Japanese Vs Cheap China wheel bearing
#1
Japanese Vs Cheap China wheel bearing
My wheel bearing went out last week so I ordered wheel hub & bearing off eBay for only $75. http://www.ebay.com/itm/141269989755?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I happened to have a made in Japan Federal-Mogul bearing I won on Ebay about a year ago for $10 (see below)
Here's the cheap China one that came with the bearing:
Side-by-side: (Japan left, China on right)
I dunno about you lot, but NFW am I gonna put that piece of crap on my car.
It's a fugazi
No seals either, guess you get what you pay for, but at least the hub looks decent:
I happened to have a made in Japan Federal-Mogul bearing I won on Ebay about a year ago for $10 (see below)
Here's the cheap China one that came with the bearing:
Side-by-side: (Japan left, China on right)
I dunno about you lot, but NFW am I gonna put that piece of crap on my car.
It's a fugazi
No seals either, guess you get what you pay for, but at least the hub looks decent:
#3
#4
OMG! Now that I've examined them, they're aluminum studs, WTF????? FALSE ALARM MAGNET SAYS THEY'RE STEEL.
Last edited by londonflu; 09-10-2015 at 07:52 PM.
#5
Why in the world did you get a new hub? Reuse the old one, not that POS. That bearing does look a little suspect, but I also bought $10 bearings off ebay and the look nearly identical to the NSK, which actually didn't even need replaced, and I think the inner race just came apart due to my ****ed up toe that I was driving on for far too long.
#6
Why in the world did you get a new hub? Reuse the old one, not that POS. That bearing does look a little suspect, but I also bought $10 bearings off ebay and the look nearly identical to the NSK, which actually didn't even need replaced, and I think the inner race just came apart due to my ****ed up toe that I was driving on for far too long.
Last edited by londonflu; 09-11-2015 at 06:57 AM.
#7
Yeah. I would of just bought the bearing it self and reuse the old hub. Rockauto usually have couple selection. Timken is a good/quality aftermarket brand. I've used timken bearing on my other car and it's still holding up till this day.
#8
The machine shop said the inner race was toast, and I needed a new hub as well. Funny I just got back from there, and when I showed him the China bearing he said, it was the same just different manufacturer and that the China bearing was the better bearing, I **** you NOT! HAHA! I told him to use the Japan one. He must've of planned on me coming back next year.
#9
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?ck[ID]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcurrency]=USD&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=7cuia91o8brl8dmiigdsg06mv2
#10
Weird. When did these randomly become available? I'm beyond surprised. This is pretty unheard of for front VE aftermarket hubs to have randomly become available lately.
Personally I bought OEM front hubs for my blue VE a couple years ago. Like you discovered they get trashed shortly after the wheel bearings go bad and they're unsalvageable. I'm running the new OEM hubs with Timken bearings.
Personally I bought OEM front hubs for my blue VE a couple years ago. Like you discovered they get trashed shortly after the wheel bearings go bad and they're unsalvageable. I'm running the new OEM hubs with Timken bearings.
#11
Weird. When did these randomly become available? I'm beyond surprised. This is pretty unheard of for front VE aftermarket hubs to have randomly become available lately.
Personally I bought OEM front hubs for my blue VE a couple years ago. Like you discovered they get trashed shortly after the wheel bearings go bad and they're unsalvageable. I'm running the new OEM hubs with Timken bearings.
Personally I bought OEM front hubs for my blue VE a couple years ago. Like you discovered they get trashed shortly after the wheel bearings go bad and they're unsalvageable. I'm running the new OEM hubs with Timken bearings.
I think there's only one supplier for out fronts, for our cars on Ebay, I posted it on the 1st thread. That must of cost a pretty penny James?
#12
The OEM hubs are $150 each. So including the bearings I spent probably $350-$400 total. But at the time there were no other options other than buying "good" used ones.
Have you tested and made sure the axle splines fit in correctly?
And have you pressed them into your spindles yet? If so, how was the fit of these hubs with respect to the inner race of your Fed-Mogul bearings? Nice and tight or is there some play?
Being able to get two of these hubs for the price of a single OEM one, this is definitely a good deal if the diameter/sizing is correct. I may buy a set of these to protect against future obsolescence.
#13
And londonflu, you should do both of the fronts together at once. If one front bearing/hub is bad the other can't be far behind. The listing is a little confusing because it says "set of 2" but looks like it's definitely only one hub/bearing.
In that case, and given I have never seen these anywhere else for sale in the aftermarket by any manufacturer, you really might consider buying another set now because it's liable to disappear from the market like the old "euro" glass headlights for our cars that I'm still kicking myself for never buying back then.
In that case, and given I have never seen these anywhere else for sale in the aftermarket by any manufacturer, you really might consider buying another set now because it's liable to disappear from the market like the old "euro" glass headlights for our cars that I'm still kicking myself for never buying back then.
#14
Yeah I saw your link to the eBay auction in the first thread, that's what I was referring to was my surprise to see such a thing. Almost unheard of for a manufacturer (even a Chinese one), to start producing an obscure VE-specific part. Kind of cool actually.
The OEM hubs are $150 each. So including the bearings I spent probably $350-$400 total. But at the time there were no other options other than buying "good" used ones.
Have you tested and made sure the axle splines fit in correctly?
And have you pressed them into your spindles yet? If so, how was the fit of these hubs with respect to the inner race of your Fed-Mogul bearings? Nice and tight or is there some play?
Being able to get two of these hubs for the price of a single OEM one, this is definitely a good deal if the diameter/sizing is correct. I may buy a set of these to protect against future obsolescence.
The OEM hubs are $150 each. So including the bearings I spent probably $350-$400 total. But at the time there were no other options other than buying "good" used ones.
Have you tested and made sure the axle splines fit in correctly?
And have you pressed them into your spindles yet? If so, how was the fit of these hubs with respect to the inner race of your Fed-Mogul bearings? Nice and tight or is there some play?
Being able to get two of these hubs for the price of a single OEM one, this is definitely a good deal if the diameter/sizing is correct. I may buy a set of these to protect against future obsolescence.
Yeah I think I'll do the other one this weekend, while it's still good ... just the bearing though. Maybe it had been done before I owned her, cuz she's pretty tight too, like a school girl crush, PMSL!
#15
Does anyone have pictures of their "toasted" hubs? The damage and wear to the inner race should be on outer edge of it, which makes contact with the ball bearings, not the inner edge that is mated to the hub. As far as the inner race and the hub are concerned, you're talking about a virtually solid piece of metal once it is pressed on. Even in my case, where it became separated due to the whacked out toe, it was perfectly fine once I pressed a new bearing on. That was two years ago. If there's any case where an inner race could have caused damage or wear to the hub, I would think that would be it.
#16
Does anyone have pictures of their "toasted" hubs? The damage and wear to the inner race should be on outer edge of it, which makes contact with the ball bearings, not the inner edge that is mated to the hub. As far as the inner race and the hub are concerned, you're talking about a virtually solid piece of metal once it is pressed on. Even in my case, where it became separated due to the whacked out toe, it was perfectly fine once I pressed a new bearing on. That was two years ago. If there's any case where an inner race could have caused damage or wear to the hub, I would think that would be it.
Picture the actual "shaft" of the hub that gets pressed into the inner race of the bearing. Over time and with a lot of wear and tear as your bearings start getting worn, the hub "shaft" itself starts to get loose with respect to the inner race. When these two parts loosen, it then starts to chew up/wear material off of the actual hub itself. When this happens, the diameter of the hub "shaft" actually lessens (obviously, as material is being removed).
So then you go to replace the bearings and press in this new (smaller) hub. What you end up with is a hub that is loose even when pressed together completely, because the fit is not tight due to, again, the shaft having material removed. And of course if you press these trashed hubs into new bearings you're no better off because, again, it's loose/wobbly/too much play/however you want to call it.
Very common. That's why replacement hubs are sold by parts manufacturers. Once material is worn off the hub it's not useable.
Last edited by James92SE; 09-12-2015 at 08:13 AM.
#18
Very well done James. Yes, I could have just got a bearing pressed in the worn hub, but how long would it last? Not 200k + miles like the OEM's I'm sure. I guess it all depends on how long one plans on keeping the car. In 2 yrs I've only put 7,000 miles on my VE, so yrs don't mean much to me. Bottom line is if your wheel hub wobbles when you rock your wheel on our cars, you better change the hub too. If not, plan on doing it again soon.
Last edited by londonflu; 09-12-2015 at 10:47 AM.
#19
Sorry James, but it's a perfectly logical point. A bad bearing is usually not due to failure or separation of the inner race. That means there should (at least usually) be no damage to a shaft or whatever cylindrical part it is pressed onto because they should remain stationary. If separation is usually the cause of a "bad" wheel bearing, then that's news to me. And in case, the bearing should be fine, and the hub would be the worn part. I've only done two wheel bearings, neither resulted in having to buy a replacement hub. Now if you remove the old bearing with a hammer instead of a press, that would be a different story.
As far as that picture goes. For a bearing to cause that much wear, I'm at a loss. Looks like a lathe was taken to it.
As far as that picture goes. For a bearing to cause that much wear, I'm at a loss. Looks like a lathe was taken to it.
#20
And londonflu, you should do both of the fronts together at once. If one front bearing/hub is bad the other can't be far behind. The listing is a little confusing because it says "set of 2" but looks like it's definitely only one hub/bearing.
In that case, and given I have never seen these anywhere else for sale in the aftermarket by any manufacturer, you really might consider buying another set now because it's liable to disappear from the market like the old "euro" glass headlights for our cars that I'm still kicking myself for never buying back then.
In that case, and given I have never seen these anywhere else for sale in the aftermarket by any manufacturer, you really might consider buying another set now because it's liable to disappear from the market like the old "euro" glass headlights for our cars that I'm still kicking myself for never buying back then.
Last edited by londonflu; 09-13-2015 at 06:51 AM.
#21
Sorry James, but it's a perfectly logical point. A bad bearing is usually not due to failure or separation of the inner race. That means there should (at least usually) be no damage to a shaft or whatever cylindrical part it is pressed onto because they should remain stationary. If separation is usually the cause of a "bad" wheel bearing, then that's news to me. And in case, the bearing should be fine, and the hub would be the worn part. I've only done two wheel bearings, neither resulted in having to buy a replacement hub. Now if you remove the old bearing with a hammer instead of a press, that would be a different story.
As far as that picture goes. For a bearing to cause that much wear, I'm at a loss. Looks like a lathe was taken to it.
As far as that picture goes. For a bearing to cause that much wear, I'm at a loss. Looks like a lathe was taken to it.
About 12-13 years ago when I had to replace the bearings on my first black VE 5 speed I took the whole assemblies to a shop to have them press it in. They were going to charge like 50 bucks or something. But then they called me and said no it would be several hundred dollars instead because the hubs were ruined and I needed new hubs. I was like "ha yeah right, nice job trying to BS more money out of me" and I actually went up there and got in an argument with them. I was arguing the point you are making.
Turned out much to my shock the hubs were actually trashed. Then I felt like a moron for arguing with them.
I'm telling you, if you drive on bad wheel bearings long enough it WILL trash the hub. I actually used to have pictures of some trashed hubs I've worked with, most recently the hubs on my friends mom's Accord. She drove on her bad bearings for so long that as soon as I loosened the axle nut, all the bearings just fell right out into my driveway and the race just fell right off of the hub with no pressure at all.
I know it makes no logical sense but I have seen it time and time again. Trust us, we aren't buying and replacing hubs just for the fun of it.
Of course, if you replace your bearings right away as soon as you detect play in the hub, this is all moot. But beyond that if you drive on it that way long enough, hub replacement frequently becomes necessary.
#22
yup James is 100% correct.
BUT that usually happens when your hubs are pretty much trashed.
the steel on the hubs are soft. the metal on the bearing races are harden. so once there's friction on the wheel bearings something's gotta give...and the bearing gets sticky and the hub just spins. a little at first..then more and more later on.
there's two ways to solve it...mill the hub smaller and press on a sleeve...who knows if ANYONE makes that.
what i ended up doing was threading the worn part on a lathe. what happens is the material gets pushed out a little and it's just enough to get tension on the in the bearing.
BUT that usually happens when your hubs are pretty much trashed.
the steel on the hubs are soft. the metal on the bearing races are harden. so once there's friction on the wheel bearings something's gotta give...and the bearing gets sticky and the hub just spins. a little at first..then more and more later on.
there's two ways to solve it...mill the hub smaller and press on a sleeve...who knows if ANYONE makes that.
what i ended up doing was threading the worn part on a lathe. what happens is the material gets pushed out a little and it's just enough to get tension on the in the bearing.
#23
Sorry James, but it's a perfectly logical point. A bad bearing is usually not due to failure or separation of the inner race. That means there should (at least usually) be no damage to a shaft or whatever cylindrical part it is pressed onto because they should remain stationary. If separation is usually the cause of a "bad" wheel bearing, then that's news to me. And in case, the bearing should be fine, and the hub would be the worn part. I've only done two wheel bearings, neither resulted in having to buy a replacement hub. Now if you remove the old bearing with a hammer instead of a press, that would be a different story.
As far as that picture goes. For a bearing to cause that much wear, I'm at a loss. Looks like a lathe was taken to it.
As far as that picture goes. For a bearing to cause that much wear, I'm at a loss. Looks like a lathe was taken to it.
#24
The only thing I could find about this said common problem, was the picture posted by James via Google images. But the section of the article where this picture is featured, discusses damage to the knuckle or hub caused by improper bearing installation, removal, or bending from impact. Not a worn bearing. A worn bearing will be noisy and cause the wheel to wobble, but the inner and outer races should be well seated as usual.
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
They were sold as Timken, but made in China so who knows? I only replaced one, so I still have the other somewhere, I can take a closer look to see if it's stamped.
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
#25
The only thing I could find about this said common problem, was the picture posted by James via Google images. But the section of the article where this picture is featured, discusses damage to the knuckle or hub caused by improper bearing installation, removal, or bending from impact. Not a worn bearing. A worn bearing will be noisy and cause the wheel to wobble, but the inner and outer races should be well seated as usual.
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
I don't remember how many miles were on my old Maxima when I did the job. Probably about 175k or so? The Accord I mentioned had nearly 300k miles on it IIRC. And again, it had been driving on the bad bearing for a looooooong time for the bearing to just totally fall apart in my driveway like that.
Here's how it happens, and this makes sense to me in my head but it's hard to articulate this via text only:
Let's say your bearing starts to crap out. You drive on it for months or years and thousands or tens of thousands or miles. Your wheel of course will develop "play" from the worn bearing - and then as you are driving down the road your wheel is not exactly spinning tightly on its "center axis" so to speak. Instead, the hub/wheel is almost "orbiting" the center line because of the movement/play allowed by the bad bearing (as in, the play forces the outside of the hub to always be pushed "up" because of the weight of the car, and then of course as you drive the whole thing rotates and due to the hub always being pushed "up" you get this orbiting motion I speak of).
So then if you can picture that motion, just imagine what it does to the hub - it's just being worn down.
The OUTSIDE inner race (race closest to the wheel side) is very likely to stay "stuck" on the hub - and in my experience this race is usually stuck on the hub even when the hub is damaged beyond re-using. It's normally the engine side of the hub beyond that gets so worn down it can't be re-used.
You should have seen the one on that Accord. It looked like somebody put it in a lathe and just gouged big spots out of it. If there weren't an axle nut on that axle, her wheel definitely would have just fallen right off. But even if they don't "look" very worn, they can still sometimes have just enough material removed that you press them in only to then frustratingly discover how loose they are even with new bearings.
And again, of course this is all moot if you discover/replace the bearings soon enough. But unfortunately not all bearing failures make noise so many times you don't even know they're on the way out unless you're in the habit of jacking the car up and checking the wheels/hubs for play.
Here are some more images I found online (as you can see, all of these examples appear that the section of the OUTSIDE inner race portion being largely undamaged):
#26
The only thing I could find about this said common problem, was the picture posted by James via Google images. But the section of the article where this picture is featured, discusses damage to the knuckle or hub caused by improper bearing installation, removal, or bending from impact. Not a worn bearing. A worn bearing will be noisy and cause the wheel to wobble, but the inner and outer races should be well seated as usual.
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
They were sold as Timken, but made in China so who knows? I only replaced one, so I still have the other somewhere, I can take a closer look to see if it's stamped.
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
They were sold as Timken, but made in China so who knows? I only replaced one, so I still have the other somewhere, I can take a closer look to see if it's stamped.
#27
I think you're putting too much emphasis on it. It's probably actually the result of a countermeasure to beef up the bearings by 1/32". I'd be more worried about that cheap hub you got. Let us know how long those last. Keep us posted londunflu
#28
I don't really know what else to tell you. I understand what you're saying and again I even argued with a shop over this exact same thing, with the exact same logic/argument you're making. But I assure you this is very common.
I don't remember how many miles were on my old Maxima when I did the job. Probably about 175k or so? The Accord I mentioned had nearly 300k miles on it IIRC. And again, it had been driving on the bad bearing for a looooooong time for the bearing to just totally fall apart in my driveway like that.
Here's how it happens, and this makes sense to me in my head but it's hard to articulate this via text only:
Let's say your bearing starts to crap out. You drive on it for months or years and thousands or tens of thousands or miles. Your wheel of course will develop "play" from the worn bearing - and then as you are driving down the road your wheel is not exactly spinning tightly on its "center axis" so to speak. Instead, the hub/wheel is almost "orbiting" the center line because of the movement/play allowed by the bad bearing (as in, the play forces the outside of the hub to always be pushed "up" because of the weight of the car, and then of course as you drive the whole thing rotates and due to the hub always being pushed "up" you get this orbiting motion I speak of).
So then if you can picture that motion, just imagine what it does to the hub - it's just being worn down.
The OUTSIDE inner race (race closest to the wheel side) is very likely to stay "stuck" on the hub - and in my experience this race is usually stuck on the hub even when the hub is damaged beyond re-using. It's normally the engine side of the hub beyond that gets so worn down it can't be re-used.
You should have seen the one on that Accord. It looked like somebody put it in a lathe and just gouged big spots out of it. If there weren't an axle nut on that axle, her wheel definitely would have just fallen right off. But even if they don't "look" very worn, they can still sometimes have just enough material removed that you press them in only to then frustratingly discover how loose they are even with new bearings.
And again, of course this is all moot if you discover/replace the bearings soon enough. But unfortunately not all bearing failures make noise so many times you don't even know they're on the way out unless you're in the habit of jacking the car up and checking the wheels/hubs for play.
I don't remember how many miles were on my old Maxima when I did the job. Probably about 175k or so? The Accord I mentioned had nearly 300k miles on it IIRC. And again, it had been driving on the bad bearing for a looooooong time for the bearing to just totally fall apart in my driveway like that.
Here's how it happens, and this makes sense to me in my head but it's hard to articulate this via text only:
Let's say your bearing starts to crap out. You drive on it for months or years and thousands or tens of thousands or miles. Your wheel of course will develop "play" from the worn bearing - and then as you are driving down the road your wheel is not exactly spinning tightly on its "center axis" so to speak. Instead, the hub/wheel is almost "orbiting" the center line because of the movement/play allowed by the bad bearing (as in, the play forces the outside of the hub to always be pushed "up" because of the weight of the car, and then of course as you drive the whole thing rotates and due to the hub always being pushed "up" you get this orbiting motion I speak of).
So then if you can picture that motion, just imagine what it does to the hub - it's just being worn down.
The OUTSIDE inner race (race closest to the wheel side) is very likely to stay "stuck" on the hub - and in my experience this race is usually stuck on the hub even when the hub is damaged beyond re-using. It's normally the engine side of the hub beyond that gets so worn down it can't be re-used.
You should have seen the one on that Accord. It looked like somebody put it in a lathe and just gouged big spots out of it. If there weren't an axle nut on that axle, her wheel definitely would have just fallen right off. But even if they don't "look" very worn, they can still sometimes have just enough material removed that you press them in only to then frustratingly discover how loose they are even with new bearings.
And again, of course this is all moot if you discover/replace the bearings soon enough. But unfortunately not all bearing failures make noise so many times you don't even know they're on the way out unless you're in the habit of jacking the car up and checking the wheels/hubs for play.
#29
More like Hectic thinking skills!
#30
#31
I didn't mean to imply that I was shocked at your critical thinking skills, just puzzled - given that you are by all accounts a very well-versed and capable car guy and long-time experienced member here - that you were seemingly unaware that it's common for hubs to need replacing when doing wheel bearings.
Though of course I suppose as with any car task, we don't typically research/learn about a specific aspect until the time comes that we have to personally mess with it. So if you have just plain never experienced worn/bad hubs yourself then of course it makes sense you wouldn't have really ever looked into it.
#32
No, I was actually laughing at you Hetic! It must require an awful lot of critical thinking trying to be right all the time.
#34
I've seen that before from spun bearings, and you'd have to be really really terrible at running a lathe to get remotely close to that much uneven galling.
#35
I'd argue if you have the means to machine the hub you have the means to machine a sleeve, but I'd put my time towards finding a bearing that would fit a machined hub vs making a sleeve, and realistically I'd probably just have the mailman bring me a new one instead
#36
The only thing I could find about this said common problem, was the picture posted by James via Google images. But the section of the article where this picture is featured, discusses damage to the knuckle or hub caused by improper bearing installation, removal, or bending from impact. Not a worn bearing. A worn bearing will be noisy and cause the wheel to wobble, but the inner and outer races should be well seated as usual.
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
They were sold as Timken, but made in China so who knows? I only replaced one, so I still have the other somewhere, I can take a closer look to see if it's stamped.
[IMG]http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/pearlmax/DSC00399_zpsb27afd6c.jpg[IMG]
I can however see it happening in my case, where driving with the toe completely out of whack, caused the inner race itself to pull apart due to lateral stress. But it was so obvious, and urgent that I repaired the problem, there wasn't nearly enough time to cause much wear. At least none that I noticed. I removed and replaced the bearings with a press, did a driveway alignment, and it has been fine for over two years. When aligned properly, virtually the only forces applied to the inner and outer races are going to be linear. And there is should not be nearly enough of it, to cause them to move independently of the knuckle or around the hub, unless the bearing was locked up somehow. But again, if you hammer the bearings on or off, use grease during installation, or otherwise do it wrong, then sure, there could be damage and resulting movement.
Not saying hub wear doesn't happen or can't happen, but I really don't see it being a "very common problem" James: you said you've had it happen twice. Two "trashed" hubs. How many miles did these cars have? How were the bearings removed? Had the inner race separated?
They were sold as Timken, but made in China so who knows? I only replaced one, so I still have the other somewhere, I can take a closer look to see if it's stamped.
[IMG]http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/pearlmax/DSC00399_zpsb27afd6c.jpg[IMG]
Timken has had a China factory for years now. I had a bit of a battle with myself building differentials for my trucks taking out Koyo Japan bearings and replacing them with Timken China but meh. I definitely would run the bearing on the left above over the one on the right.
As for stuff coming out of China, it seems just about everything is. A few days ago I found a "made in China" on my 3 year old $2800 Honda generator. The saving grace is now a lot of it they've really stepped up their game in terms of quality where you can now expect it to have somewhat of a life span vs being one time use junk.
#37
I didn't really refute anything. I asked for pictures of their "trashed hubs" and disagreed that it was a "very common problem". Is it that ridiculous to think that someone hasn't had experience with a certain problem anyway? I don't think it is. If that were the case, I would be running around here telling people how dumb they are for not knowing anything about their car's electrical system.
Luckily I know the reason for the hostility, but just don't care enough to care about it.
As for the hubs, you can tell they are cheap by the look of them. The build quality of the China bearing is up to par with the NSK, the 1/16" thinner outer race isn't a deal breaker, and like I said earlier, that 1/16th most likely went to beef up the bearings themselves. Aside from the wheel bearing, I have one aftermarket replacement part on my car, that being the power steering hose. If those two weren't emergencies, then I would have had had the time to find OEM parts for a good price. So I'm not the one to discuss aftermarket quality with. The wheel bearing has been great for 2 years, so no complaints. The power steering hose is a different story, I'm not sure of the brand, but it's too restrictive. Luckily have since found an OEM one that I will replace it with when I get the chance.
As far as electronics go, China rules.
Edit: Actually I take that back. I do have aftermarket struts, springs, oil and air filters, and a Pilkington windshield. None of it made in China however. Every other replacement part I have installed is OEM.
Luckily I know the reason for the hostility, but just don't care enough to care about it.
As for the hubs, you can tell they are cheap by the look of them. The build quality of the China bearing is up to par with the NSK, the 1/16" thinner outer race isn't a deal breaker, and like I said earlier, that 1/16th most likely went to beef up the bearings themselves. Aside from the wheel bearing, I have one aftermarket replacement part on my car, that being the power steering hose. If those two weren't emergencies, then I would have had had the time to find OEM parts for a good price. So I'm not the one to discuss aftermarket quality with. The wheel bearing has been great for 2 years, so no complaints. The power steering hose is a different story, I'm not sure of the brand, but it's too restrictive. Luckily have since found an OEM one that I will replace it with when I get the chance.
As far as electronics go, China rules.
Edit: Actually I take that back. I do have aftermarket struts, springs, oil and air filters, and a Pilkington windshield. None of it made in China however. Every other replacement part I have installed is OEM.
Last edited by Hectic; 09-22-2015 at 06:51 AM.
#39
NSK makes a tooooooon of their bearings in China nowadays.
EVERYTHING is made in China. It's almost futile to try to avoid it. Having said that, "made in China" stuff these days is generally totally fine assuming it's a name brand company who just manufactures in China (as most do).
Personally, I would avoid "made in India" infinitely more than "made in China".
EVERYTHING is made in China. It's almost futile to try to avoid it. Having said that, "made in China" stuff these days is generally totally fine assuming it's a name brand company who just manufactures in China (as most do).
Personally, I would avoid "made in India" infinitely more than "made in China".
#40
NSK makes a tooooooon of their bearings in China nowadays.
EVERYTHING is made in China. It's almost futile to try to avoid it. Having said that, "made in China" stuff these days is generally totally fine assuming it's a name brand company who just manufactures in China (as most do).
Personally, I would avoid "made in India" infinitely more than "made in China".
EVERYTHING is made in China. It's almost futile to try to avoid it. Having said that, "made in China" stuff these days is generally totally fine assuming it's a name brand company who just manufactures in China (as most do).
Personally, I would avoid "made in India" infinitely more than "made in China".