Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

HOLY SH**!! If you guys are looking for better handling, this is a requirement. This mod did as much for my car as the FSTB and sway bars put together.
First, my current suspension mods:
Courtesy FSTB, 16" wheels, Firestone SZ-50 tires, Eibachs, Tokicos, Sus Tech sway bars.

Now for my impressions:

Cornering is MUCH improved. little to no lean in the corners, and the back end almost completely stops trying to come around when you let off the gas on a hard corner. I would venture to say it's because the inside rear wheel is still planted on the ground where it should be, instead of freewheeling in air like you see in the pics of FWD cars on hard corners.
You want real numbers? the cloverleaf off-ramps on the highway that are marked 25mph.. I usually take them at about 45. 55 absolute MAX.. on the drive home Friday, I'd start into the corner about 40 and speed up as I was going through. The first couple times around, I hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear before I was done. (that's about 67mph on a VE 5 speed).

I took the last one in 3rd gear, but stopped about 65mph as there was a bump at the end that would send me flying into the far left lane if I went at it too hard.
That is a huge, I mean HUGE increase in the cornering ability- and remember, I've got every other suspension mod out there already.

Overall the feel of the car is much more solid. when I went over some speedbumps at an angle, the car felt much more solid and didn't whip my head back and forth when the car rocked after each tire went the bump.
Brake dive and squatting on hard acceleration also improved quite a bit. Don't ask how or why, but I noticed a difference.

The only downfall I see of these is that there's a small amount of increased road noise inside the car, probably due to the suspension being more rigid and transmitting a few more bumps into the cabin. the overall ride didn't change over small bumps and stuff- it's stiffer and more confident, but it didn't make small bumps harsh at all. It actually feels better this way. no more of the "thump rattle rattle rattle" of the car settling back down. it was just a "thump" and nothing after. The car immediately took back to its stance and drove on like the bump was never there.


As I said above, I HIGHLY recommend this mod to anyone that drives their car hard. They do hang slightly below the frame rails on the 3rd gens, (less than 1/2" max) but the middle section of the sway bar is about an inch lower then the lowest point on the subframe connectors. It might be a concern with you guys with sprint and Intrax springs.. you might "high center" if you went over large humps like driveways and stuff.. that's a point you'll have to determine yourself between your springs and where you drive, but I'm 100% for these things. I wish someone had done them sooner!

And here's the link to a few of the install pictures and stuff on the warpspeed website.
http://warpspeedperformance.com/subframe2.htm

- Matt

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Matt under threat of bodily harm has demanded I "stick" this thread for him. Boy these 3-gen guys are demanding.

Nice write up Matt.

nismo1989

Did you do install yourself?? Between parts and install, how much money did you have to part with?

Again, great write up, Matt. WSP should thank you for such a plug...

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Install should ONLY be done on a drive-on lift, and will require welding.. thus there's not too many people on the board that can do it themselves.
if I just needed to weld it on, I could have done it in the driveway. but these MUST be installed on a 4-post drive-on lift. otherwise, the frame will be slightly bent from any other type of lift or jack support, and the car won't be in the correct position when the parts are welded on. these bars are strong enough to keep the frame from settling back into "correct" position, thus preventing the doors from closing correctly.
Make sense?

As for pricing, I believe WSP said the price will be around $130 for the set, and install should cost $30-60, depending on the service rates from the install shop. (Most muffler shops will have the correct lift and all have welders, so it'll be an easy one for them.)

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

just a few questions posted on the other 3rd gen board. thought I'd post the answers here.

some of the answers are from me, others by Dallas @ WSP.


: : 1)How many tabs (the welded area) are on each rails, it looks like three?

: There's either 3 or 4 on the rails themselves, then they're connected to the radius rod mount in the back.

:
: : 2)For stage II, where will they be bolted or welded onto the primary rails?

: hard to describe, plus they're still kinda in design.

:
: : 3)How many cross rails will there be in stage II

: dunno.

: : 4)Does stage I rails connect to any suspension components, it doesn't look like it?

: the back end of the rails connect to the radius rod mount in the back.

: : 5)From the pics it looks like the rails are on the outside of the chassis frame rails, is there a specific reason for this like clearnace issues. Could they be fliped around to have them on
the inside or are they designed/created to be install on the outside?

: They're designed for the outside. on the left side of the car, the fuel and brake lines run next to the rail just to the inside. it would be dumb (and extremely difficult) to mount them there.

: : 6)Will the stage II rails decrease the ground clearance futher, lower than the lowest part of the sway bars.

: they shouldn't, but I have yet to see a final product on the stage II. When we talked in the shop, that was my biggest concern, echo'd by Dallas and Billy, the installer.

:
: : 7)What's the od of the stage I rails and what will be the od diameter of the stage II rails?

: On the Stage I, looks like about 1.25", but very heavy gauge steel. the shop's tubing bender had a hard time bending them, and it was made for up to 4" pipe.

: : 8)As John mentioned, it looks like time to break out the cc and worry about paying bill later

: : 6)Thanks

The tubing is 1-1/2" OD heavy wall, not pipe. It is a special tubing designed to be used as a structural component. It mounts to 3 flat plates on each side which attach to the frame rails and
one to the rear radius rod mount. We did it like that to give lateral stiffness as well. It is in sort of an L design.
The stage 2 will be the same size but thinner tubing. It will attach to 6 points via bolts. It has a lateral tube which has several bends in it to clear a 2-1/2" B pipe and will end up no lower
than the sway bar. We tucked them under real nice so there should be no clearance loss. The other tubes will actually for an "x" and will attach to the lateral section and existing tabs on
the stage 1.

It makes a big difference on the gen 4 as well and we are doing the gen 5 Thursday. We have also offered to do the gen 2 if there is any interest.

Dallas

Warpspeed Performance

FroMan

nice work gentlemen! looks like warpspeed is really picking up the slack!

Any possibility of some better pics?!

- Matt after a week or so of driving and the car begins to settle.. give another review. I'm curious to see if there are any ill effects (affects)...

Fro

nismo1989

I second that. I'm a little hesitant to WELD one of these things onto my car. I will be waiting for the follow up review...

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

Yes, I have been away. But I see you got your set on. SUHWEET! Now you know the feeling of the subs. I am still in ahhhh with mine. Everyone needs to jump on these, as soon as they are up for sale.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Welding is stiffer and less damaging than bolting them on.. If you bolt them on, the forces encountered in these bars will easily sheer in half a 3/8" bolt. by the time you get a bolt big enough that won't sheer apart, you're looking at drilling huge holes in your frame and having to remove half your interior to bolt them down.. You'll also be drilling through key structural parts of the car.
then if you ever decide to remove them, you've got to find a way to plug the holes and still keep the car's structure intact.

If you weld the braces on, you can remove the SFCs/welds in your driveway with just a grinder. Then touch them up with rubberized undercoater spray and it'll be like they were never there.
MUCH safer than drilling holes in your car!

nismo1989

Ok, ok. You make a very good point (several of them, actually) but it's not something I would want to have someone else to do and until I see what you think a week or so from now I'm not forking up the money and surely not investing the time/effort into the fabrication. However, since our suspention setups are virtually the same, (aside from my car having 17" wheels and 225/50/ZR17 tires) I feel confident in your essesment of this mods value. I hope you keep us posted on it's performance gains in light of our concerns and I hope this can be my next suspention mod, if it is truly worth it. Thanks again for your info, and keep us posted.

SuDZ

If only it could be done at home it would be much more convienient and cheaper.

SuDZ

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

sure.. but it wouldn't be done right. it's not possible for you to get under your car and weld/bolt these on properly without having the car on a lift.. unless you can lie down on flat concrete and slide under the car and weld thse things on.

It's not a matter of making them easy to install, it's a matter of the car's frame being straight when you install them. that's impossible without having the car on a lift.

bmfjeep

We just welded a set to a Gen 5 car today. The floor area and frame rails are so thin on the Maxima's one would have to attach a backing plate on the inside with spacers between to bolt them on plus figure a way to attach a bracket to the radial arm support. I am sure it can be done but am uncertain if it would be worth the time it would take.
I'll be posting more photo's Saturday.

It isn't scary at all to do the welding as long as you have a squirt bottle handy and you remove the undercoating in the area to be welded. It is hard if you have never welded overhead so we do not expect to see a lot of people renting welders. We are going to cut mine off tomorrow and add the brackets for the stage 2 x brace. We will use a 4-1/2" grinder and then reweld the new brackets on. My friend says he will only charge $45 to install them if the undercoating is removed prior to the install. I think that is probably about right.

Matt: I will call you tomorrow, I got my phone lines slammed by Sprint and was unable to call you back. They should be switched back tomorrow.

Dallas

WarpSpeed Performance

JonnyMax

for these things?

Dan 93 SE

It should run around $15 or less. Remember, we only charge what it costs. Dallas can usually give accurate extimates as to cost.Call for more info.

Dan WSP

Strrrive

Are there any pictures of this thing either on or off the car?
I am thinking of doing the addco rear anti sway and the suspension techniques front. Would this thing be in place of or work in conjuction with this upgrade?

Dan 93 SE

Strrrive, read Matt's reviews carefully. There is a link for some of the PICs of his install.

http://warpspeedperformance.com/subframe2.htm

It will work in conjunction with other suspension upgrades.

Dan WSP

CandiMan

iTrader: (1)

Since I started working at a local garage I've seen two cars with SFC's, both being Fords a Mustang(99-00) and T-Bird(late 80's). The Mustang seem to be a quailty after-market piece while the T-Bird look like a shade tree back yard design, but yet it looked functional. My point is, both these SFC's were welded to the car. Like others I'm a little nervous about permanently installing a mod that can't be removed with basic hand tools except for a dremel or die grinder. Also I have to find a reputable welder and have faith in his work.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Any muffler shop eediot with a 4 post lift and a MIG welder should be able to install these with no problems. they will come with very specific instructions and are VERY self-explanatory anyway. If you take a look at these and don't trust a muffler shop to install them, then you probably shouldn't even pop the hood of your own car, as you wouldn't think you're qualified to do the job. (i.e. if you don't think a muffler shop can make a few welds in the right places, then you're too dammn picky to let anyone touch your car)