phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

First off, I want to preface this by saying that this is the first REAL mod that I have done to my max, except for newer rims and new tires.

I installed my "used" addco RBS this weekend. I don't like to work on my car where I live (not the greatest neighborhood- plus my uncle has ramps), so I went to my uncle's house and worked on running power/remote wire for the stereo and installing the addco that I had had in his garage for the last month and a half.

First off, I had never opened the box. I bought it used off of a guy on here, and I trusted him, and did not want to lose the peices. Therefore, I never inspected it.

If this was used, it was cared for with loving kindness. There was a TINY scuffmark, but all of the brackets and bolts looked perfect, and the bushings were brand new. SCORE!

It took about 15 minutes to install it, and things went perfectly. First, I slid the side brackets inside the brake lines without removing the 10MM bolts, then used the rectangular plates to hold the brackets in place while I anchored te center section. Doing this allowed me to "swing" the actual arms into their approximate location with one hand. I centered it the best I could, then placed the "U" part of the brackets around the bushings on the arms and attatched them to the side rails. I finger-tightened those bolts, then did the same with the two center brackets. I moved the busings and brackets to the edge of the straight section (as close to the bends as possible), and tighetned it all up. Piece of cake.

Now the fun part, right? The drive. Well, sort-of. Other than 16" SE rims and new tires, this is my ONLY handling mod. I noticed very little change. Perhaps I need to do a FSTB as well, but I really did not see much difference. If anything, I noticed that the max seems to have a greater threshhold prior to developing understear, but all that that seems to do is make the "window" between understeer and oversteer all the more narrow. It feels like constant adjustment (or at least monitoring) is needed in a hard curve to maintain the proper steering balance. I really feel like the car has a more "razor's edge" handling feel now- sharper handling, but with a lower margin for error. Maybe it is all in my head, but at the edge of the handling envelope, it feels like a slight over-compensation or a fraction of a turn too far would put the car in a spin. I know that I would not spin right away, but it feels like once the tires broke loose, momentum would throw me all out of whack. Does anyone else get this feeling?

Here is a question for you driving gurus, or physics guys: If an RSB "levels" out the car by reducing body roll, wouldn't it also place additional stress on the outer edge of the outer tire in a curve? If the body does not "roll," the energy has to be transferred somewhere, and the logical result would be for the outer edge of the outer tire to bear the brunt of the cornering force, since body roll is no longer available to dissipate that momentium-driven energy. Wouldn't this cause accellerated wear on the outer edge of the rear tires? Just a thought...

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

Does anyone have any theeories on the Question about tire wear and dissipation of force w/ the RSB installed?

Or any experiences with the handling changes that I noted?

Ghost face Max

I would invest in a front strut bar becuase with just having the RSB that's only half of the equation. I don't have a rear sway bar yet but I do have the front strut bar and after installing it I notice a big change in handling right away.... So I would purchase a FSB and see if then you'll feel a difference....

DaddyMac

don't worry about extra tire wear, it will so minimal with everyday driving.

I only noticed less body roll on the "S" curves.

on lane changes, etc. I didn't notice any change.

97GLES

iTrader: (5)

you should of gotten the fsb first. then when you put the rsb you would of felt the rear tighter.

you could adjust the rsb by moving the side clamps back or forward.

DaddyMac

I got the FSTB second. I notice a alight improvement, and the steering got a bit tighter, but it could be the placeabo effect

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

Well, I think that a FSTB is high on my list,. but there are maintainence concersn to be addressed first, such as plugs ($40), Tranny flush & fill (~$100), and coolant flush and fill(~$60). After that, I will be going with a FSTB.

I know that even I always say a FSTB is a FSTB, but I like the Stillen copy-cat on eBay, even if the only difference between it (for $45) and a generic one (for $20) is looks.

Hopefully, I will at least have the Hybrid portion of my CAI in this weekend, followed next week some time by the lower "CA" portion of the pipe.

Ghost face Max

Let us know the result and findings when you do purchase and install your FSB.

NotNew!!NewSN!!

honestly ur absolutely right. I went over this on a report for my physics class. The tighter ur suspension gets the more you will hear ur tires squeel depending on ur tires. It comes to getting a nice wheel and tire combo. Instead of understeer you are going to get ur whole car sliding. But if you have nice tires thats 25% stress on all 4 opposed to 100% on the outer ones.

Ghost face Max

very, very, interesting!!!!!

Anachronism

As NotNew!!NewSN!! said, I belive by keeping the car more level all four tires are sharing the load more equally. When the car rolls or leans more cornering load is transfered to the outside tires.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

So where is the energy transferred to? the force of the "lean" or "roll" is applied from the center of gravity, and that, being above the level of the road, would not allow a 4x25% distribution of the load. My thinking it that by absorbing the energy of the corner, body roll actually dissipates the cornering force more equally. The new revision of my theory is that INCREASED force on the outside edge of the outsde tire increases grip at that corner, however, thus making turing easier in the long run.

Anachronism

If that were the case then the softer the suspention the better and the higher the center of gravity the better. Race cars would be two feet off the ground and have very soft suspensions. But that is not the case. The energy is transfered to the tires with any car, when the car remains level it is just transfered more evenly then if the body rolls.

Of course the outside tires will see more load then the inside tires but reducing body roll will spread the load more evenly. Putting more of the load on two tires would just cause them to loose traction sooner. There has been some discussion about a RSB not being necessary with stiffer aftermarket springs but as far as I know everbody thinks they help with the stock suspension. I don't know how to explain it well but perhaps this link will do better http://www.howstuffworks.com/question432.htm

Tifosi

iTrader: (1)

That is vey correct. When you put RSB on, in actuality you are tightening the rear of the car. Everytime you tighten an end of a car, that end loose traction. In this case with the RSB (or tighter, harder suspension), you are really losing rear traction, thus gain traction to the front = less understeer. With horrible tire compound, your rear end will slide hardcore. But with the right (decent quality tires), RSB are putting load on 2 rear wheels instead of just the outside tire. If a car is setup with stiff sway bar and stiff suspension, and the tires are crappy, you can easily blister the tires because the rear end will slide all over the place. So RSB really has to work with the right amt of stiffness in your suspension and the right tire compound. By all means, softest compound tires isn't always the best because during hard corners, the tires grip too much that it doesn't allow it to slide enough, so the tires will grip hardcore and the load on the tires will snap because it has nowhere to go and your rear would step right out. Of course cornering speed has a lot to do with camber as well, but let's not go there now so to confuse everyone some more.

I tried to explain this as simple to understand as possible, you should hear how we talk in the pits!

I always recommend a very good book for people who wants to know what you do will affect what in the handling characteristics...
"How to make your car handle", it has a red cover and a Porsche 935 (I believe) on the cover as well. Should find it easily in your local bookstore.

Sorry for the long post.

Tifosi

cuongvynguyen

What a sway bar does is take the compression energy of the outside tire when you are cornering and applies it to the opposite tire. What this does is flatten out the car uppon cornering and takes the load of the outside tire and applies some of that energy to the inside tire..... Does this improve your overall cornering speed and stability?...... sometimes yes and sometimes no, but always "it depends on..."

Dev

iTrader: (5)

i just put on my rsb as well...2 days ago
i also have a fstb (its useless)
seriously it won't improve anything...its just there
but about the rsb, if you are losing too much traction from the rear end, put your tire pressure down a bit in the rear tires (like 3 psi or so) and it should have a little more give before sliding.

i also didn't notice a world of a difference from the rsb