ny96max

My car for some reason cranks very slowly 1st thing in the morning. Especially now that its been dippin down into the 20's at night. I was thinking it could be my battery, its an Optima Yellow Top(deep cycle thats about 2yrs old). I know its NOT the starter cause i just changed it a few months back over the summer. Could it be anything else besides my battery?? im gonna test my battery with a DMM before i even go to crank it and see where amp level is at. Maybe its just time for a new battery

the car also stalls out everytime when i dont give it gas. Only happens in the morning after the car has sat over night.

any input is appreciated!

Ant

96shogunmax

iTrader: (9)

My car does the same, and I just think its normal

Conrad283

iTrader: (2)

i third that, it's probably from being really cold

Cumalot

iTrader: (8)

Ant, I doubt it's the battery. I have a yellow top Optima too and I have it for almost 2 years, no problems starting whatsoever. Must be the colder weather up there. Down here, of course I don't have to worry about the cold weather.

96shogunmax

iTrader: (9)

Yellow top here too........gotta be the cold weather

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

I had the same problem for 2 straight winters. Then I cleaned my throttle body and have no problem starting the car now without stepping on the gas pedal... Also make sure your fuel filter is not old. This is now my second winter with no problems starting.

ZuMBLe

iTrader: (1)

The your throttle body. Don't ask, just do it. And be happy after. Throttlebody cleaner is like 3 dollars. Spend 30 minutes. You will be a happy camper.

funnylittlman

iTrader: (1)

I live in VA, and have had some cold weather.. Mine's a 99 and teh same thing happens once in awhile when it's REAL cold. Nothign to worry about!

Ant, do you park outside?

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

It gets real old when it starts to happen every morning for the whole winter. It got REALLY annoying if I let the car sit for 3 days and then tried to start it. A couple of times after coming back from out-of-town trips, it almost seemed like the car wouldn't start!

I think that especially for older 4th gens, a good TB cleaning is a must!

ny96max

i guess ill clean my throttle body again, even though it was just done a few months ago. And my fuel filter i changed about 2months ago. So hopefully the throttle body cleanin will do the trick.

Funnylittlman: i do park outside unfortunatly :/

96shogunmax

iTrader: (9)

I cleaned mine when I had the blower put on. It is not hard to crank in the mornings anymore. Thats wierd We are just now having our cold mornings and it doesnt do it like it did last year.

flynlr

iTrader: (2)

I have a year old diehard gold in my 95 max gxe that has 31k miles original fuel filter never cleaned throttle body and sleeps outside everynight here in salt lake city..never have any probs starting in the mornings temp in the teens or 20's I turn key to on pos fer about 3 secs then crank always fires off within 2 secs.....
maybe im lucky....

NyCzBuBBa

iTrader: (10)

mine does it too. Doubt it's the battery like everyone says it's the cold weather

packetattack

iTrader: (1)

I have never gotten any slow cranks on my 99SE. Parked outside, no garage, no cover, on the street for 5 days at a time without being started, since I use the train to work and don't usually go out during the week.

Never a problem starting my car. I have an Optima Yellow Top as well. Even my remote starter turns the engine right over.

qboc2

I have 165k miles on my 95GLE and it starts like a new car...
with the help of some slick 50.

packetattack

iTrader: (1)

I remember the lawsuits with the Slick 50 product.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/9707/slick.htm

Keith P

Cold battery? Old battery? Good probabilty either way. Any one with an Optima battery have the same problem?

Cold fluids? Harder for the above battery to push against. Gas is denser when cold. What weight of oil are you using? Synthetic is probably the better choice.

How long does it take to get cold? The faster the temp drop at night, the longer the engine has to contract and tighten up the journals.

Humidity high or low? Environmental issues can contribute.

qboc2

I feel cheated!!! I've been using that **** 50 for the past 5 years!

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

That's what I'm thinking. It's gotta be the motor oil. What are you guys using? Dino 10W30? The dino stuff tends to get like vaseline in the cold. I always use Synth 10W30 and the car starts like a champ in frigid weather.

DW

packetattack

iTrader: (1)

Its ok, I'd rather educate someone than blame them for using something. Now at least you know you probably weren't getting all the benefits that Slick 50 promised you.

packetattack

iTrader: (1)

Synthetic oil was all I ever used since 2,000 miles (first oil change), car has 25,900 miles now and never ever a problem starting in cold weather. Now, granted, NYC doesn't get as cold as other places, but some mornings have been around 20 degrees, not to mention my car sits around for five days at a time without being started, since I use the subway for commuting.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

OK. Then it must be that the all the oil completely drained back to the pan from all that time just sitting there, plus the cold weather making all your parts absolutely frigid. Hopefully your oil filter has a really good anti-drainback valve.

DW

packetattack

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure what your post is implying. Yes the engine parts are frigid, and yes most of the oil, after 4-5 days has drained back into the pan, however usually a thin film of oil is left on the mechanical components, which usually doesn't go away in five days. As for the oil filter, its a genuine Nissan oil filter, the only one I'll ever use for my car.

Like I said, zero starting problems in the cold weather and my car sits there a lot longer that most people on this list, who drive their cars everyday/commuting etc. I use Mobil One 5W-30 Synthetic oil and have an Optima Yellow Top battery.

Nick97SE

iTrader: (14)

My car hesitates sometimes when it's cold. I suggest that when starting it, don't turn the key all the way immediately. Just turn it to the on position until it stops beeping, and then start it. I've been doing this for some time now, and the starts seem a lot better, especially in the cold weather. I guess it gives the engine a chance to send some fuel to wherever it has to go.

-Nick

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Just trying to cover all bases. No implications. Nick97Se has a good suggestion; turning the key to the run position and holding it there for a few before you start. What's happening during that pause is that the feul pump is pressurizing the feul lines from the gas tank to the feul injectors. So, on a cold start, where you need alot of feul b/c the car fires up running rich, the more feul you can deliver, the better.

Of course this won't cure the slow start, but it may shorten the time that it takes the car to actually fire up.

DW

ny96max

Ok, well its been about a month and my car still takes a good 30sec to turn over in the morning, not to mention i have to hold the gas to keep her from stallin out. Throttle body cleaned, new starter installed 1/13/03 and STILL the same problmes. My Optima reads 12.5 volts in the morning, so i know its not the battery.

any other suggestions before i must face a "mechanic" ??

I do rememmber njmaxseltdsayin somthing about a valve that gets stuck which effects the car from stallin and or holding idle

please help!

Ant

funmax

when was the last time you replace the fuel filter? if already over 30000 miles, replace it.

ny96max

i just did the thing under 5k miles ago.

Ant

Dave B

Crank-sensor?

Personally, it sounds like your battery. Optima batteries are not optimal for winter use. They're deep cycle batteries. You'd be much better off with just a regular automotive battery.

My 7-year old OEM battery finally went out on me today. For the past few months the weather had gotten a lot colder and my car was slow to start. I regularly checked my battery and it showed between 12.4-12.6 volts when the car wasn't on. However two nights ago, I did a full system test and once the car was switched to "START", the voltage dropped to 11.2. It needs to be around 11.6-11.7 to get an optimal start. I bought a Die Hard battery and the car starts INSTANTLY now.


Dave

karguy

What weight oil do you have in the engine? 5W-30 is recommended. Synthetic oils really help cold weather starts too! Have you cleaned battery terminals lately, you can buy a tool to clean battery terminals for a few $$. Made a big difference in my 97. I am in the process of cleaning every ground wire I can find on the car using a dremel tool. The ground wire under the battery bottom holder is connected to the chasis with a rather small screw. The circle clip from the ground wire was attached on a painted surface so the only path for current flow was through the circle clip and screw. I used a polishing stone to remove the finish coat and primer so the circle clip is now on bare metal, major improvement. Also pulled starter and cleaned all moving metal parts (Armature, planetary gears, solenode, sliding gear and bearings) with electrical cleaner spray. Lubricated all moving metal parts with AMSOIL High Temp Synthetic Grease. It seems grease dries out and causes starter to turn slower and to not engage sometimes. Just something to think about when trying to figure out what is wrong. You might check your battery voltage prior to starting you car on a cold morning. Voltage should be a minmum of 12 volts DC, 12.6 volts DC is normal. You can also check the battery voltage when the car is running, it should be 13.6 to 13.8 if alternator is working okay. Hope this helps!

ny96max

here goes:

- battery terminals are 100% clean, belive me they are chrome dipped and do not show one bit of corrosion on them nor does any other part of my motor.

- tested battery today with my DMM after sitting for a good 4hrs in the cold and it read 12.46 volts, which is normal, and almost 14volts while running. That rules out my Optima and or Alternator.

I like the idea you had about cleaning all ground points in the car. I may do this this weekend to see what happenes. Im gonna beef up my stock ground with an additional 0/1 gauge ground wire to the stock point, along with grinding and cleaning out all the main ground points under the hood.

- oil weight, i belive im using a 5w30? last i checked, brand: Penzoil synthetic oil

- fuel filter has about 5k on it now.

Ant

karguy

Sounds like you are eliminating pssible causes logically. Keep us posted on whether cleaning and improving grounds help. If that doesn't help you are down to starter, it isn't hard to get out - 2 bolts (12 and 17mm). Worst part is removing air box and wire connecters. Starter is easy to take apart, clean and lubricate. What grease that was left in mine was dried out and very thick! Cleansd it up with spray electrical cleaner and re lubed with AMSOIL high temp synthetic grease. Not hard at all! Keep us posted as I believe a large number of forum members will be interested in what you find.
Hope this helps!

ny96max

i changed my starter out yesturday afternoon. Natrually the car died in my shop while i was programming my alarm system. So $100 later and about 30min i had the new one(rebuilt) in. One thing i noticed was the main connection to the starter, its a zero gauge wire with a terminal at the end of it. Mine was totally dirty and covered in junk, so i took a metal grinder and grinded it down to raw metal again on both sides to give me the best connection possible to the starter solinoid. And that didnt do anything more for me

- and again i checked my battery at 9:30am after sitting since 8:30pm the night before and still read 12.4 volts. Optima Yellow Top

- im curious to see what happens to the battery current when the car is being cranked. I think ill have my bro crank it while i test to see whats goin on. Ill post my results later.

- guess that ground project will be my next step in this long anoyying process

Ant

JeffesonM

iTrader: (5)

yeah give that a shot. I remember reading in all those Hyper Ground threads that many reported faster starts after putting in the extra wires, so maybe that will do the trick.

Dave B

FYI-

12.60 = 100% charge

12.40 = 75% of the charge

<12.40 = a discharged battery


I could have sworn Yellow Top Optimas are not ideal for cold weather. Search the net and you'll see that the Red Top Optimas are what you need to run in cold weather climates. The guys in the south don't have problems with their Yellow Tops because it never dips below the 30s for extended periods of time. Don't you guys see a trend? Those with Yellow Tops experience consistent hard starting in cold weather. It's been in the low 30s and 20s and my car starts INSTANTLY with a new Die Hard battery.

Also, be VERY careful with that "hyper" ground crap. A few members have smoked major relays in their Maximas trying to install these setups.



Dave

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

A faulty ECTS can also give you hard starts. Seems like you've addressed just about everything.

BTW, do you get gas from a reputable station? A friend once had hard starts for a few weeks last winter, then was recommened "dry gas" or something like that to eliminate water in the fuel system. He switched gas stations and doesn't have the problem anymore.

ny96max

ECTS?? please define

Ant

ny96max

thanks for that info Dave

and the only ground im gonna play with is at the battery.

Ant

Rogo02SE

Did anyone try to use some dry gas to treat their fuel??
I did it for about 3 tanks and the rough starts stopped.
Next think on my list is to clean the throttle body, but is so cold out there that I'll wait till spring.

88MaximaSE

I used dry gas and it helps a little. I have a hard *** time when i start my car in the cold too. I gotta hold the key in the ignition position and stomp on the gas and hold it or it will stall. It was like this all last winter and went away in spring. I've just gotten used to it. I noticed when i hold it in the on postion for a little while it reduces the start time. I've tried everything except differnt oil. I'm going to put mobil one synthedic 10w in and see what happenes. Also, check out ur engine coolant sensor connection. maybe ur car thinks its warm when it starts. I've read in a used car book that 4th gen maximas are bad at starting. stupid nissan.