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1. Noticed my headlights and dash lights started dimming and flickering.
2. Car randomly wouldn't start. Would click once, but nothing more. Wiggled the pos and neg wires of the battery and it started.
3. Thought it was battery so bought a new one.
4. Flickering and dimming come back again.
5. Radio/aux/cd(aftermarket) starts flicking on and off, and randomly going quiet at moments.
6. Made a semi-sharp turn and simultaneously one of the windows ghost rolled down, and the blinker i had on started going double-time. Also noticed headlights and fog lights no longer come on, but can turn on dash lights.
7. **CONCLUSION** Was driving trying to make it home after 6 happens and start to hear a crazy clicking sound under the passenger seat near the front pass door. Not even 10 seconds later, i lose all power, pull over, and see THIS (Attached picture)
Although my battery is missing one of its' straps, i don't think the battery moved, and broke that terminal off. I didn't hear anything, but i think it exploded. You can see the white plastic on top of the battery is melted.
Car is currently on the side of the road with the key stuck in it, and i plan on going tomorrow morning and trying to install a new battery terminal end. I am not that car inclined and could use ANY advice (no matter how small).
The symtoms your describing would normally point to a bad altenator but it was obviously due to bad/loose contact on that terminal. If you were having the same symtoms before putting in a new battery theres probably a good chance it may not be the battery. Im not sure why it would have "exploded" i could be wrong but by the looks of the pic. It looks like that connector was pretty corroded. Is it possible it cracked or broke arcing out on the positive terminal? There also appears to be some melting on the fusible link just before the broken connector. That fusible link may be something you'd want to look into replacing/repairing if it's damaged before putting in another battery. If the fusible link is damaged you may have to see if you could find one from a local yard. Fingers crossed it didn't damage your ecu. Hopefully someone else who may have experienced this or has a little more insight will chime in.
is there flame damage or anything? is there charring under the hood?
a total guess...you put in a new battery and while it's charging up hydrogen gasses are released. your terminal is not that great and it arcs and ignites the gas.
Thanks for the quick responses guys. Ac max i think it definitely is possible that it arched out on everything directly around it. That red fusible link and red cord is to the speakers in the back, but i'm definitely unhooking them for the time being. It does look like it may have melted into the pos terminal end, but that end is most likely the original one so no telling how bad it has looked like that for.
(quick comment. I am guilty of not drilling into the frame for wiring the speakers. The power wire for the subs in the trunk was stuffed going over the hood (to where you couldn't SEE it unless you opened the door or popped the hood up, but i am not putting it back.)
And yes DanNY. Although "exploded" could be exaggeration on my part, i checked and noticed charring perfectly above where the pos terminal was on the padding on the hood.
(That big yellow spot)
Here's the steps i did this morning to at least get it home (forgive my recklessness but it is home thank goodness.)
1. Pulled the battery out and got off the broken terminal. The red plastic connector is definitely melted to crap.
2. Bought a new one from the walmart across the street for 4$ and (reluctantly) put it on.
3. Drove to the orielys and swapped out the battery with a new one.
Still having the problem of; no headlights, seatbelts won't open or retract, other blinker is doubletiming now, and the key is still stuck in the ignition. I'm going to google it, but what are symptoms of a damaged ecu?
Last edited by Ray229Harris; 11-04-2016 at 11:38 AM.
Don't believe these cars were as advance back then where the lights are controlled by the Ecu. Get yourself a multimeter and check if the system is over charging. Also, check all your grounds.
Checked all fuses, and checked the relays as well as i could with just a multimeter on hand.
I hooked up the battery to the car and put the red and black multimeter wired between the red and black battery ports and i got something like 12.7 volts, but when i started the car it dropped down to 12.4. That's definitely not good right? I didn't leave it on for long, maybe 30 seconds, should i do it longer?
I thought overcharging sounded correct because i did notice that the dash lights (the ONE set of lights that stayed working) randomly would get REALLY bright out of nowhere. Could that just have been because there was extra power going to the lights with the headlights and fog lights not working?
I'd physically check the fuses and relays but it really doesn't help that the fusible link at your positive cable is looks pretty cooked. When you mentioned "red plastic connector" that's what im refering to as the fusible link not the power fuse for your subs. That fusible link could be a possible culprit to things going wonky or altenator aswell. You should have 14-14.5v when the atenators working to maintain the battery. You could take the altenator in to your local shop for testing and i'd probably find another fusible link at a scrapyard. 4th gens also have the same fusible link "red plastic connector".
I'd physically check the fuses and relays but it really doesn't help that the fusible link at your positive cable is looks pretty cooked. When you mentioned "red plastic connector" that's what im refering to as the fusible link not the power fuse for your subs....
Ahhhhhh. haha sorry ac max. Thanks for using my own made up terminology lol. I was looking up "fusible link" and got a bunch of mixed and different images of different things. I understand what part you're talking about now!
I got it off after some time, and hope changing that will help somewhat. I was going to change the WHOLE positive terminal wire, until i found out that it was connected to the fuse box that was connected to something else.
I'll try replacing just this first.
But with these wires, can anyone explain what this stuff is, and what i should buy or how to clean it? I know that is a problem, and i should do SOMETHING before i put a new one on. (sorry the pic is so close. I even grossed myself out looking at it.
(side note; checked the fuses/relays and noticed the power window one was burnt through. That explains that..)
Do you not have a battery tie down? I don't see any evidence of a battery tie down in any of your pictures. Why do you not have one? The fact that your battery is surely moving around as you drive certainly doesn't help any arcing or shorting issues you may be prone to. The lack of a battery tie down could actually be your primary issue in fact.
white stuff looks like either some contact grease or some white lithium grease that the dealer or whoever spray/squirted in there to keep the terminals from rusting.
+1 on what james said. that battery was probably bouncing around for a bit (assuming no tie down) and it banged on the hood too many times and broke the terminal off.
I'm guilty of not having a tie down. Embarrassed to say i didn't know battery tiedowns were a thing until i bought that new one. I've heard i can use bungee cord? assuming it's short and i can get it tight enough?
I never thought the bateery moved any. I figured it was so heavy that it was stationary. I could definitely see how a sharp turn could shift it around a little though.
I have always had that weird greasy stuff inside my positive-side battery connectors on all of my 3rd gens (5 now). I've always assumed it's factory applied to prevent corrosion/acid buildup. It's nothing to worry about it at all and it's definitely not your issue.
Like Dan said, your terminal actually probably hit your hood and that's what broke it and caused the arc/short. I'm betting the battery actually got slightly airborne from a bump and hit the hood that way.
Batteries surprisingly move around A LOT, even being so heavy. Especially in battery trays like ours in which it just merely sits there (vs hooking under a ledge with the little triangle lower edge like a lot newer cars). It's possible to get a large enough group size battery such that it sits fairly snug in the tray, but even then I would never go around with no tie down.
I have seen all sorts of crazy shenanigans from no battery tie down over the years. My buddy once totally rebuilt his engine in his truck, and put an entirely new AC system in it. He started driving it with no battery tie down, and the battery fell down sideways for a bit and rubbed a hole through an AC hardline, and also took out a radiator hose somehow and he lost all his coolant and overheated/ruined the engine/heads. All that work and money on a brand new AC system and rebuilt engine ruined due to being lazy with no battery tie down lol.
I would venture to bet that once you get your battery secured and new battery terminal ends, fuses replaced, that you should be good to go.
So I'm one step forward, but you guys know the rest.
After installing the new positive fusible link and terminal car started up fine but i immediately started hearing a clicking behind the left side of the steering wheel in the dash. I don't recognize the sound but I'd compare it to the sound of one relay clicking on and off.
The seatbelts move, but not in their full cycle, only up and down maybe half an inch.
The headlights still don't come on but after visually inspecting them, they look like they might have blown to. (Incident tally. Now both front turn signals and headlights were found blown).
Lastly, the windows don't move at all,but i could have sworn i heard them inch when i started the car up.
Like i said, i checked the fuses and tested the relays with a multimeter, but I'm thinking of investing in a power light(or whatever it's called) ((if its not as expensive as just buying all the relays over)) cause I'm not too confident in the multimeters test. When using the multimeter on the relays the number would just around, but never stay on one clear number. All the fuses were A-okay though.
DanNY is right on the gunk in the fusible link. It is contact grease you'll see it on all of them and yes you should definately have a battery tie down and can get them cheap from any auto parts stores or probably even a walmart but i think you get that now but in the meantime obviously you need help with your biggest issues at hand. What your refering to as a "power light" i think you mean a test light. The clicking sound under the dash sounds like it could also be one of the modules. Could be your pw module and or seatbelt module that was affected by your battery "explosion" if you have a 3rd gen at your local scrapyard maybe you could grab those modules which im sure you could get them dirt cheap. Also have you had your altenator tested? Hopefully someone with more electrical experience can chime in and hopefully you can get the issue resolved. Ive noticed Dennismik seems to be pretty good with electrical issues and has been pretty helpfull in the past maybe he could chime in with some helpfull advise too.
i dont have a battery tie down never caused issues like that, however in my case specifically there is no way for a battery terminal to touch unprotected metal on the hood of the car. But im having a hard time believing it blew up, more so it bounced up and hit the hood then broke off. This would be on of the strangest stories i heard if the actual terminal blew up.
I guess alternator testing is next, cause the car won't start now. Hooked up the battery and put the multimeter on it and bouced around from 12.6-13.6 tuntil i tried to start it up and it dropped to 11.
I guess alternator testing is next, cause the car won't start now. Hooked up the battery and put the multimeter on it and bouced around from 12.6-13.6 tuntil i tried to start it up and it dropped to 11.
I have a spare working alt. only about 3 months old but after the cost of shipping from Canada i don't know if it would be feesible. I'd get yours tested but it's looking like your alt. might be no good. If the voltage is bouncing around the regulator is probably shot and depending on how old the alt. is the brushes are probably worn. I'd take it to a shop that specializes in alts. and starters and if it's no good see what they'd charge to rebuild it vs. new but these days most alts you buy at parts stores are all rebuilt anyway especially with older cars.
What's making me the most mad is when i had the car tested; they checked three things. The alternator, the starter, and the battery; and said it was the battery.
The alrternator is hard to get to isn't it? I'm going to try to hook up the multimeter and test that first if i can.
Also will check all my grounds like i was told to earlier.
What's making me the most mad is when i had the car tested; they checked three things. The alternator, the starter, and the battery; and said it was the battery.
The alrternator is hard to get to isn't it? I'm going to try to hook up the multimeter and test that first if i can.
Also will check all my grounds like i was told to earlier.
Provided you have the gxe (vg) which from what i see in the pics. in your 1st post you do the alt. is actually not a tough one to get out on these cars. Jack it up and you'll find you have pretty easy access to it from underneith on the passenger side. I'd take the alt. out and take it with you to a shop that does alts. and starters and have them test it. Atleast if it's no good they can rebuild it there or swap it for a new one being you'd already have the core there so you wouldn't have to worry about a core charge or having to go back to get your old one out to bring back. I believe you should have 14-14.5v from the battery if the alt. is good. Another thing to do is put the battery on a trickle charger and give it a good charge and if the car starts up with the battery charged i'd lean toward the alt. It may be that when you put the new battery in to get it home it was just running off the battery and gave you enough juice to just get the car home. Checking your grounds and connections is a good idea too.
Had an epiphany last night in bed; and it may or may not be a coincidence, but got up this morning and tried something first.
I switched the two cords that connected to the red fusible link for the positive battery terminal and the car started up.
I did check out two grounds (the negative one thats kind of near the middle of the engine under the air filter, and the positive that you have to go under the car and pull back a rubber boot cover. Grabbed some sandpaper and gave the negative one a couple rubs.)
Hooked up the multimeter once again and battery was at a steady 13.1 while car was off, and jumping between 12.3 anD 12.5, but going as low as 11.9 when car was idling.
I didnt have radio hooked up, and still haven't bought new headlights, so i didn't really have any load on it to push it.
Well atleast it's a start. Good to hear you got it running. Now you can work out the other little kinks and get the alt. checked out and get yourself a battery tie down.
Thanks again guys. Went under the car and pulled the alternator out today. The three wires coneccted to it didn't look bad
I'd like you guise opinion.
I took it out strickly because i assumed it'd be cheaper to take JUST the alternator to a shop, instead of them charging me double the time to take it off and put it back on. (not sure if that's even how it works)
but do you guys think i should
-Take the alternator to a shop and get it tested and repaired(?)
-Buy a new/refurbished one
-Go to my local junkyard for their veterans day special and get one for 50% off (total becoming 12.50+tax)
or-Use the power of the internet, this forum, and youtube (shout out chris fix and eric the car guy) to try to fix the alternator myslef?
I wouldn't be trying to rebuild it yourself based on youtube videos . Any of the other options aren't bad. Just depends on your budget. Personally i'd take it out and take it to a shop that only rebuilds alts. and starters and either rebuild it or just swap it for a new one and take it back and put it back in the car. Its very simple. remove. rebuild. reinstall! or go new if you can. JY isn't a bad idea maybe as a spare but your not always sure what your getting then you could be back to square one.
Alright fam. Good news bad bews. Had the alternator tested 3 times and all places said it was dead. Bought a refurbished one for 70$ with a lifetime warranty and car started up great, seatbelts and windows working now, and tested the voltage and it is MUCH higher now.
Another problem has popped up now though..
Test drove the car and before i could make it out my housing complex, i lost all power and the car cut off. Like no power steering, all lights off, no power at all.
I thought it might have been the negative terminal end because it seemed loose, so i bought a new one and unscrewed the old one off the end of the negatives wire, but that didn't fix the problem.
I did notice the "battery light" turn on on the dash while i was neutrally rolling, trying to turn the steering wheel out of the line of traffic.
I checked my two grounds already, I'm bot sure what to next. It seems to only happen when the car is moving, not when it is just sitting in my driveway. It also doesn't seem to do it when i turn, because i was driving in a straight line the second cut off
yes. it starts right back up like nothing happened; and yes, replaced that melted up fusible link. Could it be from my belt not being retightened enough?
Last edited by Ray229Harris; 11-16-2016 at 11:31 AM.
I don't really think that your belt is the issue. Random stalling issues can pretty tough to trouble shoot. Obviously you didn't have a stalling issue before the positive battery terminal connection broke. If you have good spark and fuel pressure than it may be a sensor. Possibly the ignitor module/sensor behind the distributor or the coil or maf. Could be a number of things. Do you have a spare maf sensor to try?
I do not have a spare maf sensor but i did recently buy some cleaner and cleaned the maf when it was acting up a year back.
Interesting though, i DID have to take off the maf and the air filter to get to one of the grounds. I'll double check that connection to make sure it's on tight.
Noticed another symptom today and this could be related, not related, serious or not.
Sat in the driveway and let it run for about 4 minutes and everything seemed okay. Gave it some rpms, about 1500 for 30 seconds and started to see smoke coming from near the firewall on the passager side. It had a smell, but couldn't put my finger on it what the smell was.
Went to the back of the car and normally what is frequent white smoke, there's a puddle of water coming at a slow drip after drip out of the exhaust pipe.
It's was definitely clear, and had no smell. It's a hot day, maybe 80s right now, but was around 50s early this morning. Could have just been from the weather?
Not sure about the smoke in the front. Possibly an oil leak or oil getting on the manifold burning off? You'd want to look into that a little further but as for the moisture or a few drops of water out the tailpipe is normal and shouldn't be anything to worry about. That is ofcoarse if it's a little water and not fuel from a sticking injector dumping fuel into the cylinder.
Normal amount? Collected about 2 and a half ounces in ten minutes (which looks like a lot in a shot glass) Also, drove around for a good 30 minutes and car didn't cut off, so this thread might be wrapped up. Felt a little change in shifting, but maybe the 2 weeks my car has been down made me forget.
Last edited by Ray229Harris; 11-18-2016 at 12:28 PM.
Sounds like its got a misfire. When is the last time you done a tune up ie. Plugs, wires, cap and rotor on the distributor and fuel and air filter? Also try checking the resistance on your injectors to see if they're between 10-14 ohm. I wouldn't be too concerned with the moisture out of the tail pipe as long as its not fuel. Less than a shot glass in 10 minutes isn't bad. The fact it didn't stall on you again is good. Did you check the maf to make sure the harness was plugged in properly?
Well i was wrong again. Car was fine for at least a 20 minute drive until i had to stop short at a 4 way intersection because a guy was turning, and the car shut off on me. Car would crank, but not start.
Checked the mass air flow connection, checked the positive thing. Made sure i wasn't out of gas.
Eventually; about an hour later; two skates to a gas station (just to be sure)[also, some guy said it could be my fuel pump or somethin], and me bargaining with the gods, the last thing i tried was messing with the negative wire and car started up. Bought a new negative wire today and will put it on tomorrow and report back.
Last edited by Ray229Harris; 11-19-2016 at 02:19 PM.
11-03-2016, 08:12 PM
. Any of the other options aren't bad. Just depends on your budget. Personally i'd take it out and take it to a shop that only rebuilds alts. and starters and either rebuild it or just swap it for a new one and take it back and put it back in the car. Its very simple. remove. rebuild. reinstall! or go new if you can. JY isn't a bad idea maybe as a spare but your not always sure what your getting then you could be back to square one.