Help me with my Route to Power
01-10-2001, 04:35 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 359
- I had a blast at a track day I just attended, but I'm looking for major, major power now. After I finish with my suspension, I plan on running a Supercharger and possibly cams.
*CAMS*
- Does anyone make them? If so, can they be used in conjunction with a S/C? How much power do they bump the car up to, and what happens in the lower revs?
- I have seen the dyno chart for the Stillen S/C, but does the car still lose power in the high RPM's? The huge power loss on my naturally aspirated car after 5000 is frustrating, to say the least, and I felt as if I was hurting my engine by bogging it up there.
*SuperCharger*
- I like the whole idea of the supercharger. However,
1. Does anyone know about possible long-term or short-term damage to the engine? Any kind of boost will shorten the lifespan, but by how much?
2. Can the system be killed at will through a killswitch or blowoff valve?
3. Since there is no chip to adjust the fuel/air mixture, does that little device Stillen supplies work well?
4. Most importantly, what should I do or NOT do on my way to boost. I know that Stillen says not to put a Y-pipe on an automatic supercharged car, but can I do it with my manual car?
5. How much will this run me with and without installation?
6. What type of Supercharger do they use (Roots/Centrifugal) and what boost is it set at?
7. Is the boost adjustable?
Thanks for your help. ;-)
*CAMS*
- Does anyone make them? If so, can they be used in conjunction with a S/C? How much power do they bump the car up to, and what happens in the lower revs?
- I have seen the dyno chart for the Stillen S/C, but does the car still lose power in the high RPM's? The huge power loss on my naturally aspirated car after 5000 is frustrating, to say the least, and I felt as if I was hurting my engine by bogging it up there.
*SuperCharger*
- I like the whole idea of the supercharger. However,
1. Does anyone know about possible long-term or short-term damage to the engine? Any kind of boost will shorten the lifespan, but by how much?
2. Can the system be killed at will through a killswitch or blowoff valve?
3. Since there is no chip to adjust the fuel/air mixture, does that little device Stillen supplies work well?
4. Most importantly, what should I do or NOT do on my way to boost. I know that Stillen says not to put a Y-pipe on an automatic supercharged car, but can I do it with my manual car?
5. How much will this run me with and without installation?
6. What type of Supercharger do they use (Roots/Centrifugal) and what boost is it set at?
7. Is the boost adjustable?
Thanks for your help. ;-)
01-10-2001, 09:25 PM
#2
Mods.
*CAMS*
- Does anyone make them? If so, can they be used in conjunction with a S/C? How much power do they bump the car up to, and what happens in the lower revs?
- I have seen the dyno chart for the Stillen S/C, but does the car still lose power in the high RPM's? The huge power loss on my naturally aspirated car after 5000 is frustrating, to say the least, and I felt as if I was hurting my engine by bogging it up there.
I don't know how much they cost but imagine that it will be a very expensive modification without as much hp gain as the SC. I could be wrong though.
********************
Depending on what kind of grind cam you get will decide what type of power you will make and where. Some make them in the lower and midrange, some do it all in mid and high end. They are all different but could be worthwhile. I've never heard of anyone doing them, but imagine it's an expensive modification.
Huge power loss at higher RPM's could be caused from the following:
Lack of ability of your car to breath in more air (CAI)
Lack of ability of your car to exhale that added air (y-pipe, RT-cat, cat-back exhaust)
It's not hurting your engine revving it that far. Just make sure that you have all your fluids (engine oil and transmission fluid) checked/changed on regular periods and you'll be fine. Look how hard I have driven mine with the SC and it still runs great with 94,000 miles on the clock.
********************
*SuperCharger*
- I like the whole idea of the supercharger. However,
1. Does anyone know about possible long-term or short-term damage to the engine? Any kind of boost will shorten the lifespan, but by how much?
2. Can the system be killed at will through a killswitch or blowoff valve?
3. Since there is no chip to adjust the fuel/air mixture, does that little device Stillen supplies work well?
4. Most importantly, what should I do or NOT do on my way to boost. I know that Stillen says not to put a Y-pipe on an automatic supercharged car, but can I do it with my manual car?
5. How much will this run me with and without installation?
6. What type of Supercharger do they use (Roots/Centrifugal) and what boost is it set at?
7. Is the boost adjustable?
********************
Long term effect- Engine failure IF you don't change your oil at the expected periods (I do mine at every 2800 miles but I don't think the oil could take 5,000 mile intrevals). I do this to make sure that my oil is as fresh as possible when I run it. My SC has got to be heating up the oil that it is being fed with and I don't want to chance anything happening. I would rather have piece of mind in changing my oil sooner rather then ride on the oil longer. If you don't get a tranny cooler (5-speed and AT) you might blow your tranny. Same holds true if you don't get your valve body modified for your AT. More smiles everytime you drive your Maxima.
Short term effect- Less cash to spend on other things. As long as you do the above listed there will be no damage to your engine in the short/long term.
I put my SC on my AT with about 85,000 miles and now have 94,000 miles. High mileage might be a concern for you but this is my daily driver and I do drive it hard but I don't abuse it. Nothing bad has happened through it all and I am very satisfied with the SC on my AT Maxima.
The SC can't be killed with a switch. It is not that kind of SC kit (although Hennessy Motorsports does make that kind for a Dodge Viper- although it does cost big $$$). The BOV simply serves as a way for boost to escape into the engine compartment when you let off from Wide Open Throttle (WOT) instead of traveling back into the SC and damaging the internals. Do you need a BOV for an AT? I would say yes, b/c even though the shifts are quickened with the VB upgrade you will still have the chance that you will be accelerating and have to let off therefore creating boost to be blocked by your throttle body's butterfly plate much like it would when you shift a 5 speed.
Everything you need to run the SC kit safely is included in the kit from Stillen.
The only thing that you can't do is run more than 10psi on your blower by adding a smaller pulley to it. This will definatley blow your engine. Do what I mentioned above (as well as a better clutch and pressure plate I assume) and you should be just fine .
The Vortech kit that Stillen offers is a centrifical supercharger which means that this SC takes power to make power. Boost comes on around 3,000 RPM and raises as RPM's raise. You can make boost come on 1,000 RPM sooner with an underdrive pulley and gain about 10-15hp. The SC kit costs around $3400 uninstalled and produces about 6-6.5psi stock. You can adjust boost, but only by replacing the pulley on the SC with a smaller one befoer installation of the SC kit. If you put on your SC kit and want to change the pulley you will have to take off the SC head unit from your car, change the pulley, and reinstall it. You can safely raise boost up to about 8-8.5psi (maybe 9.5psi at very max but this might be really pressing your luck) with a underdrive pulley but this would be only after you do the above modifications. This is not reccommended by Stillen but has been proven by some of the enthusiasts on the board that this can be done. As always do this at your own risk. I know that I did. (well not the pulley anyway...)
********************
I hope that helps
[Edited by jgadlage on 01-10-2001 at 11:42 PM]
- Does anyone make them? If so, can they be used in conjunction with a S/C? How much power do they bump the car up to, and what happens in the lower revs?
- I have seen the dyno chart for the Stillen S/C, but does the car still lose power in the high RPM's? The huge power loss on my naturally aspirated car after 5000 is frustrating, to say the least, and I felt as if I was hurting my engine by bogging it up there.
I don't know how much they cost but imagine that it will be a very expensive modification without as much hp gain as the SC. I could be wrong though.
********************
Depending on what kind of grind cam you get will decide what type of power you will make and where. Some make them in the lower and midrange, some do it all in mid and high end. They are all different but could be worthwhile. I've never heard of anyone doing them, but imagine it's an expensive modification.
Huge power loss at higher RPM's could be caused from the following:
Lack of ability of your car to breath in more air (CAI)
Lack of ability of your car to exhale that added air (y-pipe, RT-cat, cat-back exhaust)
It's not hurting your engine revving it that far. Just make sure that you have all your fluids (engine oil and transmission fluid) checked/changed on regular periods and you'll be fine. Look how hard I have driven mine with the SC and it still runs great with 94,000 miles on the clock.
********************
*SuperCharger*
- I like the whole idea of the supercharger. However,
1. Does anyone know about possible long-term or short-term damage to the engine? Any kind of boost will shorten the lifespan, but by how much?
2. Can the system be killed at will through a killswitch or blowoff valve?
3. Since there is no chip to adjust the fuel/air mixture, does that little device Stillen supplies work well?
4. Most importantly, what should I do or NOT do on my way to boost. I know that Stillen says not to put a Y-pipe on an automatic supercharged car, but can I do it with my manual car?
5. How much will this run me with and without installation?
6. What type of Supercharger do they use (Roots/Centrifugal) and what boost is it set at?
7. Is the boost adjustable?
********************
Long term effect- Engine failure IF you don't change your oil at the expected periods (I do mine at every 2800 miles but I don't think the oil could take 5,000 mile intrevals). I do this to make sure that my oil is as fresh as possible when I run it. My SC has got to be heating up the oil that it is being fed with and I don't want to chance anything happening. I would rather have piece of mind in changing my oil sooner rather then ride on the oil longer. If you don't get a tranny cooler (5-speed and AT) you might blow your tranny. Same holds true if you don't get your valve body modified for your AT. More smiles everytime you drive your Maxima.
Short term effect- Less cash to spend on other things. As long as you do the above listed there will be no damage to your engine in the short/long term.
I put my SC on my AT with about 85,000 miles and now have 94,000 miles. High mileage might be a concern for you but this is my daily driver and I do drive it hard but I don't abuse it. Nothing bad has happened through it all and I am very satisfied with the SC on my AT Maxima.
The SC can't be killed with a switch. It is not that kind of SC kit (although Hennessy Motorsports does make that kind for a Dodge Viper- although it does cost big $$$). The BOV simply serves as a way for boost to escape into the engine compartment when you let off from Wide Open Throttle (WOT) instead of traveling back into the SC and damaging the internals. Do you need a BOV for an AT? I would say yes, b/c even though the shifts are quickened with the VB upgrade you will still have the chance that you will be accelerating and have to let off therefore creating boost to be blocked by your throttle body's butterfly plate much like it would when you shift a 5 speed.
Everything you need to run the SC kit safely is included in the kit from Stillen.
The only thing that you can't do is run more than 10psi on your blower by adding a smaller pulley to it. This will definatley blow your engine. Do what I mentioned above (as well as a better clutch and pressure plate I assume) and you should be just fine .
The Vortech kit that Stillen offers is a centrifical supercharger which means that this SC takes power to make power. Boost comes on around 3,000 RPM and raises as RPM's raise. You can make boost come on 1,000 RPM sooner with an underdrive pulley and gain about 10-15hp. The SC kit costs around $3400 uninstalled and produces about 6-6.5psi stock. You can adjust boost, but only by replacing the pulley on the SC with a smaller one befoer installation of the SC kit. If you put on your SC kit and want to change the pulley you will have to take off the SC head unit from your car, change the pulley, and reinstall it. You can safely raise boost up to about 8-8.5psi (maybe 9.5psi at very max but this might be really pressing your luck) with a underdrive pulley but this would be only after you do the above modifications. This is not reccommended by Stillen but has been proven by some of the enthusiasts on the board that this can be done. As always do this at your own risk. I know that I did. (well not the pulley anyway...)
********************
I hope that helps
[Edited by jgadlage on 01-10-2001 at 11:42 PM]
01-12-2001, 09:13 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 359
Re: would you like some wine with that cheese
Originally posted by UntouchableMX-5
Just keep crying you'll still have to flag me by on the straights. He He.
Just keep crying you'll still have to flag me by on the straights. He He.
- Mr. Gadlage, thank you so much for the detailed description of the S/C and the cams. The power loss is merely a result of how the engine comes stock. If you can get a chance to check out a dyno, you'll see that the torque plummets so rapidly that even hp dies out after a while. Thanks again!
- Could you tell me a bit more about the tranny cooler for a manual?
01-13-2001, 07:51 AM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
You can actually go above 10 psi for the max. it will test your tranny a little, however it can be done. I know someone who is pushing that with a 3.25 pulley. It is his daily driver. I am getting it done in two weeks.
Cams are almost impossible to do unless you have plenty of money and dyno's. regrinds....i wouldnt really go that route.
It is essential if you have an auto to get a tranny cooler from a local pep boys or whatever. also get the vb recalibrated.
Cams are almost impossible to do unless you have plenty of money and dyno's. regrinds....i wouldnt really go that route.
It is essential if you have an auto to get a tranny cooler from a local pep boys or whatever. also get the vb recalibrated.
01-13-2001, 08:20 PM
#7
Cams
My experience with cams comes largely from motorcycle applications, but I'd expect the same standards hold true for the VQ.
Basically a larger cam will work on the "Steal from Peter to Pay Paul" principle, which means you will move your power from one range to another. Granted, you may give up 10hp at 3000 for another 25 at 6000, but there's always a compromise. A stock cammed car may get away from you in a roll.
If they were available, I'd expect them to be very expensive to buy and install.
For these reasons, I'd suggest looking into other mods first, like the S/C, exhaust, etc. Cams are tricky business.
Basically a larger cam will work on the "Steal from Peter to Pay Paul" principle, which means you will move your power from one range to another. Granted, you may give up 10hp at 3000 for another 25 at 6000, but there's always a compromise. A stock cammed car may get away from you in a roll.
If they were available, I'd expect them to be very expensive to buy and install.
For these reasons, I'd suggest looking into other mods first, like the S/C, exhaust, etc. Cams are tricky business.
01-14-2001, 02:32 PM
#9
Re: Re: would you like some wine with that cheese
Could you tell me a bit more about the tranny cooler for a manual?
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