *** setup, which is why I plan it for my turbo Z, until I finally get the engine I really want. With thicker walls than the VG30 it can hold more boost so not only can you gain displacement, but you can gain strength to hold up to more power adders. I believe the VG30 can be bored out to almost a 3.2 before loosing all strength in the cylinder walls and the VG33 can be bored out to a 3.8 if that says anything about the thickness of the walls.
04-26-2010 | 09:47 PM
#45
fair enough, I think more or less we are saying the same thing. I was just saying that the engine power and torque could hurt the trans, and if you fix that issue so the trans holds up it will likely be geared for torque in lower gears and it could damage the axles.
I still think the VG33ET is a pretty bad *** setup, which is why I plan it for my turbo Z, until I finally get the engine I really want. With thicker walls than the VG30 it can hold more boost so not only can you gain displacement, but you can gain strength to hold up to more power adders. I believe the VG30 can be bored out to almost a 3.2 before loosing all strength in the cylinder walls and the VG33 can be bored out to a 3.8 if that says anything about the thickness of the walls.
I still think the VG33ET is a pretty bad *** setup, which is why I plan it for my turbo Z, until I finally get the engine I really want. With thicker walls than the VG30 it can hold more boost so not only can you gain displacement, but you can gain strength to hold up to more power adders. I believe the VG30 can be bored out to almost a 3.2 before loosing all strength in the cylinder walls and the VG33 can be bored out to a 3.8 if that says anything about the thickness of the walls.
04-26-2010 | 10:57 PM
#46
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3
Well I have my 93 Maxima Vg30e engine and its now time to figure out what I am going to do to my Maxima to "soup" it up, yeah I am going to trick out a FWD Auto 1993 Nissan Maxima "family sedan" so if anyone has any positive ideas for a plan after I get a Vg33 block into it i would like to know, and yeah the tranny will be replaced with what idk think up some crazy stuff and Id like to know what you come up with. if you want to tell me how pointless it is to soup this up save your breath this car means alot to me and i wouldnt want to put my time effort or money into any other car.
04-27-2010 | 06:53 AM
#47
Well I have my 93 Maxima Vg30e engine and its now time to figure out what I am going to do to my Maxima to "soup" it up, yeah I am going to trick out a FWD Auto 1993 Nissan Maxima "family sedan" so if anyone has any positive ideas for a plan after I get a Vg33 block into it i would like to know, and yeah the tranny will be replaced with what idk think up some crazy stuff and Id like to know what you come up with. if you want to tell me how pointless it is to soup this up save your breath this car means alot to me and i wouldnt want to put my time effort or money into any other car.
trans, go with a VE 5-speed swap
alot of interesting things could, in theory, be done to the vg33 block; my math says 4.0L+ engines with a bore/stroke. have yet to see anyone, anywhere do it, though.
Hey, Richard, Jared, speaking of stroke, has anyone ever actually used one of those stroker cranks from Paeco? you are on the Z boards waaaayyyy more than I am, so you would probably see it, if it exists.
anyway, here is some interesting reading for anyone interested in building a vg33 powerhouse
http://www.z31performance.com/forum/...a2d6d4c5165f65
since you have to log in to see it (sign up, their knowledge is priceless), I will post the info here:
I was dialing in the boring bar today, and testing the replacement 60 degree v6 base to make sure it's true. Threw up an old junk vg30 block, and was on the way to VG33 size to see what wall thickness was like. I got to 3.56" and decided to check and see where it was at. cyl#1 turned out to be about .155" on the thrust side and between .140" and .145" everywhere else. I would hate to bore another .042" out of that, that would make the walls less than an 8th of an inch in some spots.
so, I don't know if there is already documentation on this.. but I see this question thrown around all the time on all sorts of forums, so I thought I'd post up a definite answer... it's going to get THIN!
so, I don't know if there is already documentation on this.. but I see this question thrown around all the time on all sorts of forums, so I thought I'd post up a definite answer... it's going to get THIN!
Would you be willing to continue until you found the breakthrough thickness so we can document at least one case of wall thickness?
okay, the VG30 broke through at 3.78". broke through right below the deck. VG30 will be okay to run all the way up to 90mm bore. You might be able to get away with VH45 pistons if you checked to make sure your walls were okay.
VG33 has THICK walls.. they measured out at about .300ish thickness on a stock bore block. You could bore a VG33 all the way up to 99mm if you wanted to and you'd still have 5/32" to 1/8" cylinder walls. That would make it a 3.8 liter!!! haha
You don't have to drop $ to get machine work done, basic stuff like crank grinding and boring/honing is cheap, but also, cheap can be relative. our shop charges 89$ to grind a crank, and 10$ per hole to bore and 5$ per hole to hone, 50$ to surface each deck... so you could get away with a totally machined block and ground crank for under 300 bucks. Most prices are similar to ours, except for the big name race guys who do machine work, and all you're paying for there is a name.
honestly, if it was my engine.. I'd rather oil the pistons/walls by adding a little more rod bearing clearance with a little more rod side clearance than put squirters in. I hate squirters, they are nothing but a failure point IMO. lots of engines are running high hp w/o squirters, I don't think not having them is a restriction. I always block 'em off, I'd rather have pressure than oil on the bottom of my pistons. I built a 4g63 for a buddy last year with blocked off squirters, and he's running 25 psi on a T88 and hitting high 9's in the 1/4 with no problems.
VG33 has THICK walls.. they measured out at about .300ish thickness on a stock bore block. You could bore a VG33 all the way up to 99mm if you wanted to and you'd still have 5/32" to 1/8" cylinder walls. That would make it a 3.8 liter!!! haha
You don't have to drop $ to get machine work done, basic stuff like crank grinding and boring/honing is cheap, but also, cheap can be relative. our shop charges 89$ to grind a crank, and 10$ per hole to bore and 5$ per hole to hone, 50$ to surface each deck... so you could get away with a totally machined block and ground crank for under 300 bucks. Most prices are similar to ours, except for the big name race guys who do machine work, and all you're paying for there is a name.
honestly, if it was my engine.. I'd rather oil the pistons/walls by adding a little more rod bearing clearance with a little more rod side clearance than put squirters in. I hate squirters, they are nothing but a failure point IMO. lots of engines are running high hp w/o squirters, I don't think not having them is a restriction. I always block 'em off, I'd rather have pressure than oil on the bottom of my pistons. I built a 4g63 for a buddy last year with blocked off squirters, and he's running 25 psi on a T88 and hitting high 9's in the 1/4 with no problems.
Last edited by BenStoked; 04-27-2010 at 06:59 AM.
04-27-2010 | 11:30 AM
#48
04-30-2010 | 01:05 PM
#51
I have a vg33e sitting here. Plan on boring it with custom pistons to 3.6 for my z31. Easiest way to do the swap is use vg30e crank. The crank snouts are different. Theres lots of info out there the rwd are virtually the same as fwd. Just facing different direction. The vg33e use same injectors as vg30e 180cc.
04-30-2010 | 04:23 PM
#52
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 127
From: Maine
HA, 180cc injectors! That is not staying there for long is it? 3.6 should in theory still be a little thicker cylinder walls than a stock VG30 so you can boost that even a little more. Personally I am sticking with the 3.3 for a while so I can boost and push it harder with the thicker walls. That's my preference but 3.6 should still be plenty thick for quite a bit power.
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