Help me beat a speeding ticket
12-22-2001, 10:24 AM
#1
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 258
Help me beat a speeding ticket
A couple of weeks ago, I got a ticket. The officer said that he clocked me at 60mph. I gave him the deer in headlights look, 
wondering how this could have happened. I may have been driving a bit more aggressive than I should, but there was no way I was going 60mph.
A bit about my car:
93GXE, Automatic, bone stock, with about 110lbs of stuff in the trunk that day.
Situation:
I pulled out of the gas station and proceeded down the road. Officer wrote on the ticket that it was heavy traffic (almost lunchtime), on a 45mph road. From where the gas station was to where he was, I clocked on my odometer 0.15 miles. That's my objective, proving that I couldn't get up to that speed in that short distance. I tried to push my car as fast as I could to get to 60, and it took some effort. On the day in question, I wasn't pushing the car at all. I don't even think I broke 3300 rpm (doubt if I even broke 3000rpm) Tranny switch was set to Auto mode.
That's about all the info that I believe is pertinent. How should I plea, and on what grounds?
wondering how this could have happened. I may have been driving a bit more aggressive than I should, but there was no way I was going 60mph.A bit about my car:
93GXE, Automatic, bone stock, with about 110lbs of stuff in the trunk that day.
Situation:
I pulled out of the gas station and proceeded down the road. Officer wrote on the ticket that it was heavy traffic (almost lunchtime), on a 45mph road. From where the gas station was to where he was, I clocked on my odometer 0.15 miles. That's my objective, proving that I couldn't get up to that speed in that short distance. I tried to push my car as fast as I could to get to 60, and it took some effort. On the day in question, I wasn't pushing the car at all. I don't even think I broke 3300 rpm (doubt if I even broke 3000rpm) Tranny switch was set to Auto mode.
That's about all the info that I believe is pertinent. How should I plea, and on what grounds?
12-22-2001, 03:46 PM
#2
In reality I can't see your grounds for pleading not guilty. If its your word against his, his wins.
An odo reading you remember isn't enough evidence, put bluntly its just wasting the courts time. Did you explain these details to the reporting officer at the time of the offense? Did you lodge a complaint straight after at the station?
If you stand in court and claim the officers account is a lie with the proof you have, not only will you lose the case but you'll receive the maximum penalty. Any local judge hates defendants wasting court time contesting minor offences with purely hypothetical claims. He/she isn't interested in hearing about "but I was only in auto mode your honor".
Plead guilty, say little, pay the (probably lesser) fine and your in/out in 10 minutes. Been there, done that many times...
An odo reading you remember isn't enough evidence, put bluntly its just wasting the courts time. Did you explain these details to the reporting officer at the time of the offense? Did you lodge a complaint straight after at the station?
If you stand in court and claim the officers account is a lie with the proof you have, not only will you lose the case but you'll receive the maximum penalty. Any local judge hates defendants wasting court time contesting minor offences with purely hypothetical claims. He/she isn't interested in hearing about "but I was only in auto mode your honor".
Plead guilty, say little, pay the (probably lesser) fine and your in/out in 10 minutes. Been there, done that many times...
12-22-2001, 07:37 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 218
I say find out where the officer lives, tail him with a speed gun, then do a citizen's arrest as soon as he goes too fast! I've always wanted to try that. If all else fails, move to Mexico. Great weather, everything is cheap (EVEN CAR STUFF!), and you can buy the cops off! A speed demon's paradise! Be careful, though. The roads kinda suck down there. Pot holes the size of bath tubs. Good luck!
12-23-2001, 08:09 AM
#4
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Originally posted by lp
An odo reading you remember isn't enough evidence, put bluntly its just wasting the courts time. Did you explain these details to the reporting officer at the time of the offense? Did you lodge a complaint straight after at the station?
If you stand in court and claim the officers account is a lie with the proof you have, not only will you lose the case but you'll receive the maximum penalty. Any local judge hates defendants wasting court time contesting minor offences with purely hypothetical claims. He/she isn't interested in hearing about "but I was only in auto mode your honor".
An odo reading you remember isn't enough evidence, put bluntly its just wasting the courts time. Did you explain these details to the reporting officer at the time of the offense? Did you lodge a complaint straight after at the station?
If you stand in court and claim the officers account is a lie with the proof you have, not only will you lose the case but you'll receive the maximum penalty. Any local judge hates defendants wasting court time contesting minor offences with purely hypothetical claims. He/she isn't interested in hearing about "but I was only in auto mode your honor".
12-23-2001, 09:12 AM
#5
About the only things you can do if you actually weren't going that speed is to:
1. explain (as noted on the ticket) that heavy lunchimt traffic would actually prevent you from going that fast due to the amount of cars on the road.
2. 0.15 miles (you need to get EXACT numbers and/or pictures of where you were when he clocked you- which will be the hard part.
then make it very clear on just hwo hard it would be to hit 60mph by that point int he road if you'd pulled out of a gas station...
And I hope you have your receipt from whatever you bought at the gas station.. that will prove you were there, as a gas station clerk certainly won't remember you being there with the 100,000 people they see every day.
but take your car out and do a few trials on just how much it would take to get to 60mph on that road... do it in low/zero traffic times and just hope you don't get caught again there...
and it doesn't matter what's in your car or what it looks like or what mods the tranny was in.. the judge only cares if you were going that fast or not.
1. explain (as noted on the ticket) that heavy lunchimt traffic would actually prevent you from going that fast due to the amount of cars on the road.
2. 0.15 miles (you need to get EXACT numbers and/or pictures of where you were when he clocked you- which will be the hard part.
then make it very clear on just hwo hard it would be to hit 60mph by that point int he road if you'd pulled out of a gas station...
And I hope you have your receipt from whatever you bought at the gas station.. that will prove you were there, as a gas station clerk certainly won't remember you being there with the 100,000 people they see every day.
but take your car out and do a few trials on just how much it would take to get to 60mph on that road... do it in low/zero traffic times and just hope you don't get caught again there...
and it doesn't matter what's in your car or what it looks like or what mods the tranny was in.. the judge only cares if you were going that fast or not.
12-23-2001, 03:38 PM
#6
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Posts: 755
Your best shot at beating a speeding ticket is probably getting a lawyer. To begin with it gets you "into the system" since you are represented by someone in the system. Make sure the lawer does this all the time and is familiar with with the cops and judges. (He might want to get a postponment just to get a different judge.) The lawyer's primary tactic will be to attack the credibility of the officer (Where were you? Was your vision obstructed? How did you determine excessive speed? Where are the calibration reports for said device? Do you have a clear and independant recall of this, that and the other thing?) He will make the officer prove that you were guilty, and not that you were inoccent. Failing that, he might be able to negotiate some deal for you (going to a driving class).
You have to figure out what it's worth to you to avoid the ticket.
You have to figure out what it's worth to you to avoid the ticket.
12-23-2001, 06:24 PM
#7
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These are all great ideas. What I'd like to know is if anyone has any quantifiable data on 0-60 times, and distance requirements for a 93 GXE Auto? From a purely physics standpoint, what rate of acceleration would be necessary, and how hard would I have to drive the car to make it possible?
12-23-2001, 06:42 PM
#8
First, always plead not guilty, not responsible or however NC does it. Getting pictures of the area is a great idea. You can also go to the local library and look at back issues of Car and Driver, Road & Track or Motortrend to get acceleration data for your car. I would think the most important number in this case would be the 1/4 time and trap speed. The speed should be in the high 80's I think, so to get to 60 in .15 miles would pretty much be flat out acceleration for your car. You can ask the cop in court if he observed you pealing out or anything like that, because it would take a maximum performance launch to get that kind of performance.
You can also use the lunch time traffic thing to your advantage. Just how did he ID your car? Also, radar, when faced with rapidly accelerating or decelerating objects can get confused and multiply the actual speed reading.
For more information visit the National Motorist's Association at http://www.motorists.org . The sections on fighting a ticket and building a case are a great resource. In fact, even if you haven't gotten a ticket, it's a good idea to read through them so you are prepared when you do get stopped. I start preparing my defense when I see the lights behind me. So far I am at six stops, but my license is totally points free and the insurance companies don't get a dime from me that's not required.
Good luck, it sounds like a pretty bull**** ticket. I'd say something about cops here but Sprintmax would probably blow an artery
You can also use the lunch time traffic thing to your advantage. Just how did he ID your car? Also, radar, when faced with rapidly accelerating or decelerating objects can get confused and multiply the actual speed reading.
For more information visit the National Motorist's Association at http://www.motorists.org . The sections on fighting a ticket and building a case are a great resource. In fact, even if you haven't gotten a ticket, it's a good idea to read through them so you are prepared when you do get stopped. I start preparing my defense when I see the lights behind me. So far I am at six stops, but my license is totally points free and the insurance companies don't get a dime from me that's not required.
Good luck, it sounds like a pretty bull**** ticket. I'd say something about cops here but Sprintmax would probably blow an artery
12-23-2001, 06:44 PM
#9
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Posts: 262
Forget it. It's more trouble than it's worth. Lp is right, you'll just get in more trouble if you try and fight it. Your gonna end up spending more time trying to prove the cop wrong and fighting the case that's you're gonna realize it just wasn't worth it. Just walk in, plead guilty, and do some serious *** kissing. Say you were sorry, that you didn't realize that you were exceding the speed limit, you've never done it in the past, and you'll never do it again in the future. Say that you don't understand how you could have sped during lunchtime traffic, but if the cop says you were speeding, he must be right. (That's right, if you kiss up to the judge and the cop you more than likely end up getting out much better). If you try and fight, the judge will just think you're arogant and notice that you're just wasting his/her time.
My dad got stuck behind some old woman in front of him at the an airport once. The woman in front had stopped and my dad couldn't get around her. Some cop came up and ticketed my dad for a moving violation, stating that he was parked in a no-parking zone. My dad had been in drive and had pointed out that the woman in front was the problem, and the cop still ticketed him and not the woman. Now, my dad had all the reason to go in and fight it, but the ticket was for $15. Not worth his time or money.
Just remeber, in the court, 9 times out of 10, the cop is on the judges side.
My dad got stuck behind some old woman in front of him at the an airport once. The woman in front had stopped and my dad couldn't get around her. Some cop came up and ticketed my dad for a moving violation, stating that he was parked in a no-parking zone. My dad had been in drive and had pointed out that the woman in front was the problem, and the cop still ticketed him and not the woman. Now, my dad had all the reason to go in and fight it, but the ticket was for $15. Not worth his time or money.
Just remeber, in the court, 9 times out of 10, the cop is on the judges side.
12-23-2001, 06:54 PM
#10
Originally posted by Gamezilla
Forget it. It's more trouble than it's worth. Lp is right, you'll just get in more trouble if you try and fight it. Your gonna end up spending more time trying to prove the cop wrong and fighting the case that's you're gonna realize it just wasn't worth it. Just walk in, plead guilty, and do some serious *** kissing. Say you were sorry, that you didn't realize that you were exceding the speed limit, you've never done it in the past, and you'll never do it again in the future. Say that you don't understand how you could have sped during lunchtime traffic, but if the cop says you were speeding, he must be right. (That's right, if you kiss up to the judge and the cop you more than likely end up getting out much better). If you try and fight, the judge will just think you're arogant and notice that you're just wasting his/her time.
My dad got stuck behind some old woman in front of him at the an airport once. The woman in front had stopped and my dad couldn't get around her. Some cop came up and ticketed my dad for a moving violation, stating that he was parked in a no-parking zone. My dad had been in drive and had pointed out that the woman in front was the problem, and the cop still ticketed him and not the woman. Now, my dad had all the reason to go in and fight it, but the ticket was for $15. Not worth his time or money.
Just remeber, in the court, 9 times out of 10, the cop is on the judges side.
Forget it. It's more trouble than it's worth. Lp is right, you'll just get in more trouble if you try and fight it. Your gonna end up spending more time trying to prove the cop wrong and fighting the case that's you're gonna realize it just wasn't worth it. Just walk in, plead guilty, and do some serious *** kissing. Say you were sorry, that you didn't realize that you were exceding the speed limit, you've never done it in the past, and you'll never do it again in the future. Say that you don't understand how you could have sped during lunchtime traffic, but if the cop says you were speeding, he must be right. (That's right, if you kiss up to the judge and the cop you more than likely end up getting out much better). If you try and fight, the judge will just think you're arogant and notice that you're just wasting his/her time.
My dad got stuck behind some old woman in front of him at the an airport once. The woman in front had stopped and my dad couldn't get around her. Some cop came up and ticketed my dad for a moving violation, stating that he was parked in a no-parking zone. My dad had been in drive and had pointed out that the woman in front was the problem, and the cop still ticketed him and not the woman. Now, my dad had all the reason to go in and fight it, but the ticket was for $15. Not worth his time or money.
Just remeber, in the court, 9 times out of 10, the cop is on the judges side.
As far as wasting the judges time, as long as you dress nice and are very respectful and not arrogant, even if the cops are totally wrong and you want to tell them what they can go do with their night stick, most judges will treat you with respect back and at least hear you out. Hearing these cases is part of their job, you are not wasting their time, it is your right to a fair trial, just because you are fighting it doesn't mean you are arrogant, you are only putting the burden of proof on the cop in front of a supposedly impartial party.
12-23-2001, 07:17 PM
#11
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 132
Fight the Ticket!
It's a good idea to fight the ticket, its a good idea to contest any citation given to you by a cop. Just remember to be respectful. And remeber never argue with a cops, cops are not smart, thats why they make judges...
Did the officer afford you the chance to have him check is calibration. If not then you can say it was another car that he clocked due to the heavy lunchtime traffic, that is the best excuse. How much is the fine for, determines if you will need to higher a lawyer and how old are you. If you are young then you will see a very very sharp increase in insurance premium. If you or your family has a lawyer, its not a bad idead to call and just ask for a little advice.
How did you pay for your gas. If you put it on a credit or gas card then there is a record with that.
Did the officer afford you the chance to have him check is calibration. If not then you can say it was another car that he clocked due to the heavy lunchtime traffic, that is the best excuse. How much is the fine for, determines if you will need to higher a lawyer and how old are you. If you are young then you will see a very very sharp increase in insurance premium. If you or your family has a lawyer, its not a bad idead to call and just ask for a little advice.
How did you pay for your gas. If you put it on a credit or gas card then there is a record with that.
12-24-2001, 06:59 AM
#12
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 755
Do not try and prove that you car couldn't accelerate fast enough to have been speeding. The only valid proof would be to have the car independently tested, and have an expert witness give the results/present testimony. It shouldn't be "my word against his" either. The idea is to challenge/discredit the testimony/evidence of the the officer. You want "reasonable doubt" created in the mind of the judge. Officers testify all the time, and know how to do it. If you don't know how to "attack" them then get someone who can.
12-24-2001, 08:08 AM
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 518
Dude try this
I know in new jersey that i just worry about the points, so i would fight the ticket, if you win good, if you lose this is what you do. first when the bill comes to you, say it is 100 dollars then send them 102 dollars. this with work because when you get your 2 dollars in change back throw it away in the garbag, you will have paid up your dues, but the transaction would have not been completed so there will be no points awarded to you. that is if you don't mind paying the tickets. i can give a SH** about the money. but the points are what kill me. with the whole insurance going up and all. but this works. i have done it. if you need me the explain it more becasue i do such a cr@py job typing write me.
good luck
Patrick
good luck
Patrick
12-24-2001, 08:42 AM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 696
Re: Dude try this
Originally posted by whitymax
I know in new jersey that i just worry about the points, so i would fight the ticket, if you win good, if you lose this is what you do. first when the bill comes to you, say it is 100 dollars then send them 102 dollars. this with work because when you get your 2 dollars in change back throw it away in the garbag, you will have paid up your dues, but the transaction would have not been completed so there will be no points awarded to you. that is if you don't mind paying the tickets. i can give a SH** about the money. but the points are what kill me. with the whole insurance going up and all. but this works. i have done it. if you need me the explain it more becasue i do such a cr@py job typing write me.
good luck
Patrick
I know in new jersey that i just worry about the points, so i would fight the ticket, if you win good, if you lose this is what you do. first when the bill comes to you, say it is 100 dollars then send them 102 dollars. this with work because when you get your 2 dollars in change back throw it away in the garbag, you will have paid up your dues, but the transaction would have not been completed so there will be no points awarded to you. that is if you don't mind paying the tickets. i can give a SH** about the money. but the points are what kill me. with the whole insurance going up and all. but this works. i have done it. if you need me the explain it more becasue i do such a cr@py job typing write me.
good luck
Patrick
12-24-2001, 10:21 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 258
Published review
Does anyone know the magazine name and date of where I can find a article in which the 3rd Gen (preferably 93 GXE Auto) was reviewed. I have spent all day searching the web and this site for info, to no avail. I think I have enough information to put on a reasonable defense. Breifly, what I found out, is that in the distance that I traveled, 0.15 miles (729ft), it is highly unlikely that I could have been going that fast. The reason is that at 60mph, it would take 8.27 seconds to cover that distance, even at a constant rate of speed. Remember, I assert that I started from 0mph in this case. But IF I was going at a constant rate of speed it would take 8.27 seconds to travel the distance. In my in internet research, I found out that the published 0-60 time for the 94' Maxima SE was 8.8 seconds. Recall, that I have a GXE, AND I had 110lbs of extra **** in the trunk that day (I may be able to prove that as well).
I also have some other **** that I can throw in to help my case (LOL)(thanks to the member that published the site for defending your case, I aplologize for not remembering your name, but you and everyone else who has read this thread knows who you are).
I need a magazine article that provides performance data for the 93GXE.
I also have some other **** that I can throw in to help my case (LOL)(thanks to the member that published the site for defending your case, I aplologize for not remembering your name, but you and everyone else who has read this thread knows who you are).
I need a magazine article that provides performance data for the 93GXE.
12-24-2001, 12:06 PM
#16
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 132
Re: Dude try this
Originally posted by whitymax
I know in new jersey that i just worry about the points, so i would fight the ticket, if you win good, if you lose this is what you do. first when the bill comes to you, say it is 100 dollars then send them 102 dollars. this with work because when you get your 2 dollars in change back throw it away in the garbag, you will have paid up your dues, but the transaction would have not been completed so there will be no points awarded to you. that is if you don't mind paying the tickets. i can give a SH** about the money. but the points are what kill me. with the whole insurance going up and all. but this works. i have done it. if you need me the explain it more becasue i do such a cr@py job typing write me.
good luck
Patrick
I know in new jersey that i just worry about the points, so i would fight the ticket, if you win good, if you lose this is what you do. first when the bill comes to you, say it is 100 dollars then send them 102 dollars. this with work because when you get your 2 dollars in change back throw it away in the garbag, you will have paid up your dues, but the transaction would have not been completed so there will be no points awarded to you. that is if you don't mind paying the tickets. i can give a SH** about the money. but the points are what kill me. with the whole insurance going up and all. but this works. i have done it. if you need me the explain it more becasue i do such a cr@py job typing write me.
good luck
Patrick
12-24-2001, 12:13 PM
#17
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 64
Re: Re: Dude try this
Originally posted by noleafclover
i don't think i'm the only one here who would like this explained a little better. thanks...
i don't think i'm the only one here who would like this explained a little better. thanks...
Originally published in 2600 magazine
Have you ever had a traffic ticket? Well, I for one have, and a lot of tmy friends have as well. I have also found a major flaw in the Ohio computer systems that control the "points" you receive when you get a ticket. This may work in other states, although it has not been tested. Now here's how it goes. If you are over 18, then this pretains to you because minors have to appear in court. So you get your ticket, let's say for $100.00 to make it simple. Now you have chosen to pay by mail. You write the check for $105.00 (accidentally - wink wink), then you mail it in right on time. In a few days you will receive a check for $5.00. Don't cash it. This will show the computer that you paid, but it won't actually be finalized so no points will be put on your license. I have had several friends try this and it worked for them.
~otacon~
It's somehow heartening to think of people all over the country rushing out to get moving violations so they can test out this theroy.
Have you ever had a traffic ticket? Well, I for one have, and a lot of tmy friends have as well. I have also found a major flaw in the Ohio computer systems that control the "points" you receive when you get a ticket. This may work in other states, although it has not been tested. Now here's how it goes. If you are over 18, then this pretains to you because minors have to appear in court. So you get your ticket, let's say for $100.00 to make it simple. Now you have chosen to pay by mail. You write the check for $105.00 (accidentally - wink wink), then you mail it in right on time. In a few days you will receive a check for $5.00. Don't cash it. This will show the computer that you paid, but it won't actually be finalized so no points will be put on your license. I have had several friends try this and it worked for them.
~otacon~
It's somehow heartening to think of people all over the country rushing out to get moving violations so they can test out this theroy.
-Mwb90SE
12-24-2001, 01:35 PM
#18
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 231
My my driver's seat you have several options:
1. Pay the ticket and insurance surchange
2. Hire a lawyer to make it disappear before it goes to court.
3. Hire a lawyer to go to court.
4. Go to court and hope for a no show and OBJECT to a continuance because of the no show.
5. Go to court and plea your case. My experience in a small town has been BAD--Even when another cop give a sworn written statement to say that the cop giving the ticket refused to properly take his statement and now is fabricating his statement. The judge disallows the honest cops written sworn statement. Then two other witness' the city attorney has called said the cop is also fabricating their statements and that the physical evidence clearly shows that it's a fabrication. The judge just tries to calm down the audience (who has be gasping because of the cop's lies) by saying the cop just misunderstood the statement and no falsifacation was intended. Not guilty. No reprimading of the lying cop.
1. Pay the ticket and insurance surchange
2. Hire a lawyer to make it disappear before it goes to court.
3. Hire a lawyer to go to court.
4. Go to court and hope for a no show and OBJECT to a continuance because of the no show.
5. Go to court and plea your case. My experience in a small town has been BAD--Even when another cop give a sworn written statement to say that the cop giving the ticket refused to properly take his statement and now is fabricating his statement. The judge disallows the honest cops written sworn statement. Then two other witness' the city attorney has called said the cop is also fabricating their statements and that the physical evidence clearly shows that it's a fabrication. The judge just tries to calm down the audience (who has be gasping because of the cop's lies) by saying the cop just misunderstood the statement and no falsifacation was intended. Not guilty. No reprimading of the lying cop.
12-24-2001, 04:43 PM
#19
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Re: Help me beat a speeding ticket
According to Mike (cumalot), he says he gives the ticket to a lawyer for a small fee and they take care of it. Maybe you can try that instead of paying over $100.00 you can just pay a lawyer a smaller amount etc..
12-25-2001, 12:55 PM
#20
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Re: Re: Help me beat a speeding ticket
Originally posted by JAY25
According to Mike (cumalot), he says he gives the ticket to a lawyer for a small fee and they take care of it. Maybe you can try that instead of paying over $100.00 you can just pay a lawyer a smaller amount etc..
According to Mike (cumalot), he says he gives the ticket to a lawyer for a small fee and they take care of it. Maybe you can try that instead of paying over $100.00 you can just pay a lawyer a smaller amount etc..
12-26-2001, 02:04 PM
#21
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 231
Re: Re: Re: Help me beat a speeding ticket
I forgot who said this "a man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a lawyer." Haven't seen very many lawyers sell out their client, but lots of lazy ones. For making the ticket disappear, it more of who they know. They may get the charges dropped and just pay a court cost plus "fees." No trial, no fuss, no insurance hikes. The insurance hike may be much more than the legal fees.
In large cities, it's more likely to get a judge to hear your side. However, then cities and counties are hurting for money ...
In large cities, it's more likely to get a judge to hear your side. However, then cities and counties are hurting for money ...
Originally posted by Jaybird180
I have more confidence in myself than some bonehead lawyer, who I don't even know, and who gets paid whether I win or loose. He has nothing to gain. Got any better ideas?
I have more confidence in myself than some bonehead lawyer, who I don't even know, and who gets paid whether I win or loose. He has nothing to gain. Got any better ideas?
12-26-2001, 02:09 PM
#22
I'd say he has a decent case IF he does his ALL of his research. If he just shows up and says "no way my car can accelerate that fast", you are toast.(they would probably reduce it anyway though just for showing up) You have to get some 0-60 times or 0-xxx distance times from a reputable magazine and then accurately clock off the distance etc.., like the others have said. I have successfully defended myself many times in court.
For the guy who wants to send it $105 instead of $100, I think the court will just keep your $5 and now you are out $105 instead of $100. You just bought the clerk a Latte.
For the guy who wants to send it $105 instead of $100, I think the court will just keep your $5 and now you are out $105 instead of $100. You just bought the clerk a Latte.
12-27-2001, 06:20 AM
#23
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 755
A magazine road test might score points in a schoolyard discussion, but will prove nothing in court. You need certified data for your particular car. Numbers in a magazine: aren't for your car, aren't of "evidence grade" validity anyway. Even if you could get "good" numbers, you would still have to prove that the car, as tested, was unchanged from when you were cited.
Unless you can get the officer to testify that you went from speed x to speed y in z feet, and that calculates to an acceleration of greater than 1g (something that "on the face of it" doesn't seem reasonable), don't proceed down the "my car can't do that" path.
Unless you can get the officer to testify that you went from speed x to speed y in z feet, and that calculates to an acceleration of greater than 1g (something that "on the face of it" doesn't seem reasonable), don't proceed down the "my car can't do that" path.
12-27-2001, 10:36 AM
#24
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 231
Actually on judge did buy the arguement that "Have you every tried to go down that road in a ___ at 50 mhp? The judge (in L.A.) dismissed the case."
Any thing to create reasonable doubt.
I had another lying small town cop, who said he clocked my car at 44 mph at the bottom of the hill. Then writes 49 mph on the ticket. Then changes it back to 44 mph by the hearing time. Looking at the way the judge was ruling on other cases, I figured I was wasting my time in that K court. I should have asked for a trial and hoped for a no show. $15 fine, $30 court cost and extra $150 per year for 3 years insurance (1st conviction).
Another way (if they do this in your county) is to contact the city attorney's assistant (or assignee) to see it you can go to traffic school plus a fee and have the ticket dismissed.
Any thing to create reasonable doubt.
I had another lying small town cop, who said he clocked my car at 44 mph at the bottom of the hill. Then writes 49 mph on the ticket. Then changes it back to 44 mph by the hearing time. Looking at the way the judge was ruling on other cases, I figured I was wasting my time in that K court. I should have asked for a trial and hoped for a no show. $15 fine, $30 court cost and extra $150 per year for 3 years insurance (1st conviction).
Another way (if they do this in your county) is to contact the city attorney's assistant (or assignee) to see it you can go to traffic school plus a fee and have the ticket dismissed.
Originally posted by brubenstein
Unless you can get the officer to testify that you went from speed x to speed y in z feet, and that calculates to an acceleration of greater than 1g (something that "on the face of it" doesn't seem reasonable), don't proceed down the "my car can't do that" path.
Unless you can get the officer to testify that you went from speed x to speed y in z feet, and that calculates to an acceleration of greater than 1g (something that "on the face of it" doesn't seem reasonable), don't proceed down the "my car can't do that" path.
12-27-2001, 10:52 AM
#25
The rules in Traffic court are not the same as normal(?) court. Only only have to convince the judge of reasonable doubt. Why can't a magazine be used as long as it's in your favor. The judge will see the magazine as a reasonably reliable source. It's about 10x better then 90% of the crap he hears all day. As far as the specific car's performance, the judge will probably just accept the magazine car and real car as reasonably close, unless the officer noted some serious performance items on the specific car.
Officer's claim. Well the officer noted where he clocked him and the defendant noted(or can prove) where he came from. If that distance is short than the defendant can reasonable judge the distance in which he must have been able to go xxx mph within. Of course there is leaway but I would fudge in the shorter side to strengthen my case right? If the officer can't recall the exact spot where he stopped the defendant, then he doesn't really have much to dispute correct? I have never seen the officer's notes exactly describe the spot where someone was clocked(the place where the officer is sitting is even different than the place where he clocked the defendant making the distance even shorter). One can also request all of the officer's notes anyway, so you can see what he wrote.
I've gone though this process too many times, I think I know what would fly and what wouldn't. Alot of it is how the judge feels that day, how you treat him and how good the evidence is. The evidence doesn't have to be rock solid and have 10 scientists backing it up in court. But it does have to show reasonable accuracy and effort on the defendant's side.
Officer's claim. Well the officer noted where he clocked him and the defendant noted(or can prove) where he came from. If that distance is short than the defendant can reasonable judge the distance in which he must have been able to go xxx mph within. Of course there is leaway but I would fudge in the shorter side to strengthen my case right? If the officer can't recall the exact spot where he stopped the defendant, then he doesn't really have much to dispute correct? I have never seen the officer's notes exactly describe the spot where someone was clocked(the place where the officer is sitting is even different than the place where he clocked the defendant making the distance even shorter). One can also request all of the officer's notes anyway, so you can see what he wrote.
I've gone though this process too many times, I think I know what would fly and what wouldn't. Alot of it is how the judge feels that day, how you treat him and how good the evidence is. The evidence doesn't have to be rock solid and have 10 scientists backing it up in court. But it does have to show reasonable accuracy and effort on the defendant's side.
Originally posted by brubenstein
A magazine road test might score points in a schoolyard discussion, but will prove nothing in court. You need certified data for your particular car. Numbers in a magazine: aren't for your car, aren't of "evidence grade" validity anyway. Even if you could get "good" numbers, you would still have to prove that the car, as tested, was unchanged from when you were cited.
Unless you can get the officer to testify that you went from speed x to speed y in z feet, and that calculates to an acceleration of greater than 1g (something that "on the face of it" doesn't seem reasonable), don't proceed down the "my car can't do that" path.
A magazine road test might score points in a schoolyard discussion, but will prove nothing in court. You need certified data for your particular car. Numbers in a magazine: aren't for your car, aren't of "evidence grade" validity anyway. Even if you could get "good" numbers, you would still have to prove that the car, as tested, was unchanged from when you were cited.
Unless you can get the officer to testify that you went from speed x to speed y in z feet, and that calculates to an acceleration of greater than 1g (something that "on the face of it" doesn't seem reasonable), don't proceed down the "my car can't do that" path.
12-27-2001, 11:06 AM
#26
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 231
Originally posted by Jeff92se
The ..... Alot of it is how the judge feels that day,
The ..... Alot of it is how the judge feels that day,
I really feel that if not for the observers in court and having to rule in front of them, the judge would have ruled guilt even when the off-duty cop, and two eye witnesses said that the lying cop made up their statements.
12-27-2001, 11:12 AM
#27
Not really what I was getting at though. If the judge is in a bad mood, then you could have a pretty good case and the judge could rule against you. I would NOT really go, "the officer was lying route". That shows alot of disrespect(even if it's justified). I would go "the equipment the officer was using must have malfunctioned in some way or he made a mistake in reading the gun". Or better yet, don't even mention it at all. Just state that your car cannot accelerate that fast given the distance and given the manner the defendent pulled out of the driveway. I would leave the all the implications to the judge. You don't have to prove anything. You just have to introduce enought reasonable doubt and hope the judge sides with you.
Originally posted by OnTheRoad
You hit it on the head and if the judge will be embarrased by an unjust ruling. Observers help in court. The worse kind of ruling is generated when the judges mail out their judgements.
I really feel that if not for the observers in court and having to rule in front of them, the judge would have ruled guilt even when the off-duty cop, and two eye witnesses said that the lying cop made up their statements.
You hit it on the head and if the judge will be embarrased by an unjust ruling. Observers help in court. The worse kind of ruling is generated when the judges mail out their judgements.
I really feel that if not for the observers in court and having to rule in front of them, the judge would have ruled guilt even when the off-duty cop, and two eye witnesses said that the lying cop made up their statements.
12-27-2001, 04:51 PM
#28
Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 231
You don't say the cop is lying. Only show that what she/he said is inconsistant with the other witness, physical evidence, etc. They may be friends, relatives of the judge. In the case of the lying cop and accident, the off duty cop wrote out the inconsistances (judge would not allow it to be admitted into evidence). Two other witnesses emphatically said that police report was opposite of what they said and they don't need the other cop's written statement, because they remember and then pointed out the photo's to prove the police report account is inaccurate. I thank the city attorney/proc. for proving for those two witnesses. I thought the sworn statement by the off duty cop was my ace, but it turned out the witness were even better and I didn't even think of calling them. Didn't even have to ask or point it out, they saw the ticket and court as an unjust trial.
The cop and the city attorney said that they both tried to contact the off duty cop from a neighboring town but could find him. Didn't bring it up, but How was it that a private citzen had very little trouble phone him, faxing the police report to him and having him write a swore statement. After reading the police report, the off duty cop became highly motivated. "The other drive must be connected, but....what is right is right and what's wrong is wrong."
As for equip. malfunction, see the radar defense web site for info (written by a lawyer).
What town is the ticket from?
The cop and the city attorney said that they both tried to contact the off duty cop from a neighboring town but could find him. Didn't bring it up, but How was it that a private citzen had very little trouble phone him, faxing the police report to him and having him write a swore statement. After reading the police report, the off duty cop became highly motivated. "The other drive must be connected, but....what is right is right and what's wrong is wrong."
As for equip. malfunction, see the radar defense web site for info (written by a lawyer).
What town is the ticket from?
12-28-2001, 06:16 AM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 258
This has become a very interesting discussion. Reading it, I think I will go with the "the officer may have clocked someone, but it wasn't me because..." defense. But I am thinking of getting a lawyer...just thinking...real hard.
12-28-2001, 12:27 PM
#30
Originally posted by Jaybird180
This has become a very interesting discussion. Reading it, I think I will go with the "the officer may have clocked someone, but it wasn't me because..." defense. But I am thinking of getting a lawyer...just thinking...real hard.
This has become a very interesting discussion. Reading it, I think I will go with the "the officer may have clocked someone, but it wasn't me because..." defense. But I am thinking of getting a lawyer...just thinking...real hard.
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