Ok i was talking to another Max owner at the dealer today and he said his 99 Se auto fed spec would beat my 99 Se 5 speed Cali spec hands down both stock lets just say i laughed in his face.i know the Cali specs are slightly slower but this guy was out of his mind to think he could beat me especially stock vs stock with his car being a auto.What do you guys think?

 

if you can drive stick, you will win.

 

I can definately drive stick even though i have driven 5.0 stangs my whole life(I did have a 94 Se 5 speed)their is no way his car should beat mine!

 

If I remember correctly, the difference between a Fed spec and a Cali spec is simply that the Cali spec has a 3rd O2 sesnor behind the CAT. All that O2 does is check to make sure the CAT is working properly. It doesn't take part in adjusting fuel mappings etc, as the 2 front O2 sensors do. I doubt that this small difference will make a huge power difference between Cali and Fed spec cars.

DW

 

I don't know how a fed-spec would be faster if the 2 cars were identical.

 

even if you can't drive stick you will win.
this guy has no chance...race this guy and show him how stupid he is.

 

80% of stick owners cannot drive a stick. i spent YEARS learning a stick on my 86 fiero SE 4spd, and 87 Fiero GT 5spd. and was constantly running other drivers with more mods than i that would pull off the line, yet lose ground on every shift... i have raced other max's in my 96GLE and toasted 5spds, usually because of poor drivers. i hate autos because they are boring, but a GOOD CONDITION auto tranny can shift faster, and pick its shift points better, than 90% of the drivers on this board. what kind of transmissions to professional drag racers use? autos, 2spd powerglide for example. people just cannot shift fast enough to keep up with this. anyone who drives a stick should spend the money and go through skip barber, or read some books or something, learn rpm matching, clutchless shifting, doubleclutching on downshifts to match clutch/flywheel velocities (not upshifts, FAF was a joke)

 

i'd say that 99% of stick maxima's would murder auto's.
i have been driving stick for about 8 months now...and an auto 4th gen or 5th gen has no chance of beating me. yes even 2k2's.
talking about drag racers...those auto's are at a point where there is so much power, there is no point of stick.
but with weak street cars...such as the maxima, there is a big difference in gearing and power, which puts manual far ahead of auto.
let the time slips do the talking...

 

anyone ever raced 5spd vs. well drive auto (brake torquing) in an 1/8 mile at all? yeah.... most manual drivers (around here at least) launch too high and spin, or launch too low and bod, whereas an auto owner can launch at 2grand, and only have to worry about feathering the gas- 99% of manual cars might be faster, but far from 99% of manual DRIVERS are faster- an auto is not a point and shoot deal, there is skill involved in driving one. my personal preference would be a manual, but i have other cars for that, manuals that will roast a maxima... i like my max how it is, great on long trips and such...

 

5-spds are faster because with an auto, you lose a lot of hp through the drivetrain, not to mention the weight difference.

 

 

utimaxima, do you know how much, or are you regurgitating what someone else told you? the maxima auto is fairly efficent, losing (i believe) 12.5% of its power... so, 12.5% of 190 is i think 23-24 horsepower? but what rpm can an auto successfully launch at and stick the launch? 2000? look at a dyno graph, and think about what an stick would do w/ a clutch dump at 2000 - 2500 rpm...? smoke the tires? OR bog the engine into a hole you have to climb out of? i am not claiming that numerically autos are faster, i am claiming that most people cannot drive a stick, but try to apply themselves to the "boy racer" stereotype, people need to be educated when they speak, not emit ignorance tempered by the opinions of others...

 

uti, sorry if post sounded mean, bit my lip and a bit o' anger came out in my response

 

a manual 4th gen on average, runs about 15.0 in the 1/4 mile
an auto 4th gen on average, runs about 15.7
both being stock

so basically, the driver of the manual has that great of an error margin to screw up and still win the race.
i have seen enough timeslips, and its rare to see an equally modded auto with a faster time than manual.
when i went to the track with other maxima's i got 15.0, and an equally modded auto got 15.8
our track is in bad shape, which partly accounts for those times, but im not the greatest driver, and i have no problem pulling a few cars on auto 4th gens.

 

in an 1/8 mile? how are these autos launching? i will bet that your whole lead is in the first 40-60 feet, when automax's have to crawl out from 900 rpm if launched improperly. an automax w/ shift kit and 15" wheels would be a terror in the 1/8 mile, max's arent meant for the 1/4... freeway runs are where its at. BTW, dont auto max's top higher than 5spds? anyone know the gear ratios?

 

No, I'm regurgitating what I have learned in school. I don't know the exact amount of drivetrain loss for Maxima's as I haven't researched it, I was speaking in general terms. Nevermind the dyno graph, look at the timeslip. If I launch MY auto at 2500 it bogs down, and I get a lot of wheel hop. I have personally gotten better times around 2000. 2 Maxima's, same mods, one auto, one manual, equally experienced drivers, who do you think will win? I'm not disagreeing that a lot of people can't drive stick, and I can assure you I'm too old to be considered a "boy racer". Thanks for the unwarranted insults though, it speaks volumes about the quality of your character.

 

On the freeway my auto is a dog. If I'm cruising at 70, and try to go from there, a geo metro would walk on me.

 

the boyracer comment was not at you directly, i never broke to 2 paragraphs - anyways, how is it that 5spd's are "faster" its typically because you can launch at a higher rpm, same idea as brake torquing- everyone bags on the autos, trying to claim that it is night and day difference, but its not. when driver properly, the performance on both should be close (well driven, the advantage goes to the manual, judicious clutch slipping, while destructive, IS a fast way to go)

 

the autos DO have a flat spot from about 75- 90, after that, you SHOULD start getting up a head of steam - around 90 is where my auto usually starts to pull on 5speeds- i think the 5speed max's just aren't geared appropriately - 6spd with closer ratios would be nice- a paddle shifted CLUTCHED manual would be ideal, would make faster shifting.. even through all this, i still say my preference is the manual, but only because the auto bores me... (nothing to do while driving) but its not the horrible piece of junk people make it out to be

 

Don't manuals get through the rpm's much quicker? I've not driven one yet, only been beat by them. I could do my taxes in the time it takes for my car to downshift. I don't mean to bash the auto, I like my car. I'm just bitter I didn't get a 5-spd when I got my max. I know exactly what you mean about the auto being boring. This is the first one I've ever had.

 

thats cuz the 5spd needs to shift at around 90 into the next gear. the only chance an auto has against any decently driven 5spd, is when the auto is at the top of a gear at whatever speed, 40mph, 70mph, and 90mph, would be about the speeds an auto would have any chance of winning. 40 and 70 being the better chances of the 3, 3rd gear on auto goes from 80-120 or so, a 5spd has 2 gears to cover that same range of speed.

 

Specifically the 99 Cali Specs have two added pre-cats immediately off of the headers, and 4 02 sensors in total. 99 fed specs do not have the added pre-cats if I'm not mistaken. The added restrictions in the exhaust on the 99 cali spec would theoretically make it a bit less powerful than any other 4th Gen maxima, but the 5spd manual still gives it PLENTY of margin over any automatic 4th Gen.

 

you will never notice the difference..

my cousin's 99 cali spec 5spd bone stock can hang with my other cousin's 97 5spd with a stillen y pipe granted the 97 weighs a bit more with the aftermarket suspension and stereo equipment.. but there is still little difference in the cali and fed spec.. don't believe the hype

 

I think you've forgotten a significant number of advantages of manual tranny's. It's more than just the launch


1) The launch (already stated). Can be much more aggressive with a manual.

2) Weight. Manual tranny's are a good 60lb lighter than automatic transmissions.

3) Efficiency. Manuals put down about 10-15 whp more on the dyno due to being smaller/lighter (see #2) and overall more efficient (no torque converter, direct mechanical coupling is more efficient than indirect fluid coupling)

4) Gearing. The manual Maxima's by far have much more aggressive gearing than the automatics do and were specifically optimized for good 0-60 and 1/4 mile performance. The auto was geared for relaxed cruising and better fuel economy, not performance. Best stock 4G manual time: 14.7. Best stock 4G auto time: 15.6.



I think your point about most drivers not being able to drive a manual well are grossly exaggerated also. There have been members here at Maxima.org that have taken their cars to the track just weeks after getting them, not having driven stick before in their lives, much less at a track, yet have still put down some DAMN GOOD times. There is a 4G owner who got a 15.0 @ 91 or something after only having his car for 3 weeks and never drove stick before.


It just so happens that the Maxima manuals are very easy cars to drive fast. You can just dump the clutch from 2000rpm if you don't want to be too hard on things and still run pretty good times. It's nothing like a Honda VTEC where the only way to run good times is to launch from redline and try to keep it there without a) doing a burnout and b) not hooking up too early and bogging. That requires considerably more skill than a torque beast like these cars are.

 

oobydooby -
my PERSONAL observation is that most manual tranny drivers in general can't launch- most don't know how to downshift properly (the only time a double clutch is beneficial). BTW, i don't know what the aamco guys did when they rebuilt my tranny, but it shifts HARD at 6400 RPM EVERY time.. verrrry niiiice... occasionally getting a bit of a chirp...
QUESTION with supercharging, how is manual VS 5spd?
i know w/ 3.0ltr engine and a TURBO an auto would probably be preferable, larger engines with turbos tend to accentuate turbo lag by losing boost between shifts, plus you can build PSI while stopped with an auto... the buick grand national is a GOOD example of this

 

very well said.
2 examples of amature drivers would be myself (about 5 months experience) and a friend (about 3 weeks driving experience).
we both went to the track after that much experience...i pulled a 15.0 and he pulled a 14.9.

fierostetz...you said before auto's have a drivetrain loss of 12.5%.
its more like 15% for manual and 25% for auto.
and about the 1/8th mile...it is closer, however the 5spd will have the advantage still. then the auto almost dies in 3rd gear for the rest of the 1/4 mile.

 

Yup yup, the faster you go the greater the difference becomes. 1st gear difference between stick and auto, small, 2nd gear, bigger, 3rd gear, huge 4th gear, fuhgetaboutit, 5th, oh that's right, autos dont have that

DW

 

Maybe you and your buddy were the guys I was thinking of / had read about before. Great times!

well, it really depends on what kind of dyno you're on. One thing is clear - a manual will have less overall loss than an automatic.

On a passive rolling load dynamometer like the common Dynojets, some of the power "lost" is due to energy required to accelerate the engine itself, along with the tranny, driveshafts, wheels, etc. On active load biased dynos (dynapack for example) where you can vary the load and hold the RPM's steady, no energy is being lost in the drivetrain due to accelerating the drivetrain, so the "loss" that you see is lower. Perhaps 12.5% as fiero said.

Because of the different ways of dynoing cars, this is why you can only compare dynos runs between dynamometers of the same type.

 

Like a couple of the fellas have said, if you can drive stick flawlessly, you will win. Don't believe the hype about Cali vs. Fed spec because when my Cali spec auto was bone stock was able to run 15.62 in the 1/4. I roasted some of the 5 speed Max's I lined up with at the track because the drivers weren't that great.

 

deezo said it perfectly- a well driven auto won't beat a well driven stick, but most manuals are not well driven. a few times in my mazda 626, automatic four banger, i kept racing a trans am formula from light to light, and kept winning (got to the next light first) because the overenthusiastic driver kept getting wheelspin on account of cold tires and lack of experience (i am guessing about the cold tires, but the exhaust on his car was still steaming, meaning it was probably just started after a period of rest) and i think the 1987 mazda 626 auto is the fastest 0-2 mph car in the universe