Brake improvements
04-04-2010, 05:07 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North West Missouri
Posts: 202
Brake improvements
'94 Maxima, did a minor tune up and was amazed at how quickly it ran up to and how hard it continued to pull at a ton.
Probably hit 105 before it was time to try the brakes, and on man
I do not call those brakes. Reminded me of the first time I rode my 1972 Kawasaki H1B 500cc two stroke triple with a single front disk brake - in the rain.
No brakes, in defense of the Maxima, not as bad as that old bike's brakes, but come on -
Front brake pads were last changed in January of 1999, the 12th to be exact.
Car had 57907 miles on it then, >94,000 now.
Rotors were also turned at the time. $53.90 for the pads, $20.00 to turn the rotors, 80.90 in labor - 1999 money.
Nothing found on the rears, so I'm thinking it is time to replace the pads and shoes, maybe the replace the lines with braided SS replacements and flush the fluid/system for sure.
On a budget, any tips appreciated - is there an on-line factory manual available anywhere?
Tips or tricks?
Thanks in advance
Probably hit 105 before it was time to try the brakes, and on man
I do not call those brakes. Reminded me of the first time I rode my 1972 Kawasaki H1B 500cc two stroke triple with a single front disk brake - in the rain.
No brakes, in defense of the Maxima, not as bad as that old bike's brakes, but come on -
Front brake pads were last changed in January of 1999, the 12th to be exact.
Car had 57907 miles on it then, >94,000 now.
Rotors were also turned at the time. $53.90 for the pads, $20.00 to turn the rotors, 80.90 in labor - 1999 money.
Nothing found on the rears, so I'm thinking it is time to replace the pads and shoes, maybe the replace the lines with braided SS replacements and flush the fluid/system for sure.
On a budget, any tips appreciated - is there an on-line factory manual available anywhere?
Tips or tricks?
Thanks in advance
04-04-2010, 05:38 PM
#2
rear "z31" disc swap using:
up front you can do a J30/Q45 caliper setup (twin piston).. search for threads on here about that swap for more details.
OR
if you 16" or larger wheels, you can use 2002-2003 maxima full front brake setup (11.65" rotor vs 11.05" stock rotor). you just have to bore out the mounting holes on the knuckle to accomodate the M14 bolt rather than the stock M12 bolt
pics: http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ront%20brakes/
OR
you can use z32 calipers with some relocation adapters and special brake lines and 12.4" 6th gen maxima rotors or 13" mustang cobra rotors.
and of course use good quality pads like Hawk HPS or similar
i personally had the 2002-2003 maxima front brakes and the z31 rear brakes with hawk pads up front and i-dunno pads in the rear.. would have liked to have some SS lines but the braking was balanced and predictable and very fade-resistant. a trillion times better than my Shiitvic.
- any year rear disc brake strut housings and rubber brake lines
- 89-90 maxima caliper adapter brackets (4 bolts, behind the hub/shield)
- 91-94 maxima calipers/torque members/ebrake cables/pads
- 1986 300zx rear rotors (11-3/8" vs the stock 10-1/4" rear rotors)
up front you can do a J30/Q45 caliper setup (twin piston).. search for threads on here about that swap for more details.
OR
if you 16" or larger wheels, you can use 2002-2003 maxima full front brake setup (11.65" rotor vs 11.05" stock rotor). you just have to bore out the mounting holes on the knuckle to accomodate the M14 bolt rather than the stock M12 bolt
pics: http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ront%20brakes/
OR
you can use z32 calipers with some relocation adapters and special brake lines and 12.4" 6th gen maxima rotors or 13" mustang cobra rotors.
and of course use good quality pads like Hawk HPS or similar
i personally had the 2002-2003 maxima front brakes and the z31 rear brakes with hawk pads up front and i-dunno pads in the rear.. would have liked to have some SS lines but the braking was balanced and predictable and very fade-resistant. a trillion times better than my Shiitvic.
Last edited by CapedCadaver; 04-04-2010 at 05:44 PM.
04-04-2010, 07:07 PM
#3
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North West Missouri
Posts: 202
rear "z31" disc swap using:
up front you can do a J30/Q45 caliper setup (twin piston).. search for threads on here about that swap for more details.
OR
if you 16" or larger wheels, you can use 2002-2003 maxima full front brake setup (11.65" rotor vs 11.05" stock rotor). you just have to bore out the mounting holes on the knuckle to accomodate the M14 bolt rather than the stock M12 bolt
pics: http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ront%20brakes/
OR
you can use z32 calipers with some relocation adapters and special brake lines and 12.4" 6th gen maxima rotors or 13" mustang cobra rotors.
and of course use good quality pads like Hawk HPS or similar
i personally had the 2002-2003 maxima front brakes and the z31 rear brakes with hawk pads up front and i-dunno pads in the rear.. would have liked to have some SS lines but the braking was balanced and predictable and very fade-resistant. a trillion times better than my Shiitvic.
- any year rear disc brake strut housings and rubber brake lines
- 89-90 maxima caliper adapter brackets (4 bolts, behind the hub/shield)
- 91-94 maxima calipers/torque members/ebrake cables/pads
- 1986 300zx rear rotors (11-3/8" vs the stock 10-1/4" rear rotors)
up front you can do a J30/Q45 caliper setup (twin piston).. search for threads on here about that swap for more details.
OR
if you 16" or larger wheels, you can use 2002-2003 maxima full front brake setup (11.65" rotor vs 11.05" stock rotor). you just have to bore out the mounting holes on the knuckle to accomodate the M14 bolt rather than the stock M12 bolt
pics: http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ront%20brakes/
OR
you can use z32 calipers with some relocation adapters and special brake lines and 12.4" 6th gen maxima rotors or 13" mustang cobra rotors.
and of course use good quality pads like Hawk HPS or similar
i personally had the 2002-2003 maxima front brakes and the z31 rear brakes with hawk pads up front and i-dunno pads in the rear.. would have liked to have some SS lines but the braking was balanced and predictable and very fade-resistant. a trillion times better than my Shiitvic.
04-05-2010, 06:56 AM
#5
Or bore out the mount bores on the knuckle as Cape said, but use the 6th Gen 12.6" rotors, the Oem 6th Gen caliper, and the 6th gen Caliper torque member and call it the day! I wouldn't recommend using the 11.0", 11.65" nor the 11.75" rotors their inboard side is missing a substantial amount of material due to the larger knuckles used on the 5th gens and less heat sink ability......
04-05-2010, 07:20 AM
#6
Or bore out the mount bores on the knuckle as Cape said, but use the 6th Gen 12.6" rotors, the Oem 6th Gen caliper, and the 6th gen Caliper torque member and call it the day! I wouldn't recommend using the 11.0", 11.65" nor the 11.75" rotors their inboard side is missing a substantial amount of material due to the larger knuckles used on the 5th gens and less heat sink ability......
04-05-2010, 07:45 AM
#7
Don't waste your time on any of that. If the rotors are in good shape, then buy a set of Axxis MetalMaster or Hawk HPS pads to fit your stock calipers.. do that front and rear.
Flush the brake fluid with something better- like Valvoline Synpower.. you can buy it at Autozone for about $5 a bottle.
That's all you need for anything less than mountain runs or track use. Anything else on a daily-driven street car just adds weight, complexity, and hassles to a brake job.
And yes.. the Axxis MM will do just fine for even aggressive driving. Back in the day when I street raced, I'd nail the brakes at 120 over and over and over and never had a problem with them overheating.
Flush the brake fluid with something better- like Valvoline Synpower.. you can buy it at Autozone for about $5 a bottle.
That's all you need for anything less than mountain runs or track use. Anything else on a daily-driven street car just adds weight, complexity, and hassles to a brake job.
And yes.. the Axxis MM will do just fine for even aggressive driving. Back in the day when I street raced, I'd nail the brakes at 120 over and over and over and never had a problem with them overheating.
04-05-2010, 08:44 AM
#8
Don't waste your time on any of that. If the rotors are in good shape, then buy a set of Axxis MetalMaster or Hawk HPS pads to fit your stock calipers.. do that front and rear.
Flush the brake fluid with something better- like Valvoline Synpower.. you can buy it at Autozone for about $5 a bottle.
That's all you need for anything less than mountain runs or track use. Anything else on a daily-driven street car just adds weight, complexity, and hassles to a brake job.
And yes.. the Axxis MM will do just fine for even aggressive driving. Back in the day when I street raced, I'd nail the brakes at 120 over and over and over and never had a problem with them overheating.
Flush the brake fluid with something better- like Valvoline Synpower.. you can buy it at Autozone for about $5 a bottle.
That's all you need for anything less than mountain runs or track use. Anything else on a daily-driven street car just adds weight, complexity, and hassles to a brake job.
And yes.. the Axxis MM will do just fine for even aggressive driving. Back in the day when I street raced, I'd nail the brakes at 120 over and over and over and never had a problem with them overheating.
04-05-2010, 09:16 AM
#9
80% of the braking is done up front. by the time the rear drums get hot enough to matter on the street, you're going to have half the local police force looking for you.
but yes. a rear disc swap would definitely be in order if you want better brakes.
but yes. a rear disc swap would definitely be in order if you want better brakes.
04-05-2010, 11:03 AM
#10
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 127
Will any dual piston calipers from Nissan work up front like the 87-89 300ZX Turbo Calipers? On a side note you can do slotted rotors, but it's hell on your pads, gives an extra bite to feel like you are really braking hard, reality is however that blanks are still better 95% of the time, and don't get cross drilled. Make sure you've got good pressure in your brake lines, Maybe someone else can help more than I can in this but is there a brake master cylinder upgrade for the Max? I know for Z guys it can be upgraded to a Z32 one, and people have started bracing them to the body as it moves quite a bit just from depressing the pedal. I am curious however what kind of driving you need these better brakes for, how you use them would be needed to determine what the best upgrade is for you. If you track the car upgrading pistons and rotors is a good idea, for road driven only, I'd simply inspect everything and maybe do the rear swap to calipers just cause I hate drums. If the MC movement is a common problem in the Max then consider bracing it and see how she feel once all that is done.
04-05-2010, 11:16 AM
#11
The front brake geometry offset is about 3mm between FWD and RWD Nissans.
i.e. you can bolt on Z31 or Z32 front brakes by milling down the radius of the Z31/Z32 rotor by about 3mm. Everything bolts on after that.
I sell brake kids to adapt the Z32 caliper with the 12.6" 2004 Maxima rotor. They're a great seller among the higher-powered cars and the guys that like to track them (or are looking to fill up huge wheels).. but they're simply overkill on a Maxima unless you're really driving the car hard.
Believe it or not, the 3 gen Maxima actually has pretty good brakes- all things considered. put some good pads and fluid in them and you can beat on the car quite a bit before running out of brakes.
i.e. you can bolt on Z31 or Z32 front brakes by milling down the radius of the Z31/Z32 rotor by about 3mm. Everything bolts on after that.
I sell brake kids to adapt the Z32 caliper with the 12.6" 2004 Maxima rotor. They're a great seller among the higher-powered cars and the guys that like to track them (or are looking to fill up huge wheels).. but they're simply overkill on a Maxima unless you're really driving the car hard.
Believe it or not, the 3 gen Maxima actually has pretty good brakes- all things considered. put some good pads and fluid in them and you can beat on the car quite a bit before running out of brakes.
04-05-2010, 11:17 AM
#12
Will any dual piston calipers from Nissan work up front like the 87-89 300ZX Turbo Calipers? On a side note you can do slotted rotors, but it's hell on your pads, gives an extra bite to feel like you are really braking hard, reality is however that blanks are still better 95% of the time, and don't get cross drilled. Make sure you've got good pressure in your brake lines, Maybe someone else can help more than I can in this but is there a brake master cylinder upgrade for the Max? I know for Z guys it can be upgraded to a Z32 one, and people have started bracing them to the body as it moves quite a bit just from depressing the pedal. I am curious however what kind of driving you need these better brakes for, how you use them would be needed to determine what the best upgrade is for you. If you track the car upgrading pistons and rotors is a good idea, for road driven only, I'd simply inspect everything and maybe do the rear swap to calipers just cause I hate drums. If the MC movement is a common problem in the Max then consider bracing it and see how she feel once all that is done.
04-05-2010, 11:46 AM
#13
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 127
presumably it's possible though i'm not sure what the correct rotor would be for that, as far as the offset between the hub part of the rotor and the contact surface of the rotor. but the J30 rotors are known for a fact to work, and are also dual piston, and considerably easier to find that 87-89 zxt's at junkyards (ie i've never even seen one at a jy or else i'd have grabbed the front hubs/calipers off it for my z!)
04-05-2010, 12:56 PM
#14
The 87-89 turbo Calipers are in theory the same as the J30, but I haven't sat them side by side. As for your Z you don't need the calipers, skip the dual pistons and get some Z32 Calipers. I had an 87 Turbo I stripped so I got hubs from that and sold the calipers, also am trying to pick up another set of 87 turbo hubs thurs. Not sure if you are on z31P or not but my hubs are with Bartco now for the fabrication of the BBK, but that's a whole other story. I know they are harder to find but thought it'd be worth mentioning so it doesn't go overlooked if someone does find one in a JY. (PS. if anyone does find an 87-89 Turbo 300ZX in the JY PLEASE GRAB THE HUBS AND LET EITHER CAPED OR MYSELF KNOW) Also 240Z guys use toyota 4x4 calipers as they are 4 piston with 86 300ZX rotors. I've seen 3000GT 4 pistons on a Z too, basically just saying that almost any caliper should work as long as you can center it over the rotor and find a rotor that uses the whole brake pad surface, though the more pad to rotor contact the better. I personally am partial to my Z32 30MM aluminum calipers myself.
04-05-2010, 01:10 PM
#15
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 127
i'm on z31performance.com and z31.com (same username as here) tho i don't really post on either, since my car doesn't run yet. Looking for a cleaner shell (86 if possible, for the wider fenders and old-style headlights/taillights). But yea, all i really want is the hubs, so i could use z32 calipers, perhaps even with some of matt93se's brackets, and the maxima rotors or cobra rotors. I'm using the 87-89 rear control arms & vented rotors, tho i still need a matching set of rear calipers for that. And ebrake cables that aren't seized
04-05-2010, 01:21 PM
#16
I was gonna say I haven't seen you on Z31P, I have Z31.com and 88hybrid too but I seem to stay on Z31p now, and again same name as here. I've got an 85 Turbo and 89NA, and my sister has an 84 Slicktop. I actually like the narrow fenders with the front end conversion. Wish I'd known about the 86 before now, I've run into multiple deals on both 86's and even a few AE's. Matt makes brackets for the calipers? I can tell he knows what he's doing so maybe I'll have to see about if he can make some brackets that'd work on my 85, I'd rather support someone in the community over some random guy who doesn't care what he's making. I'm gonna go ahead and stop now because I'm getting way off topic, I can help you out on a few things Z related I'm sure but this isn't the place for it, PM me, well once I'm allowed to receive them and I'll talk to you. Has anyone used a brace on the MC yet and posted the results? Might be a simple yet effective solution to the issue the OP was talking about.
don't think anyone's ever tried bracing the mcyl in a 3rd gen.. if they have, they haven't posted about it since i've been on here.
and yea, i was gonna get that AE shell that the dude in SC posted on z31p but now the thread is gone so i guess it's been sold
so i guess i'm on the lookout for a clean-bodied 86 2str with a dead motor or something now.
04-05-2010, 01:25 PM
#17
I don't see a MC brace being terribly useful for many people on here- the issues aren't necessarily ultimate performance rather than simply having the right parts for the job. i.e. performance pads instead of "cruiser" pads. Not too many people on this forum drive their cars hard enough to NEED the master cylinder be braced that well. Our cars have quite a bit of brake assist as well, so they don't have a ton of pedal pressure- which is what causes the firewall flex. My car (pictured below) is the only one I've ever seen have issues with the firewall flex, but that was cause I'm running a set of 13" custom rotors, and wilwood Superlites with tiny ~1.4" pistons so I can dial the rear calipers down for correct f/r bias on the track.
Because of the smaller pistons and restrictors (that's what a bias adjuster really is at the end of the day), my pedal pressure is 2-3 times what it used to be on the old Wilwoods with 1.75" pistons.....
As for my brake kits, unfortunately the brackets we have on the shelf are all we're going to make. I have a regular day job that takes about 60 hrs/week of my life, and the business is up for sale. I simply don't have time to deal with that, regular job, daily life, and building my S14 race car. too many irons in the fire! custom stuff is not at all possible since I don't have the machining capabilities I did five years ago when I made the original kit (let alone easy access to a guinea pig car!)
The good news for you though is that anything that fits on a Z32 should fit on your car (since you're already running Z32 brakes). so find something there- used Brembo or Wilwood/Fastbrakes kits pop up on occasion on TT.net so you may keep an eye out.
As for parts sources, give these two local shops a call. both members of the local Z club, and MIGHT be able to help. with parts this rare, they've probably already used all their spares, but you never know...
http://www.znzx.com/
http://awesomez.org/
Because of the smaller pistons and restrictors (that's what a bias adjuster really is at the end of the day), my pedal pressure is 2-3 times what it used to be on the old Wilwoods with 1.75" pistons.....
As for my brake kits, unfortunately the brackets we have on the shelf are all we're going to make. I have a regular day job that takes about 60 hrs/week of my life, and the business is up for sale. I simply don't have time to deal with that, regular job, daily life, and building my S14 race car. too many irons in the fire! custom stuff is not at all possible since I don't have the machining capabilities I did five years ago when I made the original kit (let alone easy access to a guinea pig car!)
The good news for you though is that anything that fits on a Z32 should fit on your car (since you're already running Z32 brakes). so find something there- used Brembo or Wilwood/Fastbrakes kits pop up on occasion on TT.net so you may keep an eye out.
As for parts sources, give these two local shops a call. both members of the local Z club, and MIGHT be able to help. with parts this rare, they've probably already used all their spares, but you never know...
http://www.znzx.com/
http://awesomez.org/
Last edited by Matt93SE; 04-05-2010 at 01:29 PM.
04-05-2010, 01:35 PM
#18
yeah, blehmco.com = matt93se
don't think anyone's ever tried bracing the mcyl in a 3rd gen.. if they have, they haven't posted about it since i've been on here.
and yea, i was gonna get that AE shell that the dude in SC posted on z31p but now the thread is gone so i guess it's been sold so i guess i'm on the lookout for a clean-bodied 86 2str with a dead motor or something now.
don't think anyone's ever tried bracing the mcyl in a 3rd gen.. if they have, they haven't posted about it since i've been on here.
and yea, i was gonna get that AE shell that the dude in SC posted on z31p but now the thread is gone so i guess it's been sold
so i guess i'm on the lookout for a clean-bodied 86 2str with a dead motor or something now.http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/1660343704.html
need me to go glance at them?
off topic, not on fb often, would Nashville be alright?
04-05-2010, 01:43 PM
#19
http://stillwater.craigslist.org/cto/1665671155.html
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/1660343704.html
need me to go glance at them?
off topic, not on fb often, would Nashville be alright?
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/1660343704.html
need me to go glance at them?
off topic, not on fb often, would Nashville be alright?
04-05-2010, 02:06 PM
#20
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 127
agreed, So based on what Matt is saying the brake issue is not really an issue just a lack of getting the right parts or getting cheap parts. I relate to the Z often so far as I'm still new to the 3rd gen MAX and the Z I'm more familiar with but they do share many common parts as you know. So to the OP if you want to upgrade, upgrade rears to rotors and upgrade pads and also make sure that your lines are properly bleed. Unless you want to upgrade much further, then that's a whole other story but it didn't sound like you did.
04-05-2010, 03:30 PM
#21
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North West Missouri
Posts: 202
Don't waste your time on any of that. If the rotors are in good shape, then buy a set of Axxis MetalMaster or Hawk HPS pads to fit your stock calipers.. do that front and rear.
Flush the brake fluid with something better- like Valvoline Synpower.. you can buy it at Autozone for about $5 a bottle.
That's all you need for anything less than mountain runs or track use. Anything else on a daily-driven street car just adds weight, complexity, and hassles to a brake job.
And yes.. the Axxis MM will do just fine for even aggressive driving. Back in the day when I street raced, I'd nail the brakes at 120 over and over and over and never had a problem with them overheating.
Flush the brake fluid with something better- like Valvoline Synpower.. you can buy it at Autozone for about $5 a bottle.
That's all you need for anything less than mountain runs or track use. Anything else on a daily-driven street car just adds weight, complexity, and hassles to a brake job.
And yes.. the Axxis MM will do just fine for even aggressive driving. Back in the day when I street raced, I'd nail the brakes at 120 over and over and over and never had a problem with them overheating.
Sounds like a plan to me, thanks!
I've got to do something about the handling, the car floats, shocks are history - maybe stiffer springs at the same time.
04-05-2010, 03:41 PM
#22
04-05-2010, 04:26 PM
#24
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 127
+10
Stiffer springs or stiffer sway bars have similar results, both becomes WAY too stiff for daily drivers. If you use stiffer springs the ride becomes rough, sway bars with the factory or only slightly stiffer springs will give you the lack of body roll allowing for much better cornering and the ability for your springs to depress and react to a rough road surface thus maintaining a smoother ride. Contrary to what 90% of people do replace sway bars not springs for a daily driver.
Stiffer springs or stiffer sway bars have similar results, both becomes WAY too stiff for daily drivers. If you use stiffer springs the ride becomes rough, sway bars with the factory or only slightly stiffer springs will give you the lack of body roll allowing for much better cornering and the ability for your springs to depress and react to a rough road surface thus maintaining a smoother ride. Contrary to what 90% of people do replace sway bars not springs for a daily driver.
04-11-2010, 07:30 PM
#25
It's possible that my pads are the weaklink...Akebono seem to suck to me...One 85 mph panic stop and the pads after that were faded like crazy...I'll try those Axis MM and if that's still an issue...I'll do a 6th gen front brake upgrade with hawk pads...
04-11-2010, 08:18 PM
#26
that's why i did both front and rear on mine, and it had very good balance and was stable under braking even in emergency deer-avoidance maneuvers.
04-13-2010, 05:26 PM
#28
the metal master name is long discontinued. they were renamed to XBG
axxis is also called PBR.
I have severely overheated my brakes on several cars on street runs where i was running against the clock.
the best upgrade I did to my 3rd gen was the Z31 rotor upgrade on the rear, made a world of difference.
axxis is also called PBR.
I have severely overheated my brakes on several cars on street runs where i was running against the clock.
the best upgrade I did to my 3rd gen was the Z31 rotor upgrade on the rear, made a world of difference.
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