Why VTC's go bad!!
04-27-2002, 05:38 PM
#1
Why VTC's go bad!!
Well where to start....
First of all our VTC's are hydraulic, they are activated by oil press. So one reason for failure would be there is not enough oil press going to them. I know a lot of you have removed your solenoids for whatever reason, but how many of you thought about the lower o-ring seal. Well I looked at mine and thought it should be fine right? well not really, when looking at the solenoid the lower o-ring is a static seal (there are no moving parts across it), but it came across to me one day that the lower o-ring can and does wear down. I realized that the solenoid is brass of some kind, and the manifold it sites in is aluminum of some kind, and that they both expand and contract at different rates. Well measureing the o-ring at first was not too straight forward b/c I did not realize that it was worn, but the OD was affected quite alot. This being due to the expansion and contraction of the two surfaces. Anyway the o-ring measures 10mm ID, 14mm OD, with a thickness of 2mm. The standard o-rings used in automobiles are usually neoprene b/c it will withstand the oil's and has a reasonable heat range(and is very cheap). But it is by far not the best that can be bought, and I found the best is called KALREZ, it will withstand a much greater range of solvents, oils, abrasion(!!), and has a much much more impressive heat range over the neoprene. The neoprene ony goes up to like 220F, but we all know with heat soak and hot summer days that temps under the hood will get easily over 300F. While the KALREZ goes up to something like 450F (I'll get exact numbers is anyone is interested).
Then another reason being the electrical connection to the solenoids themselve. Just about every connector on our car will either get a fine film of oxidation or female recepticales will go lame so that they don't make good electrical contact. This is actually something I had to do just recentley (as I have in the past). The VTC's were acting up, so I'm like WTF. I went ahead and cleaned the connectors on the solenoids (both sides) and she purred (somewhat hehe) once again!. I used some emmery cloth and a screwdriver to do the solenoid tabs and used a special small file for the connector side. Also applied a small amount of dielectric grease on them prior to installing, and pinched down the connector side so that they would grab the tabs more aggresively.
If this maintance is done on your VTC's this will (I hope) either fix the problem (unless it's done real damage to the sprokets) or eleviate the symptoms.
Can anyone out there tell me what the rebuild kit comes with. I know it has a better return spring in the package, but what else? I dont think vtc has to do directly with spring failure. That comes after the fact, b/c as the sprokets are engaging and disengaging (hence: tick tick) the spring is being worked and springs(spring steel) eventually goes lame when being heated and worked hard.
So if any of you wants one of these o-ring (kalrez) I have a few more that I can mail out. I'll send to six people on the org, a pair of o-ring replacements, e-mail me. I like to also mention that these o-rings are somehting like 25 times more expensive over the neoprene, just to give you an idea, sure they look identical but they are very different. Who ever would like to order them, I got mine from MSC (manhatten supply company) or something they deal with industrial supplies. I'll give a phone number or more info, they also might be on the web, I dont know.
Just another thing, In the TSB they mention that the oil gallies should be cleaned when doing the rebuild. I've mentioned before that people with the vtc tick should run an oil flush, and some have said that this has caused the problem to get worse. Aha this would then lead me to believe that it is the o-ring leaking press. and when running the flush it has removed any gunk or crud that helped form a seal around the o-ring. So I wanted to suggest to still run a motor flush (I reccomend STP motor flush), but only before replacing the o-ring with new ones. The varnish that formes in the oil gallies is what helps wear down the o-ring. And this can be accelerated by having dirty oil, the ultra fine particles in the oil will act like an abrasive. So doing normal oil changes and using a good-high quality oil filter is a must.
DAMN can anyone count how many times I had to write 'o-ring'
Now don't attack me people, I know this is just the begining
.
eidt:
Whoops, the o-rings are caled VITON NOT KALREZ.
First of all our VTC's are hydraulic, they are activated by oil press. So one reason for failure would be there is not enough oil press going to them. I know a lot of you have removed your solenoids for whatever reason, but how many of you thought about the lower o-ring seal. Well I looked at mine and thought it should be fine right? well not really, when looking at the solenoid the lower o-ring is a static seal (there are no moving parts across it), but it came across to me one day that the lower o-ring can and does wear down. I realized that the solenoid is brass of some kind, and the manifold it sites in is aluminum of some kind, and that they both expand and contract at different rates. Well measureing the o-ring at first was not too straight forward b/c I did not realize that it was worn, but the OD was affected quite alot. This being due to the expansion and contraction of the two surfaces. Anyway the o-ring measures 10mm ID, 14mm OD, with a thickness of 2mm. The standard o-rings used in automobiles are usually neoprene b/c it will withstand the oil's and has a reasonable heat range(and is very cheap). But it is by far not the best that can be bought, and I found the best is called KALREZ, it will withstand a much greater range of solvents, oils, abrasion(!!), and has a much much more impressive heat range over the neoprene. The neoprene ony goes up to like 220F, but we all know with heat soak and hot summer days that temps under the hood will get easily over 300F. While the KALREZ goes up to something like 450F (I'll get exact numbers is anyone is interested).
Then another reason being the electrical connection to the solenoids themselve. Just about every connector on our car will either get a fine film of oxidation or female recepticales will go lame so that they don't make good electrical contact. This is actually something I had to do just recentley (as I have in the past). The VTC's were acting up, so I'm like WTF. I went ahead and cleaned the connectors on the solenoids (both sides) and she purred (somewhat hehe) once again!. I used some emmery cloth and a screwdriver to do the solenoid tabs and used a special small file for the connector side. Also applied a small amount of dielectric grease on them prior to installing, and pinched down the connector side so that they would grab the tabs more aggresively.
If this maintance is done on your VTC's this will (I hope) either fix the problem (unless it's done real damage to the sprokets) or eleviate the symptoms.
Can anyone out there tell me what the rebuild kit comes with. I know it has a better return spring in the package, but what else? I dont think vtc has to do directly with spring failure. That comes after the fact, b/c as the sprokets are engaging and disengaging (hence: tick tick) the spring is being worked and springs(spring steel) eventually goes lame when being heated and worked hard.
So if any of you wants one of these o-ring (kalrez) I have a few more that I can mail out. I'll send to six people on the org, a pair of o-ring replacements, e-mail me. I like to also mention that these o-rings are somehting like 25 times more expensive over the neoprene, just to give you an idea, sure they look identical but they are very different. Who ever would like to order them, I got mine from MSC (manhatten supply company) or something they deal with industrial supplies. I'll give a phone number or more info, they also might be on the web, I dont know.
Just another thing, In the TSB they mention that the oil gallies should be cleaned when doing the rebuild. I've mentioned before that people with the vtc tick should run an oil flush, and some have said that this has caused the problem to get worse. Aha this would then lead me to believe that it is the o-ring leaking press. and when running the flush it has removed any gunk or crud that helped form a seal around the o-ring. So I wanted to suggest to still run a motor flush (I reccomend STP motor flush), but only before replacing the o-ring with new ones. The varnish that formes in the oil gallies is what helps wear down the o-ring. And this can be accelerated by having dirty oil, the ultra fine particles in the oil will act like an abrasive. So doing normal oil changes and using a good-high quality oil filter is a must.
DAMN can anyone count how many times I had to write 'o-ring'
Now don't attack me people, I know this is just the begining
.eidt:
Whoops, the o-rings are caled VITON NOT KALREZ.
04-28-2002, 07:43 AM
#4
I guess I did not make it clear, but I am sending out the o-ring FOR FREE. I had to buy a bulk package, so I have a bunch extra that I'll send out for FREE. But also don't forget to clean the connections on the solenoids when doing this.
04-28-2002, 08:01 AM
#5
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 562
Re: Why VTC's go bad!!
Originally posted by eric93SE
Well where to start....
Well where to start....
04-28-2002, 09:35 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
Originally posted by eric93SE
I guess I did not make it clear, but I am sending out the o-ring FOR FREE. I had to buy a bulk package, so I have a bunch extra that I'll send out for FREE. But also don't forget to clean the connections on the solenoids when doing this.
I guess I did not make it clear, but I am sending out the o-ring FOR FREE. I had to buy a bulk package, so I have a bunch extra that I'll send out for FREE. But also don't forget to clean the connections on the solenoids when doing this.
04-28-2002, 11:14 AM
#7
The reason the VTCs fail is that the oil gallies (tubes in the engine) running to the VTCs get plugged with sludge over time and starves the VTC parts of oil this in turn causes the spring to overheat and wear out as you have described. That's why it's mentioned in the TSBs to clean the oil gallies and replace the jets when you do the work.
As for what's in the kit, there's an o-ring, the VTC cover, and the spring listed in the TSB as "discard this part" when doing the rebuild.
I've ordered the whole kit, and it should be here tomorrow.
other parts you'll have to order are the head, valve cover, & manifold gaskets, and anything else you want to replace.
the VTC rebuild kits are around $30 each from courtesy, but the rest of the gaskets required to do the job are about $200.
And while you've got all that mess off, I recommend buying new valve stem seals and replacing them while you've got the heads torn apart. this should alleviate any smoke you have at startup, and only adds a small amount of time to the job.
A top-end rebuild kit from Courtesy includes all the necessary gaskets and the valve stem seals for less money than it would cost to buy all the gaskets separate (all needed ones are listed in the VTC replacement TSB.)... so for the price of the gaskets to rebuild the VTCs, you can get new valve stem seals also. it's within $10 or something anyway. definitely worth it, as a set of stem seals will cost around $40 if I remember correctly.
If you want to go through all that, call up courtesy and talk to Kaleb. he can pull up my last order and get all the parts you'll need straight off that invoice. (it'll make things much faster if you mention that so he doesn't have to look up all the part #s again).
As for what's in the kit, there's an o-ring, the VTC cover, and the spring listed in the TSB as "discard this part" when doing the rebuild.
I've ordered the whole kit, and it should be here tomorrow.
other parts you'll have to order are the head, valve cover, & manifold gaskets, and anything else you want to replace.
the VTC rebuild kits are around $30 each from courtesy, but the rest of the gaskets required to do the job are about $200.
And while you've got all that mess off, I recommend buying new valve stem seals and replacing them while you've got the heads torn apart. this should alleviate any smoke you have at startup, and only adds a small amount of time to the job.
A top-end rebuild kit from Courtesy includes all the necessary gaskets and the valve stem seals for less money than it would cost to buy all the gaskets separate (all needed ones are listed in the VTC replacement TSB.)... so for the price of the gaskets to rebuild the VTCs, you can get new valve stem seals also. it's within $10 or something anyway. definitely worth it, as a set of stem seals will cost around $40 if I remember correctly.
If you want to go through all that, call up courtesy and talk to Kaleb. he can pull up my last order and get all the parts you'll need straight off that invoice. (it'll make things much faster if you mention that so he doesn't have to look up all the part #s again).
04-28-2002, 11:17 AM
#8
Eric.. your PM box is full. I'd like a set of the o-rings too. email me please for the info.. blehm@utulsa.edu
thanks.
thanks.
04-28-2002, 12:08 PM
#9
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 562
Originally posted by Matt93SE
Eric.. your PM box is full.
thanks.
Eric.. your PM box is full.
thanks.
04-28-2002, 12:47 PM
#10
Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 77
Help me too...
Ive been noticing that tickin sound also and if i could get a pair of those O-rings it would be very much appreciated.......write to me at fubu0420@aol.com
04-28-2002, 01:09 PM
#12
Re: Help me too...
Originally posted by SupaMax
Ive been noticing that tickin sound also and if i could get a pair of those O-rings it would be very much appreciated.......write to me at fubu0420@aol.com
Ive been noticing that tickin sound also and if i could get a pair of those O-rings it would be very much appreciated.......write to me at fubu0420@aol.com
these MIGHT help to keep the problem from coming back, but won't fix it once it's there.
04-28-2002, 02:39 PM
#13
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matt93SE
[B]The reason the VTCs fail is that the oil gallies (tubes in the engine) running to the VTCs get plugged with sludge over time and starves the VTC parts of oil this in turn causes the spring to overheat and wear out as you have described. That's why it's mentioned in the TSBs to clean the oil gallies and replace the jets when you do the work.
[QUOTE]
I see what you are saying Matt, but there are people on the org who have done the full rebuild and have noted that there gallies were not plugged, and that only maybe a varnish was present. I have in the past had the VTC tick and I know that the gallies on my max are in no way plugged. I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and maybe a bit of nissan fault not describing what causes the problem.
I see that my email is not listed in the profile so here it is ebaumber@msn.com and I'll send to the first seven people a set for free, just send me a mail address.
[B]The reason the VTCs fail is that the oil gallies (tubes in the engine) running to the VTCs get plugged with sludge over time and starves the VTC parts of oil this in turn causes the spring to overheat and wear out as you have described. That's why it's mentioned in the TSBs to clean the oil gallies and replace the jets when you do the work.
[QUOTE]
I see what you are saying Matt, but there are people on the org who have done the full rebuild and have noted that there gallies were not plugged, and that only maybe a varnish was present. I have in the past had the VTC tick and I know that the gallies on my max are in no way plugged. I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and maybe a bit of nissan fault not describing what causes the problem.
I see that my email is not listed in the profile so here it is ebaumber@msn.com and I'll send to the first seven people a set for free, just send me a mail address.
04-28-2002, 02:52 PM
#14
I would really like someone who has grounded there VTC's to try this and then unground them. providing they run a motor flush, do a good job of cleaning the connections on the solenoid and connector, replace the o-ring, use a good oil filter not an el cheapo fram or purolator.
http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/filters.htm
http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/filters.htm
04-28-2002, 03:22 PM
#15
now here's a funny story...
My vtc had been ticking for months. to the point I was afraid my engine was going to die.
by mistake, I overfilled the engine with oil when changing it last time. had 6 quarts in it.
drove it like that for a couple weeks.. once day it suddenly started smoking like a b!tch.. thought I'd blown the engine.
I pulled half the thing apart, then thought about checking the oil level, since the engine was still running the same- just spewing smoke.
so I check it and it's waaay high.
dump the oil out and pour enough back in to the full mark on the dipstick.
my VTCs have not made a single tick since then, and I've got $300 in parts on the way to rebuild them.
explain THAT one!! (I can't.)
My vtc had been ticking for months. to the point I was afraid my engine was going to die.
by mistake, I overfilled the engine with oil when changing it last time. had 6 quarts in it.
drove it like that for a couple weeks.. once day it suddenly started smoking like a b!tch.. thought I'd blown the engine.
I pulled half the thing apart, then thought about checking the oil level, since the engine was still running the same- just spewing smoke.
so I check it and it's waaay high.
dump the oil out and pour enough back in to the full mark on the dipstick.
my VTCs have not made a single tick since then, and I've got $300 in parts on the way to rebuild them.
explain THAT one!! (I can't.)
04-28-2002, 05:58 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
explain this: i ground my VTC, clicking doesnt go away. i unground them..still clicking. i put my ear down to my engine (while running..probably not the smartest thing), its the injectors. i'm getting NO VTC click whatsoever, but i still get a shake at idle. i'm wondering if the VTC can go bad and not click. someone should hear my motor, its quiet odd.
my plan is to get a spare set of heads, P+P, cams, rebuild VTC, new injectors, new coils and whatever else will help me thats cheap.
my plan is to get a spare set of heads, P+P, cams, rebuild VTC, new injectors, new coils and whatever else will help me thats cheap.
04-28-2002, 06:03 PM
#19
you probably have a bad injector or coil plug then.
VTCs won't cause weird idle stuff, just a loss of power and lots of ticking noise.
Mike, please explain to me how an engine will produce more oil pressure if the pump didn't change and you simply added more to the reservoir in front of it.
Also explain how it will suddenly cause a worn spring to expand back to it's original strength and shape and stop making noises.
unclogged oil gallies have nothing to do with the noise. they're not hydraulic lifters that bleed down and tick when they get worn. it's a mechanical part that's physically not the same size and strength anymore because it's worn.
VTCs won't cause weird idle stuff, just a loss of power and lots of ticking noise.
Mike, please explain to me how an engine will produce more oil pressure if the pump didn't change and you simply added more to the reservoir in front of it.
Also explain how it will suddenly cause a worn spring to expand back to it's original strength and shape and stop making noises.
unclogged oil gallies have nothing to do with the noise. they're not hydraulic lifters that bleed down and tick when they get worn. it's a mechanical part that's physically not the same size and strength anymore because it's worn.
04-28-2002, 06:10 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
Originally posted by Matt93SE
you probably have a bad injector or coil plug then.
VTCs won't cause weird idle stuff, just a loss of power and lots of ticking noise.
Mike, please explain to me how an engine will produce more oil pressure if the pump didn't change and you simply added more to the reservoir in front of it.
Also explain how it will suddenly cause a worn spring to expand back to it's original strength and shape and stop making noises.
unclogged oil gallies have nothing to do with the noise. they're not hydraulic lifters that bleed down and tick when they get worn. it's a mechanical part that's physically not the same size and strength anymore because it's worn.
you probably have a bad injector or coil plug then.
VTCs won't cause weird idle stuff, just a loss of power and lots of ticking noise.
Mike, please explain to me how an engine will produce more oil pressure if the pump didn't change and you simply added more to the reservoir in front of it.
Also explain how it will suddenly cause a worn spring to expand back to it's original strength and shape and stop making noises.
unclogged oil gallies have nothing to do with the noise. they're not hydraulic lifters that bleed down and tick when they get worn. it's a mechanical part that's physically not the same size and strength anymore because it's worn.
how about aftermarket injectors? i was looking at the accel ones, but i question their reliability as i dont know many people with them (although, those i do know, havent had trouble)..i was thinking like 15lb/hr since stock is 13.5 (approx. if i've done my math right). would i need an new ECU to keep from running too rich/bad mileage?
if anyone has any suggestions for me, feel free to IM...sn is "beakmoney" or post here.
04-28-2002, 06:25 PM
#21
Originally posted by MaDMaX024
hmm...are there any cheaper but just as good alternatives to nissan coils? i really cant afford $55+S&H a piece..
how about aftermarket injectors? i was looking at the accel ones, but i question their reliability as i dont know many people with them (although, those i do know, havent had trouble)..i was thinking like 15lb/hr since stock is 13.5 (approx. if i've done my math right). would i need an new ECU to keep from running too rich/bad mileage?
if anyone has any suggestions for me, feel free to IM...sn is "beakmoney" or post here.
hmm...are there any cheaper but just as good alternatives to nissan coils? i really cant afford $55+S&H a piece..
how about aftermarket injectors? i was looking at the accel ones, but i question their reliability as i dont know many people with them (although, those i do know, havent had trouble)..i was thinking like 15lb/hr since stock is 13.5 (approx. if i've done my math right). would i need an new ECU to keep from running too rich/bad mileage?
if anyone has any suggestions for me, feel free to IM...sn is "beakmoney" or post here.
You may also just have leaky injectors. After replacing all the seals my idle has smoothed out quite a bit, and I'd also like to note that carbon deposits on my exhaust have pretty much gone away. And I didnt have to replace one injector.
So far I have only recieved two emails!!
But I also have to say that they are not that expensive, its just that neoprene go for pennies (buying bulk), while the others are only like .50 cents a piece (so its not as bad as I may have made it look
) I'm just giving away the extra that I don't need.Also Matt is right I dont want this to sound like some miracle cure for the common VTC (hehe). Also when you add too much oil, the crank slaps into the oil and causes foam!! so the oil pickup will suck up foam instead of a steady flow of oil and this will go to your lifters and they wont like that one bit. Too much oil is worse than too little.
04-28-2002, 06:35 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
Originally posted by eric93SE
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ht=pintle+caps
You may also just have leaky injectors. After replacing all the seals my idle has smoothed out quite a bit, and I'd also like to note that carbon deposits on my exhaust have pretty much gone away. And I didnt have to replace one injector.
So far I have only recieved two emails!!
But I also have to say that they are not that expensive, its just that neoprene go for pennies (buying bulk), while the others are only like .50 cents a piece (so its not as bad as I may have made it look ) I'm just giving away the extra that I don't need.
Also Matt is right I dont want this to sound like some miracle cure for the common VTC (hehe). Also when you add too much oil, the crank slaps into the oil and causes foam!! so the oil pickup will suck up foam instead of a steady flow of oil and this will go to your lifters and they wont like that one bit. Too much oil is worse than too little.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ht=pintle+caps
You may also just have leaky injectors. After replacing all the seals my idle has smoothed out quite a bit, and I'd also like to note that carbon deposits on my exhaust have pretty much gone away. And I didnt have to replace one injector.
So far I have only recieved two emails!!
But I also have to say that they are not that expensive, its just that neoprene go for pennies (buying bulk), while the others are only like .50 cents a piece (so its not as bad as I may have made it look
) I'm just giving away the extra that I don't need.Also Matt is right I dont want this to sound like some miracle cure for the common VTC (hehe). Also when you add too much oil, the crank slaps into the oil and causes foam!! so the oil pickup will suck up foam instead of a steady flow of oil and this will go to your lifters and they wont like that one bit. Too much oil is worse than too little.
04-28-2002, 06:41 PM
#23
Originally posted by eric93SE
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ht=pintle+caps
So far I have only recieved two emails!!
Also Matt is right I dont want this to sound like some miracle cure for the common VTC (hehe). Also when you add too much oil, the crank slaps into the oil and causes foam!! so the oil pickup will suck up foam instead of a steady flow of oil and this will go to your lifters and they wont like that one bit. Too much oil is worse than too little.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ht=pintle+caps
So far I have only recieved two emails!!
Also Matt is right I dont want this to sound like some miracle cure for the common VTC (hehe). Also when you add too much oil, the crank slaps into the oil and causes foam!! so the oil pickup will suck up foam instead of a steady flow of oil and this will go to your lifters and they wont like that one bit. Too much oil is worse than too little.
you got mine, correct?
and yes, I knew that about the oil.. It got to the point that it was blowing a cloud of smoke so thick that the headlights on the car behind me faded out and dissappeared! shiiiit!
then I figured out what it was.
04-28-2002, 10:34 PM
#25
VTCs what are those??
Eric, exactly how can you determine if the oil gallies inside the head were/wern't clogged up? Much less someone else tell you? You would have to put some type of video probe down the galley. If you took off the head and had it cleaned, there is no way to tell if the were/weren't clogged in the first place. You would only know that they are clean now.
I'd be interested in a set of o-rings if I'm not too late. Should take about 5 min to change.
Eric, exactly how can you determine if the oil gallies inside the head were/wern't clogged up? Much less someone else tell you? You would have to put some type of video probe down the galley. If you took off the head and had it cleaned, there is no way to tell if the were/weren't clogged in the first place. You would only know that they are clean now.
I'd be interested in a set of o-rings if I'm not too late. Should take about 5 min to change.
04-29-2002, 12:56 AM
#26
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 562
Originally posted by Matt93SE
now here's a funny story...
now here's a funny story...
...of course last time i put in just a little over 4 so look out, here comes the ticky!
04-29-2002, 11:54 AM
#27
So this morning I sent out three (matt, madmax, juanaboy). And there are four others already, so no more emails please. I'll post better info on where to order them, I don't think it would cost more than $20 (including shipp) to order a package.
Jeff, I see what your are saying. No I have not pulled the head or stuck a camera through the gallie. This is just my visual inspection of the hole leading down the solenoid (which is actually oil filled due to the oil filters antidrainback valve, I've been using AC Delco Ultraguard gold filters for a long time now UPF1232 (same for ve and vg))since they are no longer available through pepboys I order mine from carparts.com @ $10 a piece. I have over the past two years ran about three motor flushes and I'm pretty certain that there are no clogs in the oil gallies. Like I have mentioned before there are members on the org which have done full rebuilds and have noted there was only a varnish present. Like I said I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and its got us thinking there is a ton of crud leading up to the VTCs.
For the people who plan to replace these o-rings. I would like to let you know that they go in fairly snug and that when putting the solenoid in with the new o-rings that you should oil the o-ring up a lot so it slides in smoother. I don't think there is a chance of cutting the o-ring, but oiling them is a good idea.
Jeff, I see what your are saying. No I have not pulled the head or stuck a camera through the gallie. This is just my visual inspection of the hole leading down the solenoid (which is actually oil filled due to the oil filters antidrainback valve, I've been using AC Delco Ultraguard gold filters for a long time now UPF1232 (same for ve and vg))since they are no longer available through pepboys I order mine from carparts.com @ $10 a piece. I have over the past two years ran about three motor flushes and I'm pretty certain that there are no clogs in the oil gallies. Like I have mentioned before there are members on the org which have done full rebuilds and have noted there was only a varnish present. Like I said I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and its got us thinking there is a ton of crud leading up to the VTCs.
For the people who plan to replace these o-rings. I would like to let you know that they go in fairly snug and that when putting the solenoid in with the new o-rings that you should oil the o-ring up a lot so it slides in smoother. I don't think there is a chance of cutting the o-ring, but oiling them is a good idea.
04-29-2002, 12:02 PM
#28
Yeah, I've read that the AC Delco filters are good units. These VTC fail due to lack of oil. What else could be making them fail? The reason for the lack of oil is having too small of oil gallies feeding the assemblies.(ie works when clean but gets clogged rather easy) Have you seen the oil jets on the chain tensioner? It's like 1/16" or something. Very small.
I've had my heads off and my engine out. I can see how the gallies would be clogged as per the TSB. Case in point. I was removing my heads and the head of the allen bolts that hold the heads down were almost full of crud. I had to clean that crap out before I could get the allen head down there.
I've had my heads off and my engine out. I can see how the gallies would be clogged as per the TSB. Case in point. I was removing my heads and the head of the allen bolts that hold the heads down were almost full of crud. I had to clean that crap out before I could get the allen head down there.
Originally posted by eric93SE
Jeff, I see what your are saying. No I have not pulled the head or stuck a camera through the gallie. This is just my visual inspection of the hole leading down the solenoid (which is actually oil filled due to the oil filters antidrainback valve, I've been using AC Delco Ultraguard gold filters for a long time now UPF1232 (same for ve and vg))since they are no longer available through pepboys I order mine from carparts.com @ $10 a piece. I have over the past two years ran about three motor flushes and I'm pretty certain that there are no clogs in the oil gallies. Like I have mentioned before there are members on the org which have done full rebuilds and have noted there was only a varnish present. Like I said I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and its got us thinking there is a ton of crud leading up to the VTCs.
Jeff, I see what your are saying. No I have not pulled the head or stuck a camera through the gallie. This is just my visual inspection of the hole leading down the solenoid (which is actually oil filled due to the oil filters antidrainback valve, I've been using AC Delco Ultraguard gold filters for a long time now UPF1232 (same for ve and vg))since they are no longer available through pepboys I order mine from carparts.com @ $10 a piece. I have over the past two years ran about three motor flushes and I'm pretty certain that there are no clogs in the oil gallies. Like I have mentioned before there are members on the org which have done full rebuilds and have noted there was only a varnish present. Like I said I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and its got us thinking there is a ton of crud leading up to the VTCs.
04-29-2002, 02:04 PM
#30
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Yeah, I've read that the AC Delco filters are good units. These VTC fail due to lack of oil. What else could be making them fail? The reason for the lack of oil is having too small of oil gallies feeding the assemblies.(ie works when clean but gets clogged rather easy) Have you seen the oil jets on the chain tensioner? It's like 1/16" or something. Very small.
I've had my heads off and my engine out. I can see how the gallies would be clogged as per the TSB. Case in point. I was removing my heads and the head of the allen bolts that hold the heads down were almost full of crud. I had to clean that crap out before I could get the allen head down there.
Yeah, I've read that the AC Delco filters are good units. These VTC fail due to lack of oil. What else could be making them fail? The reason for the lack of oil is having too small of oil gallies feeding the assemblies.(ie works when clean but gets clogged rather easy) Have you seen the oil jets on the chain tensioner? It's like 1/16" or something. Very small.
I've had my heads off and my engine out. I can see how the gallies would be clogged as per the TSB. Case in point. I was removing my heads and the head of the allen bolts that hold the heads down were almost full of crud. I had to clean that crap out before I could get the allen head down there.
, Case in point: when typing and thinking, try not to stare at the hot asian chicks thong. Uhh anyway I'm not saying I'm %100 correct on this, This is also why I'm giving out these o-rings, to see if it will help others. The other main reson why the VTCs are not engaging (tick tick) fully is that the terminals are corroded on the solenoid and need cleaning.
04-29-2002, 03:01 PM
#31
Eric, was it you that wanted to know what was in the VTC rebuild kit? if so, here it is.. just got them from courtesy today.
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...spring_kit.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...spring_kit.jpg
04-29-2002, 03:18 PM
#32
haha. I've had one kit rattling around in my trunk for about 2 years.
Originally posted by Matt93SE
Eric, was it you that wanted to know what was in the VTC rebuild kit? if so, here it is.. just got them from courtesy today.
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...spring_kit.jpg
Eric, was it you that wanted to know what was in the VTC rebuild kit? if so, here it is.. just got them from courtesy today.
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...spring_kit.jpg
04-29-2002, 07:45 PM
#34
Thanks for the pic matt. So that large o-ring for the sproket could be whats leaking the oil press. also (covering my tracks hehe). It's good that you are getting to service the VTCs before any real damage is done. Thats what it's all about, preventive maintainance.
Damn and I just ordered the lower intake manifold gasket, maybe I should have just ordered the whole gasket kit and gone ahead and done the VTCs service kit as well.
Damn and I just ordered the lower intake manifold gasket, maybe I should have just ordered the whole gasket kit and gone ahead and done the VTCs service kit as well.
05-02-2002, 12:27 AM
#35
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 29
Weird Story
I'm pretty new to the whole VTC issue (if not nissans as well as automobiles in general). I recently purchased a 5spd 92SE and of course got it checked out by a mechanic. He said everything looked good except what appeared to be 2 plugs that were very slowly leaking oil and he said would eventually have to be replaced. I asked him how much and he said it would be about $75 for the parts. I told him to go ahead and order them and he never called me back.
(sorry- PUNCHLINE)
After looking at the VTC images on Craig B's site, I'm about 95% sure that those are what I had previously thought were plugs. This leads me to believe that my mechanic knows nothing about Nissans and that he realized his mistake when he looked up the parts to order them. Thats probably why he hasn't called me back considering he gave me the AOK to buy the car.
How messed up is that? I haven't gone to see him yet but I'm thinking I should swing by and have him make good on the "plug" replacement.
Is it normal for the VTCs to have a coat of oil on the outside? I don't recall hearing the ticking when I initially baught the car (w/ 125k) but after putting on my first 1k I'm starting to hear it for the the first 2min in idle after cold start. I have not as of yet done any maintenance on the car which may have been a very dumb move on my part. The previous owners did however take very good care of the car. I wonder if an oil change and oil filter change will solve my problems?
Hopefully...
Thanks for the help with my questions. I've learned so much from this site already. In the past 5 days I fixed my door lock timer as well as my intermittent horn problem. I just wish I had a garage for some of this stuff. Its tough working out of a tiny college apartment. I'm lucky I have a driveway though
(sorry- PUNCHLINE)
After looking at the VTC images on Craig B's site, I'm about 95% sure that those are what I had previously thought were plugs. This leads me to believe that my mechanic knows nothing about Nissans and that he realized his mistake when he looked up the parts to order them. Thats probably why he hasn't called me back considering he gave me the AOK to buy the car.
How messed up is that? I haven't gone to see him yet but I'm thinking I should swing by and have him make good on the "plug" replacement.
Is it normal for the VTCs to have a coat of oil on the outside? I don't recall hearing the ticking when I initially baught the car (w/ 125k) but after putting on my first 1k I'm starting to hear it for the the first 2min in idle after cold start. I have not as of yet done any maintenance on the car which may have been a very dumb move on my part. The previous owners did however take very good care of the car. I wonder if an oil change and oil filter change will solve my problems?
Hopefully...
Thanks for the help with my questions. I've learned so much from this site already. In the past 5 days I fixed my door lock timer as well as my intermittent horn problem. I just wish I had a garage for some of this stuff. Its tough working out of a tiny college apartment. I'm lucky I have a driveway though
05-02-2002, 10:17 AM
#36
Re: Weird Story
Originally posted by ezra
I'm pretty new to the whole VTC issue (if not nissans as well as automobiles in general). I recently purchased a 5spd 92SE and of course got it checked out by a mechanic. He said everything looked good except what appeared to be 2 plugs that were very slowly leaking oil and he said would eventually have to be replaced. I asked him how much and he said it would be about $75 for the parts. I told him to go ahead and order them and he never called me back.
(sorry- PUNCHLINE)
After looking at the VTC images on Craig B's site, I'm about 95% sure that those are what I had previously thought were plugs. This leads me to believe that my mechanic knows nothing about Nissans and that he realized his mistake when he looked up the parts to order them. Thats probably why he hasn't called me back considering he gave me the AOK to buy the car.
How messed up is that? I haven't gone to see him yet but I'm thinking I should swing by and have him make good on the "plug" replacement.
Is it normal for the VTCs to have a coat of oil on the outside? I don't recall hearing the ticking when I initially baught the car (w/ 125k) but after putting on my first 1k I'm starting to hear it for the the first 2min in idle after cold start. I have not as of yet done any maintenance on the car which may have been a very dumb move on my part. The previous owners did however take very good care of the car. I wonder if an oil change and oil filter change will solve my problems?
Hopefully...
Thanks for the help with my questions. I've learned so much from this site already. In the past 5 days I fixed my door lock timer as well as my intermittent horn problem. I just wish I had a garage for some of this stuff. Its tough working out of a tiny college apartment. I'm lucky I have a driveway though
I'm pretty new to the whole VTC issue (if not nissans as well as automobiles in general). I recently purchased a 5spd 92SE and of course got it checked out by a mechanic. He said everything looked good except what appeared to be 2 plugs that were very slowly leaking oil and he said would eventually have to be replaced. I asked him how much and he said it would be about $75 for the parts. I told him to go ahead and order them and he never called me back.
(sorry- PUNCHLINE)
After looking at the VTC images on Craig B's site, I'm about 95% sure that those are what I had previously thought were plugs. This leads me to believe that my mechanic knows nothing about Nissans and that he realized his mistake when he looked up the parts to order them. Thats probably why he hasn't called me back considering he gave me the AOK to buy the car.
How messed up is that? I haven't gone to see him yet but I'm thinking I should swing by and have him make good on the "plug" replacement.
Is it normal for the VTCs to have a coat of oil on the outside? I don't recall hearing the ticking when I initially baught the car (w/ 125k) but after putting on my first 1k I'm starting to hear it for the the first 2min in idle after cold start. I have not as of yet done any maintenance on the car which may have been a very dumb move on my part. The previous owners did however take very good care of the car. I wonder if an oil change and oil filter change will solve my problems?
Hopefully...
Thanks for the help with my questions. I've learned so much from this site already. In the past 5 days I fixed my door lock timer as well as my intermittent horn problem. I just wish I had a garage for some of this stuff. Its tough working out of a tiny college apartment. I'm lucky I have a driveway though
So on tuesday I sent out o-rings to Alexander, Philllip, Jeremy, and Michael. I have not reposted b/c I had a presentation to do for one of my classes.
05-02-2002, 11:10 AM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 496
Yes, I had two reputable Nissan mechanics tell me that the plugged oil gallies are not the single cause for failure and that they have seen many that are not clogged with the VTC problem, as early as 60K miles.
I see what you are saying Matt, but there are people on the org who have done the full rebuild and have noted that there gallies were not plugged, and that only maybe a varnish was present. I have in the past had the VTC tick and I know that the gallies on my max are in no way plugged. I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and maybe a bit of nissan fault not describing what causes the problem.
I see that my email is not listed in the profile so here it is ebaumber@msn.com and I'll send to the first seven people a set for free, just send me a mail address. [/B]
I see what you are saying Matt, but there are people on the org who have done the full rebuild and have noted that there gallies were not plugged, and that only maybe a varnish was present. I have in the past had the VTC tick and I know that the gallies on my max are in no way plugged. I think we have misunderstood the TSB, and maybe a bit of nissan fault not describing what causes the problem.
I see that my email is not listed in the profile so here it is ebaumber@msn.com and I'll send to the first seven people a set for free, just send me a mail address. [/B]
05-02-2002, 11:22 AM
#38
Probably the reason Nissan developed a special oil filter for their engines that feature VTCs. ie.. Q45, VE maxima, 300ztt, some jdm models etc..
Lack of oil upon first start-up would be another reason and low oil level would be another I guess.
What were the other reasons they gave?
Most of this stuff has been addressed in my FAQ that MaximaMike kindly hosted for me.
Lack of oil upon first start-up would be another reason and low oil level would be another I guess.
What were the other reasons they gave?
Most of this stuff has been addressed in my FAQ that MaximaMike kindly hosted for me.
Originally posted by Bryan91SE
Yes, I had two reputable Nissan mechanics tell me that the plugged oil gallies are not the single cause for failure and that they have seen many that are not clogged with the VTC problem, as early as 60K miles.
Yes, I had two reputable Nissan mechanics tell me that the plugged oil gallies are not the single cause for failure and that they have seen many that are not clogged with the VTC problem, as early as 60K miles.
05-02-2002, 11:55 AM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 496
I can't recall. I just remember him mentioning the galley plugging was not always the sole cause. He said he's performed the VTC procedure when the oil gallies were unplugged with the VTC failure. But like you said, did he stick a camera probe in them? Perhaps he didn't see "gunk" come out. It all goes to the premise of a lack of oil though.
I've done the rewire and never have a problem except for 1-2 seconds during startup.
I've done the rewire and never have a problem except for 1-2 seconds during startup.
05-02-2002, 05:41 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
Re: Re: Weird Story
Originally posted by eric93SE
Definitley do the oil/filter change. When you buy a used car you don't know if they neglected the oil or not, and you have no idea how long the current oil has been in there. It would'nt hurt to run a motor flush while your at it.
So on tuesday I sent out o-rings to Alexander, Philllip, Jeremy, and Michael. I have not reposted b/c I had a presentation to do for one of my classes.
Definitley do the oil/filter change. When you buy a used car you don't know if they neglected the oil or not, and you have no idea how long the current oil has been in there. It would'nt hurt to run a motor flush while your at it.
So on tuesday I sent out o-rings to Alexander, Philllip, Jeremy, and Michael. I have not reposted b/c I had a presentation to do for one of my classes.
thanks!!!!!(i got them yesterday)