Sprint

iTrader: (10)

good

my max weighs 2830 lbs ... maxima's run mid to low 14's without an engine swap.. with just simple bolt-on's.. so if you want to spend the money doing a swap to run mid 14's..go ahead... also keep in mind the Accord already cost more to begin with..

so with a swap and a turbo.. you are running low 13's? jeez... all you need is a Supercharger and a smaller pulley on a maxima and you are runnign low 13's.. again if you want the head ace of the swap.. go ahead..

to eaches own.. 5Gen's look wierd in the rear and the front looks like a fly ...

uh huh...

FYI.. check that 1/4 forum for yoru so called "no backup"

SteVTEC

dude...there's a 1/4 mile forum here. Check it out. A guy with a bone stock 96 5spd just posted up a 15.19s @ 90.25mph run. It was extremely humid, and his shift points were less than optimal, meaning there was room for improvement on even that. 4G 5spd Max's can hig high-14's stock. And if you look in the moderated section of the 1/4 mile forum, you'll see PLENTY of people in the 14's. Even 4G autos solidly hit mid-15's with just an intake.

That's with full bolt-on's, not a stock H22A. And if you want something reliable that won't break down, then why are you even talking about turboing?? When you push an engine like that, all it takes is one faulty injector to lean out a cylinder and grenade your engine.

Thoughts?

If you want something reasonably quick and also reliable, forget about Honda. The only way to make Honda's fast is to mod the crap out of them because they're slow as shia from the factory. I was reading on SuperHonda.com awhile ago, and this guy had a 5G Accord auto (4-cyl) and had just about every bolt-on and also a 70-shot of NOS. Do you know what he ran? A 15.96!! After all that time and money spent on his car, and an engine that is seriously stressed on a 70-shot, a 15.96 was all she wrote.

A 4G Maxima auto will beat that bone stock.

Since you're only considering automatics, why are you looking at 5spd's anyways?

A stock 5G Accord 4-cyl auto runs 17's stock.
With full bolt-on's you'd be lucky to hit a 16.5.
With an H22A swap (on an auto) you'd run about 16.0 flat probably.
With I/H/E mods on an H22A swapped auto, you'd be lucky to hit 15.5.
You might manage to hit a 14 if you turbo/NOS, but then you'll probably blow up your tranny because Honda auto tranny's are more on the fragile side.

Or you can buy a 4G Maxima auto, add Intake and Y-pipe (less than $500 total), run a low/mid-15, and call it a day

CitrusSpeed

Sorry a lil late getting to this post, but one of my best friends drives a 94 accord ex, f22 sohc vtec. He has a short ram intake, and a catback and its a 5 speed. I have driven it a number of times, all times pretty hard. I must say its a joke for the most part, he gets beat my friend in his old 180k plus crx si all the time. I've heard from a guy on http://mahdavimotorsports.com/ that he had a somewhat built f22 but it cost waaay to much for what he got out of it. I guess it was pretty fast but major $$$$ The accord is a nice car, looks really good dropped and handles pretty well too, but if you want something even somewhat quick its not for you. I couldn't even imagine what a auto would be like in that car

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Sounds like you want the Accord. Just buy one!

darksands

Get the Honduh... you can go pretty fast from 5000rpm on. YOu know you want it. do the swap, do the turbo, see a maxima, "at least my car looks better" you say to yourself...

333matt333

you shouldn't. we need more people to waste in races.

JsL

iTrader: (5)

Infiniti/nissan's G20/primera quality: 2956lbs

Honda Accord quality: 3009lbs

How can a car so much bigger weigh only 43lbs more???

I've sat in a fully loaded V6 accord before. I drive an I30t and have sat in a friends leather 95 Max also. Get the Maxima, the Accord isn't that comfortable IMO.

P()()RB@Y

Well I almost bougt one today.I went to the nissan dealer to just look at some.I know dealers try to charge to much.Hell some dealers around here try to sell 92' Civics with 100,xxx miles for $10k

Anyways right when I step out of the car a salesman comes up to me and says lookingto buy a car.I say No just wanted to look at some Maximas.He said do you have a co signer Im not a teenager Im 21. (I look young I guess)

Anyways there was this 99' Silver SE Limited.They wanted $500./month

I guess Im just going to have to keep searching.If I come along a really good deal on a Accord I just might pic it up.Buts its going to have to be really nice.But Im leaning towards this other max right now for $12k

VAV6

Well you try to make a point and not only do you get misunderstood, you get called the "dumbest person on earth." I was not flaming the maxima, nor was i saying the accord and maxima don't compete directly, nor was i saying that the maxima would ever compete with the NSX. I was simply stating that if we are going to compare a car based strictly on the characteristics of it's engine (which is what steve's graphs do) the j30a1 and vq series are not even in the same class. It should be no mystery to anyone in here that a DOHC engine running on premium fuel will definitely have a broader powerband and more torque than an SOHC econo V6 like in my accord. Strictly engine vs. engine the vq30 and the c30 are more similar in design to each other and will therefore yield a more accurate picture as to whether honDUH "sucks" as so many people on here seem to think. Much like Steve i can't stand to see ignorance go unchecked. This would be like comparing the s2000's engine to that in a sentra strictly because they are four cylinders and declaring nissan sucks. In fact i was actually complementing the vq, but apparently since i'm so incredibly "dumb" i must have worded it wrong . Yes the ricer's have given us true honda enthusiasts a bad name, but the fact is that nissan could learn alot from honda when it comes to building high performance engines. Wheres that Nissan F1 car, or is there one? Both companies build great cars, so watch the honda hating, it only shows your lack of knowlege.

Oh and as for my "dumb" decision. I bought my 97 SE with 22k miles on it, by the time the odo rolled over to 40, i got rid of the damn thing. Theres no question (and i mean NO QUESTION) that it was faster than the accord, but i would take quality over speed any day. The mighty vq would constantly overheat for no apparent reason (plenty of coolant and the fans worked fine), once to the point where it melted my plug wires and various other hoses. The buttons on the dash would push through and break. Constant tie-rod replacement. A malfunctioning maintenance light. My leather would flake off in places. My ac compressor broke after three days of having the car. Oh, and nissan treated me like crap. One nissan was enough for me. I got my accord with 34k in january and have already put 20,000 miles on the car. Haven't spent a damn dime, not even on oil changes which honda threw in for free for the first year. Chances are i got a bad specimen of max, and it was a very fun car to drive, but i just wont sacrifice build quality for hp and tq. In fact, after putting about the same amount of money in mods into the accord that i did in repairs to the max, i'd say they're about equally fast anyway. Oh and sprint max, watch who you call dumb, i take particular offense to that as i have an intelligence quotient of 161. Maybe that's why i bought the accord...

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

VQs don't have spark plug wires...

VAV6

haha, damn, shouldn't have posted 2 things a the same time. My train of thought was off. 3 of my stock plugs siezed , nissan mechanic said it was because of excessive heat, and that he'd seen the problem on the z before but never on the maxima. well i just managed to sound like a complete idiot. Just recieved some nology wires for my AV6 so i guess it was a freudian slip Most of the hoses around the engine did melt or start to melt though on a frequent basis. Fan worked fine, plenty of coolant, not even the techs could figure out what the hell was happening.

97GLE

VAV6...

If you didn't like the treatment Nissan gave you go look at the treatment Acura is giving people over the auto trannies in the CL/TL. If that doesn't get you I can take you on my own personal tour of aholes and Acura/Honda dealers.

Also, acording to JD Power the Maxima and the Accord have the same Long Term Reliability

I'm sorry if you got a lemon, but a lot of people here have had their cars for a long time, and are completely happy with thier cars reliability. I just don't see reliability as a valid argument. I've done no work outside of maitenance on my car in ~70,000 miles and 5 years.

And i have a feeling sprint max will call you dumb whenever he wants. IQ doesn't make you educated

VAV6

Definitely man, one car certainly cannot be used to judge an entire company. I sell toyotas for a (temporary) living, and for all their reputation for reliability many of them break quite often. I just got tired of pouring money into a car and being treated like i was. Theres definitely no question that honda/acura can be aholes just as easily. My cousin who is 18 went to get his first new car, an acura rsx, and when he asked the salesman to testdrive it the man replied "why?" Now that's an ahole if i ever saw one. Like i said i'm not downing the max, just letting people know there's no reason to hate on honda. It seems you're right again man, IQ does not make you educated (kinda sounded like i was on my high horse with that one ) i just have a MAJOR thing about being called stupid. Sorry if i sounded snotty Sprint Max. Thanks 97gle, it's nice to be able to share valid info and have a civilized debate rather than a flame war.

97GLE

I get the feeling based on his posts that the person who started this thread doesn't really care what we're talking about. He wants rice, in which case the Accord will suit him well. Their aren't many rice parts for the Maxima.

Oh well I enjoy a nice constructive argument every once in a while.

densetsu

iTrader: (1)

i actually thought about that for like 5 minutes, then i scrolled down and to my amazement you were just BSing.

P()()RB@Y

Now why in the hell would make you say that?The only thing that was throwing me from the MAX was the suspension and the front bumper really.

I just dont want to get it and it feel like a SUV in the turns.(Solid rear axle right?)

Nismo87SE

SteVTEC is the official ownAr of this thread. My congrads hehe.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

It doesn't feel anywhere near like an SUV. The solid rear beam is one of the most sophisticated beams out there. An SUV has a beam axle, much heavier and clumsier due to driveline components inside it. The Maxima has just a beam. Nothing else. Less fattening In fact, on smooth race courses, it has been shown that the Maxima rear beam holds the rear end in better than a independent rear suspension, like the Honda has. There a lots of cars out there that have a abeam but we don't really see them, like the VW Passat, the 1st gen Integra and Honda CRX. All these cars are fun to drice, yet have a beam.

On bumpy pavement, the IRS is of course better, but then, when carving the canyons, or doing spirited driving, you would tend to do it on smooth road surfaces. No?

DW

97GLE

Because it's the impression you give . Body kits, fender, etc are far more prevelent for the Accord. Merely an opinion, don't get angry.

And it feels like an SUV because it has tall soft springs. But springs would probably be something you would change anyway. Also, a Rear Sway Bar and a Front Strut Tower Brace help.

The bumper on the 97+ without a license plate looks pretty nice i think. And with the stillen lip, it's just about right.

VAV6

Are we still talking about a 5th gen accord here with an H22 swap?
If so, GET THE MAXIMA!!! And this is from a honda loyalist.
The accord has the POTENTIAL to run 13's with an expensive swap and an expensive turbo kit. If you get a new maxima (vq35) you can hit 13's with a few hundred worth in bolt on's (any new maxer's back me up on this?) and you'll still have a warranty. Don't get a honda just to have that big H on the back. A new (relatively) maxima is infinitely better than a fifth gen accord especially when you consider that with the swap and turbo you could've probably got a max with a big o'l 000000 on the odo. Actually, here's a better idea, go test drive them! No amount of armchair research or prodding from us forum guys will compare to real world experience with both cars. And trust me if were still talking 5th gen accord you WILL choose the max.

nismo240sx

HONDA = History Of No Dramatic Acceleration

eric

$tillen$ux

I dont know about that. Any reason the maxima beam would be better performing off the lot is b/c it acts like a RSB by limiting independant movement of the trailing arms. On indep. susps, there is no thick rsb unless you install one, so the performance of Independant susps depends on the thickness of the sway bar, etc. You can change that. Plus, the accord has a double wishbone susp. which is far superior to the maxs b/c it stays perpendicular to the road at all times. The Max's beam does not b/c of nonindependant movement. And dont forget about road communication. The wishbone susp in the accord is far more communicative to the driver of minor road imperfections, more predictable, accurate, stable. Sure the max COMES WITH a stiffer susp, but modded to modded, the accord will still turn sharper than the max..even with the RSB.
For me, it comes down to value. The max gives you more for less $$$. More luxury, and sporty as well (STOCK). If you have a little more $$, the accord isnt that diff from the max performance wise auto to auto, unless you base it all on susp.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

so you got a POS Maxima.. doesn't justify buying an accord.. people abuse all makes.. just because your maxima was abused doesn't mean its a long standing history of sh!tty cars..

the dumb comment maybe a little extreme.. but i am rude.. and stuff comes out that way.. half of the **** you had problems with.. most of us have never seen.. do a search here for the key words with yoru problems.. and see how many people had them..

SteVTEC

yeah it sounds like the one he got used was seriously beat to hell by the previous owner. I've never heard of anybody having problems like that either.



There was no excuse for the dealer treatment, though

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm, I learned that coolant doesn't actually cool an engine, it's the water that does. Coolant acts as a lubricant, an antifreeze, and keeps the liquid from boiling.

On a side note, I ran against the latest AV6 coupe on my very first run at the track (very, very fun). I got a decent launch, but all of a sudden, the AV6 was just pulling like there was no tomorrrow. I thought to myself, ok, once I hit 3rd gear, I'll be catching up. I did pull maybe a couple of cars, but he was still far ahead (I'd say 3-4 cars). So I was like, huh??

Anyway, I talked to the guy afterwards (sorry, typical ricer boy, and he was giving me some dirty looks too) and I asked him what he had under the hood. His exact words were,

"Intake...exhuast...... ::cough cough:: ... NOS."

Sexima

just lay the smack down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get a Auto 4th Gen stock vs the new 6th gen accord stock to race for you.
I'm sure there are people around your place that will race.
so go ahead, see it for yourself. Maxima will show you the PROOF of torque. Not just talk. ^^ It's been done many times by me. I leave them 1-2 car lengths behind

Anachronism

VAV6 is right, the Maxima VQ completely outclasses the Honda J30. Unfourtunatly for Accord owners the J30 is the only choice they have . The need for premium is a pain, but when I consider the cost of car payment and insurance the extra couple of dollars is not that big of a deal. If we are talking about buying a used car than low resale value is a plus for the Maxima. Consumer reports rates the Maxima above average in reliability and most people on Maxima.org have had few problems, I haven't had a single problem in the year I have owned my Max. It sounds like you got a bad one. And don't worry about Sprint, he's harsh with everybody.

It seems that it comes down to - the Maxima has a far superior engine but he Accord edges out the Maxima in a few catagories. It all comes down to what is most important to the person buying the car.

SteVTEC, can I use that dyno chart on my car domain site?

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Can't argue with that. Definitely the Honda suspensions, straight from factory, are excellent. Just wish their motors could keep up. I'll still take the Max, though

DW

97GLE

Just thought I'd point out that the beam suspension has no choice but to stay perpidicular to the road at all times, think about it for a second. Beam suspensions will have the highest contact patch at all times because it stays flat with the road. UNLESS a tire bounces, thats why you don't like it on bumpy roads, a bump is directly transmited to both tires. Also, tire wear on a beam axle is very, very even.

I'm not saying it's better, but it's not the end of the world. I would even say that in autox and road racing it, the Maxima can be very competitive.

Dave B

The beam axle in the 95+ Maxima is quite hightech...for a beam. The beam has trailing arms, a HUGE rear sway bar that goes thru the middle of the beam, coil-over shocks, and a Watts linkage. The 95+ Maximas have put some seriously good skidpad and slalom numbers in the magazines. There are also plenty of guys in this org that are quite competitive on the road course in thier 95+ Maximas (ie they can handle).

My buddy has a 94 Del Sol with the B16, intake, header, catback, adjustable cam sprockets, coilovers, and GSR rims with Kumhos. I'm running H&R springs, adjustable struts, front strut tower brace, 16" K1s with Sumitomo HTR Z tires. We've toyed around many times on the twisting exit/entrance ramps and he can't leave me. While his car looks twitchy and darty, mine is smooth and graceful. And then we get the chance to go WOT, I leave him behind quite easily. He absolutely hates the fact that a sedan handles nearly as well as his Del Sol plus the sedan walks him badly in the straights.


Dave

97GLE

no RSB??

Also, I was looking at the beam and it seems to me the bar inside is the "beam" and the C shaped housing acts as an RSB since it's welded directly to the trailing arms. Can you explain it better?

Jepht20

iTrader: (10)

i can answer the original question and thread title with this simple answer. Honda=Lamo

VAV6

Yeah there's definitely no question i got a complete lemon. I can admit it, unfortunately nissan wouldn't. I wasn't questioning the reliability of max's as a whole though. No car company today really builds a "bad" car. I just thought that in buying a car with only 22k and a clean report i would get a car that would last. And the techs at nissan were just as confused as you guys. They said some of my problems were ones they had seen on the z cars before, but never on a max. Anachronism is right though, it all comes down to what the person buying the car really wants.

$tillen$ux

True, when it comes to the limits, the max beam aint bad at all. If handling/susp feel is your main thing, go Accord. If acceleration/power is your thing, go 5-speed max. I think that sums it up!

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

it really doesn't.. a maxima with the suspension mods out there can outhandle an Accord with coilovers, sway bars and strut bars..

Max Susp i am talking about?

FSTB
RSB
Coilovers
Sub Fame Connectors
Quaife

drive a max with all those mods and you will be surpised.. that thing handles

97GLE

News Flash, He already bought a Maxima

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

The person who started this thread said they wanted claims backed up by numbers. Here I am to bestow numbers upon thee

My absolutely stock 1996 Maxima 5spd, at 111,000 miles, my first time EVER with it at the drag strip, in the summer heat 85 deg and 85% humidity went 14.8 @ 92.6 mph. This is WITHOUT the lightweight wheels, CF hood, removed seats, etc that I will describe in a minute. I'm not the quickest either, VeeTec (Warren) went 14.7 in his stock 97 5spd. He's the quickest stock max I know of.

With a $350 y-pipe only, on a cool (65 degree) november day, I went 14.4 @ 96.5mph. Now, with a few more mods in the HEAT OF S
UMMER I'm still running 14.4s and 14.5s consistently. I've got about $1000 in engine mods now. I am only an ECU away from running 13s, even in the summer heat (its a long story, but basically I'm running out of RPM, I need a higher redline). This fall if I'm not running 13s consistently, I'm going to be very surprised and dismayed.

You were wondering about the weight of the car? My car when in track form (passenger seat, spare, jack removed, CF hood, and lightweight wheels, with 1/4 tank of gas) weighs 2760 lbs without me in it. That's pretty light, and only 100lbs off the weight of the car when it was stock.

On a road course, I defy an accord to handle as well as my Maxima does, they simply won't. (unless you talk about the Europe/ Japan only Accord Type R). Not to mention I've got probably 15% more power across the RPM range than an H22 swapped accord has.

I'm not sure if you are as into racing as I am, probably not, but on the track there's no comparison. The accord is blown out of the water by the Max.

As for reliability, my VQ and my Max have been great. I bought this car with 89K miles on it. I now have 135K on it, and most of those are hard pizza delivery miles on horrible michigan roads (I dont do that anymore though). The only problems I've had so far, is a bearing replacement in the transmission, which is significant ($600 repair) and an oil pressure sensor and reverse light sensor replacement, totalling about $50 together. The motor runs like a charm, and I hope it will continue to. Knock on wood of course.

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

FYI...

The Maxima does not use a Watts linkage. It uses a more compact design known as a Scott-Russell link.

Sport Compact Car did a column about it...here.

Dave B

I forgot to mention I have SFCs too. The 5/8" bar that goes thru the beam is actually welded to the trailing arms which are then mounted to the body. Think of the beam axle as a RSB. I use to have the Addco RSB, but I got rid of it when I got my Intrax because the rear drop was so low that I didn't need the RSB anymore. With the H&Rs, I sit 1" higher in the back, but I prefer the handling characteristics without the RSB. The RSB seemed to introduce more suspension bind and made the side-to-side rock of the beam far more pronounced in turns. The RSB also added about 17lbs to the rear beam which didn't help the ride any.

Dave