89 maxima will run fine if I add injector cleaner but rough without it.
03-24-2014, 05:03 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
89 maxima will run fine if I add injector cleaner but rough without it.
I have only done this twice as too many times would not be good for it, but noticed anytime I put injector cleaner into the tank it will run very well, If I run it on a regular tank of 87 it seems to idle roughly and jerk when it accelerates.
The battery was drained when I left the headlights on after the end of a long drive (was a long day) for about a half an hour and I noticed the problems then, but I would think that would be unrelated. Though it is 6 years old.
I know it sounds noobish, better with computers then I am with cars.
The battery was drained when I left the headlights on after the end of a long drive (was a long day) for about a half an hour and I noticed the problems then, but I would think that would be unrelated. Though it is 6 years old.
I know it sounds noobish, better with computers then I am with cars.
Last edited by RaptonX; 03-24-2014 at 05:06 PM.
03-24-2014, 05:31 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: El Barrio N.Y.C
Posts: 333
I have only done this twice as too many times would not be good for it, but noticed anytime I put injector cleaner into the tank it will run very well, If I run it on a regular tank of 87 it seems to idle roughly and jerk when it accelerates.
The battery was drained when I left the headlights on after the end of a long drive (was a long day) for about a half an hour and I noticed the problems then, but I would think that would be unrelated. Though it is 6 years old.
I know it sounds noobish, better with computers then I am with cars.
The battery was drained when I left the headlights on after the end of a long drive (was a long day) for about a half an hour and I noticed the problems then, but I would think that would be unrelated. Though it is 6 years old.
I know it sounds noobish, better with computers then I am with cars.
03-24-2014, 07:09 PM
#4
As far as I know, you're supposed to be running premium anyways, at least according to my owners manual.
Yeah its more expensive, yeah it sucks, but the higher octane may very well be the solution to the problem - some cars can run on lower than recommended octane just fine, some cars don't. I haven't had good experiences running anything lower than premium which around here is 91 octane.
Yeah its more expensive, yeah it sucks, but the higher octane may very well be the solution to the problem - some cars can run on lower than recommended octane just fine, some cars don't. I haven't had good experiences running anything lower than premium which around here is 91 octane.
03-25-2014, 08:19 AM
#6
As far as I know, you're supposed to be running premium anyways, at least according to my owners manual.
Yeah its more expensive, yeah it sucks, but the higher octane may very well be the solution to the problem - some cars can run on lower than recommended octane just fine, some cars don't. I haven't had good experiences running anything lower than premium which around here is 91 octane.
Yeah its more expensive, yeah it sucks, but the higher octane may very well be the solution to the problem - some cars can run on lower than recommended octane just fine, some cars don't. I haven't had good experiences running anything lower than premium which around here is 91 octane.
people think higher octane higher the power but it's not true. octane level more or less tells you how resistant the fuel is to igniting when it's not supposed to...IE detonation. generally if your vehicle is not set to run on premium the timing is not set/programmed to advance to give you additional power when it's on higher octane.
the plus side is that usually gas companies will mix a bit of detergent or additive to premium fuel compared to just regular.
03-25-2014, 01:34 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
The battery is very old so, should I rule out driving it around charged up the battery enough?
Drove on 87 for years though, maybe that is why gas is cheaper now.
03-25-2014, 03:46 PM
#8
i don't believe premium is required for the VG motors.
people think higher octane higher the power but it's not true. octane level more or less tells you how resistant the fuel is to igniting when it's not supposed to...IE detonation. generally if your vehicle is not set to run on premium the timing is not set/programmed to advance to give you additional power when it's on higher octane.
the plus side is that usually gas companies will mix a bit of detergent or additive to premium fuel compared to just regular.
people think higher octane higher the power but it's not true. octane level more or less tells you how resistant the fuel is to igniting when it's not supposed to...IE detonation. generally if your vehicle is not set to run on premium the timing is not set/programmed to advance to give you additional power when it's on higher octane.
the plus side is that usually gas companies will mix a bit of detergent or additive to premium fuel compared to just regular.
As for whether the VG needs premium, my experiences and my owners manual indicate it does. It pings and misfires below 91. Blegh.
03-25-2014, 04:31 PM
#9
OP, I'm in Southern California too. By chance, do you buy your gas exclusively from Mobil? I know you guys are going to call me crazy, but I've gotten bad gas from Mobile on a few occasions (car studdering, lack of power) over the years. As a result, I avoid Mobil gas stations and buy my gas at either Chevron or Shell.
03-26-2014, 05:57 AM
#10
I'm starting to think it is watered down all over the place in Southern California as after I put in Mobile 91 and drove it down the street, then back up again to my house, let it idle for a bit too, then took off again, seemed ok.
The battery is very old so, should I rule out driving it around charged up the battery enough?
Drove on 87 for years though, maybe that is why gas is cheaper now.
The battery is very old so, should I rule out driving it around charged up the battery enough?
Drove on 87 for years though, maybe that is why gas is cheaper now.
03-26-2014, 07:13 AM
#11
Premium, mid grade and regular are identical as far as additives, excepting the octane rating, which provides resistance to premature detonation. Technically speaking, in a motor requiring premium, running regular would theoretically produce less power due to potential premature detonation if the timing/tune isn't set up for it. Most high performance/boosted engines call for premium because of the higher heat and compression, necessitating the higher octane to run properly. Myself, I stick to recommended since the savings is so miniscule vs potential problems further down the road running a lesser grade fuel.
As for whether the VG needs premium, my experiences and my owners manual indicate it does. It pings and misfires below 91. Blegh.
As for whether the VG needs premium, my experiences and my owners manual indicate it does. It pings and misfires below 91. Blegh.
well the VG motors do not require premium fuel unless you can prove me otherwise...it might be "recommended" but it's not required. it may benefit from using premium fuel but that's if you're knocking with regular.
boosted cars are tuned for higher performance fuel due to hotter intake air and the heat it causes from pressurizing the intake charge. high performance cars have higher compression ratios. the VG30E motor in the 3rd gen is neither of these (9.0:1CR).
get whatever fuel you like but make no mistake premium fuel is NOT a requirement for the 3rd gen VG motors. go look in your owners manual and take a pic of the page that it shows you that. another hint that it's not required...IF premium is required it would say "premium unleaded fuel only" on the dash or the gas door..i don't see it.
it's listed as regular fuel here: (of course they may be wrong but i'm going to check my manual tonight)
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/maxima...res-specs.html
info on the gas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline
Top Tier gasoline contains higher levels of detergent additives in order to prevent the build-up of engine "gunk," known to reduce fuel economy and engine performance, and possibly lead to mechanical breakdown. The Top Tier designation is separate from the issue of octane levels—in order to get the designation, gasoline companies must pass tests proving defined levels of engine-cleaning effectiveness in all grades of gasoline they sell, whether it is economy (low-octane) or premium (high-octane). However, premium gasolines may contain even higher levels of detergent additives.
03-26-2014, 07:25 AM
#12
i always thought premium have more detergent or better additives.
well the VG motors do not require premium fuel unless you can prove me otherwise...it might be "recommended" but it's not required. it may benefit from using premium fuel but that's if you're knocking with regular.
boosted cars are tuned for higher performance fuel due to hotter intake air and the heat it causes from pressurizing the intake charge. high performance cars have higher compression ratios. the VG30E motor in the 3rd gen is neither of these (9.0:1CR).
get whatever fuel you like but make no mistake premium fuel is NOT a requirement for the 3rd gen VG motors. go look in your owners manual and take a pic of the page that it shows you that. another hint that it's not required...IF premium is required it would say "premium unleaded fuel only" on the dash or the gas door..i don't see it.
it's listed as regular fuel here: (of course they may be wrong but i'm going to check my manual tonight)
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/maxima...res-specs.html
info on the gas:
Top Tier Detergent Gasoline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
so you're right they add it to all the gas (assuming it's top tier)...premium got more detergent.
well the VG motors do not require premium fuel unless you can prove me otherwise...it might be "recommended" but it's not required. it may benefit from using premium fuel but that's if you're knocking with regular.
boosted cars are tuned for higher performance fuel due to hotter intake air and the heat it causes from pressurizing the intake charge. high performance cars have higher compression ratios. the VG30E motor in the 3rd gen is neither of these (9.0:1CR).
get whatever fuel you like but make no mistake premium fuel is NOT a requirement for the 3rd gen VG motors. go look in your owners manual and take a pic of the page that it shows you that. another hint that it's not required...IF premium is required it would say "premium unleaded fuel only" on the dash or the gas door..i don't see it.
it's listed as regular fuel here: (of course they may be wrong but i'm going to check my manual tonight)
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/maxima...res-specs.html
info on the gas:
Top Tier Detergent Gasoline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
so you're right they add it to all the gas (assuming it's top tier)...premium got more detergent.
Besides, by all technicalities, premium isn't a requirement for even boosted out high compression motors. They can and will run on regular with proper tuning.
Last edited by Levsimus; 03-26-2014 at 07:28 AM.
03-26-2014, 07:31 AM
#13
I am well aware of the compression ratio of the motor - I stick to the book and the results. I don't buy premium because I like spending more money on fuel that is no different that regular unleaded, I do it because it's what the car needs. Anything less than premium in my car results in running issues. The car likes premium, it gets premium. Simple as that.
Besides, by all technicalities, premium isn't a requirement for even boosted out high compression motors. They can and will run on regular with proper tuning.
Besides, by all technicalities, premium isn't a requirement for even boosted out high compression motors. They can and will run on regular with proper tuning.
yes if you run regular gas on a car that requires premium then the ecu will dial back timing due to knock...hence loss in performance. the stock ECU of the maxima is not set to run on premium unless JWT ECU is installed.
03-26-2014, 09:42 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: El Barrio N.Y.C
Posts: 333
I am well aware of the compression ratio of the motor - I stick to the book and the results. I don't buy premium because I like spending more money on fuel that is no different that regular unleaded, I do it because it's what the car needs. Anything less than premium in my car results in running issues. The car likes premium, it gets premium. Simple as that.
Besides, by all technicalities, premium isn't a requirement for even boosted out high compression motors. They can and will run on regular with proper tuning.
Besides, by all technicalities, premium isn't a requirement for even boosted out high compression motors. They can and will run on regular with proper tuning.
03-26-2014, 10:18 AM
#17
you use premium because you feel it's better and you can absorb the extra cost...great. do you change your oil at 3000 miles also?
and FWIW if someone drives their car over 30K a year...those extra 3 bucks per fill up can really add up.
03-26-2014, 10:21 AM
#18
(yeah it's a slow day at work for me)
03-26-2014, 02:25 PM
#19
well the discussion is that you argue that the VG30E NEEDS premium and the OP's car will not run correctly with regular gas. my side is that the car should run fine with regular gas and his issues are not gas related unless fuel was contaminated.
(yeah it's a slow day at work for me)
(yeah it's a slow day at work for me)
One of those unintentional problems is indeed knocking, pinging and running issues that are resolved with increased octane. To that end, you could reasonably, and justifiably argue a timing issue or a failing knock sensor as well, which depending on how the timing is set, would potentially also disappear with increased octane. Other issues may be symptoms such as reduced fuel economy and reduced power.
I didn't engineer the engine, I don't claim it to make sense, nor does Nissan presumably have any real benefit to gain by recommending a higher octane fuel to be used in the VG30E powered Maxima. Nowhere on my car does it indicate that I am to run 91 or better. Does the car need it? No, but nary a car on the road needs premium to get around - but it would certainly benefit from running the intended fuel. If I used the word "need" or "require" I have misused the terms and apologize for the misunderstanding to that end. The car will run on 87, hell it it'll run on even lower octane. When I first drove it home, my car ran on whatever degraded, dark brown varnished swill sat in the gas tank for six and a half years, it ran like **** and was difficult to start, but it drove nonetheless.
So again, based on his statements (issue is resolved with octane increase) and what I know to be true based on hard facts stated in my owners manual (I can even call Nissan technical tomorrow when I get to the shop, if it is necessary for me to get the information straight from Nissan themselves) the VG30E, at least in the 1990 manual, is INTENDED to run premium but CAN run 87 assuming all of the electronics are functioning, as would any car with a functioning knock sensor, among other things. Without one, you would likely need to manually adjust the timing to provide similar results. My implication that the car will not run correctly wasn't wrong when you consider the basis for my idea of "running correctly" is that the vehicle runs as the manufacturer intended it to. They intended for it to use higher octane fuel, but designed the system to be able to work with 87 if that is what is in the vehicle by way of altering timing to reduce knocking. Relying on the knock sensor to compensate for lower octane fuel is not something I consider "running correctly" but this is more a matter of personal definitions than any real factual matter.
The only reason I suggested fuel octane as being a potential issue is purely due to the wording of the OP - I do not condone, swear by or otherwise like running premium in any vehicle I own. I do it because my car seems to run best on it compared to 87 and 89. Nothing more, nothing less - that the owner's manual recommends it justifies the decision further as I'd rather my car run at its best, even if it ends up costing me a little more for the peace of mind having less ethanol eating my fuel system up. It sucks paying more for gas, but it is what it is.
Respectfully, I do not see a need to continually go around and around on the subject. We will have to agree to disagree on the matter.
As for working... likewise. Its been a slow day for me as well, so I left work early since I had nothing to do at the shop
waiting on approvals left and right, what we do have approval on still awaiting parts, and what IS in the process of repairs is waiting on the painter. Shame it wasn't a Friday, three day weekend would be killer!
Last edited by Levsimus; 03-26-2014 at 02:29 PM.
03-27-2014, 06:54 AM
#21
"Needs" referring to my presumable misuse of the word "requires" and/or "needs", which would certainly be my mistake. The correct way for me to have expressed it would have been the the car was intended to run premium, and while not required, will not run as intended by the manufacturer if running a lesser octane fuel.
One of those unintentional problems is indeed knocking, pinging and running issues that are resolved with increased octane. To that end, you could reasonably, and justifiably argue a timing issue or a failing knock sensor as well, which depending on how the timing is set, would potentially also disappear with increased octane. Other issues may be symptoms such as reduced fuel economy and reduced power.
I didn't engineer the engine, I don't claim it to make sense, nor does Nissan presumably have any real benefit to gain by recommending a higher octane fuel to be used in the VG30E powered Maxima. Nowhere on my car does it indicate that I am to run 91 or better. Does the car need it? No, but nary a car on the road needs premium to get around - but it would certainly benefit from running the intended fuel. If I used the word "need" or "require" I have misused the terms and apologize for the misunderstanding to that end. The car will run on 87, hell it it'll run on even lower octane. When I first drove it home, my car ran on whatever degraded, dark brown varnished swill sat in the gas tank for six and a half years, it ran like **** and was difficult to start, but it drove nonetheless.
So again, based on his statements (issue is resolved with octane increase) and what I know to be true based on hard facts stated in my owners manual (I can even call Nissan technical tomorrow when I get to the shop, if it is necessary for me to get the information straight from Nissan themselves) the VG30E, at least in the 1990 manual, is INTENDED to run premium but CAN run 87 assuming all of the electronics are functioning, as would any car with a functioning knock sensor, among other things. Without one, you would likely need to manually adjust the timing to provide similar results. My implication that the car will not run correctly wasn't wrong when you consider the basis for my idea of "running correctly" is that the vehicle runs as the manufacturer intended it to. They intended for it to use higher octane fuel, but designed the system to be able to work with 87 if that is what is in the vehicle by way of altering timing to reduce knocking. Relying on the knock sensor to compensate for lower octane fuel is not something I consider "running correctly" but this is more a matter of personal definitions than any real factual matter.
The only reason I suggested fuel octane as being a potential issue is purely due to the wording of the OP - I do not condone, swear by or otherwise like running premium in any vehicle I own. I do it because my car seems to run best on it compared to 87 and 89. Nothing more, nothing less - that the owner's manual recommends it justifies the decision further as I'd rather my car run at its best, even if it ends up costing me a little more for the peace of mind having less ethanol eating my fuel system up. It sucks paying more for gas, but it is what it is.
Respectfully, I do not see a need to continually go around and around on the subject. We will have to agree to disagree on the matter.
As for working... likewise. Its been a slow day for me as well, so I left work early since I had nothing to do at the shop waiting on approvals left and right, what we do have approval on still awaiting parts, and what IS in the process of repairs is waiting on the painter. Shame it wasn't a Friday, three day weekend would be killer!
One of those unintentional problems is indeed knocking, pinging and running issues that are resolved with increased octane. To that end, you could reasonably, and justifiably argue a timing issue or a failing knock sensor as well, which depending on how the timing is set, would potentially also disappear with increased octane. Other issues may be symptoms such as reduced fuel economy and reduced power.
I didn't engineer the engine, I don't claim it to make sense, nor does Nissan presumably have any real benefit to gain by recommending a higher octane fuel to be used in the VG30E powered Maxima. Nowhere on my car does it indicate that I am to run 91 or better. Does the car need it? No, but nary a car on the road needs premium to get around - but it would certainly benefit from running the intended fuel. If I used the word "need" or "require" I have misused the terms and apologize for the misunderstanding to that end. The car will run on 87, hell it it'll run on even lower octane. When I first drove it home, my car ran on whatever degraded, dark brown varnished swill sat in the gas tank for six and a half years, it ran like **** and was difficult to start, but it drove nonetheless.
So again, based on his statements (issue is resolved with octane increase) and what I know to be true based on hard facts stated in my owners manual (I can even call Nissan technical tomorrow when I get to the shop, if it is necessary for me to get the information straight from Nissan themselves) the VG30E, at least in the 1990 manual, is INTENDED to run premium but CAN run 87 assuming all of the electronics are functioning, as would any car with a functioning knock sensor, among other things. Without one, you would likely need to manually adjust the timing to provide similar results. My implication that the car will not run correctly wasn't wrong when you consider the basis for my idea of "running correctly" is that the vehicle runs as the manufacturer intended it to. They intended for it to use higher octane fuel, but designed the system to be able to work with 87 if that is what is in the vehicle by way of altering timing to reduce knocking. Relying on the knock sensor to compensate for lower octane fuel is not something I consider "running correctly" but this is more a matter of personal definitions than any real factual matter.
The only reason I suggested fuel octane as being a potential issue is purely due to the wording of the OP - I do not condone, swear by or otherwise like running premium in any vehicle I own. I do it because my car seems to run best on it compared to 87 and 89. Nothing more, nothing less - that the owner's manual recommends it justifies the decision further as I'd rather my car run at its best, even if it ends up costing me a little more for the peace of mind having less ethanol eating my fuel system up. It sucks paying more for gas, but it is what it is.
Respectfully, I do not see a need to continually go around and around on the subject. We will have to agree to disagree on the matter.
As for working... likewise. Its been a slow day for me as well, so I left work early since I had nothing to do at the shop
waiting on approvals left and right, what we do have approval on still awaiting parts, and what IS in the process of repairs is waiting on the painter. Shame it wasn't a Friday, three day weekend would be killer! 
yeah thanks for your contribution.
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