Does the Maxima Look Slow??
Does the Maxima Look Slow??
I rarely talk about racing stories, but this one I had to mention.
Last night, I was driving home from a friend's house around midnight. I pull up at a red light and next to me pulls up a riced out Chevy Cavalier. It's got a combat kit front end, rims, system, and I notice a huge spoiler. I don't even think it was the Z24 model. My car looks stock except for my clear corners, but even stock the maxima is faster than this car.
This was the first time I've ever been "egged" on verbally. The two kids in the car start shouting out their window. They keep reving the engine and saying "Come on pu$$y, want to race?" I just look back and nod my head. When the light turns green, he's spinning his tires out, and I make sure to give my car the right amount of gas so I don't spin out. It wasn't even close. I jumped ahead, and just put a huge amount of distance between us.
The next light is red, so I slow down and he eventually stops next to me. His friend is laughing, and saying how he got his a$$ kicked. He asked if I had some type of boost. I just told him I only have a few bolt on's. So the light turns green again, and he takes off. I give him about a car length and then I just floor it. I passed him without any problem, before the next light he turns off on a road and I just drive home.
So if anyone in the Philadelphia area run's into this Cavalier (black with blue decals/splash marks along the sides, combat kit, rims, and a dual level spoiler) remind him of how slow his car is.
Last night, I was driving home from a friend's house around midnight. I pull up at a red light and next to me pulls up a riced out Chevy Cavalier. It's got a combat kit front end, rims, system, and I notice a huge spoiler. I don't even think it was the Z24 model. My car looks stock except for my clear corners, but even stock the maxima is faster than this car.
This was the first time I've ever been "egged" on verbally. The two kids in the car start shouting out their window. They keep reving the engine and saying "Come on pu$$y, want to race?" I just look back and nod my head. When the light turns green, he's spinning his tires out, and I make sure to give my car the right amount of gas so I don't spin out. It wasn't even close. I jumped ahead, and just put a huge amount of distance between us.
The next light is red, so I slow down and he eventually stops next to me. His friend is laughing, and saying how he got his a$$ kicked. He asked if I had some type of boost. I just told him I only have a few bolt on's. So the light turns green again, and he takes off. I give him about a car length and then I just floor it. I passed him without any problem, before the next light he turns off on a road and I just drive home.
So if anyone in the Philadelphia area run's into this Cavalier (black with blue decals/splash marks along the sides, combat kit, rims, and a dual level spoiler) remind him of how slow his car is.
our car does look slow.
4dr family car?? of course everyone's gonna think it's a slow car. and not that many ppl know the capabilities of a maxima. well alot of my friends that think honda is the s**t dont know wat a max is capable of.
4dr family car?? of course everyone's gonna think it's a slow car. and not that many ppl know the capabilities of a maxima. well alot of my friends that think honda is the s**t dont know wat a max is capable of.
In my opinion, that's one of the great things about the Maxima. It is a very elegant looking car, and doesn't look all that aggresive or fast. That makes it all the more fun when the rice guys don't know what they've got coming, and a bone stock Max blows their four banger off the road. Gotta love it.
The "cavvy's" so they are referred to are slow as freakin *****. If its not the 2.4L z24 its even worse. I know someone who ran a 18.1 in an automatic 2.2L and actually beat 2 other "J-body's" with that time. I think there may be a few turbo'd z24s here and there though.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally posted by ericdwong
The "cavvy's" so they are referred to are slow as freakin *****. If its not the 2.4L z24 its even worse. I know someone who ran a 18.1 in an automatic 2.2L and actually beat 2 other "J-body's" with that time. I think there may be a few turbo'd z24s here and there though.
The "cavvy's" so they are referred to are slow as freakin *****. If its not the 2.4L z24 its even worse. I know someone who ran a 18.1 in an automatic 2.2L and actually beat 2 other "J-body's" with that time. I think there may be a few turbo'd z24s here and there though.
Yes they do make blowers for Cavaliers or sunfires and Saturns if you look closely at Sport compact car youll see it. Also in one of my HCI magazines I seen two cars that I believe at SEMA had blowers in them. I dont know how fast they are but would be interested to see one of them run us.
you should looked at him
and shook your head and pointed ahead with confidence knowing your going to put the ghetto smack on that azzz.I ran into a new Mustang GT like that and a FAT CHICK was driving it all rized out revving under the bridge but didnt want to run, she probably couldnt even shift with a big Tach on her car.
Re: Let me put it this way...
the maxima isnt a fast car.. 
i dont know where you are all getting this, but the maxima is pretty slow, with exception to a few on this board, a lot of v6's out there can beat us, and tons of v8s will walk all over us, i dont know what you guys are smoking, but by beating a civic or cavalier or whatever doesnt make a maxima fast..

i dont know where you are all getting this, but the maxima is pretty slow, with exception to a few on this board, a lot of v6's out there can beat us, and tons of v8s will walk all over us, i dont know what you guys are smoking, but by beating a civic or cavalier or whatever doesnt make a maxima fast..
Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
a lot of v6's out there can beat us
a lot of v6's out there can beat us
-Cyrus
From the way it looks around my area I think the Cavilier is the new civic They are many riced out Cavys around, most are not even Z-24s. I don't really think they are that bad looking (stock) but if you want a laugh read the review of the Cavilier in consumer reports.
From the times I have looked at the Maxima is pretty quick by 4 door sedan standards and in some cases by 'sporty' car standards as well.
From the times I have looked at the Maxima is pretty quick by 4 door sedan standards and in some cases by 'sporty' car standards as well.
Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
the maxima isnt a fast car..
i dont know where you are all getting this, but the maxima is pretty slow, with exception to a few on this board, a lot of v6's out there can beat us, and tons of v8s will walk all over us, i dont know what you guys are smoking, but by beating a civic or cavalier or whatever doesnt make a maxima fast..
the maxima isnt a fast car..

i dont know where you are all getting this, but the maxima is pretty slow, with exception to a few on this board, a lot of v6's out there can beat us, and tons of v8s will walk all over us, i dont know what you guys are smoking, but by beating a civic or cavalier or whatever doesnt make a maxima fast..
Mostly in the past few years have cars received more and more horsepower. I think Nissan's done a good job of keeping the trend up.
**Also, my post wasn't to talk about walking a car, it was more about how the kid was really looking for a race. And then didn't expect to lose. I'd figure kids that are into cars would know what's going to be a close race.
I mean I don't go looking for races with M3's or Corvettes. But if a grand prix want's to run, I'll see what happens, at least it'll be close.
Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by breaux124
Actually year for year, I think the maxima is a pretty quick v6. What NA V6's are much faster than the maxima in the same year?
Actually year for year, I think the maxima is a pretty quick v6. What NA V6's are much faster than the maxima in the same year?
Almost any Mercedes 6 cylinder
Acura TL or CL Type S
Accord v6 (because of weight, but 5-spds can easily take them)
i just wouldnt label the maxima as a fast car by any means.. maybe it has decent acceleration and some decent mid/top end, but its nothing to write home about.. go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
BMW 3 series
Almost any Mercedes 6 cylinder
Acura TL or CL Type S
Accord v6 (because of weight, but 5-spds can easily take them)
i just wouldnt label the maxima as a fast car by any means.. maybe it has decent acceleration and some decent mid/top end, but its nothing to write home about.. go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
BMW 3 series
Almost any Mercedes 6 cylinder
Acura TL or CL Type S
Accord v6 (because of weight, but 5-spds can easily take them)
i just wouldnt label the maxima as a fast car by any means.. maybe it has decent acceleration and some decent mid/top end, but its nothing to write home about.. go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
It's not the fastest I admit, but it's towards the top for v6 non-sports cars.
Originally posted by Iqb316
Hahah, awesome kill! Even some Cavalier guys are as bad as the Civic people.
Hahah, awesome kill! Even some Cavalier guys are as bad as the Civic people.
HAHAHA LMFAO!@!!! that's the funniest pic i ever seen!!! nuts on his eye and ****!!! hahaha, the maxima LOOKS slow cause it looks like a family sedan but its reputation is too high. Even the riced out haters from honda know that the maxima is a great challenge
um...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
and to answer the question, the maxima doesnt look fast unless you mod it, but it also doesnt look slow. i think the maxima is pretty damn fast for a V6 4 door sedan. i know its not the fastest, but its up there in its class.
and since when are V6 accords faster than us (VQ)?
How the Max got me
I didn't think that a Maxima was fast and I was about to get one until one day I drove my friends Max and ever since then I had to get one. The handling and the fastness to 0-50 got me. It was also a GLE and had everything I like in a car. By the way I kinda like it more than my Jag.
Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
the maxima isnt a fast car..
i dont know where you are all getting this, but the maxima is pretty slow, with exception to a few on this board, a lot of v6's out there can beat us, and tons of v8s will walk all over us, i dont know what you guys are smoking, but by beating a civic or cavalier or whatever doesnt make a maxima fast..
the maxima isnt a fast car..

i dont know where you are all getting this, but the maxima is pretty slow, with exception to a few on this board, a lot of v6's out there can beat us, and tons of v8s will walk all over us, i dont know what you guys are smoking, but by beating a civic or cavalier or whatever doesnt make a maxima fast..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
BMW 3 series
Almost any Mercedes 6 cylinder
Acura TL or CL Type S
Accord v6 (because of weight, but 5-spds can easily take them)
i just wouldnt label the maxima as a fast car by any means.. maybe it has decent acceleration and some decent mid/top end, but its nothing to write home about.. go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
BMW 3 series
Almost any Mercedes 6 cylinder
Acura TL or CL Type S
Accord v6 (because of weight, but 5-spds can easily take them)
i just wouldnt label the maxima as a fast car by any means.. maybe it has decent acceleration and some decent mid/top end, but its nothing to write home about.. go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
96 BMW 325i
96 Mazda Millenia S
96 Acura 3.2TL
96 Lexus ES300
96 Mercedes-Benz c-class
Also does better in the skidpad than all of those.
If you want to read a good shoot out, MT Sept. 1995 v47 n9 p88.
I did write home about my I30t. I am laughing at you not my v6.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by I30tMikeD
My 96 I30T is faster than:
96 BMW 325i
96 Mazda Millenia S
96 Acura 3.2TL
96 Lexus ES300
96 Mercedes-Benz c-class
Also does better in the skidpad than all of those.
If you want to read a good shoot out, MT Sept. 1995 v47 n9 p88.
I did write home about my I30t. I am laughing at you not my v6.
My 96 I30T is faster than:
96 BMW 325i
96 Mazda Millenia S
96 Acura 3.2TL
96 Lexus ES300
96 Mercedes-Benz c-class
Also does better in the skidpad than all of those.
If you want to read a good shoot out, MT Sept. 1995 v47 n9 p88.
I did write home about my I30t. I am laughing at you not my v6.
and..not everyone cares about going fast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
BMW 3 series
Almost any Mercedes 6 cylinder
Acura TL or CL Type S
Accord v6 (because of weight, but 5-spds can easily take them)
i just wouldnt label the maxima as a fast car by any means.. maybe it has decent acceleration and some decent mid/top end, but its nothing to write home about.. go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
BMW 3 series
Almost any Mercedes 6 cylinder
Acura TL or CL Type S
Accord v6 (because of weight, but 5-spds can easily take them)
i just wouldnt label the maxima as a fast car by any means.. maybe it has decent acceleration and some decent mid/top end, but its nothing to write home about.. go test drive a 330ci or a tl type s.. you'll laugh at nissan's v6
The ONLY BMWs I would want would be an M3 /X5 or a 7 series just because of how well the suspension is tuned. Yes I have driven both the 7 on a near daily basis for the past 2 months the other time driving a S500. FYI the gear shift system on the 7 blows its like they try half clutching it when you push it a little, for those interested I am talking about the 740iL sport 2001.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by Finality
Please stop the obsessions with BMWs they are not fantastic cars they are good cars. If you put it up on such a high pedastle you will be sorely disappointed once you get to drive one. The above comments goes to everyone on this forum who seems obsessed about mentioning BMWs everytime they want to talk about the best of the best
The ONLY BMWs I would want would be an M3 /X5 or a 7 series just because of how well the suspension is tuned. Yes I have driven both the 7 on a near daily basis for the past 2 months the other time driving a S500. FYI the gear shift system on the 7 blows its like they try half clutching it when you push it a little, for those interested I am talking about the 740iL sport 2001.
Please stop the obsessions with BMWs they are not fantastic cars they are good cars. If you put it up on such a high pedastle you will be sorely disappointed once you get to drive one. The above comments goes to everyone on this forum who seems obsessed about mentioning BMWs everytime they want to talk about the best of the best
The ONLY BMWs I would want would be an M3 /X5 or a 7 series just because of how well the suspension is tuned. Yes I have driven both the 7 on a near daily basis for the past 2 months the other time driving a S500. FYI the gear shift system on the 7 blows its like they try half clutching it when you push it a little, for those interested I am talking about the 740iL sport 2001.
and your i30t is faster than a 2.5 liter bmw, an older honda engine, and all of those other heavier cars.. and you can laugh at me all you like, i really dont care..
i also dont consider my bumper being an inch ahead of someone's car a win either.. when i mean FASTER.. i mean 2-3 car lengths on someone by 80mph.
im not going to reply to this thread anymore because i am just whoring it up, i just think its pathetic to hear people call the maxima a fast car when it's stock, even the 2k2.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
I would really have to disagree with this dude our cars our not fast, now look here our cars are 4 door V6 Sedans our 5 speed 4th gens can take 4.6L Mustang V8 Mustangs. Mustangs in my eyes are muscle cars. Of course stock for stock they may not but they can closely hang.
to the idiot saying maximas arent fast
THose cars (330, tl & cl-s, mercedes) are all in the same class. THe 330 ran a 15 flat in the latest M/T. The tl and cl-s arent much faster I think a mag test of 14.8 or so. THey may be mag times but the 95 ran a 15.2 in the 1/4. in its day. That was 7 years ago. I hear about people running stock 14.8 1/4's. Dont give this they arent fast crap. I feel confident enough not to lose any races to another 4 door sedan, with the exception of the M's and the high dollar merecedes. If these cars arent fast how come everyone who goes for a ride in my 95 just about ****s a brick in amazement and has the biggest freaking smile on their face? Gee I wonder why that is? When we got this 95 my friends brother had a 93 camaro z-28 auto. He couldnt tell which was faster. Just because its not supercar fast doesnt mean its not fast. Its all relative to everything else. So quit being lame.
que?
BMW 328i, walked him(Iknow my friend was driving and he has a max the BMW was his sisters).
3.2CL type-s Hung with the back of the door was at my bumper.
I beat Mustang GT's all the time except for newer ones but I have taken a few.
Accord v-6 Walked from them many of times.
Whats the deal here? Our cars are pretty quick grocery getters! And BTW, the new passat W-8 only runs 7.2 to 60 and 15.6 in the 1/4...that sucks for an eight, and those cars are not that big!
3.2CL type-s Hung with the back of the door was at my bumper.
I beat Mustang GT's all the time except for newer ones but I have taken a few.
Accord v-6 Walked from them many of times.
Whats the deal here? Our cars are pretty quick grocery getters! And BTW, the new passat W-8 only runs 7.2 to 60 and 15.6 in the 1/4...that sucks for an eight, and those cars are not that big!
Originally posted by ImStockBaby
What i like bout it:
one of the lightest 4 doors u can get(4th gen)
VQ with *hitload of potential and reliability
Easily moddable
Comes in a 5 speed
Cars like it: 0
(well 1 if u count the I30)
What i like bout it:
one of the lightest 4 doors u can get(4th gen)
VQ with *hitload of potential and reliability
Easily moddable
Comes in a 5 speed
Cars like it: 0
(well 1 if u count the I30)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me put it this way...
Originally posted by thebigsadler
a 2003 5-spd bmw 330i is pretty damn nice.. i should know, there is one in my garage..
and your i30t is faster than a 2.5 liter bmw, an older honda engine, and all of those other heavier cars.. and you can laugh at me all you like, i really dont care..
i also dont consider my bumper being an inch ahead of someone's car a win either.. when i mean FASTER.. i mean 2-3 car lengths on someone by 80mph.
im not going to reply to this thread anymore because i am just whoring it up, i just think its pathetic to hear people call the maxima a fast car when it's stock, even the 2k2.
a 2003 5-spd bmw 330i is pretty damn nice.. i should know, there is one in my garage..
and your i30t is faster than a 2.5 liter bmw, an older honda engine, and all of those other heavier cars.. and you can laugh at me all you like, i really dont care..
i also dont consider my bumper being an inch ahead of someone's car a win either.. when i mean FASTER.. i mean 2-3 car lengths on someone by 80mph.
im not going to reply to this thread anymore because i am just whoring it up, i just think its pathetic to hear people call the maxima a fast car when it's stock, even the 2k2.
Winning by an inch is winning.
3 car lengths is getting beat pretty bad.
Yup, Maxima's look slow, especially mine, you can check my sig for that. 
I just got my 5-speed in 2 days ago guys. Jason (bigsadler)..PLEASE shut your mouth. You DON'T know what your talking about. Automatic Maxima's are slow from a stop. Your car is probubly slow. When I had my automatic I couldn't even squeek the tires off the line. Now that my 5spd is in I SPIN ALL THE WAY THROUGH 1ST GEAR. No joke! The 5-speed is so so powerfull. My car, with it's current mods, would do 0-60 in low 6's with an average/good driver, and in around 5.8 with theblue driving. I suggest you go take another ride in Chaz's Maxima before you open your mouth again...although he drove mine and said mine is faster.
I'm going to make a HUGE thread about my conversion...I just need to get my pictures developed...don't worry guys I didn't forget.

I just got my 5-speed in 2 days ago guys. Jason (bigsadler)..PLEASE shut your mouth. You DON'T know what your talking about. Automatic Maxima's are slow from a stop. Your car is probubly slow. When I had my automatic I couldn't even squeek the tires off the line. Now that my 5spd is in I SPIN ALL THE WAY THROUGH 1ST GEAR. No joke! The 5-speed is so so powerfull. My car, with it's current mods, would do 0-60 in low 6's with an average/good driver, and in around 5.8 with theblue driving. I suggest you go take another ride in Chaz's Maxima before you open your mouth again...although he drove mine and said mine is faster.

I'm going to make a HUGE thread about my conversion...I just need to get my pictures developed...don't worry guys I didn't forget.
Originally posted by Craig Mack
Yup, Maxima's look slow, especially mine, you can check my sig for that.
I just got my 5-speed in 2 days ago guys. Jason (bigsadler)..PLEASE shut your mouth. You DON'T know what your talking about. Automatic Maxima's are slow from a stop. Your car is probubly slow. When I had my automatic I couldn't even squeek the tires off the line. Now that my 5spd is in I SPIN ALL THE WAY THROUGH 1ST GEAR. No joke! The 5-speed is so so powerfull. My car, with it's current mods, would do 0-60 in low 6's with an average/good driver, and in around 5.8 with theblue driving. I suggest you go take another ride in Chaz's Maxima before you open your mouth again...although he drove mine and said mine is faster.
I'm going to make a HUGE thread about my conversion...I just need to get my pictures developed...don't worry guys I didn't forget.
Yup, Maxima's look slow, especially mine, you can check my sig for that.

I just got my 5-speed in 2 days ago guys. Jason (bigsadler)..PLEASE shut your mouth. You DON'T know what your talking about. Automatic Maxima's are slow from a stop. Your car is probubly slow. When I had my automatic I couldn't even squeek the tires off the line. Now that my 5spd is in I SPIN ALL THE WAY THROUGH 1ST GEAR. No joke! The 5-speed is so so powerfull. My car, with it's current mods, would do 0-60 in low 6's with an average/good driver, and in around 5.8 with theblue driving. I suggest you go take another ride in Chaz's Maxima before you open your mouth again...although he drove mine and said mine is faster.

I'm going to make a HUGE thread about my conversion...I just need to get my pictures developed...don't worry guys I didn't forget.
Craig, you do know spinning your tires isn't exactly a good thing right? Spinning all the way through first gear? lol...man, if you were at a track, you probably get a bad time.
What's with you and 0-60 times? 1/4 time is more important. Speaking of which Craig, you should race your new 5spd at the track one day. Then, we'll see how fast you are exactly. As you know, talk is cheap.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Re: que?
Originally posted by KINGMAX
BMW 328i, walked him(Iknow my friend was driving and he has a max the BMW was his sisters).
3.2CL type-s Hung with the back of the door was at my bumper.
I beat Mustang GT's all the time except for newer ones but I have taken a few.
Accord v-6 Walked from them many of times.
Whats the deal here? Our cars are pretty quick grocery getters! And BTW, the new passat W-8 only runs 7.2 to 60 and 15.6 in the 1/4...that sucks for an eight, and those cars are not that big!
BMW 328i, walked him(Iknow my friend was driving and he has a max the BMW was his sisters).
3.2CL type-s Hung with the back of the door was at my bumper.
I beat Mustang GT's all the time except for newer ones but I have taken a few.
Accord v-6 Walked from them many of times.
Whats the deal here? Our cars are pretty quick grocery getters! And BTW, the new passat W-8 only runs 7.2 to 60 and 15.6 in the 1/4...that sucks for an eight, and those cars are not that big!
, what da hell thats VWs V8, something must not be right about those numbers unless the car is very heavy. Anyways I like my car looking slow but we all know 5 speeds are not slow, heck even Cumalots car is not slow, None of the Hondas wont dare to even line up with him, even when I was NA very few cars lined up with me, I mean look at the video Cumalot and a newer model GTP and our cars are suppose to be slow. Well I love my car and is fast enough for me.
Originally posted by Craig Mack
Yup, Maxima's look slow, especially mine, you can check my sig for that.
I just got my 5-speed in 2 days ago guys. Jason (bigsadler)..PLEASE shut your mouth. You DON'T know what your talking about. Automatic Maxima's are slow from a stop. Your car is probubly slow. When I had my automatic I couldn't even squeek the tires off the line. Now that my 5spd is in I SPIN ALL THE WAY THROUGH 1ST GEAR. No joke! The 5-speed is so so powerfull. My car, with it's current mods, would do 0-60 in low 6's with an average/good driver, and in around 5.8 with theblue driving. I suggest you go take another ride in Chaz's Maxima before you open your mouth again...although he drove mine and said mine is faster.
I'm going to make a HUGE thread about my conversion...I just need to get my pictures developed...don't worry guys I didn't forget.
Yup, Maxima's look slow, especially mine, you can check my sig for that.

I just got my 5-speed in 2 days ago guys. Jason (bigsadler)..PLEASE shut your mouth. You DON'T know what your talking about. Automatic Maxima's are slow from a stop. Your car is probubly slow. When I had my automatic I couldn't even squeek the tires off the line. Now that my 5spd is in I SPIN ALL THE WAY THROUGH 1ST GEAR. No joke! The 5-speed is so so powerfull. My car, with it's current mods, would do 0-60 in low 6's with an average/good driver, and in around 5.8 with theblue driving. I suggest you go take another ride in Chaz's Maxima before you open your mouth again...although he drove mine and said mine is faster.

I'm going to make a HUGE thread about my conversion...I just need to get my pictures developed...don't worry guys I didn't forget.
congrats on the conversion and sometime we'll have to meet up when im back in florida so i can take a ride in your car..
all i am trying to say is that a mildly modded is300 5-speed or 330 5-speed or so on and so forth would beat the maxima.
and winning by an inch, as i said before is not winning to ME, that's pressing the pedal a tenth of a second sooner or some sh*t..
and what does me not driving in 96 have to do with anything at all????




